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Originally Posted by talaniman

I just unplugged my toaster until you guys figure this out.

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LMAO! That was great! Coupldnt rep you yet though! :D

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Originally Posted by Chery

I strongly feel that a serious lack of guidance in any culture can 'create' individuals without soul. Or, too much guidance that originates from a warped source.

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So you are saying that, once born, one could actually lose their soul... due to whatever influences and/or factors come into play.

Interesting... :cool:

You have to admit that this is a great thread for humor and serious discourse.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

So you are saying that, once born, one could actually lose their soul... due to whatever influences and/or factors come into play.

interesting..... :cool:

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OK, I see where you're coming from, even a criminal, terrorist dictator, someone like Hitler, all have a soul. And in the end, some religions even insist on 'saving' them with a prayer or kiss on the cross. But this, I believe is another subject.

We were initially talking about AIs and their rights - then got into it deeper. As far as AIs go, it probably depends on the 'programmer'...

P.S. If you know any aliens, give them my email address. I'd really like some 'outside' opinions regarding what we "god's creatures" are doing with this planet and ourselves.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_4_127.gif NOBODY'S PERFECT - Unfortuanately.

Have a Great Holiday Weekend, folks!

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

I don't know about rights but as soon as you finish with it, could you send it over to my office - we are having a major intelligence deficiency there, it seems??! :D

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Would love to, but M.I.D. Is spreading here in Europe, and there are not enough AIs yet, to go around.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_5.gifSo sad!

Sending you my toaster,vacuum and micro-wave they suck up electricity but don't pay rent! And anyone in need of M.I.D. we have plenty let the toaster know and he will help you out(He's the ring leader)

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Sending you my toaster,vacuum and micro-wave they suck up electricity but don't pay rent! And anyone in need of M.I.D. we have plenty let the toaster know and he will help you out(He's the ring leader)

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Hope you don't really want that disease - I'm sure you asked for the cure but unfortunately, there isn't any yet.

Have a great weekend anyway - and don't worry, you still have a certain amount of control over those appliances, just not the power company. They suck (or drain.. whatever)!


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_4_127.gif

My only AI battle is my computer... he may be smart but he is still too slow for me! However, he seems to know when I am in a hurry and he will usually s... l... o... w... d... o... w... n... everything

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

My only AI battle is my computer... he may be smart but he is still too slow for me! However, he seems to know when i am in a hurry and he will usually s....l...o.....w... d....o....w.....n.... everything

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I think I've got his sister. Is yours related to HP? I also have a Sony Vaio, I'm sure it has a twin somewhere.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_8_10.gif

"Dude, I gotta Dell" (I know... I just cat resist the lame attampt at lame jokes sometimes lol)

Yes, I have a Dell (which has just partnered with the AntiChrist himself, Google... in Googles most recent attempt to take over the world)

Which brings up a good point... will Google be the first to develop fully functional AI?

I wouln't put it past them.. You never know.

It will be interesting to follow the news and find out who comes up with the best soon. Japan has done a good job at robots.

Anyone have a link to a good site to follow-up on new technology?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif

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Originally Posted by Chery

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALIENS AND AI'S.. It's totally inconcievable to believe that we are the only planet with life - no matter what degree.[/b]

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I know there is a difference between the aliens and AIS. I agree that there might very well be other creatures on other planets. However, some individuals seem quite able to conceive a universe where humans are the only intelligent living things.

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UNFORTUNATELY... You've just described many beings on this planet already - and they are human and not machines, and I'm also NOT talking about clones. History gives us an example on one very (in)famous - Hitler.

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Not unfortunate at all, Just a simple misunderstanding. God did not create mankind in the fallen imperfect condition it is in right now. That's why he considered his creation good because it was blameless and without blemish.


Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, His work is perfect;For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

Ecclesiastes 7:29
Truly, this only I have found: That God made man upright, But they have sought out many schemes.”

Admin test post.

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Originally Posted by Starman

God did not create mankind in the fallen imperfect condition it is in right now. That's why he considered his creation good because it was blameless and without blemish.

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I have a hard time with this... I feel that God created everything. He created the opportunity for Life to be this way... He created how we are today... He created sin... He created us with the ability to sin... He created Satan... He created Lucifer.

To say otherwise is also to say that He didn't create beautiful sunsets... sure, He created the Sun, the Clouds, and the Horizon, but He didn't create them falling just as they do to create such a beautiful sunset. However, given the course of things, it is inevitable that these sunsets sill occur.

Some may argue that a sunset is part of the natural progession and by so, of course He intended it to be... I feel the same about Mankind. It is part of our natural progression and He did intend it to be this way... maybe that's not the best way to put it; rather, He intended to allow it to become this way.

Regardless of all that, He is still the Rock, His work is still perfect; For all His ways are still justice, and He is still a God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

Hi Starman.. I cannot, and will not begin to try and figure out what God's plans are.

I just sometimes don't understand his reasoning behind letting chaos happen all over the world. If it is a test, then I certainly hope it's finished soon.

Sammy Davis Junior, while talking to Kenny Kingston (a psychic) stated that there would not be as many religions by the year 2008 as there are now. If this is the case, then we can expect a lot of changes within the next few years - hopefully for the better. But, this is also another subject.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif Gosh, there are so many points to ponder.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

I have a hard time with this... I feel that God created everything. He created the opportunity for Life to be this way... He created how we are today... He created sin... He created us with the ability to sin... He created Satan... He created Lucifer.

To say otherwise is also to say that He didnt create beautiful sunsets... sure, He created the Sun, the Clouds, and the Horizon, but He didnt create them falling just as they do to create such a beautiful sunset. However, given the course of things, it is inevitible that these sunsets sill occur.

Some may argue that a sunset is part of the natural progession and by so, of course He intended it to be... I feel the same about Mankind. It is part of our natural progression and He did intend it to be this way... maybe thats not the best way to put it; rather, He intended to allow it to become this way.

Regardless of all that, He is still the Rock, His work is still perfect; For all His ways are still justice, and He is still a God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

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I agree that he has allowed this condition to happen for a reason.
Where we differ is that you seem to be saying it's a permanent part of God's plan when the Bible tells us it isn't.

Isaiah 65:17
[ The Glorious New Creation ] “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Acts 3:21
Whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

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Originally Posted by Chery

Hi Starman.. I cannot, and will not begin to try and figure out what God's plans are.

I just sometimes don't understand his reasoning behind letting chaos happen all over the world. If it is a test, then I certainly hope it's finished soon.

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The bible tells us that the chaos in the present situation is a consequence of a challenge to God's universal right of governing and a human and angelic rebellion which strove to prove that creatures can do better without divine guidance.


The rebels, mankind and certain angels, have been given time to prove their accusation before the universe. But we are living in the time of the end of this allowed time since the evidence is clear. Mankind cannot prosper without the blessings and guidance of its creator and rebel angels are no benfit. In fact, mankind under their influence and due to its fallen nature might very well destroy himself and all life on earth. But befoere this happens God promises to intervene.

Revelation 21:4
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

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Sammy Davis Junior, while talking to Kenny Kingston (a psychic) stated that there would not be as many religions by the year 2008 as there are now. If this is the case, then we can expect a lot of changes within the next few years - hopefully for the better. But, this is also another subject.

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Does this include a religion where AI considers us its god?

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Quote:
Sammy Davis Junior, while talking to Kenny Kingston (a psychic) stated that there would not be as many religions by the year 2008 as there are now. If this is the case, then we can expect a lot of changes within the next few years - hopefully for the better. But, this is also another subject.



Does this include a religion where AI considers us its god?

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I just hilighted the part of the quote that indicates this is another subject..

Even though this started with the subject of AI's rights - it turned to 'religion and the soul', so the deviation from the subject was there...

I don't think God has anything to do with AIs at all.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_136.gif

The question can be approached from a purely ethical one in which God is not involved. Or it can be approached from a religious standpoint where God is involved. Since there are both atheists, agnostics as well as religious persons at this forum the responses to the question will vary accordingly.

Perhaps I should have qualified the question by stating that it should only be considered from a non-religious ethical point of view and asked it asked for a purely religious point of view at the religious forum.

Hmmm.. interesting conversation.

Self aware AI machine!

Persoal opinion: I challenge Science to produce a robot more intelligent than a man. It just seems logically impossible. Why do we have control over all the computers we(I mean they) make? Because, we make it! That's just how I see it. Simple enough. Btw, make sure you do have a delete/backspace/undo button, though.. just in case..

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Originally Posted by Starman

I agree that he has allowed this condition to happen for a reason.
Where we differ is that you seem to be saying it's a permanent part of God's plan when the Bible tells us it isn't.

Isaiah 65:17
[ The Glorious New Creation ] “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Acts 3:21
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

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Permanent as in an eternal or everlasting part of His plan? No, I wouldn't say that. I know that the Bible tells us that He will create a new, perfect Earth for us.

Imagine if we had the ability to create worlds, as well. Imagine that we were to create a world strictly for artificially intelligent beings, created in our image. We would also give them the ability to pro-create artificial life. This world would sort of be our first test for them. We would give them free will and the rights to do as they please. However, with the first of the creations, we would lay out the moral guidelines. Given their free will, we must assume that there is the strong likelihood that they will do as we did. However again, we also leave them with the promise that if they walk the righteous path, we will guarantee them a place in a better world.

They are all hard wired to our mainframe where we would log their actions, feelings, true intentions, etc. At the time of their "death," we would judge them.

This whole time, we know how this will inevitably end.

Im not saying that God is just like us and that He, too, once lived on an Earth. But, in His all-knowing, He knows how this, too, will inevitably end.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Imagine if we had the ability to create worlds, as well. Imagine that we were to create a world strictly for artificially intelligent beings, created in our image. We would also give them the ability to pro-create artifical life. This world would sort of be our first test for them. We would give them free will and the rights to do as they please. However, with the first of the creations, we would lay out the moral guidelines. Given their free will, we must assume that there is the strong likelyhood that they will do as we did. However again, we also leave them with the promise that if they walk the righteous path, we will guarantee them a place in a better world. They are all hard wired to our mainframe where we would log their actions, feelings, true intentions, etc. At the time of their "death," we would judge them.

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Are you sure Doc, that you aren't an escaped writer from the original Twilight Zone show?? LOL :D

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

Are you sure Doc, that you aren't an escaped writer from the original Twilight Zone show??? LOL :D

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Lol no, I just escaped FROM the Twilight Zone ;)

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Originally Posted by samir_raut88

hmmm..interesting conversation.

self aware AI machine!.. ?

Persoal opinion: I challenge Science to produce a robot more intelligent than a man. It just seems logically impossible. Why do we have control over all the computers we(i mean they) make? Because, we make it! That's just how i see it. simple enough. Btw, make sure you do have a delete/backspace/undo button, though..just in case..

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But the hypothetical doesn't require the AI to as intelligent as we are. Only that it be self-aware and able to suffer at least psychologically. Let's say it has what humans say is an avwerage IQ and it is the result of an experiment why succeeded in making an AI self aware.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Imagine if we had the ability to create worlds, as well. Imagine that we were to create a world strictly for artificially intelligent beings, created in our image. We would also give them the ability to pro-create artifical life. This world would sort of be our first test for them. We would give them free will and the rights to do as they please. However, with the first of the creations, we would lay out the moral guidelines. Given their free will, we must assume that there is the strong likelyhood that they will do as we did. However again, we also leave them with the promise that if they walk the righteous path, we will guarantee them a place in a better world.

They are all hard wired to our mainframe where we would log their actions, feelings, true intentions, etc. At the time of their "death," we would judge them.

This whole time, we know how this will inevitably end.

Im not saying that God is just like us and that He, too, once lived on an Earth. But, in His all-knowing, He knows how this, too, will inevitably end.

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So essentially what you are saying is that these AI creatures deserve approximately the same rights we have with the same restriction of cause and effect due to obedience or disobediennce to their creator. You also seem to be saying that we as their creator deserve their obedience based on being its creator alone.

SO if these AI's would demand to be their own guides as to rules among themselves trhen we would be justified in pressing the erase button?

Starman-

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SO if these AI's would demand to be their own guides as to rules among themselves trhen we would be justified in pressing the erase button?

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Brings to mind the reason for the great flood.

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Originally Posted by Starman

SO if these AI's would demand to be their own guides as to rules among themselves trhen we would be justified in pressing the erase button?

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Isn't God justified in the same way?

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Isnt God justified in the same way?

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True, and the reason is that there can't be peace on earth unless his intelligent creation do things within the parameters of his instructions.


Taliman:

The AI erasure and Noachian Flood comparison fits better if only those AI's unwilling to follow the recommended program which keeps the system working properly are erased. Remember Noah and his family survived.