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-   -   Obtaining custody from mother (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=226770)

  • Jun 23, 2008, 09:57 AM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u
    Any audio recordings are illegal unless you get the others consent.
    I have seen people take answering machine tapes to the TV courts
    (I guess answering machine tapes are okay)
    the Judges all say they will listen to the tape but they can not base the weight of their decision on the tape.
    I believe it is a federal law, but some states allow it under certain conditions I think.
    "Can We Tape?"

    click on the state-by-state and then click Maryland.

    Video taping is okay in some states but with guidelines.


    I just found the legal statue for MD wiretapping and surveillance act. It is illegal to audio record another party without their consent in MD.

    It seems you can videotape a person without their consent if its in a public place, but the audio part would not be admissible. This is the way I understand the wording. Ill aske my next question in the appropriate forum. Thank you
  • Jun 23, 2008, 10:12 AM
    N0help4u
    That is basically what the link I gave you said.
  • Jun 23, 2008, 01:25 PM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u
    Any audio recordings are illegal unless you get the others consent.
    I have seen people take answering machine tapes to the TV courts
    (I guess answering machine tapes are okay)
    the Judges all say they will listen to the tape but they can not base the weight of their decision on the tape.
    I believe it is a federal law, but some states allow it under certain conditions I think.
    "Can We Tape?"

    click on the state-by-state and then click Maryland.

    Video taping is okay in some states but with guidelines.

    Thanks. I just need to know what I can and can't do regarding recording and videotaping exchanges and conversations in my child custody/support case. I wonder how admissible it would be in family court
  • Jun 23, 2008, 01:54 PM
    N0help4u
    Child support
    I think that would be a whole 'nother thing depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
    Are you trying to prove the mother unfit? Are there Child service case workers involved?
  • Jun 23, 2008, 02:56 PM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    In MD im told it is illegal to record a phone conseration without the other party's consent. Can someone tell me where I can find the actuall law (in COMAR) saying it is illegal in MD to record a phone conversation without the other party's consent?

    Also, I would like to know if those laws only apply to phone recordings as opposed to person to person recordings. And I would like to know if it applies to video recrodings as well. Thanks

    In Maryland it's the two party rule - both PARTIES to the conversation have to be aware and consent. You, for example, can't record someone else and a third party.

    I would check with Family Court and see what the Court's policy is.

    Small Claims usually allows them - Family Court, I don't know.

    And if the other party denies giving permission and/or being taped, then you have to go into voice recognition which is quite expensive.
  • Jun 23, 2008, 02:59 PM
    N0help4u
    I was thinking if child services are involved they can request to tape interactions with kids themselves at his request and all parties consent but not sure what he is getting at.
  • Jun 23, 2008, 03:19 PM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by N0help4u
    I was thinking if child services are involved they can request to tape interactions with kids themselves at his request and all parties consent but not sure what he is getting at.


    Agreed - and I've seen so many of these "do it yourself" recordings with one person asking very leading, transparent questions and the other party mumbling something or other. I've never seen a Perry Mason situation where one party asks questions and the other party suddenly shouts, "Yes. I did it. I'm guilty."

    Never.
  • Jul 7, 2008, 11:50 AM
    msir
    Back child support
    The custody complaint was filed in May 07 and I started paying support in feb 08. That means 9 months of back support may be ordered. I am figint for full custody with the hope of getting at least shared. The temp CO calculated CS wth me having a min wage salary but now I have a higher paying full time job.

    1) how is back child support applied in the final order.
    2) Are the #overnights from holidays and vacations included when calculating CS?


    3)Just because the judge gave mom temp custody, does that mean thatn she will most likely get full custody even if I fight it. I ask because I was having a conversation with a friend and he said, the judge set the status quo when he gave mom temp custody with me having every other weekend.

    4)I initially told the court at the first hearing I had no other child support. But I do. Will I need to bring proof of the ordred child support amount in order to get it factored into child support worksheet
  • Jul 7, 2008, 12:58 PM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    the custody complaint was filed in May 07 and I started paying support in feb 08. That means 9 months of back support may be ordered. I am figint for full custody with the hope of getting at least shared. The temp CO calculated CS wth me having a min wage salary but now I have a higher paying full time job.

    1) how is back child support applied in the final order.
    2) Are the #overnights from holidays and vacations included when calculating CS?


    3)Just because the judge gave mom temp custody, does that mean thatn she will most likely get full custody even if i fight it. I ask because i was having a convo with a friend and he said, the judge set the status quo when he gave mom temp custody with me having every other weekend.

    4)I initially told the court at the first hearing i had no other child support. But I do. Will I need to bring proof of the ordred child support amount in order to get it factored into child support worksheet


    They can go back and review the figures and assess at full salary.

    The overnights are not percentaged out; I have seen LENGTHY vacations percentaged out - but the custodial parent still has rent and electric and so forth for when the child returns so possibly not -

    Unless you now prove the mother is unfit or come in with some dynamite evidence I would say custody stays where it is on a permanent basis. The fact that you did pay support for a number of months and appear to still be in arrears does not sound good on your side.

    If you lied to the Court you will have a problem - I don't know how you are going to "whoops, mistake" when it's money that feeds/clothes your child. The Court is not going to be very forgiving and now everything you say is open to question

    A lot of this depends on the State.
  • Jul 7, 2008, 01:53 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    They can go back and review the figures and assess at full salary.

    The overnights are not percentaged out; I have seen LENGTHY vacations percentaged out - but the custodial parent still has rent and electric and so forth for when the child returns so possibly not -

    Unless you now prove the mother is unfit or come in with some dynamite evidence I would say custody stays where it is on a permanent basis. The fact that you did pay support for a number of months and appear to still be in arrears does not sound good on your side.

    If you lied to the Court you will have a problem - I don't know how you are going to "whoops, mistake" when it's money that feeds/clothes your child. The Court is not going to be very forgiving and now everything you say is open to question

    A lot of this depends on the State.

    Depends on the stae as to the question of overnights. In Cali overnights count so long as its consistent. i.e. laid out in the parenting plan. So if NCP gets 4 nights a month there is one set amount and if NCP gets 6 nights a month there is a different amount. Depending on past experience with the child and how close you live to the child's reguler activities ( like school or babysitter ) can also make a difference when asking for more time. If the child is very young ( like a baby ) then try to get it graduated for more time later. So when child is 3 or 4 your time with the child is higher then until that time. Some plans offer a 50/50 being that the child spends majority of time with mom ( liberal visitation with dad ) and later the situation flips to most time with dad and mom liberal visitation. There are many ways to ask and get what you want but be sure you don't lie stretch or get yourself into something you can't deal with.
  • Jul 7, 2008, 02:43 PM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by califdadof3
    Depends on the stae as to the question of overnights. In Cali overnights count so long as its consistent. i.e. layed out in the parenting plan. So if NCP gets 4 nights a month there is one set amount and if NCP gets 6 nights a month there is a different amount. Depending on past experience with the child and how close you live to the childs reguler activities ( like school or babysitter ) can also make a difference when asking for more time. If the child is very young ( like a baby ) then try to get it graduated for more time later. So when child is 3 or 4 your time with the child is higher then until that time. Some plans offer a 50/50 being that the child spends majority of time with mom ( liberal visitation with dad ) and later the situation flips to most time with dad and mom liberal visitation. there are many ways to ask and get what you want but be sure you dont lie stretch or get yourself into something you can't deal with.


    Even if I got EOW and one overnight a week (mom says I canhave one afternnoon per week, but no overnight) , it would not be enough overnights to count as shared custody, so I am wondering if I can factor in the summer vacation I am asking for (4 weeks). I was told that some courts will only count the standard visitation, whichwould not inlude summer vacation and holidays
  • Jul 7, 2008, 03:30 PM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    Even if I got EOW and one overnight a week (mom says I canhave one afternnoon per week, but no overnight) , it would not be enough overnights to count as shared custody, so I am wondering if I can factor in the summer vacation I am asking for (4 weeks). I was told that some courts will only count the standard visitation, whichwould not inlude summer vacation and holidays


    Again - everyone is trying to help but it varies by State. What State?
  • Jul 7, 2008, 03:50 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    Even if I got EOW and one overnight a week (mom says I canhave one afternnoon per week, but no overnight) , it would not be enough overnights to count as shared custody, so I am wondering if I can factor in the summer vacation I am asking for (4 weeks). I was told that some courts will only count the standard visitation, whichwould not inlude summer vacation and holidays


    I agree with Judy on this one. Its very hard to offer you anything solid when we don't know what state it is. The courts are kind of like Baskin Robbins. You never know what flavor till you dig in.

    We may be talking about nothing depending on where you live so please let us know.
  • Jul 7, 2008, 03:52 PM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by califdadof3
    I agree with Judy on this one. Its very hard to offer you anything solid when we dont know what state it is. The courts are kinda like Baskin Robbins. You never know what flavor till you dig in.

    We may be talking about nothing depending on where you live so please let us know.

    MD
  • Jul 7, 2008, 04:00 PM
    cdad
    OK here is a page for you to go through. It speaks directly about your issues.

    THE CHILD SUPPORT GUIDELINES SECTION of MD LAW

    Also how old is the child / children ?
  • Jul 7, 2008, 04:08 PM
    msir
    I know that site. I am asking if the holiday and summer vacation overnights will be included with the number of overnights, because I was told that those were not considered as part of the overnights that could be used to determine "number of overnights in custody"
  • Jul 7, 2008, 04:28 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    i know that site. I am asking if the holiday and summer vacation overnights will be included with the number of overnights, because I was told that those were not considered as part of the overnights that could be used to determine "number of overnights in custody"


    They should count so long as they are consistent. If you have every other then it's a wash. But if you had every ( certain holiday ) then it should count. Also when going for time in the summer be sure to leave time for her to have summer vacation with the child also. At least 1 week. So if child gets 6 weeks off for summer then don't ask for all 6. Also try to remember that if you live close to the child's reguler activities like school etc then you can extend weekends etc. Like instead of returning the child on Sunday from your weekend you're the one responsible for taking the child to school on Monday. Or thursdays through Sundays every other week. It can add up quick in your favor. Also you may want to make a plea for mediation if its not automatic in your case for custody. If she truly appears to attempt to keep you from reasonable visitation it will be noted. According to your State to affect child support your going to need 35% of time. But there is also a clause that says the judge can ignore it. An example of an 80/20 split is visitation on weekdays and overnights every other weekend.

    Good Luck.
  • Jul 8, 2008, 06:34 AM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by califdadof3
    They should count so long as they are consistent. If you have every other then its a wash. But if you had every ( certain holiday ) then it should count. Also when going for time in the summer be sure to leave time for her to have summer vacation with the child also. Atleast 1 week. So if child gets 6 weeks off for summer then dont ask for all 6. Also try to remember that if you live close to the childs reguler activities like school etc then you can extend weekends etc. Like instead of returning the child on sunday from your weekend your the one responsible for taking the child to school on Monday. Or thursdays through Sundays every other week. It can add up quick in your favor. Also you may want to make a plea for mediation if its not automatic in your case for custody. If she truely appears to attempt to keep you from reasonable visitation it will be noted. According to your State to affect child support your going to need 35% of time. But there is also a clause that says the judge can ignore it. An example of an 80/20 split is visitation on weekdays and overnights every other weekend.

    Good Luck.


    Right now, I live 30 miles from the child's residence. The daycare is at moms job so she is insisting he be returned on Sunday nights. What do you mean consisten? The only thing that would be consistent is the EOW schedule. We will have every other holidayd. She wants to split the split the time for Xmas day until he is older, but I want Xmas eve until New years day.

    A friend told me that holidays and summer vacation days cannot be included as number of overnights, because its just a block of time and not part of the standard visitation. If I get 4 weeks in summer, that would definitely put me over the mark of 35%. If only the standard visitation shedule applies, I will be way below. Based on what your telling me, even if I achieved the 35%, the judge can deviate from the guidelines and make me pay the full CS? The mother and I don't speak. She has never allowed me any visitation outside the 6pm friday-6pm Sunday schedule and I don't expect her to allow any additional time after the final order is in place. We don't communicate on anything and I am afraid that the court will think shared custody won't work because of it. If she is against me having a Friday -monday morning schedule, how hard would it be for me to get this in the final order?
  • Jul 8, 2008, 06:36 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    Right now, I live 30 miles from the childs residence. The daycare is at moms job so she is insisting he be returned on sunday nights. What do you mean consisten?. the only thing that would be consistent is the EOW schedule. We will have every other holidayd. She wants to split the split the time for Xmas day until he is older, but I want Xmas eve until New years day.

    A friend told me that holidays and summer vacation days cannot be included as number of overnights, because its just a block of time and not part of the standard visitation. If I get 4 weeks in summer, that would definitely put me over the mark of 35%. If only the standard visitation shedule applies, I will be way below. Based on what your telling me, even if I achieved the 35%, the judge can deviate from the guidelines and make me pay the full CS? The mother and I dont speak. She has never allowed me any visitation outside the 6pm friday-6pm sunday schedule and I dont expect her to allow any additional time after the final order is in place. We dont communicate on anything and I am afraid that the court will think shared custody wont work because of it. If she is against me having a friday -monday morning schedule, how hard would it be for me to get this in the final order?


    I can guarantee 100% that you are not going to get permanent Christmas Eve to New Years Day if your ex disagrees.

    Otherwise this is CalifDad's territory - NYS is different.
  • Jul 8, 2008, 08:57 AM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    I can guarantee 100% that you are not going to get permanent Christmas Eve to New Years Day if your ex disagrees.

    Otherwise this is CalifDad's territory - NYS is different.


    I've seen some pland that have that schedule. My family lives in another state. I have no family here whatsoever. Ex wants a scheudle where one parent has xmas eve 6pm to Xmas Day 3pm, then other parent gets 3pm xmas day to 6pm the day after xmas. I would think that's unreasonable and interrupts my holiday time with my child. She says there is no point having and extended break since child is so young and not in grade school. We have not spoken in several months. This is based on my talk with her before things went sour.
  • Jul 8, 2008, 09:55 AM
    stinawords
    I have seen more cases with split holidays as every other holiday every other year. This would mean that the child(ren) is with one parent for christmas including new year one year and the other the next. The same follows with other hollidays as well. Summer is generally done as a block of time with the non-custodial parent the same time every year because that isn't a holiday.
  • Jul 8, 2008, 09:55 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    ive seen some pland that have that schedule. My family lives in another state. I have no family here whatsoever. Ex wants a scheudle where one parent has xmas eve 6pm to Xmas Day 3pm, then other parent gets 3pm xmas day to 6pm the day after xmas. I would think thats unreasonable and interrupts my holiday time with my child. She says there is no point having and extended break since child is so young and not in grade school. We have not spoken in several months. This is based on my talk with her before things went sour.


    I have seen one parent have the week leading to Christmas and perhaps the following day and the other have from that day through NY but I have never - and I'm in NYS - seen a disputed visitation over Christmas that ended up with a permanent "one parent has the whole holiday" schedule. I have seen years that alternate - one parent the entire period one year and the other parent the following year - and there are lots of Orders out there I am not aware of (!) but I personally have never seen this.

    Keep in mind that when I get involved it's because there is a dispute of some sort going on.
  • Jul 8, 2008, 04:14 PM
    cdad
    What I mean by consistent is that its exclusive to you. If you trade off then the time is a wash. Its equal so there is no gain no loss. What you have to remember is that when going to court what you read here or anywhere else is just a guideline. No one can predict what a judge will do or say on any given day. Depending on the age of the child you might be able to compromise and allow mom the child's return on Sunday but stipulate that when the child turns ( insert your number ) then overnights are extended through Sunday. Its something to consider since you want to gain time with your child as the ultimate goal.
  • Jul 22, 2008, 05:36 AM
    msir
    Mediation Process
    Can someone explain the mediation process? What, if any, kind of questions does the mediator ask before providing recommendations?


    How does Age health and gender of the child factor in to custody? My child is a healthy 16 month old boy, I am the father.


    Why would it not be a good idea to start shared custody at this age when it would not adversely affect the child... or would it?
  • Jul 22, 2008, 05:55 AM
    ScottGem
    Mediation is simply the use of a (hopefully) trained professional to try and broker a compromise agreeable to all parties. What they will ask depends on the circumstances.

    Age and health bear on the parents ability to raise a child. For example, an infant that is breastfeeding won't be able to spend overnites with the father.

    Again, the circumstances are different with each case. At 16 months there is still a lot of bonding between the mother more than the father. So pulling the child from the mother for extended periods may not be best for the child.
  • Jul 22, 2008, 06:30 AM
    msir
    So in your opinion (and I hope others can chime in on this) Is it best for a child this age not to have midweek overnight visitation? Would and evening (6-8) visitation be better?

    I am about 30 min away (40-60 in traffic) from the child so I would think midweek overnights wouldn't work if she disagrees.

    Right now I get EOW Friday 6pm to Sunday 6pm. Can I extend this to pick up child from daycare on Friday and return him to daycare Monday morning. Mom says this is not necessary since the daycare is across from her job.
  • Jul 22, 2008, 06:47 AM
    ScottGem
    To be honest, there are too many variables here for me to answer. Your attorney should be prepping you on what is doable given your coircumstances.
  • Jul 22, 2008, 07:15 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by msir
    So in your opinion (and I hope others can chime in on this) Is it best for a child this age not to have midweek overnight visitation? Would and evening (6-8) visitation be better?

    I am about 30 min away (40-60 in traffic) from the child so I would think midweek overnights wouldnt work if she disagrees.

    Right now I get EOW friday 6pm to sunday 6pm. Can I extend this to pick up child from daycare on friday and return him to daycare monday morning. Mom says this is not necessary since teh daycare is across from her job.


    I'm confused when I compare this post to your other posts - I can't quite get a grasp on the situation.

    However - I am not certain that it is in the best interest of a toddler to go back and forth between parents for more than one overnight. Some children, obviously, make the switch more easily than others. Without knowing the child and the set up for the child in both houses I think it's impossible to know what is best.

    The mediator will look at several factors, many of which you've already posted and the Board has already addressed.

    As far as mediators - and I know other people will disagree - in most but not all cases I am not in favor of using a mediator. Some mediators are more skilled than others and I've seen least angry of the two participants, the least forceful, give up and agree to terms that the Court would never order. I've seen mediators make recommendations based on the mediator's untrained evaluation of people's stability and mental health.

    There also was someone posting on this board who is/was a mediator based on some classes and absolutely no education. I found the situation to be chilling. I would check on the qualifications of the mediator - I would not meet with anyone who did not attend law school, who did not know the laws in your particular State.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 07:13 AM
    msir
    Will a judge re-hear our case
    Our court case ended a coupe weeks ago. Custody, visitation and child support awarded. I filed an exception to change the pickup time from 6pm to 7pm because the following visitation after court, I emailed ax and asked her to let me pickup ds late. She said no, because the order says we had to be on time. I wanted to come late because of work. She pointed out that I told the court I had a flexible schedule. I do. They post the schedule every week and sometimes I get off at 4, 5, or 6 depending on when they require me to come in. I testified to this in court. She said I mislead the court because I don't have a flex schdedule. I have a rotation scheudle, like shift work.


    Before I always made the 6pm pickup time with the exception of missed visitaiton for out of town work. I submitted the email My ex says I can't use it as evidence because it occurred after the court date and does not mee the criteria of evidence that wasn't presented in court.


    I also requested for us to meet at a police station because I believe my ex is hostile.

    I also asked that a councilor or third party represent the child becaue I don't want to deal with exchanging my child with my ex.

    What are the possibilities that the court will reconsider the ruling to include these requests?
  • Sep 23, 2008, 07:23 AM
    stinawords

    It isn't likely that you will get back into court for such a small change. This is something that you are better off dealing with your employer about. I realize that you don't want to go against your boss but you can bring in a copy of the order as back up for your story about why you can't work till 6.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 07:32 AM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stinawords View Post
    It isn't likely that you will get back into court for such a small change. This is something that you are better off dealing with your employer about. I realize that you don't want to go against your boss but you can bring in a copy of the order as back up for your story about why you can't work till 6.


    What about the other requests? My ex responded and said the following


    I should be denied because

    1. the email is dated after the court trial
    2. I hve never missed a 6pm pickup
    3. Nothing in the court findings warranted the exchange be at the police station or that a third party should do the exchange.


    Also, she filed a reconsideration for back child support. Apparently, it was not included in the support calculation and she wrote that my son is entitled to back child support from the date of filing which was May 2007 of last year.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 07:52 AM
    msir
    Child's support in two states
    This is regarding my older child. I am now in MD. I was divorced in VA and my ex got custody of our daughter. I was paying child support but then eventually she moved to SC and took our daughter without my knowledge. That was about 6 years ago and I never saw my daughter again. I eventually stopped paying CS beasue I wasn't working. Apparently she filed for child support some years ago in SC and I was found to owe them. I recently discovered that I owe over 28K in back child support. I think she was double dipping at some point. Shouldn't I be paying support to VA instead of SC? What can I do to get them to cancel the back support?
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:03 AM
    ScottGem

    I suggest getting an attorney to sort this out. Theorectically, when she refiled in SC, that should havde cancelled the payments owed in VA EXCEPT for the back support.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:05 AM
    msir

    So your saying although she illegally took our child out of state, and with a VA order in place, she can transfer her support to another state, although I didn't agree to her moving? How is that fair?
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:10 AM
    ScottGem

    Her taking the child out of state is a separate issue. That refers to custody and visitation. Generally, those are dealt with separately from support.

    Without knowing the terms of your custody/visitation, I don't know whether her moving was wrong or not. Nor have you mentioned what you have done to get enforce the custody/visitation.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:12 AM
    stinawords

    Those are all things that should have been brought up when you were in front of the judge. A judge will not rehear a case so soon after he/she ruled because you forgot to mention some things. If you did bring up those other concerns at the hearing the judge simply ruled against you.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:18 AM
    msir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    Her taking the child out of state is a separate issue. That refers to custody and visitation. Generally, those are dealt with separately from support.

    Without knowing the terms of your custody/visitation, I don't know whether her moving was wrong or not. Nor have you mentioned what you have done to get enforce the custody/visitation.


    I didn't do anything. Its been at least 5 years without contact. Our original court order for custody, visitation, and child support was in VA when we were both living there and without warning, she moved away at night and took our duaghet to SC where her family lives. I eventually made plans to move to South america, but I returned to my hometown in FL. I now live in MD where I have another child and I pay CS for that child.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:19 AM
    msir

    So does that mean she will not get back child support awarded?
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:23 AM
    ScottGem

    So she violated the visitation but you did nothing to enforce it. Also you decided on your own to stop paying support rather then seek a legal modification. That's 2 strikes against you.

    They should not be able to collect support in VA past the point whre she filed for support in SC. But they certainly can go after the unpaid back support.
  • Sep 23, 2008, 08:48 AM
    stinawords

    No, child support is usually figured from the date of filling. So the payments would be the same for current support but you would be in arrears so would be making higher payments until the arrears are caught up. There is a possibility that she won't get it but I am surprised that it wasn't done from the start.

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