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Improv

I was always warned by piano teachers to stick with the sheet music and don't veer off-course. I've been listening to improv jazz groups. Each time a song can be played differently, but it always sounds good. How does improv work? Who plays the melody and how does everyone in the group know? How does a member of the group (sax, drummer, bass, etc.) acquire the "spotlight" and do a solo? How does any one group member know if he should syncopate or trill or play the tune straight or whatever, since none of them play with sheet music? How do they keep the same rhythm?

Please explain to me how improv works.

I can see that you are looking at your question here, Wondergirl! Like our "Michelle" maybe I'll just go and get something to eat for a little bit.. Tee, hee... :D

Meany!!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Meany!!!!!!!!!!!

Just teasing! :) You know that I am going to answer your question, because it's right up my alley! :eek:

Now, let me go and see if what's in the microwave is done...

I wanted to call you to ask but didn't have your number. It seems like a conversation-type question in that, when you explain each aspect of improv, it will make me think of new questions.

Hey! It isn't suppertime yet.

I spent two hours on the phone last night talking with a NJ cyberfriend about "What is literature?" Lots of smart people out there...

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I wanted to call you to ask but didn't have your number. It seems like a conversation-type question in that, when you explain each aspect of improv, it will make me think of new questions.

Hey!! It isn't suppertime yet.

With as late as I was up last night, this is called breakfast for me! Got to cut that out! But then, that is for a different subject...

Oh, I had to feed the cat also when checking the food in the microwave.

Without getting too bold here by me, please type in Clough Quad Cities in a search. You will understand, then...

Yes, it is the type of question and subject that could go on for quite some time.

I was hoping that maybe you might show up at the gig that was in Union. I do lots of improv with the group. But, it's mainly me that does the most improvisation. Bass player too, if so inclined. And, I don't know that I would call what our current drummer does as being improv.

As you can see, just my commenting about my doing improv with the group can potentially spark other questions, because you are asking about a whole group improvising together. It's not always the case with some groups. Some of what we do play in the Johnnie Kaye Orchestra is jazz, though.

I will be answering your question directly now in my next post.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I spent two hours on the phone last night talking with a NJ cyberfriend about "What is literature?" Lots of smart people out there..........

Oops, just one more before I really answer your question. Couldn't resist. Yes, I agree. There are a lot of really smart people out there! There's also some that would be awesome contributors to this site that aren't on here that might want to be involved with a site like this. I have encouraged some to be a part of this site. Part of the problem is, that they don't know how to type or their typing is incredibly slow! It's too bad... :(

I asked my court-ordered community service worker last night to explain improv to me. He plays acoustic guitar, especially classical music. Jeff said improv is like a conversation. The best conversations are with old friends. I also asked my literature converation partner last night, and he said improv is like dancing. The best experience in dancing is with a partner you know well and have danced with before.

OMG!! I could have called you when I got off the phone at to a.m. with my NJ friend!!

(My son attended Knox College. Does that give me points?)

(I guess he is busy cleaning out the litter box, carefully washing it, thoroughly drying it, and filling it with clean litter.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I was always warned by piano teachers to stick with the sheet music and don't veer off-course. I've been listening to improv jazz groups. Each time a song can be played differently, but it always sounds good. How does improv work? Who plays the melody and how does everyone in the group know? How does a member of the group (sax, drummer, bass, etc.) acquire the "spotlight" and do a solo? How does any one group member know if he should syncopate or trill or play the tune straight or whatever, since none of them play with sheet music? How do they keep the same rhythm?

Please explain to me how improv works.

Now, we've gone on enough that I have to quote your question in order to reference it.

It is best to stick with what is on the written page of music when first beginning to learn how to play. If the teacher teaches improvisation, then referencing the music (visual), is very important. To get into jazz improvisation you need to know chords and scales of various keys. You also need to know how a certain piece of music goes according to it's melody, rhythm and chord structure. Unfortunately, most teachers don't teach jazz improvisation or maybe any type of improvisation at all. You can improvise on any type of music. I teach improvisation for both jazz and other types of music. I could make you an instant blues player for free, Carol! Guaranteed results, or your money back! I have done this with all ages of people who have had no training on a keyboard or other type of band or orchestra instrument at all.

Back to question, was rambling just a bit. I have what I call, "Cerebral Drift." It's just a part of me. Helps greatly with my creativity when I improvise, though!

Improv between a number of players playing at the same time works, because the players know the melody and chord structure of the piece that they are playing. They play parts of chords and scales within the piece or tune if you will, in the case of jazz or other modern day popular styles of music, that have the same notes as the other players might have. Only, one individual does not play his or her notes in the same horizontal or vertical arrangement as the other people do at the same time. Neither is the rhythm the same as the other players notes. But, what is played sounds good because it is arranged in such a way that it is enjoyable because of mutually accepted ways that it is enjoyable.

I hope that this is making sense, because it's really hard to answer. So much of what improvisers do is based upon what they feel and are inspired to do. There is also a lot of mathematical type thinking going on in terms of "if this, then therefore that." It's kind of like trying to define the word "love" or why you might "like" something.

There is also the aspect of melody and accompaniment to be discussed concerning improvisation. But, discussion on that can be done in other posts.

Jazz musicians know when someone is to have a solo because usually there is one of the members of the group who is calling the shots as to whom or what to do to the other members of the group by means of hand signals. These are not usually noticed by an audience. Also, when and where someone plays a solo may have already been pre-arranged in a rehearsal.

That is my short answer to your original post. I hope that it is helpful to you! Your question as to how improv works is a really tough one to answer in just words. To actually demonstrate it to you with musical instruments would be much easier! :)

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

(I guess he is busy cleaning out the litter box, carefully washing it, thoroughly drying it, and filling it with clean litter.)

Thanks for your advice! ;)

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I asked my court-ordered community service worker last night to explain improv to me. He plays acoustic guitar, especially classical music. Jeff said improv is like a conversation. The best conversations are with old friends. I also asked my literature converation partner last night, and he said improv is like dancing. The best experience in dancing is with a partner you know well and have danced with before.

Yes, improvisation is like having a conversation and dancing. It's also like making love, writing a letter, drawing and/or painting a visual work of art, walking, caring about others, etc. It can even involve having an argument, musically! Improvisation is communication through and with the utilization of music!

Jeff, my library comm svc worker, had also mentioned that he has started to teach his young daughter how to improvise. He used "Jingle Bells" in the key of C, which she knows by heart, and then strummed the melody on his guitar while he advised her to stay on the white keys and try various things like trills and turns and other ornamentation. Jeff said his wife came in from another part of the house and was astounded at the music the two of them were making.

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Originally Posted by Clough

Yes, improvisation is like having a conversation and dancing. It's also like making love, writing a letter, drawing and/or painting a visual work of art, walking, caring about others, etc. It can even involve having an argument, musically! Improvisation is communication through and with the utilization of music!

That means improv is also like a good counseling session with a long-time client!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

That means improv is also like a good counseling session with a long-time client!

Exactly! It helps to have played along with others who have been speaking the same language in music for some time in order to make the best music!

Can a trio of strangers who play keyboard, drum, and bass improvise right off the bat?

Yes, if they know how to improvise and are in agreement as to the beat, rhythm and chords that will be used. Melody and chords kind of become interchangeable in definition when you are improvising. The improvisation doesn't have to even be based upon a known and established piece of music.

Would you now like an example of how to improvise? Say, in a very simple form and being explained so in written word?

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Originally Posted by Clough

Would you now like an example of how to improvise? Say, in a very simple form and being explained so in written word?

YES!! What has taken you so long?? (You can use big "music" words.)

Hi, Wondergirl!

How much do you know how to play on the piano? Please list some pieces that you play, if you do play?

I'm at 46 Private Messages by-the-way. I like to save some in draft folders. It takes me time to do that. Just a hint... ;)

Also, when typing by-the-way as I do, should I or should I not be hyphenating? Or, does it not matter?

I am still waiting for an answer. :) If I can manage three threads at the same time, I am sure that you can, because you have super powers! That's why they call you "Wondergirl!"

Lolololol I just had to clean out my message folders to make room for new messages.

I don't own a piano (or a horse) so I don't play much anymore. I got into etudes and other nasty stuff when I used to play. I understand music theory. I used to be good enough to play the organ as an occasional sub for church services. I can play anything out of the Lutheran Hymnal!

Hyphens are not needed.

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Originally Posted by Clough

That's why they call you "Wondergirl!"

No, I'm Wondergirl because I wonder a lot.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

lolololol I just had to clean out my message folders to make room for new messages.

I don't own a piano (or a horse) so I don't play much anymore. I got into etudes and other nasty stuff when I used to play. I understand music theory. I used to be good enough to play the organ as an occasional sub for church services. I can play anything out of the Lutheran Hymnal!!

Hyphens are not needed.

Finally, an answer! Gosh darn it! Can't take you anywhere! :p

What etudes, please? The composers? I'm trying to get a feel as to what you know.

Did you play the pedals on the organ? Which Lutheran Hymnal? There's at least three ones that have been published fairly recently in currect use. Did you play the pedal clavier on the hymns using the bass line as written for the hymns? Not really a repeat about the pedals. I had learned how to "chord" on the hymns when I first started playing for churches.

Etudes - Chopin. I hated him.

Yes, I played the pedals on the organ, but barely. No, I didn't "chord" with the pedals. I played out of the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal that used to be used by the Missouri-Synod gang.

I may go insane tonight. I'm too old for this hyper activity.

Am going to work on mailbox for about two minutes here...

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Etudes - Chopin. I hated him.

Yes, I played the pedals on the organ, but barely. No, I didn't "chord" with the pedals. I played out of the 1941 Lutheran Hymnal that used to be used by the Missouri-Synod gang.

I may go insane tonight. I'm too old for this hyper activity.

Why did you hate Chopin? He's one of my favorites!

Oh noooooooooooooom another place I have to post!!

Probably hated him because I hated my piano teacher.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Probably hated him because I hated my piano teacher.

I am sorry to hear that! The teacher does make a great difference in how you feel and think! If you ever do call me, I will play you some Chopin. But, lets get on with the improvisation side of things first, since that is what this thread is about.

You seem to be doing just fine with the YM post and very intertwined with it. MC appears to be gone.

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Originally Posted by Clough

You seem to be doing just fine with the YM post and very intertwined with it. MC appears to be gone.

I'm getting 8 million PMs too from him. Good thing I have nimble fingers and am a fantastically fast typist...

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm getting 8 million PMs too from him. Good thing I have nimble fingers and am a fantastically fast typist................

Good thing for you! Why don't you just give him your real email address as well! ;) :) :eek:

I'm thinking about it, but not yet. He seems like a really nice guy, but you never know. Those axe murderers lurk in the most unexpected places.

Things are calming down now. I did my wonderful Wondergirl thing. Ha ha.

So do you have a sense of me and music? Or are you totally lost?

I know what a descant is and a riff.

Do you know what jamming is compared to improv?

And no, I'm not totally lost. Just trying to find where you are. You are somewhere out there. I am here. So, who is lost?

OMG! You're still private messaging! What did they do? Give you a limit of 500 PM's to be stored here?