Okay,
So my ex girlfriends ex boyfriend is suicidal. We will call the girlfriend 'Mary' and her ex boyfriend 'John,' and myslef 'Joe.'

Mary went out with John for 4 months. John loved Mary, to the point he was infatuated with her. However, Mary didn't feel that way about John. John is 21, Mary is 16, and I am 16 as well. John, being 21, wants marriage, kids, and a family life. Mary, being 16, just wants a little fun, and someone to trust and support her. Maybe a high school sweetheart. I met Mary at school, and we became good friends quickly. I found out one day that she broke up with John. 2 weeks later, me and Mary were dating. Please note that I didn't ask for her to break up with him, she did it by her choice. So we went out for 2 weeks, then she dumped me. In a short version, John tried to kill himself when he figured out that Mary and I were dating. She wanted a break, which I completely agreed with, considering someone could die over our relationship...

So we are still good friends, and she talks to me about John.

John says that if Mary doesn't go back to him, then he will kill himself. John is really giving her no choice here. He even set up rules:
Some are: Mary can't break up with him, Mary can't be creeped out when John talks about kids and marriage, and things like that. She is going to agree, so the guy doesn't kill himself.
She plans to be a b**ch to him so that he dumps her. This will hopefully solve the problem. And make him stop loving her.

I should also mention that John was in counseling for suicidal thoughts before, and he recently stopped the meetings. He has been mentally evaluated, and they say he needs more counseling. He obviously does.

But what do you guys think I and Mary should do here? Is the plan to make John fall out of love with Mary a good one?

What are your opinions on this plan, and do you have any alternative ideas?
Thanks

This is really a Shakespearian situation, full of tragedy.

I think you and "Mary" need to talk to a responsible adult about this matter. Good luck to all concerned. :)

About the plan... not a good idea.
It could backfire, he could end up hurting Mary as well as himself...
He could even end up hurting you too, since you knew about the plan...

I believe Mary should tell her parents!

I agree tell the parents and stay away. She doesn't need this much pressure for her age. Try and convince him that he need to carry on the counselling before any relationship continue. (friendship or new relationship). The ex really needs the counselling before he hurts himself again or anyone else. Really not a good idea about the second plan. If he really loves he nothing will make stop loving her apart from him. If he carrys on with the counselling that might him get this infactuation.

Mary doesn't have very good parents. She hasent talked to her father in 4 years, and she lives with him...

Just the other day, Mary had an accident in construction tech (a class). She cut her thumb, really bad, to the bone. Needed several stiches, and emergency treatment. Luckily the hospital is right across the road from our school, so we walked there and got her treatment. (We live in Canada, so no issues with insurance). But her father refused to see her at the hospital. I told him what happened over the phone, he grunted and hung up. The mother didn't do anything either. She has a really bad home life, and I don't think her parents would care about the suicidal ex. Not to mention her parents don't like him anyway... parents don't like it when their 16 year old daughter dates a 21 guy.
So yeah, the mother and father aren't an option here.

But, we have talked to Johns best friend, and he is going to try and convince him that he needs counseling.

And AKeaTrue, do you mean hurt physically? I have thought about that... if he is willing to kill himself, he is in a "nothing to lose" state right now. What's to stop him from hurting us? That really worries me. And the fact that she spends a lot of time with him, and trusts him worries me too.

And Mary really wants to be his friend, they knew each other since birth, and only dated recently. When they broke up, Mary wanted to go back to being friends. Obviously, John had other plans.
I have known Mary for a few months, and I don't think its my place to say to her, "don't talk to him or see him anymore." or "stay away from him."

I see you point to the stay away thing but I was thinking more for her own good than his. It's a real shame about her parents I personally can't understand why anyone could be less concerned for a daughter. That to me is wrong in the first place I have 4 children and I couldn't do that, but back to the subject. If her parents won't help who else is there that he might listen to? You mentioned a friend but in some cases he might need someone different to tell him. Another way is just be a friend if he knows that nothing is going to happen between them then he might just might accept it and move on, and still stay friends with mary. Does that make sense?

I don't understand her parents either... The first day she met my parents (which are great, supportive, parents) she was surprised when they acknowledged her existence. She said "hi sir" to my dad, and my dad said, "Hi, and call me cam" (his name). The look on her face was just confusion. How could parents be so nice?

But, back to the suicidal ex, sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying...
Thanks Sandra for the help. If you could just restate that last piece of advice, I would really appreciate it.

Mary, just needs to stop seeing him, If he wanted to kill hisself he would be dead by now, If she is really worried, call the police, which I think she should anyway, and if he keeps trying to contact her, keep calling the police on him.

Mary needs to worry about Mary, is is not liable for this nut case and he should be the least of her worries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrsg

Mary doesn't have very good parents. She hasent talked to her father in 4 years, and she lives with him...

Just the other day, Mary had an accident in construction tech (a class). She cut her thumb, really bad, to the bone. Needed several stiches, and emergency treatment. Luckily the hospital is right across the road from our school, so we walked there and got her treatment. (We live in Canada, so no issues with insurance). But her father refused to see her at the hospital. I told him what happened over the phone, he grunted and hung up. The mother didn't do anything either. She has a really bad home life, and I don't think her parents would care about the suicidal ex. Not to mention her parents don't like him anyway... parents don't like it when their 16 year old daughter dates a 21 guy.
So yeah, the mother and father aren't an option here.

But, we have talked to Johns best friend, and he is going to try and convince him that he needs counseling.

And AKeaTrue, do you mean hurt physically? I have thought about that... if he is willing to kill himself, he is in a "nothing to lose" state right now. Whats to stop him from hurting us? That really worries me. And the fact that she spends a lot of time with him, and trusts him worries me too.

And Mary really wants to be his friend, they knew eachother since birth, and only dated recently. When they broke up, Mary wanted to go back to being friends. Obviously, John had other plans.
I have known Mary for a few months, and I don't think its my place to say to her, "don't talk to him or see him anymore." or "stay away from him."

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Yes, I'm referring to him physically hurting the both of you.
Mary's parents don't approve of the relationship, therefore they might be inclined to do something about how bothersome the guy is being with his threats.
She should tell them and they should call the police.
And you, you've only known her for a few months, not to late to get the heck away from all the drama.

That is true... I'll talk to her about telling her parents, and contacting some kind of authority. There is definitely a need for outside help. And I could get away from the drama, but if something happened to Mary, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for not doing everything in my power to solve the problem.
However, I live a pretty isolated life when it comes to John, and he knows nothing about where I live, etc.

I think I will stay in the situation, which may not be the smartest decision, but the alternative of Mary getting hurt is not an opiton to me. I need to do what I can here.

Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it... I really need to talk to Mary.

Can you go to your parents with this problem? This is way too much for two 40 year olds to handle let alone two 16 year olds. You must get a trusted adult involved. A teacher or doctor you trust, even your veterinarian for that matter! Mary and you both need to be protected from John. He may seem harmless but he is unstable right now and that is not predictable. Mary being a b*&^h may provoke unplanned results that could be dangerous. She is not capable of helping him at this point. Thinking that she can is not in his, hers or your best interest. The rules he expects her to follow shows how from reality he really is--marriage and children with a 16 yr old!?

Hi just to clear things up if Mary only stays friends with john and nothing more then he might realise that she doesn't want him in boyfriend way. John needs someone more adult or with some authority to take charge of him. I think you are a true person and certainly very grown up for your age. I think you are doing a very brave thing and I wish you the best of luck. I agree with fr-chunck if was going to do anything he would have done. Have you told you parents?

Thanks Sandra6,
And in my opinion, this guy is crazy, and as shelly said, far from reality. It is hard for her to avoid him though. They attend the same church, he lives in her neighbourhood, Mary's best friend is also Johns best friend, John calls and texts Mary every hour...

But the thing is, is that Mary and John have known each other since birth. John has always been a family friend, and they dated only recently (had been friends before). So, Mary doesn't want to ruin this friendship, and has tried to stay friends. Apparently, John practically won't accept anything less than marriage..? He is ruining any relationship they could have.

Anyway, I will be talking to her on Monday about what she should do. If she disagrees, should I take control myself? And do something myself?

This is really tough. I would see what your parents thought. John in time will have to accept it because I think it will ruin the friendship. You could also go and see your doctor and ask him what could be done. He is going to damage Mary mentally if things are not sorted out quickly. Talk to Mary and ask her to convince John to go back to counselling, I would say at the moment that's all you can do. Let me know how things go. Good luck.

I'll have the talk tomorrow at school, over lunch or something. I'll let you know tomorrow, thanks for the advice.

First of all, Thank you to all of you who helped me, especially you Sandra6.

Now, Update Time!!!
A good day today... I am in a great mood (if you can't already tell).

Today, I talked to her about her plan. She agreed it wasn't going to work. She says that she is willing to let him go altogether, even as a friend. She now just ignores him, and he is doing better too. So he is basically out of her life now.

He didn't even try to contact her this weekend! That is very uncommon for him. So I think he is accepting the fact that she is gone.

So situation is over. I still haven't talked to her or anybody else about getting him more help, but I will be sure to. From what I understand, he is going to get help from the local church.

And I have to admit, that I still like her myself, in a girlfriend way... But that is a whole other thread for the "relationship" section of askme. But, mental health wise, is me getting back with Mary okay on John? I could see how me dating Mary could bring back all these memories of him being with her. But I want her, and I think she needs to get on with her life too...

So to where to go now? I thnk it is all over, but how to say for sure? What do you think, is the problem over?
Is it okay for me to ask Mary try our relationship again? (And I mean this emotionally, as in is it a good idea for her, and will John be okay.) I don't want to screw up Mary's life anymore than it already is.

Hello me again I REALLY pleased things are going well for Mary and yourself. Good on Mary for realising its not going to work. He needs help and if the church can help better than authority then good. But if in time it doesn't then he will have to see someone more qualified. He sounds like he is accepting things but take one step at a time he is still unpredicatiable. As for you getting back with Mary, in time I think it will be a great idea, but at this moment in time I would say its too soon. Stay the best of friends. Be careful with asking her for a relationship because she just getting over the events with John. She might even think you have only been her friend to get back with her. I'm not saying you are like that or she is but be careful. Like I said before John is not out of the woods yet and he is unpredictable. Give it time and things will develop naturally don't rush things. Remember both of you are young and enjoy yourselves.

Yeah, Mary has been really good through most of this...

And I guess I should leave her be for now. And I am completely happy just being friends with her.
And I was thinking, and I will at least wait until John is more mentally stable. I love her, but I think me asking to get back together right now is a little much for her. I'll give her a rest, lol. She has put up with a lot of sh*t in the past few weeks.

She also told me that one of her other ex's had recently (this weekend) asked her back. She turned him down. What do I make of this? Anything? Take it as a hint that she is not ready for another relationship yet?

I hate it when I analyze things like this, am I overanalyzing things?

I think I have to post a couple questions on the 'relationship' board.

I also overanalyze things but I think you are a little but I think she is interested in you but not just yet. I would say she wasn't interested in him anyway. Like I said take your time. She and you have been through some poo lol but for both of you to come through it together and happy that says a lot.

I'd just cut ties with your ex "Mary" and just say you don't want the drama of this old ex of hers in your life. She needs to stand up to him and tell him it's over, tell his parents he needs counselling or something and completely stop contacting him.

However "Mary" probably knows this and is unable or unwilling to cut ties with this guy... get them BOTH out of your life.

I'm sorry lowtax4eva but I disagree if it wasn't for Jay Mary wouldn't have had anyone to help her through this ordeal. He is a true friend to her and you don't find them much these days.

Thanks for the advice lowtax4eva, but I disagree as well. I think her friendship is worth the drama in her life. And thanks Sandra6, for saying that I was a "true friend" to Mary. Its nice to hear that.

Anyway, I think she is interested in me too. The reason she broke up is because she didn't want me in the midde of all the John stuff. She said she still liked me, but didn't want me to have to deal with all the stress and b.s with John. I kind of did stay in the situation though (voluntarily), and played a supporting role to her. I'll wait for things to calm down, and see what happens.

But, once all the John stuff is over for sure , I will see if we can go on as boyfriend/girlfriend.

I have made the decision to ask her for us to get back together. Of course I won't do it until all the dust has settled. I will ask when I think things are right. Could be days, weeks, who knows. If she wants to just be friends, I'm fine with that too. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for all the help Sandra6. :)

Your welcome Jay and good luck keep in touch, let me know how things work out.

Will do.
But, it may take a while... I don't know how long it will take to get things back on track for her and John.

But I will update!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sandra6

i'm sorry lowtax4eva but i disagree if it wasn't for Jay Mary wouldn't have had anyone to help her through this ordeal. He is a true friend to her and you don't find them much these days.

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Lowtax is on the right track. Jay & Mary are only 16 and should be planning parties and having fun. Instead they are involved with an unstable man. If Mary won't cut the ties with him then maybe Jay should protect himself. Especially if they go through the many other steps suggested and she still holds on to this man (as friends or boyfriend--it doesn't sound like he understands the difference) then what is Jay to do? Spend his entire life trying to protect this girl from this creep?

I know what you are saying but Mary has already decided not to be friends with John anymore. That way he can get help. Jay and Mary can now get on with being happy and have fun that they both deserve.

Yeah, I'm not sure if Shellyjo68 or lowtax4eva had read the whole thread... and if they have, they don't understand the situation here. Thank you for wanting to help, but help is no longer needed.

We have already covered that
-Mary is ignoring Johns attempts to contact her (although he hasn't tried lately)
-Mary has basically said that John is not even a friend any longer, not after what has happened.
-John is getting help from the church, he has agreed to go back into counseling if necessary

So, what I see here is that THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED! I mean, this isn't a discussion anymore...

Mary and me are fine. John is getting help. Mary and John don't see each other anymore. There is no more problem!

Please read the whole thread, and see that decisions have been made, and ALL issues have been resolved!

I thank you for wanting to help, but the issue has been resolved.
Sandra6 understands what is happening here, and she has helped me solve the issue. The issue has been solved!

That's excatly what I thought. Keep in touch bye for now

Hey,
Well, I've got to a half update...

We (Mary and I) have a really good friendship going right now, and I am really happy, and she is as well. John has not contacted Mary in the past 4 days now! And he is still receiving help from the church.

I actually just got off the phone with Mary, she called to ask about homework. She is nervous about a presentation she has to do tomorrow. I told her she would be fine; not to worry. Things like that. Anyway, the friend relationship we have right now is great. Maybe it will lead to something more again...

(Here I go analyzing again) but the fact that she called for support makes me think she knows I am here for her, for support. That makes me feel really good. That when she needs a friend to talk to, and to comfort her, that she comes to me.

I have yet to talk to her about getting back together though, but I think I will still leave it a little longer.

I will continue to keep in touch, this was, as I said, a half update. :)

Thanks for the half update. How did Mary get on with the presentation. Glad your taking things little slower. I think when she is ready you will both be an amazing couple together. Really pleased things are going great for you both. Have you told Mary about what people have said here? Speak soon

She did okay with the presentation. Public speaking has never been one of her strengths, but she did pretty good.

And thanks for saying that you think one day we will make an amazing couple together someday... when things like that are said to me, it makes me want to keep going. Like the light at the end of the tunnel is getting closer.

You have been really great here, Sandra6. Even just a simple thing like asking how her presentation went shows that you care, and are really giving some thought to my situation. I know I have thanked you countless times before, but I'll do it again. Thank you

But what do you mean when you ask if have I told her about what people have said here? I would just like a little clarification there. Thanks

That's good I was never good at things like that either. Did you tell Mary you came on this site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sandra6

Did you tell Mary you came on this site.

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Should I? And why?

Something about me is that I am very quiet. I do whatever I can to keep myself from becoming vulnerable. I think me telling her that I came on this site asking for help will make me vulnerable. Maybe it sounds weird, but what if she says something like, "Thats creepy." Things like that really worry me.

But I am willing to put myself out there if you think it would help my situation.

No I was just wondering. It doesn't sound weird I think its lovely your finding out what you can to help her. No is not being vulnerable. Don't worry yourself. No leave things as they are. If they get worse then mention it to her and tell her to talk to me or us if she wants to. But at the moment keep it to yourself.

That's what I thought I should do, just leave it. Thanks, I will update you later on about what's happening.

Another update:
She said that she wants to spend more time outside of school. Maybe the seeds of a new relationship are being planted. I'm just going with the flow, and everything seems to be working out. Two possible futures: 1. We get back together as boyfriend/girlfriend. 2. We become good friends. BOTH GREAT! I couldn't be happier.

When we boke up at first, I was worried things were going to be awkward between us. Really, things are better than ever. She wants to see each other outside of school, which shows she at least wants friendship.

A good day today.

Hey things are really looking good for you. Take you own advice go with the flow and you can't go far wrong. Great to hear from you. It Does sound like things are moving the direction you would lke it to go in, which is brilliant. Thanks for the update. Speak soon

Got a bad and sad update for you today,
She went back to him, and decided to go through with her plan. I tried to convince her otherwise, but she made her decision. All I can do now is support her. I was pissed off, and said something along the lines of "Now you're going to have to go through all this again. Dump him twice." She knows she should have held her ground, but she didn't. And this is where we are, so all I can do is support her.

Yesterday, he tried to kill himself again.
But what my ex and I are wondering is why? She went back to him, and he is getting what he wants. I think it is because of a couple of arguments they had, but I didn't say that to her, basically saying this is all her fault. So, he is in the crisis unit at a hospital for the next while. The priest took him (he tried to kill himself in the chapel at the church) to the crisis unit as soon as he found him. They say that these are real attempts, and not just for attention. He popped all the pills in some bottle, and sat in the church, to be close to god when he died. If the priest didn't find him, then he would've died for sure.

So, a big step back.
But, she has decided now is a good time to dump him for good. She says she wants to do it when he is in the crisis unit, where he can get the help and support he will need. She is also going to make sure that his best friend is there to look after him.
I will be there for her in all this, and I will make sure she actually breaks with him for good.
She comes to me to talk, so I would like to know what to say to her?

And please note, that he hasn't demonstrated any violence towards anybody but himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrsg

Okay,
So my ex girlfriends ex boyfriend is suicidal. We will call the girlfriend 'Mary' and her ex boyfriend 'John,' and myslef 'Joe.'

Mary went out with John for 4 months. John loved Mary, to the point he was infatuated with her. However, Mary didn't feel that way about John. John is 21, Mary is 16, and I am 16 as well. John, being 21, wants marriage, kids, and a family life. Mary, being 16, just wants a little fun, and someone to trust and support her. Maybe a highschool sweetheart. I met Mary at school, and we became good friends quickly. I found out one day that she broke up with John. 2 weeks later, me and Mary were dating. Please note that I didn't ask for her to break up with him, she did it by her choice. So we went out for 2 weeks, then she dumped me. In a short version, John tried to kill himself when he figured out that Mary and I were dating. She wanted a break, which I completly agreed with, considering someone could die over our relationship...

So we are still good friends, and she talks to me about John.

John says that if Mary doesn't go back to him, then he will kill himself. John is really giving her no choice here. He even set up rules:
Some are: Mary can't break up with him, Mary can't be creeped out when John talks about kids and marriage, and things like that. She is going to agree, so the guy doesn't kill himself.
She plans to be a b**ch to him so that he dumps her. This will hopefully solve the problem. And make him stop loving her.

I should also mention that John was in counseling for suicidal thoughts before, and he recently stopped the meetings. He has been mentally evaluated, and they say he needs more counseling. He obviously does.

But what do you guys think I and Mary should do here? Is the plan to make John fall out of love with Mary a good one?

What are your opinions on this plan, and do you have any alternative ideas?
Thanks

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I think mary needs to break it off with this guy if she really doesn't want to be with him don't play games with his feelings she may need to get a restraining order cause he may try to harm her or even worse u

OKAY!
FULL, GOOD UPDATE!

First, Mary broke things off completely with John.
John left the church, which means No contact between them AT ALL
AND...
Me and Mary are back together!

Hopefully for a lot longer than 2 weeks this time... lol.

I am the happiest person on the earth right now.

Thanks you guys, especially Sandra6, for all the help and advice. I couldn't have done it without you.

Thanks again!