I can't even go shopping for my daughter because everything is cut short. Skirts are micro-mini, pants are low rise, and buying shoes is even a challenge. If I do buy stuff I have to add to it but most of the time I make my daughter own clothes because it is a shame what they make for kids. One time when I was on the train I saw this girl around the same age as my daughter with a micro-miniskirts, tan top, and her shoes had to at least be 4 inches. Everyone on the train was looking at the daughter like what the hell and looking at the mom saying "you should be ashamed to have your daughter dress that way", with their eyes. It ashamed even in kids shoes everything has a heel.

Well I don't know if this is getting a little bit off topic here, but has anyone heard about these "Purity Balls" that the parents are now throwing for their kids? It used to be a simple sweet sixteen party, but now they are planning these purity balls like they are weddings! The parents are spending thousands of dollars, just because their daughter OR son, has signed a piece of paper saying they will remain "pure". Until marriage.

Now does anyone think that will work? Doubt it! The kids want a big party that's all! What happened to just teaching your kids to understand consequences! Has anyone here ever felt like rewarding their child with a huge party for merely respecting herself... or himself?

(just a disclaimer... I was no Angel when I was younger, and I still am probably not in some peoples eyes... I derserve it now though... lol)

My local newspaper wrote an article about "sagging" just last week. Bans on a popular fashion say what sags must come up | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Here's the photo they used

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i72/emland/167531.jpg

What's really funny is under the photo is a hyperlink that says "click for full view." Uh, thanks, but no thanks.

I can't talk about a fashion trend being stupid - I graduated in 1985 and subjected myself to all sorts of fashion faux pas, but what I don't get is how uncomfortable this must be. I can't stand it if the crotch hangs so much as a half inch. How do they put up with cinching it below their butt?

Fun fact: Sagging was invented by prisoners to let others know they were AVAILABLE for fun, if you know what I'm saying. Now, why that became a trend, I don't know.

One good thing about this trend, it insures that they'll always wear clean underwear. :)

If my son ever decided to leave the house looking like that, I'd lock him in his room until he got some good taste. Underwear is just that, under the things you wear. I just want to yank on the back of this kids pants, give him a wedgie he won't soon forget.

I thought you guys on this thread would find these two articles interesting... I certainly did!

BBC NEWS | Magazine | Making the world understand my face

BBC NEWS | Magazine | How should you react to disfigurement?

Hey there! Wow you guys certainly keep things interesting!

Sagging, honestly does not offend me. Trends don't make me feel judgemental. No matter what. I just understand that kids/teens are very highly sensitized to what they look upon as fashion or self propelled expression. It's just that deep, (I think) for them.

I'm surrounded by teens day in and day out... as a mom. I see all kinds of style walk thru' my door. You can't believe what comes into my house! When I get to know these kids, they're all so AWESOME.

I'm not sure who brought up me posting a pic of myself... but I honestly don't know HOW, (I'm computer challenged:( sorry! I'll ask my hubby how one day and then I'll have some.. ). I don't mean to come across like I think I'm "beautiful". That sounds so conceited. I know I am blessed, if I really think about it, but it's been the bane of my existence just the same... as it's hindered me in so many respects, (that TOO sounds conceited. This just can't come across as humble! I can't expect anyone to understand what I mean without it sounding so self absorbed. I just hope you don't think the worst of me for being honest and responding to the comment about my being beautiful... ). The good news is that it is true that with age comes change. It's becoming easier as I age.

Purity Balls sound similar to Sweet 16's in that a big party is set up very extravagantly. I'm not sure how I feel about Purity Balls. On the one hand teens thrive on reward... but on the other it almost feels like an expensive bribe, no? (Couldn't they celebrate absinance on a smaller scale and it be as big a reward? The same could be said for Sweets... )

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Originally Posted by iAMfromHuntersBar

I thought you guys on this thread would find these two articles interesting ... I certainly did!

BBC NEWS | Magazine | Making the world understand my face
[/url]

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Great article. The descriptions of the way people treat her and things that have been said to her made me angry. What a bunch of inconsiderate idiots.

My son has special needs, but his disability is "invisible." It isn't until he opens his mouth that you can tell he is developmentally delayed, i.e. pronounced stutter and juvenile subject matter. He has gone to school and played baseball with kids that have moderate to severe appearance issues - his classmate last year suffere a stroke and is dealing with the resultant paralysis; two of his buddies on the baseball team have cerebral palsy, etc.

The moms tell me that the stares are the worst, but the people that won't make eye contact are almost as bad. I have kept that in mind over the years and remember to look whomever in the eye and smile and say a simple "Hello."

I suppose the homeless feel the same too in some ways... never having anyone look at them in the eye and say hello.

We're all so focused on the wrong things in this life, aren't we? It's what is on the INSIDE that make us who we are!

How can anyone conceive to know what we're like till we're given the time of day...

Jumping in here late.

I don't think anyone should be guilty of having certain preferences in a mate... obviously for a long lasting relationship there needs to be balance... both a physical attraction and a mental connection. My cousin, a rather fit 40 something, is married to and has always been attracted to "bigger girls", as his wife says. Its how he is wired. To each their own.

One of my wife's fav birthday cards had a bare chested, hunk of a man on the front cover and it read "no matter how good he looks"... then on the inside it said "somewhere, someone is TIRED of putting up with his crap"...

So... I like certain physical traits in mates. Doesn't make me a bad guy even if that means it excludes other possible mates who are good mental matches but not physically what pushes the primal buttons. Likewise, I'm very attracted to strong women, and one of the sexiest girls I know isn't hardly a "match" for me physically, but id chase her in a heartbeat if I weren't married.

So there needs to be some balance. Let yourself have your fetishes, connect mentally. Poof. Happiness.

Or something like that.

As for money... we're friends with a couple whose yearly xmas letter reads like a year of national geographic mags... their guest house in malibu is twice the size as our home. So what? We still connect. Likewise, I have a friend who is likely to die penniless. He's a screw up, irresponsible, but a good guy in some ways... if he could only get his head out of his... well, you know.

no... we shouldn't judge just by appearance. And we shouldn't be ashamed to admit we have preferences, fetishes, etc.

Balance in most things goes a long way.

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likewise, I'm very attracted to strong women, and one of the sexiest girls I know isn't hardly a "match" for me physically, but id chase her in a heartbeat if I weren't married.

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Aw, KP, me too. Wait, were you talking about me? ;)

Or maybe talkin' about meeee?? ;)

No I really think he was talking about me! :p :D LOL!

Oh great, we're going to give the guy a swelled head, three women fighting for him. ;)

But really, I was here first! :D

...

Well, I was going to say "I'd chase you too, KP!", but obviously, you already HAVE too many women chasing you.

So... you can just chase me and I'll let you.

Synnen, I think KP is running from the bulls, or coyotes, or something. Poor guy, he's too smooth for his own good. ;)

I'll fight for him though, put up your dukes girl, bring it on! :)

You ladies own me and you know it.

Smilin' ear to ear.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

you ladies own me and you know it.

smilin' ear to ear.

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You better believe it baby. :D

Can I put that quote in my sig? ;)

Last year I donated my time as a volunteer to the school that my daughter goes to. My friend and I would car pool, as we both had basically the same hours. The reception I got was very warm and inviting on our first day... not so much for my friend. As we, the volunteer faculty were all standing around the staff's quarters adjusting our schedules for the following month... the ladies were all accommodating and super polite and humorous w/ me. For Cindy they barely made eye contact... gave her the dates to volunteer that suited the group rather than herself. I later found out it was because she does not drive a "nice" car and isn't considered attractive... so therefore unacceptable, in their standards, (lol!) CAN YOU GET OVER THAT?

The way I found out about this was that one of the women in the "group" were working so hard to be my friend... (which usually never happens to me... ), she actually said this to me: "Cindy just isn't our type of people, if you know what I mean"!! I said, "No, I don't really know what you mean". She said, "Well, *with a giggle* we like to look good and be a class above the rest"... I WAS SHOCKED! I just couldn't believe it. I also couldn't believe she said that OUT LOUD, even if her sick mind was thinking it!

I became so quickly accepted and Cindy was totally out of the loop. She's ask me all the time, "Do you get the feeling that these ladies don't like me?" I told her that they all seem to be mentally challenged anyhow so it doesn't matter. Cindy tried so hard to fit in... I couldn't bear to tell her why her attempts fell on deaf ears. It was simply too stupid!

I stopped volunteering for a while... and now I'm back. Sure "the ladies" are still there and ever as eager to have me back... but now I just pay little or no attention to the crazy that lives within the minds of those status seekers.

Can you believe people like that exist? And it's not just in Soap Opera's. Don't you just find that the most odd way to think and live? Well, I do...

See... I'm just not a nice person.

My response to her after her comment about Cindy not being "their type of people", I would have said something along the lines of "Oh! Is THAT what you're trying to be like? I would never have guessed!" and walked away.

I would have smiled at this "lady" and said... Oh I completely understand what you mean. Don't you just have to laugh at those people who are mentally challenged, and their main reason for getting their limited education was so they would be able to add up their mountain of bills at the end of the month, that their husbands spent on their secretaries... because they also want a piece of that action... while their poor wives are out doing such wonderful volunteer work? I pity Cindy. She never has any money left over at the end of the month, because for some reason she likes to donate her time and money to take care of her family and other people, and charities. ;)

It doesn't matter who dies with the most toys... they're still dead!

I don't pity Cindy. She's a very charitable person with a big big heart. She's HIGHLY intelligent. Luckily she's a bit clueless when it comes to innuendo and cattiness. It didn't affect her as much as it could have had I clued her in... which in retrospect was a fab idea that I did not.

These women/"ladies" simply do not have enough going on in their own lives... AND they are very mean spirited..

Oh NO! That is not what I meant at all! I know you don't pity Cindy. That was my sarcasm coming out, trying to get across to the "lady" how pathetic and petty she was being. I guess it would have been in the way I delivered it, and the sarcastic tone of my voice! ;) The "lady" would certainly know I was mocking her!

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Originally Posted by SweetDee

The way I found out about this was that one of the women in the "group" were working so hard to be my friend...(which usually never happens to me...), she actually said this to me: "Cindy just isn't our type of people, if you know what I mean"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said, "No, I don't really know what you mean". She said, "Well, *with a giggle* we like to look good and be a class above the rest"...I WAS SHOCKED! I just couldn't believe it. I also couldn't believe she said that OUT LOUD, even if her sick mind was thinking it!.

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I find a level stare and the phrase, "Exactly why are you telling me this?" to be most effective in situations such as this.

We belonged to a country club for business/entertaining purposes and during an event the wife of someone who wanted to do business with my husband told me that 20 years ago "those people" (referring to Jews) would not have been allowed to join.

We have a French last name - my husband was Jewish and one of "those people."

I would venture a guess that she'll either never make a comment like that again or will size up her audience more carefully the next time.

Everyone makes mistakes; stupidity is a whole different situation.

Yes, anyone that snubs their noses at anyone because of their stature, ethnicity, skin color, diability, body shape or size, etc. without getting to know the person inside, is missing out on the great person and friend they could have met, that might have enriched their lives and taught them something valuable.

I hope they can have a great conversation and get a lot of love from that bright shiny new Mercedes!. maybe the girl from OnStar will talk to them! LOL!

My response to people like that; Beauty fades, stupid lasts forever. :)

I was laughing actually when I read judykaytee's post. "Exactly why are you telling me this" is OFFICIALLY going into my rolodex of expressions I'm going to draw from for the rest of my life... it's AWESOMEEEE!! And PERFECT...

I wish I could have been at the country club and a fly on the wall... just lapping up the reaction she had to you're response... hahahahlololoolhahahha!! You have b*lls, woman! You have class too...

racism is EXACTLY what it feels like to be discriminated for anything that is externally prejudicial... Even if you are a person who is a little different.. personality wise, as well. Judging people without really giving their uniqueness a chance makes me MAD.

Everyone judges other people. I'm guilty of it, you're guilty of it--face it, everyone is guilty of it.

It's when you're RUDE about your judgements that there is a problem.

Well, I don't judge in a mean spirited way tho'... because I appreciate differences. I've been pressumed to be so many types of people w/out the benefit of them getting to know me, so NO I don't really judge people... at all.

[QUOTE=Comments on this post
SweetDee agrees: Haha, funny! But can't stupid be educated too? Is it a lost cause?? :(QUOTE]


I think ignorant is not educated; stupid is, well... stupid.

Well, you're right again, judykaytee... stupid is stupid, but I hate to believe that... :(

I have been around mentally challenged children and adults since the birth of my son. He turns 18 in December. I have never met a person with special needs that is a snob. Most are friendly and accept any new person into the group. The exception are the kids with emotional disorders.

The insufferable snots I have come across over the years are almost 100% well educated, high-maintenance women. I'm sure there are snotty men, but I haven't met any, yet. I really believe these people are incredibly insecure and snottiness their shield.

Judy's experience is almost the same as the one I had with one of the Wive's groups I encountered with while DH was in the Navy. I found a different organization to join. I don't play well with people like that.

To change this up just a bit. I have gone to social events, and because I was dressed well, good looking, not the least bit snotty by any means, but more on the shy end really, the men (married or not) would always come and approach me. I didn't initiate it, or make the first move. I would talk and probably flirt a little with some, if I knew it was appropriate, and that I wasn't upsetting anyone's wife or girlfriend. I constantly got called a "slut"... or "tramp" just for having conversation. There was no innapropriate touching, and no exchanging of phone numbers, or anything like that, ESPECIALLY if I knew they were involved with someone else.

I know what it feels like to be judged by someone that doesn't know you. I have been cheated on more than once (way more) and I would never do that to another woman. But yet, because they saw me as a threat, I was labeled a "whore" without anyone getting to know that I have my moral standards, and I got judged for just dressing and looking the way I did, and having innocent fun and conversation, with a member of the opposite sex.

Starbuck8, I'm sorry that you got labelled and mistreated (you seem like such a lovely lady.. and I already like you), however you did play into the insecurities of some of the women there. Unless you know the women well, to assume that innocent flirting is OK is... well, presumptuous. Especially in lieu of the fact that you have been cheated on... you know the insecurity that befalls a scorned woman, right? Maybe the men that you casually and innocently flirted w/ were not innocent kinds of men, (especially according to the experiences their spouses/girlfriends might have had). You don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

As innocent as you were... looks are deceiving. We all have had some experiences in our lives where someone is thinking you mean something that you clearly do not. People make mistakes. I'm sure you were just having fun... however the fun was one sided. The women who were on the other side of your fun seem to have been worried and panicked... if they were labelling you something so cruel. Why would you want to create that kind of threat/drama?

I understand looking good and dressing well... and being judged without flirtatious behavior (as an ever threatening guillotine ready to chop off all the hard work one puts into their relationship). I just think it's sabotaging for yourself to, on top of what comes easy for you, (looking good and dressing well... ) making the women in the room resent you. I mean, it doesn't make you across as very nice. Too bad they didn't get to see how awesome you are. (Lol.. that's the best revenge, being hot and super duper nice!)

I have had enough judgement bestowed upon me for just looking as I do... I had to learn the hard way when I was a fledgling... "Do not flirt with other woman's men"... Not only did I learn it I respect it...

I think insecure women need more "stroking" than a hottie like you, no?

I look upon situations like those as a lesson to learn...

You made some good points there SweetDee. I might not have explained what I said as well as I should have once again though. I would only flirt with the single guys, or the men who's wives knew me well, and knew that I was no threat to them.

The problem was, it was the husbands whose wives didn't know me, would see the other guys in the "group" having fun, and they would come over and join the rest. I was very careful not to flirt, and in fact try and avoid these men. Most times I would see the stares from the wives when this happened, and would politely excuse myself from the conversation, because it made me feel uncomfortable. I would even try and go and get to know the wives, and spend time with them, but because their husbands approched me, most often in a group of males and females, they wouldn't have anything to do with me.

I believe since they saw me flirting and laughing with the single men, their husbands wanted in on the "fun", and the wives were angry at their husbands, so they took it out on me, instead of their husbands.

I'll give you just one example. There was one man, that had a girlfriend who I knew was a part of the group that would call me these names. Her boyfriend was in fact a very annoying man, and I couldn't stand him. Every time I would see him anywhere, I would say to whoever I was with... "Oh God, please don't let him come over here." Sure enough, over he'd come. I would just politely say hi, and pretend I was involved in an in-depth conversation, or get up and go to the bathroom, or whatever I could do at the time.

Well, one time he was drunk (as he normally was) and he was standing behind me and tried to grab me. I stood up and said Ray, if you do that again you'll regret it. Go back and sit with your girfriend and leave me the hell alone! Well his girlfriend saw him grab me, but couldn't hear what went on, and she came charging over and threw her drink in my face, and said, "leave my 'husband' alone you slut" in front of a room full of people.

After the initial shock, I tried to explain to her that her 'husband'... as she called him', approached me and I had told him to go away. She made a big scene, and told me that it was me and not him that had started this. Of course the whole crowd saw this, and hadn't seen what had initially happened, so then of course all of the girls were hanging onto their guys, and since I had been there with a girlfriend, she was guilty by association also.

I just left... which I shouldn't have had to do, but to make everyone else happy, I did. So these were her insecurities, and nothing that I did, to provoke him in any way. The guy was a creep! Ewwwww! LOL! But it got to the point where I would no longer go to any of these places where I knew some of these people would be. Some people can be very cruel when they judge someone because of the way they dress or look, and I think that this is a good example of how people's own insecurities cause them to make these judgements.

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Originally Posted by starbuck8

I believe since they saw me flirting and laughing with the single men, their husbands wanted in on the "fun", and the wives were angry at their husbands, so they took it out on me, instead of their husbands.

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Two things I have learned from this thead:

(1) There is clearly something wrong with me - I have never had another woman accuse me of moving in on her man.

(2) My mother will not throw a purity ball for me - she says the time for that has passsed. So forget the get together I was planning for all of us.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Two things I have learned from this thead:

(1) There is clearly something wrong with me - I have never had another woman accuse me of moving in on her man.

(2) My mother will not throw a purity ball for me - she says the time for that has passsed. So forget the get together I was planning for all of us.

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Hahahahaha! Judy that made my day! You mean we can't still have our purity ball? Bummer! I had so many plans! :p :D

As for #!-- I think again we are going back to the small town mentallity. Everyone seems to think they know everyone here. I know for a fact, even if I haven't left my home, that I will hear something from someone about someone else. It's ridiculous!

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Originally Posted by starbuck8

Hahahahaha!! Judy that made my day! You mean we can't still have our purity ball? Bummer!! I had so many plans! :p :D

As for #!-- I think again we are going back to the small town mentallity. Everyone seems to think they know everyone here. I know for a fact, even if I haven't left my home, that I will hear something from someone about someone else. It's ridiculous!

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And what am I going to do with all these purity rings?

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

And what am I going to do with all these purity rings?

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Well my jewellery box is full, so maybe we could combine them all and sell them, and start over and buy ourselves diamonds instead! Then we could have a new party! Hmmmm... any idea's what we might call it? ;)

Maybe we could have a girlz party called our BTDT Party! (Been there... done that!) ;) :D