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I've suffered from depression for 4years and its getting to the stage of not coping! There are many causes of this and seeing a counselor didn't seem to help. Anti-depressants just seem to mask the symptoms, any suggestions? Please help can't cope anymore?
If you are getting a prescription from a doctor, tell him or her this isn't working. If you are seeing a therapist, tell him or her this isn't working. They have a right to know and as a patient you have an obligation to tell. It can mean you need to "shop around" for the right drug (that is a very common experience) or that you aren't getting to the bottom of it in therapy. Depression can literally be a fight for your life, I know firsthand. If you aren't in anyone's care, make immediate arrangements to go back and this time be very candid. There is no magic fix out here in the world. But there is lots of help. Don't be one of the people who dies of "terminal uniqueness" - I have seen a bunch of that and its always very sad. This is no joke. Please let the help help you, okay?
This will help you:
http://www.cathedraluniversity.com/d...Depression.pdf
Don't be one of the people who dies of "terminal uniqueness"-Val, what is this? You got me kind of worried...Quote:
Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
What I mean by that is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Depressed in MO
Depression kills by way of suicide. I have had something like a front row seat to more than a few suicides (including two attempts of my own). One of the most deadly ideas is "I am beyond help... I am so unique that no solution exists out there for me". I am hoping I don't hear subtle tones of it in the original post but if I am, I am gently, lovingly calling it out with that remark about terminal uniqueness. This thinking often exists in someone close to suicide and it needs to be gently challenged and reframed, if possible.
Does that make it clearer for you?
Do you believe people can suffer illnesses or even die from a broken heart?Quote:
Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
Of course! I believe the human is a very complicated, interconnected physical, emotional and spiritual being. I like the holistic approach best. I am a big fan (and consumer) of psychological and spiritual help too. I tend to "collect" medical people who have great spiritual hearts and see themselves as healers. I also think that our current culture in the US places far too much importance on the physical at the expense of the psychological and spiritual side of humans. And we are all paying a price for that too. As a result of that, some ailments (depression is one) sometimes don't get treated consistently. So it bears looking around, getting second opinions, etc.
If Please Help Me doesn't get help one way, they can try another. But it has to start with letting the current ones know its not helping, to be fair about it.
Okay, steps down from the soapbox now LOL :o
I once went to a counselor who said a way of getting rid of your worries and depression is to write yourself a letter about every thing that is worrying you. Write down absolutely everything. Get everything right out of your system. Then get a match and burn the letter.Imagine in your mind that Every puff of smoke that comes from the letter you are burning is the problem dispearing in the air. Another trick is to write a letter again rap it up around a medium sized stone go to a lake or pond and throw the letter rapped in the stone in the pond the ripples you make in the water are your problems evaporating. Another good thing is to look in the mirror each morning and tell yourself you love yourself, that you are beautiful cleaver, kind,honest. You keep doing that you will start to believe in yourself. The depression will lift and nobody can ever make you feel low. Because if you don't love yourself who will.;)
Thank you all for your help and advice, it really is appreciated. The counselling was advised by my 6th Form College tutor, however now I have finished college and the sessions have ended.
You said you have suffered from depression for 4 years. Did you ever have depression before that? What triggered it 4 years ago? I felt I needed counseling several years ago and I went to 3 different ones that I felt "flat" with and then I found one that I connected with.
Val is so right, different medication, different therapists. Stay on top of it. Go to the book store, there are so many books there on depression, thumb through them and find a good one for you. There are many tools out there, but if you feel you cannot do it alone, get help.
Thank you for your advice Cassie, I will definitely go and look in bookshops. 4years ago I was raped by a 'friend', this triggered off memories of when I was sexually abused as a child for 7years (approx). All the old memories and feelings came back as well as the different ones. It's like a video playing over and over in my head, I can't seem to concentrate, as its in my head all the time.
What you are describing could easily be PTSD - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and it takes professional treatment to ease the many symptoms - depression, freight train brain, hyper vigilency, heightened startle response, low ability to trust, poor sleeping etc. Please seek out a professional through a rape hotline or a social service like that. It would do you a world of good to get help.
Depression is medical condition. It can be treated with medication. If you had diabetes you wouldn't ask others for help or go to the bookstore to find some relief there- you would take insulin. Period. The same is true here (in my opinion). Find a Dr. who understands the subject, and who will work with you to find the correct med (or meds) to get you functioning at close to 100% again.
I am so sorry for all that happened to you. My babysitter from years back was raped by her step father for several years. I am so glad you are open to seeking counseling. It is a must. Good Luck.
I certainly, by no means meant for you to replace therapy with books. I have found in life knowledge is a valuable tool. I have found it can be an added plus with therapy.
When my mother was diagnosed with diabetes along with medical help, I found all the information I could about diabetes in books and it enabled me to help her. I found information from other diabetics that was very helpful. No it did not replace the medical help she had but knowledge is never wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Here_To_Help- Jon
I agree that you still need professional therapy.
But also I agree with txgreasemonkey's excellent link in addition to the therapy.
Give it to God. You'll be able to see the miracles from prayer in your life. And you will be genuinely happy about the changes.
Everybody has mentioned really good pointers, but I will also like to add that with a good healthy balanced diet, if you are eating well on the inside it shows both mentally and physcially on the outside. Val I agree with you what I mentioned earlier in this thread might be more suited at the latter stages of recovery. But still it is a vital point, strong mental believe in one self strenghthens both body and mind.
I'm having trouble understanding what God is trying to say to me, Is it turn the other cheek? Or turn the tables over? Again, thank you for your advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
As Here to help-John has stated depression is a medical condition that needs to be treated medically.
But I disagree that antidepressant medication is necessarily the route to take.
Most people believe that if you treat something "medically" it is necessarily by drugs. However studies have shown that only about 40% of patients get some befit from SSRIs, leaving 60% with treatment resistant depression.
The reason is that not many doctors, psychiatrists or psychologists are aware of how the body produces serotonin, the feel good neurotransmitter that can make us feel happy and content.
Serotonin is produced from amino acids found in food, and hence this would indicate that depression can be a nutritional disorder.
But for the body to produce serotonin it would need far more than just tryptophan from which serotonin is made. It needs a host of other vitamins and minerals to assemble serotonin from the food we eat.
The body requires an inordinate amount of Biological Energy called (ATP) without which the body cannot manufacture the feel good neurotransmitters.
Thus people who have problems converting the sugars in food into biological energy are most likely to suffer from depression.
Viewed from a biochemical point of view, depression is not a disease of the mind, but rather a disease of the body.
Please read:
Depression: a Disease of Energy Production
And discuss this with a Nutritional Doctor or Clinical Nutritionist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
If this is PTSD it can be treated nutritionally.
I think what was trying to be said was that if you leave all your troubles, thoughts and worries to God. That you pray daily and read and meditate daily. That each day it will get easier and easier. Leaving all your troubles to God and letting him handle it for you will lift away your burdons from your shoulders. It is up to God to punish others. It is up to God to judge others. Let him be the judge and you will be able to move on and live a happier life. Rape is a very tramatic experience and causes so much emotional and physical damage. It is up to you to let that experience control you or actually get past that experience in a positive way and even helping others through the experiances like yours would be healing to both your mind, spirit and body.
Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurplesman
While sound nutrition is an essential part of it (I have been on the diet you are suggesting, Jurplesman) I don't believe it is the" do all-end all" to mental illness such as PTSD any more than drugs are (especially anti-depressants). Those kinds of expectations are totally unrealistic from what I have experienced firsthand and witnessed in many others. This is not to say they don't help, but the help may not be enough or sustainable without more help.Quote:
Cassie agrees: great article, I have known 4 people in the last year that committed suicide and was on anti-depressants, that certainly says something.
It takes getting to the "engine" mentally, emotionally and psychologically as well... which is often hard work that some people aren't willing to do these days and insurance companies (and some doctors) aren't keen on either. So the failures and suicides prevail (that may explain your friends Cassie) and we blame whatever half baked approach was used. That is bad science in my book. I can say with personal conviction that if I had not taken a multiple strategy approach to the severe PTSD I have, I would not have experienced nearly as much recovery.
As humorous as this will sound, LOL... I resemble a normal person most of the time, am presently off any psychotropic drugs and so have fulfilled the words of my first PTSD therapist in the "100% remission is as good as a cure". There have been many good posts here on this thread and the thing is, if you really WANT to get well, you'll use anything and everything you can find - prayer, nutrition, drugs, therapy, etc - until something or combination works for you. Anything less is playing games, especially the "Victim Game" which runs rampant in the mental illness arena. But if you don't really want to get well (and from what I've seen, mostly because that means taking responsibility for yourself), nothing will work well enough. That is the truth as I see it demonstrated in the world again and again.
This is the kind of statement that is not very helpful for people suffering from mental illness. Science works by by setting up an hypothesis and testing the hypothesis and then applying it to cases in the real world. I know it is popular to believe that mental illness is 'multifactorial', but this nearly always means that the experts simply disagree as to what causes depression. It does not follow from this that it MUST be multifactorial. Most 'experts' do not know what causes depression because it is said to be endogenous.Quote:
Originally Posted by valinorss_sorrow
It is not good enough to say that depression may be caused by X,Y,Z and the rest of the alphabet. We need specific causes! That is why we have scientific method.
You say that nutrition is not the "do all and end all" to mental illness. But what proof do you have to this statement. Have you read the article:
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and Hypoglycemia
If you disagree then tell what do you disagree with? What alternative scientific explanation do you have for PTSD?
Fortunately there are explanations for most forms of mental illness but the reasons are outside the square box from which most people operate.
Having worked as a nutritional psychotherapist for many years I know that most forms of brain disorders can be treated quite successfully by nutritional means.
Please read:
Hypoglycemia is it a Cure-all for Mental Illness?
Thus we seem to disagree in the sense that I see a definite etiology in mental illness, whereas you seems to see it as a 'multifaceted' problem.
And on the flip side what proof do you have that nutrition IS?Quote:
Originally Posted by jurplesman
Although I do not begrudge you for your beliefs and ideas, I feel that is not prudent to suggest a specific diet as a " cure" for almost every health issue, be it mental or physical. This seems to be your only advice. Your "cure all end all."
Diet is NOT the cure-all for almost every health issue, be it mental or physical, but it certainly is for many forms of mental illness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormy69
In fact, conventional therapy for mental illness will have us believe that the drugs and/or psychotherapy model is is "cure all and all" for mental illness. It is too simplistic. I believe that this attitude is responsible for the significant failure rate in treatment in the mental health industry. Most of our mental patients finish up in jail. I am just adding another dimension to the problem.
For more references see here.
Maybe most of the mental patients in Australia, where you are, end up in jail. But I hold to the belief that while the diet is good in itself, it is not a cure all. If that were the case then many who suffer from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or maybe even multiple personality disorder would be treated with this diet rather than medications along with diet.
Is this also a cure for OCD?
What about diabetics with depression?
I have already laid out what proof I have: my firsthand experience and yes, I have read the articles, actually I read some of that information from other sources long ago. I can state unequivocally that nutrition alone did not solve the problems I had with PTSD. I tried many many things as well and it ultimately required a multiple solution approach with an emphasis on getting to the core of it psychologically, as I already stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by jurplesman
I could go into a long discourse here on what caused the PTSD in me and why I think it did, but that would be highjacking this thread, which is a rude thing so at this point I think enough has been said here. Look, we are supposed to be answering the concerns of the originally posted question and any debate needs to be a new thread in Member Discussions, okay?
My experience is working with literally thousands of treatment resistance mentally ill people in the Corrective Services Department of NSW. It is well documented that about 75% of prisoners have an addiction problem as a comorbid condition of their offences. Addiction is a mental illness. Other non-addicted prisoners are usually typically depressed, people who commit fairly serious offences such bank robberies, rape, people with uncontrollable violence and so forth. Gambling addiction have led some people to steal huge amounts of money from employers. People with Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder form an other percentage of prisoners. Schizophrenic and Bipolar people generally cannot always be helped with nutritional therapy alone, but most do benefit from the hypoglycemic diet. Nutritional therapy helps reduce many of the side effects of psychotropic drugs. For details please consult:Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Werbach,M.R.(1991), NUTRITIONAL INFLUENCES ON MENTAL ILLNESS, A Sourcebook of Clinical Research, Third Line Pres, Inc.Tarzana. Cal.
I consider Multiple Personality Disorder a phantom diagnosis. It is better to call it Personality Disorder, which usually involves a metabolic disorder.
You will find that if you test people with mental illness (a misnomer BTW) with the four hour Medical Test for Hypoglycemia, that about 90% will be found to be hypoglycemic.
Another worthwhile test that can be used by non-medical people is the Nutrition Behavior Inventory Test (NBI) . If you score high you are likely to be hypoglycemic. This can also be confirmed with the medical test.
Most conventional doctors are not familiar with this medical test, because most doctors test for diabetes with a single hemoglobin A1C test.
The understand the connection between depression and hypoglycemia, one need to understand that hypoglycemia is one form of prediabetic Insulin Resistance.
A proportion of people tested with the hypoglycemic test may show "normal" blood sugar levels and yet have hypoglycemic symptoms. This is due to an imbalance between zinc and copper levels. This is type 6 hypoglycemia (or cerebral hypoglycia). (See here).
Here the obstruction in sugar metabolism occurs within the mitochondria right within the ten step glycolysis.
Most depressions occurring among diabetics have the same etiology as those with prediabetic insulin resistance (hypoglycemics). It is the insulin resistance causing depression. The association between insulin resistance and depression is shown in many studies.
Depression and Insulin Resistance.
The question naturally asked is how can hypoglycemia or insulin resistance cause depression and many of the other "mental illnesses"?
The reason is that for the body to manufacture the feel good neurotransmitters like serotonin, it needs an inordinate amount of Biological Energy called (ATP). Without that energy the body cannot produce the feel good hormones that can make us feel happy and content when we normally should.
Since ATP is derived form the sugars we eat, it is no wonder why the hypoglycemic diet can be a virtual "cure all" for mental illness. This diet needs to be adjusted to the individual nutritional biochemistry of the person with the help of a Nutritional Doctor or a Clinical Nutritionist. Just being on a "healthy diet" is not good enough.
Of course it should be realized that there are many other biological reasons the body cannot produce serotonin, because of an untold medical conditions that also contribute to depression. Most of these medical conditions relate to the digestive system, interfering with nutrient absorption which is the source of our neurotransmitters.
As to OCD, this too is one of the testable symptoms of the hypoglycemic syndrome. In OCD we have an overproduction of adrenaline that sets in motion the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) with its varied physiological symptoms. Adrenaline is not only the hormone of fight and flight but also a focusing hormone, forcing us to focus on the "enemy". It can cause us to ruminate, have "racing minds", to have compulsive thoughts, rituals and this is very hard to control by conscious cognitions. Hence talk therapy is usually ineffective to eradicate this illness.
Knowledge of Nutritional Biochemistry will add a very effective weapon in the hands of therapists dealing with mental illness.
Ditto Nasra. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Please, please follow-up on changing your prescription. Remember it takes approximately 6 weeks for you to begin the initial effects of the meds. Some side-effects do suck, but sometimes are necessary.
Please take care and keep us up-to-date.
People here seem to be so enamored with conventional medicine and psychology, that they have to stoop to personal attacks on my integrity and sincerity. The views expressed here seem to be one-eyed and biased by people with blinkers on and with a particular ideology.
Please show me where I get any financial interest from my "promotional stint" and "his ad for his book", when all the information I give is completely free of charge. Tell me if anybody has ever paid any money for reading my book or for information given? And then tell me whose financial interests YOU are serving?
But please let me also know what sponsorship you seem to receive from the medico/pharmaceutical industry (or any other interest group) enabling you to attack a poster here because he expresses an opinion that is not in the commercial interest of medico/pharmaceutical industry or of YOUR particular interest.
Thus this discussion board may be very disappointing to anybody seeking any self-help "alternative approaches" to outdated, ineffective, conventional, expensive treatment modalities dating back to the last century. This leave so many people suffering from "treatment resistant" mental illness due to widespread IGNORANCE about the real causes of mental illness, as exemplified by some posters here.
It also shows that progress and reform for the treatment of mental illness is not merely a scientific matter, but one of economics - threatening the financial interests of the profit driven psycho/medical industrial complex - and of politics, the financial power behind psycho-medical propaganda
Please see the announcement on this board and the rules link at the bottom of every page.
This is sound advice.
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