My sister is now in her thirties. She has suffered from depression, anxiety, and other issues since she was in high school. She is extremely intelligent, artistic and book smart but has difficulty dealing with day to day issues. She has never been diagnosed and doesn't stick with traditional therapy or medication. She is so well read on antidepressants, that she refuses to take them based on their possible side effects. She tried to committ suicide a few years ago and for awhile after she was OK. She cannot keep or make friends, make decisions, hold a job, decide where to live or what to do and is basically immobilized. She overanalyzes situations to the point of becoming overly sensitive to anxious, to downright depressed. She is married but not happily. She has a two year old and he is the one thing that keeps her going. Ironically, she is an incredible mother.
She checked herself into a mental hospital over the weekend while I was out of town. She doesn't have insurance so she wasn't able to get treatment right away. She checked out on Monday and my mother picked her up feeling very frustrated and saddened that they couldn't help her. My mom is wondering if we should put her into a private facility that would be able to evaluate her, diagnose her and medicate her properly. She realizes that it will cost thousands a day, and that she will have to put it on her credit card. We are having a difficult time finding the right place for her to go. I told my mom I will leave work and take care of my nephew until she is better. Her husband doesn't make enough to take off and there are other issues with him as well.

How do we go about finding the right place? How do we handle this? I have said in the past that I think she has Asperger's Syndrome ( a form of autism) although she has never had a doctor tell her that. I have spoke with specialists and her childhood and behavior resemble my sister almost perfectly. My father thinks she has early symptoms of schizophrenia. I don't think that is what she has but no one knows.

:( WHAT DO WE DO? She is very indecisive and becomes combative and argumentative easily. We don't want to scare her, we want to help her. I think she is asking for help if she went and checked herself in somewhere. However, she tends to withdraw from us and then it is difficult to get her to do what we want or think she needs. HELP!! I am so scared and sad and worried and feel so helpless, my mother is a wreck. She has been seeing a therapist on how to handle my sister and how to respond to her. She has stopped taking care of her financially because he thinks we have rendered her helpless and created a sense of dependency but with this, if we don't help her, then she may continue to spiral into a place that we cannot pull her out of! HELP!! :confused:

Wow shattered, I'm really feeling it, for your sister as well as for you. Because something that affects someone, also affects the people around that person... like in this case. Your sister did good on going somewhere for help, at least she realizes she needs it and wants to do something about it. Which that is hugely important.
I really wish I could help out, but right now I got to say I'm in her same situation. I know there is someone who will enlighten you about this situation better. And I hope she'll get the help she needs soon, because once you realize how much help you need, it gets worse when you try reaching out and you can't do anything about it.
I came into depression when in high school also... and I've always had other issues since childhood. No one has ever diagnosed me with anything either cause I haven't seen any specialists. So I know a little how your sister must feel. Possibly very frustrated. And just to mention it, I told my mom, sister, and aunt what happened to me as a kid. She is feeling badly about it, and so am I. It has affected me tremendously in many ways.
But anyway I'm not here to talk about my issues, I wanted to try to help, but found out I couldn't because I'm also needing some help myself at this point.
So good luck in helping your sister out. She really needs it, although it would've been good if she would've sought for help earlier.

Please talk about your life, it will help me understand through her eyes.. this isn't just about me, this is about understanding mental illness. I need to understand and maybe your experience will help me to respond differently... please I need to hear whatever anyone has to say. I am not trying to sound desperate, I really need some guidance.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

I hope someone comes here with expert advice for you shattered.
My heart goes out to you.

Hugggs to you.Hang in there girl!

Thanks Firmy, I too am waiting...
I know you would help if you could.
Hugs to you, always

Hi,

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND this post too!

My empathy for your sibling is tremendous(and sympathy for you and yours too)

Once a person is convinced that 'What works for others,won't work for me because... 'There is a very hard battle ahead,until they(the sufferer) reach out for the help,they know deep down,they need.

I have been on and off medications for mental illnesses for 12 years or so,sometimes its just the side effects that spoil the serenity,other times it's a mental urging that stops me from thinking rational thoughts(Afterthoughts are "Why did I EVER get off them,I could have avoided all this mess by just doing what the professionals suggested")

As far as insurance or some other kind of coverage,

Call the hospital,clinic,psychologist,psychiatrists,mental health board in your county,social security,anyone that's affiliated with the mental health field.There is a lot more help out there than the average person thinks,it just takes effort to find.In my case I could do for myself,in a friends case his family had to do all the legwork,it took time and patience,but they love him and want him to advance in life,not stay in the same rut he's been in for so many years.

Sometimes we have to do for others what they cannot do for themselves.

Please,don't feel responsible for her illness,only feel responsible for her recovery from it.

I am posting a few sites that deal with bi-polar support(although it might not apply to her situation,it is a starting point for you to look for a site smiler to it.)

How to Recognize, Cope and Deal with Your Loved One's Bipolar Disorder

Bipolar Parenting

Discover the Comprehensive, Proven System That’s Helped My Mom and Thousands of Other People with Bipolar Disorder Rebuild a “Normal” Life

And this one to look a symptoms of bipolar.

Allsup - Free Bipolar Evaluation

I really hope this helps,

Ken

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and share your own experience. I am learning a little at a time and I will read all of the links you have posted in an effort to gain more clarity and insight. The problem is, we don't know what exactly she is suffering from, we only see the symptoms. To some, it just seems she is lazy, difficult and inable to be productive. Since we can't see what she has, like downs syndrome or other physical impairments, it makes it more difficult to understand. Especially because she is so intelligent and opininated and capable of caring for her child. Yes, you have a very good point that we need to do whatever to help her, if she cannot help herself. I only hope that we can do it in time.. and that it works. Ken, I really appreciate you reaching out to me, I feel very lonely and afraid for her, and understanding what others deal with and go through, helps me to see she is not alone and neither am I.
That is a great comfort in this moment and I look forward to every person sharing their perspective with me, so that I can learn what it is like for her...
It is always different when it happens to your family, it is so much easier to advise others than to advise myself. Thank you again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shattered soul

I am so scared and sad and worried and feel so helpless, my mother is a wreck. She has been seeing a therapist on how to handle my sister and how to respond to her. She has stopped taking care of her financially because he thinks we have rendered her helpless and created a sense of dependency but with this, if we don't help her, then she may continue to spiral into a place that we cannot pull her out of!! HELP!!!!!

---

If only it were clear what "help" is, exactly. This is so hard. One wouldn't let a toddler loose on a freeway in the name of honoring his freedom of choice and responsibility for his own actions. Yet, to continually shield an adult from the consequences of their own choices breeds dependency and prevents real maturity. It's hard enough even without mental illness, but that just takes it to a whole other level.

All I can think of to offer on the question of how to truly help your sister is to always ask yourself in every situation what she is actually capable of at this time, and do for her only what she can't (not won't) do for herself. If she is capable of making constructive choices, but is unwilling to do so, then she may need to attend the school of experience for awhile longer. How to distinguish between inability and unwillingness is the really hard part. I wish I had more to offer. I will bear you in my heart and mind as I go about my day. Bless you.

GOsh Cowboy, you just described the whole deal in a few sentences. This is the struggle we have been dealing with... letting her make choices, but not sure which ones she can't or just won't make. It is the hardest thing to watch someone so beautiful, intelligent and talented feel so horrible and distraught, leaving her completely immobilized. We have done way too much in the past and now we are afraid to not do enough. Just answering me and being here, really makes a difference.. I hope that others who read this who feel the same way, or have someone in their life who does, reach out to me, because it is the only thing that keeps me from falling apart. Staying strong alone, and for everyone else is just about the hardest thing I can do really.. You are always there with a kind word and that is what is so special about you, NEVER AN ORDINARY GUY!

Dear Shatteredsoul.

Without a definitive diagnosis, there is not much that can be done. I know how hard it is to be aware of an ailment and not being able to 'identify' it.

I took the first step late in life because I needed to know myself what is so 'different' about me. I too do not condone antidepressants as a 'cure all' and hate the side effects, so I began treating myself. Which, is something no clinician, lawyer, or therapist should do.

I do believe sharing one's inner feelings and reaching out is important, but know that those who are close and unable to fathom the depth of our painful existence essentially cannot help.

The support is sometimes taken constructively and sometimes make us feel we are a burden and that makes things worse. So I think the first step for your sister to take is to get an evaluation to define the exact type of mental disorder she has. Then, it will still be up to her is she wants to accept medicinal therapy or is willing to seek counseling for stabilization.

We all go through denial too, and need support in finally accepting that there is no shame or blame involved.

Bless you for loving and caring so much that you want to help others take that first step. And yes, I know how hard it is when loved ones are inflicted...

Just don't give up on her.

Lots of love and hugs... Chery

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif Fear of the unknown within ourselves is worse than any other fear in the world.

Chery,
The support we give her is almost exactly as you describe. She tends to feel like a burden and gets angry with us and withdraws. She is trying to follow up with the state to see what they can offer her, but without insurance, it is limited. That is why we thought maybe a private facility could help. The problem is, if she wants to finally recognize what it is, rather than just telling everyone how sad, lonely, depressed and unsure she is about everything. I mentioned to her one time about considering the possibility of her having Asperger's Syndrome, she FLIPPEd out on me. I have learned that I have to respond to her in a way that doesn't make her defensive, although my parents and I almost always get that response, regardless. Yes, I will never, ever give up on my sister. I love her with all of my heart and I just want her to have peace of mind, to be happy and healthy. She has stayed with me before but that didn't work out, she doesn't feel comfortable in her own skin, let alone someone else's space. She has stayed with my dad and they usually end up fighting and she comes home within a couple weeks. My mom does everything to help her but won't let her live with her, because it will foster a greater sense of dependency on her and that also is unhealthy.. My family members have offered her to come stay with them. The ironic thing is Chery, that I have a family of educators, in the field of social work, behaviorism and special needs, and NONE of us can help her because we are too closely involved.
I recognize the importance of what you are saying and we cannot fathom her experience of what she is going through. BUT people like you, who have been there, CAN.. this is why I began this thread.. So I can say the things here that I can't say to her and continue to broaden my awareness of such unexplainable pain and suffering.
I have always been able to manage my life and up until the past few months, I never had any real negative thoughts or sadness . I realize through losing people that I too can succumb to pain and sadness, but I have an inner strength that somehow pulls me through. I know I am a good person and worthy of love... my sister doesn't even believe that. That is the saddest part of all.. I admire your strength and your ability to fight for your own peace and happiness. I am in awe of your desire to help others in the process.. Thank you my friend. As always, you are straight from the heart.

Hello Shattered,

My step fathers side of the family are full of actual follow through suicides. Depression and mental illness is common. My step fathers mother committed suicide when he was young. My step fathers cousin and uncle. As well their was a uncle by marriage who tried to drive his van off the cliff. They took him into the hospital and then released him. Thought everything is okay and then a month later my step father found him dead. I am not trying to scare you or anything but I am going to get to what I am trying to say. There is a lot of turmoil in somebodies mind if they want to end it. This is of course my own personal thoughts and oppinions. Can I understand the depth of this probably not. Although I have to admit in my teenager years I often thought about ending my life. Things have always been a struggle. Of course, Never attempted but thought of it. Too be honest with you about medications, I do believe and have read that there is even a greater risk of somebody committing suicide that is on medication. The reason is one of the side effects are depression and suicidal thoughts and that medications to treat depression can actually make it worse. There are other ways and other steps to take in somebodies life to figure out how to mend and heal. All I know is that YOU can not stop somebody from committing any act. Each person has a choice. I would actually be thankful that your sister actually checked herself in. She should be given praise for doing it. Instead of you and your mother being in turmoil over this. Be thankful that your sister admits that she has a problem and does seek out some sort of help, I am in her way of thinking that medications will only make the problem worse plus it will just make her more dependent on something else. Also Medications are a band aid solution. There needs to be a long term solution. I also feel that just because she has these tendencies you explained in your post does not mean she necessarily has a certain medical problem and nothing was officially diagnosed. I would also suggest a complete medicall including hormone imbalances and other medical posibilites, like thyroid or anything else that might contribute. I also agree with the doctor that it sounds as if she is way to dependent on people around and that the only way to help her grow is by not helping out in certain ways. As far as treatments or care, there should be programs, that are cost free that will help intervene in certain situations it is just a matter of looking into different programs that might be available in the community. Small steps. As far as turmoil for you and your mom. It should not be up to you or your mother to be financially responsible for her care. You need to realise that you can want to help her as much as you want but it is up to her to seek it out. She did by checking in. If she does not want to seek any kind of medical attention you nor your mother can have any control over that. You need to remember that you and your mother can not control or make decisions for somebody else. Sometimes you have to just let go and hope they learn from whatever mistakes they make and also let them live with the consequences of their choices. Just show compassion and love and make sure she knows that you will always give emotional support. As long as she knows you care. The only thing is when there is such a strong reaction from your mother and you. With sadness and frustration it only will make her feel worse. I believe you need a different approach like letting her know how proud you are that she checked herself in.

I want to write more but have to go.
Please let me know what you think about what I wrote.

Joe

Yup, you have a point Joe. I think sometimes we just want to make it better and we don't really know how. It is all from the best of intentions. I know what you are saying about medication and that is true. She knows that and that is why she always knows exactly what they are prescribing. I don't want a band aid or an immediate fix. I have watched her for the past 16 years be unhappy, unsettled, depressed, socially withdrawn, ridden with anxiety and incapable of finishing school or staying in one place. It is so frustrating. I think that no one can make someone help themselves. We have pulled back tremendously, to let her navigate her own way and seek the help that she needs to get. The problem is, when you care so much for someone and you see them trying to finally take action, the impulse is to help. We haven't made any decisions for her and my parents have applauded her efforts to to take small steps to finding help. I have tried to call her, but she hasn't returned my calls. I only leave messages saying I just want you to know I love you and I am here if you want to talk.. She called me collect from that place she checked into. She didn't know I was in North Carolina. She was trying to reach out to me and I wasn't there.. it seems I always fail her without even meaning to.. IT makes me feel like I can never do what is right. DO you know what I mean? It would almost be easier if she was a drug addict. AT least in the sense of helping her.
She is very aware of how to take care of her body, she knows all about pesticides and steroids and growth hormones. She eats organic food and takes vitamins. She doesn't have a thyroid problem that I know of, but I guess it can't hurt to check. She has been to a naturopathic doctor in the past, and she wanted to go again but they are expensive and again, no insurance.
The bottom line is, we don't want her to be medicated to cover up the problem.. we just want to know what the problem is to be able to find the best way to help her. I don't think she is crazy, I do think her brain is wired differently, I really believe she can manage it, if she understands what it is.. I really think it is Asperger's and if she could get diagnosed with that, there are many different resources, and ways of managing that. However, if she is reluctant to labeled than again, we are back at square one. The reason we thought maybe a private center may be helpful, is because maybe they would have the resources to properly diagnose her. The treatment in this country, unfortunately, is based on the money you have. The funding for mentally ill has been drastically cut, and millions of people suffer because of that. I believe in my sister's abilities, but because of her indecisiveness and her lack of insurance or m0ney, I don't know how well she can move forward with any progress. Loving and letting go is the single most hardest thing I have ever done and when I do try to be suppportive, it is never the right way, or how she needs it. I don't want to lose her and I don't want to be a martyr. I just want her to be OK.
What if I let her go and she dies.. how do I live with that Joe?
You are being open and honest and I do need that. As difficult as it is, I know you are right. You have always been so good to me. You are a loving and gentle soul and I thank you for opening my eyes. Sometimes the truth is so hard to see.. thank you my friend.

The thing I was trying to say to you Shattered is that you can not stop anybody from taking negative actions. The thing is shattered, If somebody makes that decision to end their life. There is nothing you can do to stop it. The more you try to intervene the more somebody retreats into their own world, right. You have done your part. You have told her that you love her and that you will be an emotional support when she needs it. Now it is up to her to come to you. Right?

My fathers uncle by marriage. There was no stopping him from doing what he was going to do. Although his family felt so guilty they were passing the buck and putting the blame on the person that found him and his family. In tragedy like that many people want to eighter blame themselves or other people but the truth and only truth is that it had nothing to do with the family or people around except for the individual that felt that was the only solution. I know it may be hard but the only way is to let go. Another thing I wanted to add, is that I think it is best that she has her child, the two year old. If you want to take care of him to help her out, she might feel that she is going to lose that too. In a way, it is beneficial for her to stay close to her child especially considering that is what is keeping her going. Right? If she suggests for you to help take care of him then that is okay especially if what she is doing is seeking help. Oh this is so hard and my heart is aching for what your family is going through.. Just know there is always going to be support for everybody involved. Question is, is she seeing somebody to talk to, like a counselor? Your mother is, but I think it might be important that everybody is able to see one. The whole family or individually?

I am crying right now... because I know.. you are right.. I just feel f@cking helpless. I can help a million people on this site and get a thousand greenies but I can't help my own f@cking sister! It just sucks... it sucks big time.
Being with her child is probably the only thing that helps. So, I will let go...

Your helping her out right now. Love is the greatest gift. Compassion. Loving her and showing her your understanding is helping her. Give yourself credit. Please understand that you should not be feeling helpless at all but full of love and understanding that knowing, that the best way to show somebody you care is by being emotionally supportive. That's it.

Why is it easier to give love and support to a complete stranger, than to someone I have known my whole life? Why??

There are no strangers, my belief is every body that we meet and everybody that we know. Whether on the internet, phone, messenger, or in person. It is because we have always known each other. Complete strangers, not so. Maybe you feel that way but I do not see it that way.

I don't mean you JOe. I mean me giving advice to people I have never seen, talked to or met before. IT is easier for me to know how to help them, what to say and be supportive than I can for my own family. Maybe because we are all connected but I mean, I am connected to my sister and she couldn't be anymore alienated from me than she is right now..

I am going to try and say the way I feel, which may or may not be how your sister feels... in an attempt to help you understand at least some of her emotions and needs.
Well you guys all know the symptoms of depression right... the helplessness, the thoughts of suicide and worthlessness. All the crying one has to do, and loss of interest and withdrawal from normal things. And then of course there's physical symptoms which include but not limited to, lack of energy, stress, fatigue perhaps... and so on. That and more is exactly what I've been struggling with for years now. The difference lies in what caused her depression and what caused mine. I know for a fact that mine was caused by emotional and psychological issues as well as nutrition and imbalances in my body. I've never gone to a specialist but one knows when something is wrong with them, of course after they acknowledge it.
I know I have some POSSIBLE(cannot diagnose myself) mental issues maybe behavioral. Which MIGHT include OCD, social phobia and/or social anxiety, perhaps. Very low self esteem. Something called selective mutism, if it may be associated with social phobia or I don't know. Maybe birth trauma.
Well I just listed those things because I found that I have at least one or more symptoms of each. Not saying I have all of those though.
Ok so I know some factors which may have influenced me coming up with any psychological problems. As a start, as a baby I was badly mistreated by my dad, and some by my sister. I was born into a sort of hostile environment... my dad hit my mom even when she was pregnant with me, then I was born through surgery. At an early age I used to see my mom and dad fighting a lot, and him hitting her. My sister wasn't a very loving sister towards me either. Then I was 5 or 6 when they broke up and separated, and we left to a very different environment, difficult for me to adjust... especially when little just months after that, my mom left with another man. Then came back for us, and we had to live with him... basically in a van, just parked it somewhere and that was our home. Constantly we would move from one place to another rent here, then move and rent there. Changed schools a few times. At school I never said a word, ever, that's why I suspect I suffered with Selective Mutism. Then that man sexually molested me for a period of 3-4 years. At the same time one of my close relatives was doing the same to me.
All those experiences I think really messed the way I would and still do look at the world around me. I feel angry sometimes, desperate, worthless, a burden on everyone, didn't let me develop neither mentally nor physically how I was supposed to. I cannot trust anyone or have a very hard time trusting people even close family. I retract from society and from family because I know they don't understand me... or feel they judge me and have fear all the time about how other people will see me and treat me. Tons of insecurity of myself and everything else. Not really too able to make decisions or wasn't able to (until barely this year I began to feel more free)because of the deep insecurity. I feel like I always do everything wrong and make everyone suffer, or do wrong also. Did pretty bad in my high school years due to depression, could not concentrate or think straight. And still have a little trouble but it's been better.
Now... what I wish my family would do is not to overly nurture me or just feel sorry for me. Yes I do need them to actually acknowledge that I have suffered and they didn't know it. That instead they made it worse by not even trying to find out more about what was going on with me. What I don't need them to do is to keep making me more dependent on them, but I do wish they could at least support. In fact, for a long time even as a kid I felt the need to just have a chance to be completely independent of anyone. I would like to start a new life being independent yet to do that I need someone to help me become independent because I didn't really learn that well. I do not want them to judge me, nor to feel disgust or sorrow nor to look at me as inferior. I need them to make me feel that I am worth it, that it wasn't my fault, that I can still become what I want to become. So the reason I withdraw from them is because they don't understand how everything messed up my mind, and maybe they just want me to get over it already, and of course because I've always felt better being alone or away from people. You know I still don't even understand myself yet as good as I wish but I have been coming to understand little by little. I just remembered something... maybe some mental illnesses are hereditary or something... I know my dad had some mental illness. I don't know which one/s or anything. And my mom seems sometimes that she's very insecure and perhaps has social phobia too... maybe just a little social anxiety.
The thing is... I'm not saying that anything that happened to me happened to your sister... maybe nothing that I mentioned above happened to her... but I just wanted to show how someone with psychological problems has suffered. And the emotions that arise in times of confusion and difficulty. I don't know if any of this can help you understand your sister, but it will probably be helpful for someone else that has gone through something similar to me.

You may not need a diagnosis for treatment, it depends. I have been severely mentally ill all my life, in and out of mental hospitals for years. Ive seen all kinds of specialists, have been on disability for mental illness since I was a teenager and there is still no definitive diagnosis. Sometimes you just can't roll someone's group of symptoms into a neat ball that fits neatly into any diagnosis, but she may still find one. .
The question about were to go to find help, sadly comes down to money. You say she doesn't have insurance, so this reduces the options available. I would be curious to know if she would be elidible for medicade, I know its based on income and her husbands income would greatly effect this, but still worth looking into. I myself have medicade because my income on disability is so low. Im also wondering if she would be qualify for state or federal disability and again with her husbands income this would effect the amount she would receive. If she can afford it, or if she could somehow manage to get on a state insurance, I would say the best place to start exploring is at a university teaching hospital, where she could get psychiatric testing, psychological testing, neurological testing and extensive blood work done. All these things can be done on an out patient basis but if she is resistant it may not go over too well. Hmm, someone could become her power of medical attorney and have a bit more envolvment into her treatment if she were at the average psychiatric hospital, or taking it a step farther, someone could become her legal guardian so you may have more control over treatments. You want to rule out organic illnesses, brain diseases,perhaps get an MRI or CAT scan if you haven't already and cheak with your federal building and local family independence agency to see if she might qualify for financial assistance for treatment, and(if you have one) also check if she qualifies for treatment at your local community mental health clinic where you don't have to have insurance. Its very difficult to get a doctor to agree to the testing you want done, they are obligated to reduce the expenditure of medical dollars, so if something isn't blatantly obviously needed (but may well still be) they will deny you, but keep that these people, eventually they will break.
Sorry if I rambled, Im obviously very bitter at the mental health system but am forced to work within and around it.
Try not to be discouraged by her hospitalization attempt, nothing is ever helped in only a couple days in a hospital. If you fear for her, you can always get her involitarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital just to keep her safe, if it comed to this. You can get a petition for a 72 hour hold at the court house.
Cheak out earthhouse.org, it's a private conventional and alternative psychiatric "hospital"
In NJ.
I wish the best of all things to you and your sister...

Agrees: Yes, thank you Cheri, but Ken could you elaborate on what you meant here?

More... scrutiny?

It was the only word I could think of at the time.

I was a contractor for almost 20 years,learning the trades through the school of hard knocks.

Almost all my training was in the field,not too much schooling,just hands on.
While working on a new bathroom replacement I got to the wiring on the light and ceiling vent and got totally stumped,only 2 switches and I couldn't figure out how to tie the hot wires so the light would work separately from the vent,I tried and tried,breaking wire ends till I was sooo frustrated I finally swallowed my pride and asked a friend "What did I do wrong?""I just can't figure it out"

He came that night,after his 10 hour shift,and had it done correctly in 2 minutes flat.
Smiling at me he says"Sometimes we're just too close to the forest to see the trees"

Closer scrutiny might not have been the right wording,but now the clarification is hopefully here,you are so able to assist others being further from the forest,but your own trees are so close you can't see them.

I can feel your frustration,I see you reaching out.

One question,when was your last personal time out?Time away from the forest viewing?Maybe a look at the ocean instead of trees?Vacation is a broad term meant to mean VACATING ALL THOSE THINGS AND FINDING NEW PERSPECTIVE.

Hope this helps a little,

Ken

Dear shatteredsoul.

I know how you feel. I am of help to others because I can relate so much that they think I'm a psychic.
The reason I can help others, but not myself, is because my family will never understand the inner side of me.

Before my brothes were born, my mother had one objective - to vent the hate for my absent father on me. After they were born I was nothing but a live-in babysitter who got beaten when the little ones complained about something I did. My strife to please her never turned to fruition. My hatred of her was never understood by my siblings (half-brothers). She later turned them against me and it took me a while to convince my youngest brother that I was a human and that I raised him to be half-way tolerant of me. The older brother still hates me today and blames me alone for all the mishaps that have happened in my life, such as abuse, rape, even my heart disease and degenerative spine. These I was born with because my mother attempted to abort me and did not eat properly while pregnant. But to them, it's my fault and they will never listen to my side of the 'story'. To them, she was the loving and caring mother and they don't remember her sitting on the couch, smoking, drinking coffee all day and watching soaps while I took care of their daily needs and cooked. Ironic, but I love them both.

My continued struggle to maintain my mental health has alienated me in many ways, too many to count, but I now realise it will do no good with those who have not been there. It's hard to explain the inner turmoil to someone who has no understanding of helplessness and confusion.

If we don't help ourselves, who will help? It would be nice if there were more people interested in helping because we are no longer a 'minority'. /And, it's about time for politicians, medical/psychological groups start thinking about more than just saving money. When they realize that these disorders can inflict their own family members, it might work.

Until then, most think I'm lazy because I divert from 'life' by being on this forum, watching TV, listening to music and reading a lot. I also studied psychology because I had to find a reason for what I was going through, and through this I was also able to help others in the process. I don't practice, but I reach out and try to help anyone who comes to me for a little reassurance. I refer them to practicing professionals who help them further along their way.

As Meterre said, the need to be accepted, appreciated, loved, and most of all understood is our greatest wish. Until that happens, we are pretty much on our own.

The bottom line is that we have just as much right to be here as anyone else and that we deserve to be understood.

The care and love for your sister warms my heart and I hope you don't give up on her. Do the best you can and encourage her to seek help from support groups.

Lots of Love and Hugs,

Chery

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_19.gif

Wow, I am speechless after reading all of these heartfelt responses. I don't even know what to say, that is a rare thing.. if you know me!
METERRE, YOu have literally been through he! And back. I do not know why you are as level headed as you are. I cannot fathom all of the emotions and reprecussions you have experienced based on your upbringing filled with sadness, abuse, and isolation. I cannot relate to your pain or your suffering in the way some of these other people can. You are such a tenacious soul. You are frustrated with how you are managing your life, but how could you be doing any better than you are? LIfe is such a mysterious thing, it seems the ones with the most beautiful spirits, suffer the most. I don't know why. Maybe in preparation for the next life. However it is this life we have to learn to survive in. I am so blessed to know you and to have you open up those wounds for me to understand another perspective. Thank you for doing that and I know it must be difficult to go there, because you don't harbor any hatred to your family. You are a completely loving person and you have an immense capacity to move on and forgive those that have hurt you. I don't think I am that strong, maybe I am just too stubborn or immature. Either way, I understand how difficult it is for my sister to relate to me, take my support and to feel understood. More than anything you have shown me the isolation and alienation that you endure.. and that she is enduring. What is so difficult is not being able to change it. I have to surrender to something that I don't understand. IT is hard. Thanks for being my friend, as always your advice is genuine and loving and very open and honest. IT means the world to me... Thanks.
Delori, what you said made perfect sense.. you cannot always wrap people up into some neat little package diagnosis. That is more for everyone else's comfort and understanding.
I am going to check out that earthouse.og in NJ and I appreciate all your advice that you gave in dealing with the state. AS you stated, it always comes down to money. IT is sad but true. You have been struggling for so long, I wonder how do you come to realize that you needed help, and how did you finally get it? OR did you? Did you need someone to take over, or did you do it on your own. My sister has also been struggling since she was a teenager but we really didn't see how bad it was.. Now it is so much worse.
Becoming power of attorney, or admitting her involuntarily, might jeopardize her rights to her child. I don't want to take away the one thing she has, that she does well. IT is such a fine line of knowing what is right, and what will do more harm. I feel like I am walking on a tightrope and one wrong move might be disastrous. I am very thankful to hear from you and your advice is very helpful. I need all the support I can get, so you reaching out to me is really uplifting.
Ken,
You are a source of inspiration for many people. Please remember that. I am always looking forward to hearing your thoughts and how you feel about this subject. I think people who suffer from any mental disorder or illness, are the best teachers we can have. WE need to hear you, and learn from you.. because through you, we gain so much insight. Maybe your experience will not only help you grow, but help so many others as well.. NOt only for my sister, but for all of us with family and friends like this, or someone who is suffering right now. Thanks Ken
Cheri, YOu have always reached out to anyone you see in pain or suffering. YOu have spent your life being tortured and abused and yet your heart is bigger than most. I guess no matter what, they can't kill that wonderful spirit of yours. IT broke my heart to hear about your mom and your childhood. YOur mother must have suffered from her own sickness to treat you that way. I can see that you too are forgiving and loving, as METERRe. You still find room in your heart for your family. I can only compare that to the love Jesus had for those that crucified him. I am not a religious person, but spiritual, yet I had to say that. You are a source of comfort, light and awareness for so many. I am blessed to know you and to realize the goodness in the world, even when there is so much sadness and evil. You are living proof of turning the other cheek. Yes, you have struggled and suffered and endured so much, but look at how amazing you are now.. You are an amazing, wonderful person who shows me that I cannot give up.. I must be loving and forgiving for that which I don't understand.. I will. Thanks for teaching me that.

I don't blame her for being worried about taking traditional medicine with all the side effects.
There are a lot of good natural alternative doctors that can work miracles because they find the root of the problem rather than mask the problem with drugs.
If I know what area you live I would even try to find an alternative doctor in your area.

These are just two excellent alternative doctors I know of
http://www.painreleaseclinic.com/
And
Welcome to Pompa Health Solutions

Take comfort in knowing you're not alone, just like a lot of us, the unknown makes us feel powerless, but we should never give up hope. Life can be such a struggle sometimes that makes you just want to scream - do so, in the forest somewhere - I do, and it helps a little.

You know I will be here for you for as long as I can. Will be in hospital again next Monday, but won't let them keep me more than three days, that should give them enough time to do the test they want so that I get documentation I need to be a 'cancer statistic' which will help me a little financially. After that, I don't plan on seeing the inside of a hospital ever again.

A lot has been taken away from me in life (riches to rags - and no fun at all - it's downright degrading, but I will not let anyone take my DIGNITY.

If you've got the strength, show your sister that she is worth a lot more than she thinks and keep up the encouragement.

Love,
Chery
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_16.gif Here is some love and encouragement from me to you.

I should be the one comforting you.. giving you love and encouragement. YOu are fighting for your life, defending your dignity and trying to find decent care... and you have time for me. I don't feel very worthy, but your smily faces with kisses, truly lift me up. Chery,
Deserve to be protected and taken care of, not worrying about all these medical issues alone. Is there some way that I can support you or help you, like you have helped me?
I think that if anyone has a right to scream it should be you. I will not complain or feel sorry for myself, especially knowing your struggle and positive outlook and energy for everyone around you.
I wish I could hold your hand and be with you and fight those doctors for you. I am with you in spirit and very thankful to have such special people in my life

LIKE YOU!!

I don't know what to tell you about your sister, but I hope she gets better soon. I will keep you and your sister in my prayers. God bless!

Here is one but it looks like they are into spiritualism stuff as well.

South Florida Herbalists-Plant Spirit Medicine Meetup Group (Miami, FL) - Meetup.com

This one looks like a good possibility


Sherry Kagan, L.Ac.
Health Dynamics
11221 S.W. 114 Lane Circle
Kendall, Florida 33176
305/252-1774
Fax: 305/663-1578
Specializing in women's disorders, herbal medicine, nutrition, homepathy and acupuncture

Absolutely Florida Alternative Medicine

Shattered, thanks for all your kind words on behalf of everyone. Because even when I see someone giving love to someone else I can also feel that love and it warms my heart. On the most part because that shows me that the world is not only how I have experienced it but it shows me there is good out there. It might not always be obvious or accessible, but it is out there. So that calms me.
And also when I see you and others being appreciative of what sufferers can offer, it reminds me even more how it's not always black and white.
It's really sad how money is the key to being helped sometimes like in your sister's case. That is one of the reasons I haven't been help, at least not by professional care or anything.
But you know not only does your sister need support but you need it too. I can also understand how you feel helpless to her. So you need us and your family and friends to keep you positive... of course you need yourself too. You are a strong individual that no matter if you haven't gone through some the things we've gone through, you have learned a lot from life and others. So there's no reason for you to feel unworthy of anything, you know that different people react differently and cope differently. You too are worthy of so much especially for your heart that is also big, trying to help your family... and trying to help us, and being appreciative. And much more there is no limit.
Thank you all.

Well, I haven't been on for awhile so I don't want anyone to think that I don't appreciate and need your thoughts, advice or ideas on how to deal with the issue of mental illness within family.. I think that so many people have opened my eyes to the internal struggle that they face in having to explain, justify and have others understand what they are going through. WE think its tough to know or love someone with mental illness, it is 10,000 times tougher for them. My dad explained it to me like this. When you look at someone who has a physical impairment or disability, we understand that they are limited in certain ways. We do not have the same patience, funding, research or understanding, when it comes to someone who is struggling within themselves, even though it causes impairment, disability, or an inability to connect with others or deal with life. This is where we need to wake up as a society and start bridging the gaps in our awareness. NOt everyone has the same symptoms, many medications are very new and we do not know what reprecussions they have, sometimes until too late, and most of the time it just covers up the symptoms and doesn't deal with the source of where it stems from.
We live in a society that wants fast and easy answers. WE want instant gratification. (at least in the U.S.) We cannot take something so delicate and misunderstood and put big generalizations on everyone. I have also learned that many people who struggle have helped themselves, more than anyone else has helped them. People also learn to deal with and manage their illnesses alone, because of the lack of support.
That is just plain sad. THat is not acceptable. I don't have any answers but that is perfectly clear to me.
MY question to all of you that have responded, or have read this and thought they have some insight to this, WHAT DO WE DO TO BRING AWARENESS and UNDERSTANDING TO THIS? HOW do we help? I know that being understanding and supportive does help.
I know that insisting on medication is not the best answer. I have looked into some of the websites mentioned.
I want to know how we can make alternative medicine and more natural approaches to this, more available to the public.
We are dealing with the largest giant of a money making machine, it is going to be like fighting Goliath... THE Pharmacutical companies are largely responsible for our doctors, hospitals and mental health care workers pushing drugs on everyone. THe kickbacks they get are hard to deny, and just look at t.v. during the day. Almost every commercial is a drug pushing ad about your symptoms and how to take a pill to make it go away... IT is pathetic.
I am going to do my part and try to bring awareness to that , but I need your help.

FINALLY, my reason for going off on this tyrade is... my mom's best friend of 40 years has a son of 21 who has been suffering from depression and anxiety since he was like 12. His parents have money, the best resources and treatment available and have fought around the clock to help him. He also had a serious drug problem with heroine. They got him sober and out of treatment. He went off his meds and then back on... WEll He committed suicide on Sunday.
He took an entire bottle of ZOLOFT and drank alcohol. His parents found him in his room with a note. He said he just couldn't take it anymore. I feel so sad, it brings up all these emotions and concerns about my sister. My parents are worried and so distraught. I know that there isn't anyone specific to blame, but it is another life gone because of MENTAL ILLNESS..
I love my sister, I support her, and I will never EVER give up on her.

I wanted all of you to know what is going on, because you have all been so honest and open on here. IT means the world to me, to have your deepest issues and emotions put out, to help and support my sister and I.
My friends, reach out and continue this... Let's do what we can to be aware, to understand, and to learn.

SS,
So very sorry for your loss, I am sure your mom's best friend's family must have been close to you through the years.

Yes, in fact my mom was friends with her before she had me. My mom was a nun in the convent and met her in her 3rd year as a postulate, when they were allowed to go to college.
She is an amazing woman and she tried for 10 Years to have a baby. THen she had three in a row. I was like 10 when her first was born. They are all incredibly bright and beautiful kids... Sebastian is the one who took his life. Beautiful Sebastian. His mother and father feel so defeated. My mother's heart is broken for her best friend.. I think it also makes her think of my sister.
Firm, thanks for responding... XO

It is so sad... I don't know what to say. But I guess now more than ever you'll probably be standing by your sister's side, knowing that she could sometime have a fragile moment and do something.
I stand with you in you trying to reach out to people so that society can be more aware of all this. It is something that just has to be done, it cannot keep going on in the dark. I know from my own experience that it really is hard to deal with these types of illnesses. One minute it seems like there might be hope, the next you just feel tired of life like this. Had I listened to those thoughts of 'i can't take it anymore' I wouldn't be here, I would've been long gone.
And yeah I support what you're saying, how America thinks that just by taking a pill it'll all be fine, but it just isn't. And until we get everything clear in our head, it'll keep going on. So whatever you want to do about this just say it and I'm here to support. Your sister needs you, we need you. Great idea.
So sorry about what happened to that young man.

I am so so sorry to hear that this as happened Shattered.

My thoughts, even people who apparently have the best treatment are still suffering and do not necessarily get the help they need.

Joe

I wanted to share with all of you what Sebastian's brother said about him at his memorial. I know that this thread is about my sister and her situation, but this has directly affected all of us. Our entire family is in awe of the love and support that have been put forth from everyone who knew him. My mother sent me this message from Sebastian's mom and I thought it would appropriate to share with all of you. I appreciate you reading these words and commenting on however you feel about it.

My mom had a terrible time telling my sister what happened. I think we were all fearing her reaction. However, I think she handled it as best as she could.
Here you go...
These were Eric's words at Sebastian's memorial service. He really knew him well and appreciated his uniqueness:

I think it is a testament to the richness of Sebastian's soul that despite his monumental suffering and heartaches, he could allow himself to celebrate the absurdities of day to day life. At the moment, the brunt of my sadness is that I know I will never meet anyone who could make me laugh as long and as hard as he could. But even though right now my heart is broken, Sebastian left me a wealth of smiles and laughs, enough to last me an eternity. This doesn't soften the blow, but allows me a pleasant, peaceful place to drift when the tempestuous waves of my family's griefs seem unconquorable.

I laugh when I think about us getting lost in GErmany together, where Sebastian suggested that we should just give up and start our lives anew as "German people." I smile when I become self-conscious aroung strangers or unfriendly acquaintances, because I know that if he were there, he would try to catch my attention, so he could make wickedly inappropriate yet wickedly funny face to ease my tension.The memories he gave me are more precious and unique than anything I could ever hope to own. I know that some of you never met him and for that I'm sorry. His astounding intellect and cutting wit were ony matched by his gentle nature and infinite generosity, all traits he owned modestly, and shared with complete strangers as well as loved ones. I am proud to have been his big brother, and also consider myself so fortunate to have had him as my best friend.

I would like to share something with you all, something that Sebastian had written. It is written in an unconventional poetic way and seems to be an untitled personal manifesto. I think it's the most beautiful thing I have ever read and to hear these words of his is to know the wonderful depth of Sebastian:

I am for now, no longer looking at the complications of existence (that I unintentionally choke myself with through voracious observation) as insurmountable, but as a challenge that I am ready to accept or that I will gladly accept when I have more independence.

I want to:
-read about the physical sciences and mathematics so I can undestand the properties of my restrictions and dream up ways to overcome them.

-stick with linguistics and learn as much as possible about our primary source of communication, apply rhetorics, expand my vocabulary to maximize self-expression through language.

-As for the intangible (yet somehow undetectable) blanks in this plane of consciousness, they will be filled, in as they traditonally are, through art and music.

My sister and I had a long conversation the other night about the difficulties of speaking of our brother in the past tense. How funny he was, how smart he was, how talented he was. But Hillary and I agreed that we will never refer to our love for Sebstian in the past tense. We love him now as we always did and always will

What his brother said about him really touched my heart. I wanted to share it with the people that also have a way of doing the same thing...
I wanted to add that although it is difficult for those of us who love or live with someone who suffers like Eric did, ultimately we see past those things and see those we care about as human beings with so many gifts to offer. Thank you to my friends who read this and share their thoughts. I care about everyone single one of you.

Hello ss. Firstly let me say how lucky your sister is to have someone like you, she is truly blessed. I to have had problems with my mental health since my early twenties, I'm now 34. I've read your thoughts and the thoughts of other in this post and there is some very good advice. While I know some people are very against the use of medication to treat mental disorders, speaking from experience I feel they have a very important place in help people to address their problems and learn to overcome then. Believe me I really thought that my life was over once and seriously considered taking my own life. Only with the intervention of medication was I able to get a grasp on reality and reclaim my life back. I now have a pretty normal life and a wonderful wife and children, all of which was incomprehensible back then.

I hope you can see that medication does have its place and saves lives.

I really wish you and you family well with everything

Disciple72, I want to thank you for thoughts and interest in this thread. It has been very difficult trying to find the right way to be supportive and helpful, without being overbearing and creating more dependency. I agree that medication can be very helpful. I know it is not easy to diagnose, or decide which medication is appropriate. I am glad that you were able to come so far, and have such a productive and fulfilling life. The difference in your situation is that you were open to using medication, and my sister isn't. She is so well read on antidepressants and has an overwhelming fear regarding the side effects. I also know that some medications, when stopped, cause suicidal thoughts in some people. Sebastian was a severely depressed and anxious young man. He was very bright, articulate and loving, but was also addicted to heroine. He was on medication and in and out of therapy and rehabs for years. He had just come home from his last about with rehab and seemed to be doing well. However, a couple days before he died, he starting drinking and his parents found him on the couch passed out. His mother told him that if he didn't stay sober or continue to fight for his life, he could not continue to stay in their house. He asked her, "ARe you sure about that?" She said yes. I am sure that conversation has resonated with her and made her wonder what she could have done different.

That is what is so hard, everyone around those struggling with some sort of mental issue, don't know the right thing to do or to say. I fought with my sister when she lived with me when I was pregnant with my son, and told her if she didn't like it, to leave. Two days later I got a call from Florida Medical Center that she was in ICU for a drug overdose. There is so much frustration, helplessness and guilt that seems to circulate amongst ourselves. I don't know how to take that and turn it into something positive and helpful. It was this thread that made me think that maybe by reaching out to others who suffer, that I may gain clarity and insight. I also want to respond in a way that is effective and helpful. I think in the past that my family and I have done too much, and that has caused resentment in my sister and sense of inferiority and feeling incapable. She doesn't feel like a grown up and doesn't have a sense of self. She relies on us too much and then hates herself and us to an extent because of it. I know she loves us, it is more a hatred for herself. IT feels we are spinning our wheels and I want to get out of this rut and move forward. I cannot change her or anyone else, but maybe by my growing, changing and understanding others like her and you.. maybe I can help make a difference and encourage her in a different way. Please continue to share, it means the world to me. I don't feel so alone in the fight, when others like you reach out and care.

Oh my Shattered. I am so so sorry for all that you have been going through. Sabastian's brother did an outstanding job remembering his brother. I think it is so important for you and your family to have an open line of communication with your sister over this. Which it sounds like you are doing. The most important thing is that she knows you are there. No matter how angry she gets, she knows that you will be there.

You are a strong strong lady. Please know you can count on us for support.

Thanks Tusc, just you coming over here and supporting me gives me strength. It has been a tough year for me all the way around.. but there are so many people who suffer so much more. I have to keep it in perspective. I try to stay focused and determined but sometimes I feel so weak. You guys give me hope when I start to feel down and defeated. So I reach out to you to find strength within... thanks my friend