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I revoked my consent for my medical records and my son's medical records to be released to anyone other than myself. The provider released them to a third party who in turn released them in error to someone else. They cannot fix the mistake now, they will not apologize in writing... what if any recourse do I have on this medical facility?
Revoking your consent basically means that you let the medical records be released to a third party. Now, if that third party released them to another party in error, that is where it gets tricky. IF that fourth party did nothing with the records and the records were shredded, then there is nothing wrong. However, if that fourth party has used the records in any way that is unacceptable, they may have violated HIPAA.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Accidents happen. Records get released to the wrong party sometimes. It is what is done with the records by the receiving party that is the determining factor.
As far as HIPAA, you do realize that you don't get any monetary compensation correct? When HIPAA is violated, the violating party either gets warned or fined.
You could sue them, but what is the point? They would get a minor fine - if at all. It doesn't seem as though anyone was doing anything wrong... it was just a mistake.
You won't get anything out of it except an apology unless you can prove damages. And it will likely be an expensive apology.
This is not about money, my privacy was violated. The party the records were released in error to then sent copies to my ex husband.
How is revoking my consent letting them be released? That does not make sense.
The definition of revoking is reversal of an act. If you had a consent in place, that prohibits the release of records. If you revoked this consent (depending on the actual wording of the consent), you reversed this action.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Now... on another side... if your consent was to release the records, and you revoked this consent, then that is an entirely different game here.
We need more info here obviously.
Did you originally have a consent that allowed release of the records, and then revoked it?
The other question is what do you hope to accomplish?
I had originally signed consent allowing release of records. I then in writing and verbally revoked that consent and specifically requested that these records not be released to anyone other than myself. About 3 weeks later that is exactly what did happen, and in turn the next party in error sent copies to my ex-husband. They cannot fix what has already occurred, this I understand. I would appreciate an apology and perhaps my records so that they cannot do this again. I would like to also ensure that they do not do this to anyone else. They should take a patient's privacy seriously and respect it. In addition, during this time I was unable to receive copies of the records for myself. They stated a few times they were not ready etc or complete... but they certainly had them together to forward to other parties.
This may seem petty, but I value my privacy and this could potentially be very damaging to me in a custody situation.
Thank you for clearing that up.
Now, is it possible that your records were subpoenaed?
No they were not subpoenaed.
Doesn't sound petty to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
AHHH, here we get to the crux of the matter. By this third party releasing the record to your ex, it may affect the outcome of the custody battle. That's your REAL concern isn't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
HIPAA prohibits giving any information about medical diagnoses and treatment to anyone except as necessary for treatment. You have not told us who your son's physician gave the records to or why, but its certainly possible there were valid reasons to do so. That third party was then under HIPAA constraints to protect that information.
Now here's were the second problem comes into play. The father may have had every right to request those records. If the current legal status is Joint Legal custody, then he had every right to those records.
Finally, HIPAA provides for sanctions against someone violating HIPAA rules. These sanctions can include anything from a warning to loss of license. But the victim of the violation may get nothing but an apology.
It is an issue that my sons records were released to another party. His records being released to his father are not at issue, he has every right as a father to see them. The issue is consent for both mine and my sons records was revoked and this was disregarded. They were released without my consent to a second party and then furthermore "my" medical records and personal information was released to my ex husband. The issue at hand is not the outcome of a custody case but the fact that my own personal records and private information were released to two separate parties, one being my ex husband.
I take offense to the fact that you believe that the results of any custody dispute is the REAL concern. My REAL concern is that privacy laws are in place for a reason or so I thought, and mine was violated. I would be very appreciated of this provider at the very least providing an apology along with an assurance that this will not happen to myself or anyone else in the future.
It might not be YOUR real concern but it is A real concern - real as in measurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
You can go ahead an pay a lawyer to sue for HIPAA violations, and I'm sure they will issue you a heartfelt and utterly meaningless apology and they will pay a minor fine to the court and in the end, nothing will change except you spent money to get a few hollow words.
Nothing is going to change the past.
Do you have reason to believe that they intentionally violated your privacy? If it was an accident, it was an accident.
I have no idea why they did it. I have received nothing but resilliance from this office and no response to my request for my own records. It is wonderful though that they are so freely sharing them with so many other parties with no recourse. From the responses I have received this afternoon it would seem that there is little to no point to the HIPPA laws or any recourse of facilities that violate a persons private medical records.
There is recourse. Its just not payable or owed to you. Should you report the HIPAA violation? Absolutely. Will you ever hear anything about it again? You might get a letter someday from someone with a photo copier and a rubber stamp.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Even if they were to be found in violation, they still wouldn't owe YOU anything. HIPAA protects you, it does not empower you.
Sorry... but that's the harsh reality.
Think of HIPAA violation like a speeding ticket. They will get a fine and it might deter them from doing the same thing in the future. It might not.
So, as Steve said, you file a complaint with HIPAA. They do an investigation and anywhere from several months to a couple of years you get a notice of the resuts of the investigation.
Again, your medical provider has a right to pass records to a 3rd party if its involved in providing care. For example, I'm providing care and I need a radiologist to review x-rays. I can consult one without asking your consent. But that person would be bound by HIPAA to not discuss the case without anyone but me or the patient.
So without knowing who the third party was and why the records were given to them, its impossible for us to know whether HIPAA was violated or not.
For you to sue anyone here you would have to prove you were damaged in some way. And I don't see any evidence of that.
As for taking offense that's your right. But the anger that comes through from your posts seems to me a lot more than a possible violation of your privacy. I say possible because you haven't stated who these other parties are that got the records or why they got them or what they did with them (other than passing them to your ex). It does not sound like your information was posted publicly someplace.
So the bottom line is that you can file a HIPAA complaint. And you can consult an attorney who will, in all probability, tell you it would be a waste of money to pursue legal action.
Why is there always an assumption in this country that it is about money and sueing people. Is it so far fetched to think that someone would have an expectation of rules being followed and an apology being expected. As for you suggesting my posts are angry, I think that my feelings are being confused as I am simply frustrated with a system that apparently does not work. You put your trust in medicdal providers assumming some degree of privacy and it is not respected.
Our society is a litigious one. Most people are out to sue for money. You, apparently, are the minority. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Because our society has become so litiguous, that the vast majority of such complaints is based on an anticipation of a montary award.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
No its not, but that question was answered early on. You file a complaint with HIPAA and wait for them to take action.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Mistakes happen. But if your husband had a right to records, then I don't see where you were harmed. You don't know why the records were transferred (though you are entitled to). There could be very innocent and valid reasons for the transfer of the records. Nor do I see any real harm to you. So your anger seems way out of proportion here.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
One of the things that arouses my suspicion is your omission of who this third party was and how your ex got the records. Even though I have mentioned the importance a couple of times.
I'm not trying to insult you. I'm trying to help you deal with this incident by giving you all the legal ramifications. But we can only work with the info you provide.
How can you justify someone receiving a record, ex husband or not, when it has nothing to do with your continued medical care. The name of the second party that received the records is irrelevant.
Would you like your medical records and private information out there for all to see.. after all you are suggesting that such a situation is quite harmless.
I think I read all of the thread, I never have read "WHO" the files were released to. If it was an insurance company for purpose of billing, that can be done regardless, And medical records can be shared with another medical professoiinal without your specific permission..
Also the records may be given ( records of a child) to children services if there is issues of possible abuse. And they can be given to the police if possible abuse issues.
If your ex's insurance is paying the bills for the treatment, the ex may have ability to get copy of those records.
Thanks for your input but I think I will research this further somewhere else as you do not appear to be to familiar with HIPPA laws and violations of such. Thank you.
It might help if you try reading our responses with some modicum of objectivity. After all, you came here to ask for help figuring that we may have knowledge about this situation that you (clearly) don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
I can't justify your husband receiving the records, because I don't know the exact circumstances where he received them. But that also means I can't not justify it either. I don't need the name of the third party, but I do need to know the nature of their business and why they got the receords. Without that I can't judge whether they are irrelevant or not. Since you don't seem to understand the law here, you aren't in the best position to judge that irrelevancy.
No I would not like my personal info out there for all to see. Its actually happened to me. I've had personal info posted on a public board like this. But that's not what happened to you according to what you have said. Your physician handed your records to some person who then passed it on to your ex-husband. That is hardly "out there for all to see".Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
You really need to step back and view your situation more ojectively. Your question is about your recourse in this situation. And those recourse are limited and have already been detailed.
Excuse me? Please cite anything we have told you that is incorrect! What I see going on here is very typical. You come here not looking for answers but an affirmation of what you THINK should be happening. Then, when you get the facts, you don't like them so you strike back at the people providing you with information.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Bootom line, is, if you feel your HIPAA rights have been violated (and I have seen no conclusive evidence of that having happened), you file a complaint with the HIPAA oversite agency (HHS-http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/index.html). You can file your complaint through that site as well as read up on your rights.
If you feel your privacy has been violated, then you consult with an attorney to see if you have a cause of action against the violators. However, its my considered opinion, based on what you have told us, that you don't have enough of a case. I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but tht's the best answer I can give you. Nor do I think you will get any other answer anywhere else.
"We are familiar with HIPAA laws. And it is HIPPA by the way....Not HIPPA."?? Could J_9 explain this comment??
I'll be glad to explain that.
It is HIPAA, you have been typing HIPPA. I am very familiar with HIPAA laws as I must abide by them on a daily basis at work. I have recently had an in-service, and have been certified, regarding HIPAA laws.
I work in a rather large medical facility. I know what happens when we violate HIPAA, I know what happens when medical records are inadvertently sent to someone who was not supposed to receive them in the first place.
**EDIT** The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) Privacy Rule
See here... http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/
Thank you for explaing my typo
You see, we are not here to bash or batter anyone. We ARE here to help. We do know what we are talking about or we would not be answering.
I hope the link I provided proves helpful to you.
A typo (or typographical error) occurs when someone mistakenly types something when they actually meant to type something else. But every reference you made to HIPAA was typed in as HIPPA. This indicates that you were not aware of the correct acronym. So that it wasn't a typo, but a mistake of knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Everyone is entitled to make mistakes, but since the purpose of this site is to provide people with correct information, J_9 corrected your mistake. If you don't know the correct name, how can you look it up? And if you can't look it up, how can you know you aren't getting correct info.
So I must again ask that you point out anything we have posted that is incorrect. I, for one, do not like to give out incorrect info. So if I do, I want to know about it.
Some of the information yes has been helpful, but some of the responses have been quite hostile for some reason. I don't usually use sites like this and had thought it may be a good place to gain information.
My ex-husband overdosed my son who has Cerebral Palsy on his medication and almost took his life. He was investigated by Child Services. In the course of this investigation the doctors office inadvertently sent information from my medical record with reports to Child Services and then my ex-husband. I did not want my records released. I have MS which my ex is aware of as I was diagnosed 6 years ago. However I was recently dx with Lymphoma, something I did not want him to find out, one of the many reasons being my son had not been told yet. This is a conversation he shoud be having with me when appropriate... so in answer to some of the ruder statements, YES I was very much damaged/hurt by the mistake of this provider and consequently so was my son.
You may think that everyone is out to sue, but that is not always the case, some of us simply want to protect our privacy and our children.
Then I hope you don't mind me pointing out your uncalled for rudeness. I have appreciate the advice from the medical experts, I have found the information from computer experts about medical issues quite argumentative, I did not think that was the point of such a forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Rudeness is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. I'm sorry if you found me rude, but while I admit I may have been brusque I don't feel I was rude. If you still think I was, please point out specifics.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
However, Just because I'm listed as a Computer Expert doesn't mean I don't have knowledge of other areas. That's why I had my title changed to include "Renaissance Man". For example, you don't know if I'm a computer expert for a medical practitioner which would mean I would have specialized knowledge of HIPAA. The fact is every piece of advice I have giving you has been spot on correct.
You didn't need to post as much info as you did. The key is that the info was given to Child Services and then passed on to your ex.
If the info was requested by Child Services then that may have had the force of law and overrided your request to not give out records. However, if the request was for only your child's records and they included yours, then there was a HIPAA violation.
Finally, while I'm sure this caused you some personal problems, its not the same as spreading your info all over the place as you intimated. While you may have sorry great inconvenience, you were not damaged in a legal sense. Which limits your recourse.
By the way, I just reviewed all my answers in this thread. And no where do I think I was rude. The closest I came was in response to your post where you insulted us by saying we didn't know enough about HIPAA. Clearly you are not being objective here. You are angry and upset, justifiably so. But that anger is causing you to lose your objectivity and see insult where there is none, and strike out against people trying to help you.
Apparently I need to clarify a few points. I am not striking out at anyone or angry as you have suggested, I merely wanted information as to what recourse there could/should be in a case where someone's privacy has been violated. HIPAA policies are in place for a reason and if they are not followed and respected then there is no point of providers constantly handing out information regarding them and requesting your signature that you have been informed of your rights if they are not going to respect what is written themselves. I think that it is fair to expect at minimum a written apology in a situation like this. We are make mistakes, professionally and personally and the correct thing to do in these situation is to acknowledge mistakes, apologize and not make the same mistake again. Other than an apology would it be unreasonable to expect this provider to further educate their staff on HIPAA policies and laws and to ensure that this mistake does not happen again to the same person or to anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
In addition, I feel that it was prudent at this point for me to give more information as you and many others suggested that I was omitting information by not disclosing all of the parties that the information was released to. I personally think it is irrelevant who they were released to, the simple fact is that they were released without my consent to other parties, and there is now the risk that they will be shared further. There were no subpoenas involved and records were not released relating to continuation of care or for insurance claims. I understand and respect the fact that my son's father has every right to our child's medical records, what I disagree with is that he has any right to my medical records. Even if I was covered under his insurance, which I am not, that does not legally give him the right to my medical records.
My suggestion of the lack of knowledge of HIPAA was not at you it was at the person's response above this that suggested that in some way due to insurance or other circumstances my ex-husband had a right to my medical and personal information. However, my comment regarding rudeness was absolutely directed at you. As a self professed "Renaissance Man" I would have thought you would have had more manners, decorum and respect for others. It is very ignorant of you to immediately make the assumption that I was asking for advice in the hope of receiving some type of dollar compensatory award for my privacy having been violated. Is it so far fetched to believe that someone is "simple" enough to expect/want an apology and an assurance that the same thing does not happen again to themselves or to anyone else. I was raised in Europe where we are not raised to "sue" for peoples mistakes, and where people are quick to make money in this manner. In some countries an apology is worth so much more than any dollar amount. Money is not going to give me back my privacy, it is not going to stop my ex-husband from sharing this information with others, it is not going to protect my son from finding out that his mother may be terminally ill, it is not going to stop this provider or its employees from being careless with peoples private information, an apology and acknowledgment of their mistake and sharing the steps they are going to do to prevent this in the future though... that would be worth a lot.
Finally, as for you stating that "its not the same as spreading your info all over the place as you intimated" niether you or I have any idea what this information will be used for or where it will be posted etc. and does it matter if it is spread to one person or to a hundred when it should not have been sent to zero.
Firstly, you need to sit back and take a deep breath. No one was being rude to you. You are touchy right now, and I can understand that. We are just here trying to help you, but you are lashing out at the other members on the forum.
Unfortunately, this is your opinion, but not fact. It IS relevant who they were given out to. If they were given to another medical provider, for instance, this would not be a violation because there would usually be implied consent. As an example... if you were sent to a specialist for a condition, the medical provider must forward your records to this specialist. Therefore, once you accepted treatment by the specialist, you have given implied consent for release of your medical records.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
So, for us to give you adequate advice, we need to know who the parties are that received your records.
First, a few of us have dealt with the issue of the relevance of who your medical provider gave your info to. The fact is that it was VERY relevant. And we have pointed out, with several examples WHY it was relevant so I'm not going to go over it again. From what you have posted you don't know why the records were turned over. So you don't know if they were requested or not. That HIPAA allows the sharing of medical info when its appropriate. The purpose of HIPAA is to prevent your info being given to someone who has neither the need or right to the information. So whether your consent was given or not, it may not have been a violation of HIPAA.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntled36
Second, it was prudent and necessary for you to provide the info about who the records were given to, But it was unnecessary to provide info about your and/or your son's medical condition. However, having done so, it does make your reactions here more understandable.
What I think you have been missing here is that we agree with you up to a point. We agree that if your info was given to someone outside your provider's office without justification, then a violation exists and you are certainly entitled to an apology and the office should be sanctioned. Where we disagree is that I don't think you have established, beyond doubt, that that happened. But, if you feel that is what happened, then, by all means, file a complaint. I've given you the URL of the web site where you can file a complaint. I also agree that your husband was not entitled to your records. But the question here is how he got them. The fault may lie with your provider or it may lie with Children's Services. The problem here is we do not know and I'm not sure you have enough evidence to place that blame.
A lot of this has been covered in previous posts under this thread so this is kind of a recap. I think we have more than adequately explained the HIPAA rules to you. So the ball is in your court to file a complaint or not.
I have been answering questions on boards like this for a very long time. I can say with certainty that the vast number of times when people believe they have been wronged and ask for the law to support their being wronged its with an eye to a lawsuit and a cash settlement. So no, I was not being ignorant in assuming that was the case here. In fact, I'm not sure I even said anything about that. If I did it was simply playing the percentages, not ignorance. As to my manners, as Henry Higgins said the issue is not whether I have bad manners or good manners but whether I treat people the same. And I believe I do that.
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