It's because I'm so smart; S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by J_9
|
It's because I'm so smart; S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Yes, girl, you are!! :D :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jillianleab
And level headed too!! :p
As a man I'm glad it ain't my call. But I stand behind my woman's choice. That doesn't mean I agree, or like it.
This is true but it stll is murder. No matter what, not you nor I nor anyone else has the right to take the life of another. Abortion is just the worlds way of placing the wrong actions of another on the innocent. Their solution is to rid the situation of the innocent one so the causer of the situation in the first place can do their own thing. Where is the fairness in that kind of solution. Isn't that only fair to those able to protect themselves. What about the helpless human waiting to be born, who protects them?Quote:
Originally Posted by startover22
Jadona2006
How far back do you want to take this argument then?
When the egg begins dividing?
When the sperm reaches the egg and begins fertilization?
The point of ejaculation?
The point where the egg and sperm are created?
Is the morning-after pill murder? Is wearing a condom? How about having a vasectomy?
Hope, you cannot murder something that is not conscious. There is not evidence that a fetus can feel pain until 24-28 weeks.
I agree with the post above. When does it stop becoming murder? Are the billions of men who masturbate murderers? A sperm could turn into a life, too, so is each ejaculation of semen a massacre?
When it comes down to it, it is better for society to allow abortion; however, I do agree that we should do all we can to prevent abortion through education.
Hope, while you are entitled to your belief that a clump of cells is a valid human being--it is just that, a BELIEF.
I personally believe that until that clump of cells is a fetus, and is viable outside of its mothers body, that it is JUST A CLUMP OF CELLS.
I am trying desperately to get pregnant. I placed a child for adoption. I STILL believe that choosing abortion is no more callous and selfish in some cases than choosing to get cancer removed from your body. When one chooses abortion they are choosing to get rid of a GROWTH that is UNWANTED and can affect one's health and sanity.
I am not imposing my beliefs on you. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one. I didn't get one either, because I thought that little life should have a chance. I don't, however, run around imposing my beliefs on other people because I disagree with them. Legal abortion = SAFE abortion, and there are enough valid reasons to get an abortion that it needs to stay legal. Of course some people abuse that--just like people abuse the Welfare System. That doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of entirely because SOME people abuse it.
If you don't like abortion - GREAT! It's a free country, and luckily, you can believe what you want.
If you start trying to make it illegal, I'll be forced to stand up to you and fight to keep it legal.
As to your argument that women who choose abortion are murderers--are you going to start putting them on trial for that? And if that's the case, are you going to try women who have miscarried for manslaughter (which is, of course, accidental death)?
You can not possibly imagine what goes through the mind of a woman who chooses abortion. Please stop assuming that everyone is just aborting fetuses left and right because it's "inconvenient". Every woman I know that has had an abortion, did it for health reasons.
I'll pray for you, since you obviously have problems with the whole idea that God will judge men and women for their hard choices, not you.
I remember driving by an abortion clinic with people standing outside with their signs and their retoric and full of rage. I stopped and tried to see what the commotion was. They were all trying to stop a woman from entering the clinic and she was crying so hard. I had to get out of my car and defend her. This situation frightened and appalled me. These people were so cruel and angry. I don't know how they can preach in God's name. IT IS NOT AN EASY DECISION FOR ANYONE TO MAKE. Being a parent is the most difficult and challenging thing that anyone can ever do. To dictate your beliefs and your values to others is not only counterproductive, it is also often hurtful. NOt only do you disagree with abortion, but you put everyone who has one in the same category. If one does believe that life begins at conception, that is an OPINION> If one doesn't it is a different OPINION. We are not going to change our beliefs because of YOUR OPINIONS. IF you want to save someone, than help the children that are already alive without parents. There are plenty of them around to choose from. Trying to have control over someone's else body, that is the most invasive and unhealthy thing to do. You have a right to your beliefs, so do those that think and choose differently. God gave us our own bodies, and our own ability to decide what to do with them. There are limits to what is appropriate and what is ethical. The standard by which you apply it, is subject to each individual's perception of what they believe in. Nobody is saying abortion is the answer, we are saying it is an option that has been used since the beginning of time and to ensure the safety of women, we must keep it safe and legal. Women will abort babies whether they are legal or not. It isn't a matter of opinion, it is a fact. That fact makes it our responsibility to make sure it is done in a way that is safe for the woman, and that it occurs BEFORE viability.
Hope, you still have not answered this question. Is it murder if the child will be born dead? Don't you believe that in medical situations that it sometimes may be necessary?
See the baby in this picture? It is a real baby with absolutely NO chance for survival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I think its very clear that there can be some valid reasons for terminating a pregnancy, and we must also recognise that there are some very selfish ones also. They shoot horses to keep them from suffering, and doctors can go to prison for helping the terminally ill die painlessly with dignity. Life may not have the same value to all and it may not be fair to label all females that have abortions murderers, but I think the facts will support that most of them, the selfish or foolish ones, can wear the label, and I can make no excuses for that, that they have brought knowingly on themselves. My apology for broadbrushing ALL females.
Ok, so then there are those babies that are doomed inside us... they are born... and with mercy and miracles... they begin to eat, drink, sleep, grow, talk, walk, tell you they love us... ahhh... the stories I have heard and the things I have gone through to see these miracles... You just never know... this is a very hard subject because by no means would I want to see a child die...
EDIT::::
Especially one that may live a good life... A good life can be different for all of us...
But for the doomed and cannot be born... I would understand...
"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" - When the Anti-Choice Choose
To sum up a terrific article... to most people, the only moral abortion is their OWN abortion.
Until you are faced with the choice you DO NOT KNOW how you will decide. Period. Many anti-abortionists and right-to-lifers have had abortions, their only horror was the idea that their peers would find out.
This is very true... what you say Synn..
It takes a sperm and an egg. Life begins AT CONCEPTION not merely ejaculation as in masturbation. There is a fetal heart beating audibly on ultrasound around 8 weeks. There is a human life there. It is a miracle! For those that have had abortions, God wipes the slate clean and does not carry around a list of people who have made wrong choices. ALL of us have and still make wrong choices every day. Some abortions are medically necessary. Others are not. We can't judge others.
I argue that abortion should be unrestricted until there is evidence that the fetus feels pain.
Hello Again,Quote:
Originally Posted by shatteredsoul
What I have stated in the past is my opinion and how I express it is the best way, I know how too. If one takes offence because of my opinions and expresses that offense as if I am judgemental and wanting everyonue to change to my way, are they not being judgemental of me?
I have free will as you or anyone else does, therefore, I express my opinion freely as you do, and very well I must say!
When we come on to websites such as this where a variety of opinions and cultures and religious and none religious views are expressed, we need to understand that not everyone will agree with one another. You and I my friend disagree. Why?
1) I never intended to offend anyone.
2) What I have stated is from my heart and I have expressed it freely.
3) If anyone takes offense then they are not agreeing with my opinion and can express that.
4) To say I am judgemental and then turn around and judge me as, and I qoute: "For you to take your own choices and explain them as God's truth, means that it is only your perception of what God wants for us.This eliminates anyone else's views, experiences, or beliefs."
In your above statement you are judging. I only state what is in my heart. As to my beliefs, I understand that not all will believe as I do, yet you judge me as thinking that way. When a person truly believes in their heart something and truly feels it will benefit others, are they really being judgmental to express that? I say no, for if I have something or know something that will benefit others and I believe it with all my heart, would I not be selfish and unloving not to share it?
5)
You stated:"All in all, I think you want to help and be compassionate and loving. However, the way you are presenting your opinion, makes it difficult for those that think different to feel that it isn't an attack on our perception or beliefs. We have to embrace what we don't understand or agree with, to be truly compassionate."
First of all the online dictionary says to embrace something is "3. a close affectionate and protective acceptance; "his willing embrace of new ideas"; "in the bosom of the family"
If one totally disagrees with someone elses opinion, why would they embrace it? Isn't that hypocritical? Is it not better to just be honest with others and state your heartfelt opinion? Why just follow the crowd because that is what makes you get excepted by others?
Many here have expressed there opinion in favor of choice. That is the right and part of their free will. I have done the same except I stated what I feel God has told us in his word the Bible. If that has offended you please take my deepest apology for the way I have expressed, but I have not learned any other way but honety from my heart. I though do not apologize for my opinion or my beliefs. I can only state what is in my heart and my concern according to my beliefs for others. If I "embrace" something I truly feel is wrong and against God as I personally and truly believe, then I would be a liar and a hypocrite and not truthful to my faith in my God.
Again please except my apologies ifI offended you with my expression, that is never my intention, nor anything that would enter my heart.
Thank you and have a good day.
Hope12
Hope, I do see your point here. Yet you continue to avoid the issue of my question. I asked if you believe that there may possibly be a medical need for abortion. Did you read that?
If not, please do, it's up there, and respond back, I would like to hear your thoughts on what you would do if you had that baby inside you.
J, how far along is that baby in the picture you posted..
Did you even read this before giving the reddie? Imagine if this was your baby.
Quote:
Hope, you still have not answered this question. Is it murder if the child will be born dead? Don't you believe that in medical situations that it sometimes may be necessary?
See the baby in this picture? It is a real baby with absolutely NO chance for survival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Let me ask if aborting a fetus with anecephaly is considered murder. Anecephaly is a cephalic disorder that results from a neural tube defect that occurs when the cephalic (head) end of the neural tube fails to close, usually between the 23rd and 26th day of pregnancy, resulting in the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull, and scalp. Infants with this disorder are born without a forebrain, the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebral hemispheres (which include the isocortex, which is responsible for higher level cognition. The remaining brain tissue is often exposed - not covered by bone or skin.
These children typically do not live one hour after birth, if they live this long.
Is this murder if the woman chooses abortion then?
Does no one believe there may be medical reasons for abortion?
Is it murder to have an abortion when you know that this baby will not live but a few hours at most?
__________________
That baby is 24 weeks post conception and has absolutely no chance of survival if it even makes it as far as term.Quote:
Originally Posted by startover22
You see. I had a baby like that 22 years ago. Do you think my decision was an easy one? No, it wasn't and I still live with it to this day.
I would never "kill" a child, but mine had no hope for life and the fetus itself made my body septic. Without doing what I had to medically do, both the child and I would have died. I didn't have a choice Hope12.
Now, I don't agree with terminating a pregnancy as a form of birth control. No, to me that is wrong. Yet, you go on and give me a reddie without responding to the REAL issue at hand.
I have had 4 more children since then, and all are healthy and wonderful. I never would have terminated if my life were not in danger.
You can preach your holiness all you want, but until you walk in my shoes you will never know what it truly feels like.
And yes, I am offended by most of what you have said. You can't truly understand the pain I feel when I see someone like you posting and preaching your holier than thou attitude the way you do, on a subject such as this, without having some compassion for those of us who are not given a choice but to terminate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
J9,
You are so strong to have made such a tough decision.
I agree with you J9, though I have never experienced anything like yours, my belief/religion will allow me to abort any pregnancy if it is an endangerment to me or to the baby in my womb.
Hope,
I don't really think you understand what to believe about anything, without referring to the bible. THat isn't a bad thing, but it isn't the way all of us decide what we believe and what is true. You think because you say that the bible says this or that, that you are just telling us what the "truth" is and what is in your heart. Well my question to you is, what is in your heart and your mind, without looking to the bible for answers? After all, those are words written by men who think they understood what God's message was and wanted to share it. However, this was done with their own perceptions and therefore, it too, is not the end all be all of What God wants for us. I was raised in a Catholic conservative family. NO one believes abortion is the right choice, for most circumstances. I too believed this, until I got older and became more aware of life and what I really believe. I am a mother, and I am one who believes in God, not the way you do, but just the same, I believe. I don't have any judgment about you thinking abortion is wrong, except that they way you preach religion, you are giving everyone the impression that you have to save everyone and help them see the REAL TRUTH. The truth is, you don't know what other people have to go through to make that decision. As J9 mentioned, her experience was one that left her no choice but to abort a child who would have died anyway. IT doesn't help when people like you write these kinds of posts talking about a fetus asking a mommy why are you doing this? It appears as though you are trying to make people feel guilty about making such a decision, through guilt and religion you are trying to sway people. IT isn't effective. It engrages those of us who have experienced this for whatever reason, and feel like they are being personally attacked. I don't think you realize that those people that are pro choice, don't go around preaching about why they are pro choice, unless they are being attacked or their rights are being limited, by those that are pro life. Abortion is something that is always going to be controversial. People will always have their own opinions. YOu choose life, others don't. Being compassionate means to understand that those that do choose different, aren't any less close to God than you are. It means that they have decided what is best for them. NO one is preaching to you how to not keep your baby, so why preach to those that don't want to keep theirs? The hippocrisy comes in the way you feel your approach and perspective is the only way. I am not saying my way is the only way, but to respect my difference. That is what I mean about being compassionate. To be a soldier for God, you must be compassionate about what you don't understand or agree with. I don't understand or agree with your perception, but you put it out there for me to give you my opinion. I wouldn't berate you with my outlook, if you weren't asking the question, IS this fair? I would let you live your life and never tell you that you should think the way I do. That is the difference between you and me. I am saying this is my belief and my truth, and anyone can disagree, but respect my opinions. You are saying ,this is your belief and it is your duty to make everyone understand it, so that they won't decide to abort their baby.VERY different than my approach. So to say that I am a hippocrite or that I am judgmental, is simply not true. I am not judging your perception, I am simply arguing that your perspective is not the only one, and thus, I disagree that it is harmful to IMPOSE YOUR beliefs on everyone that does think different.
J9,Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I just saw the above post and it is so sad,but true.Some medical conditions make a baby less likely to survive.
I agree with you, it is not murder to have an abortion when you know that the baby will not live but a few hours at most.
There are and can be medical reasons for an abortion.
Most people do disagree with what I say because it is not what they want. When it comes to God's laws, I feel it is not important what I want but what God requires of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Thank you for your reply however there is no debate with me when it comes to obeying God's laws, and personal ideas and choices.
Take care,
Hope12
I guess the big difference lies in the fact that a lot of people think for themselves versus following the verses from a book than can be interpreted various ways.
Hope12, Sweet, God wouldn't want you to suffer in that instance... he would forgive you if there was reason to... I think he knows how faithful you are and I really don't think you are understanding what he is really about... God would be like this... (in my own mind)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
"Hope12, I am sorry, I am not ready for you to have this child yet, please I am also not ready to lose you....you have a choice....please make it" Hope replies... "But God, it is against your laws to get an abortion" God says " Hope, it ia against my laws to kill your self...."
This is all I can come up with... I see your faithfulness... but sometimes... we have to be reasonable...
You still avoid my question to you. Why is that Hope? Because in my instance you know I am right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
My termination was NOT CHOICE, yet you skirt over my personal issue and reply to everyone else. You only see abortion as a choice, not a necessity in some instances.
What is the matter Hope? What scares you about that Hope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
You know. Your realii starting to take it to major offense. j9 I don't like how you're just acting with this whole situation. Hope is just stating the opinions that feel are important to mention. OK your termination was not choice, but it doesn't mean you should be arguing with hope. Abortion is wrong. Period. Done with. I agree with hope. If you don't, then that's you. Hope knows what she's saying, and that's all there is to it.
Any more questions, feel free to email me
EMAIL REMOVED
Thanks
Bye
Kathy
GOD BLESS
What did you just read the last post and that is it? I hate to tell you but NO that is NOT just IT... Apparently you are new at this but you need to be more well informed before you open your mouth about what everyone on this thread has discussed. Hope has very distinct and strict religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean her opinions are the ultimate truth or correct perspective for EVERYONE. READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE MAKING SUCH ASSUMPTIOnS. To assume is to make an A$$ of you and me!
I don't know but it irks the SH!t out of me when people do that!!
Personally, Kathy, I don't care if you don't like how I am acting with this whole situation, who am I to care what you think? I know what was right for me and other women in my shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by improchoice_ichooseLIFE
Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have one. Sorry if I offended anyone with that remark, but I hate it when people post and run like Kathy did. Just look at her name, most likely she signed on here just to put this last jab in improchoice_ichooseLIFEQuote:
Originally Posted by improchoice_ichooseLIFE
And, lastly, Hope started the thread, she should expect all the repercussions that come along with opening a can of worms and starting a thread that is such a sensitive subject for some.
I know this is dragging up an old discussion, but I thought people from both sides of this argument would like to read this news item;
BBC NEWS | UK | Abortion stories: Relief and regret
Which puts across two sides of the story!
J
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:45 PM. |