Ask Me Help Desk - Emotions and Words Don't Mix.

“Art is using your brain and hands/fingers and imagination -- so what is different about art from writing? Have you ever been told what to draw or paint, or is that always your choice?”

Because there are left and right- sides of the brain that have different functions. So the right side of the brain is more subjective, and the left side is more objective. Could it be possible that her right-side of the brain has taken over/doesn't work right? Maybe it is some kind of disorder? She can't control crying, so maybe it's possible?

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Originally Posted by yttrium

I can't manipulate words to make them say what I mean. I know other people can, but whenever I try to say something - especially something with feeling - I only get an approximation of the real meaning. And as soon as that approximation is written down, the real meaning separates itself from the words and the words drift away into nothing and decay, and everything I write becomes empty and wrong.

Well, you certain have done a stellar job writing in this thread.

You actually sound like a poet. Do you judge yourself so harshly in other ways or just with your writing? The perfectionist in you...

Write me a sentence containing these words: Margie, sister, angry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zea

So the right side of the brain is more subjective, and the left side is more objective. Could it be possible that her right-side of the brain has taken over/doesn't work right? Maybe it is some kind of disorder? She can’t control crying, so maybe it’s possible?

Art, like writing, is subjective. If she couldn't do either of those but could rebuild an automobile engine or tutor trig, then you might have hit on something.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Well, you certain have done a stellar job writing in this thread.

You actually sound like a poet. Do you judge yourself so harshly in other ways or just with your writing? The perfectionist in you....

Write me a sentence containing these words: Margie, sister, angry

All right, I know that particular sentence was actually pretty good. In terms of radioactivity, it might even be stable. But that doesn't happen very often, and I can't do it on-demand or with a time limit.
It's not really that I'm judging myself, the writing just loses its meaning over time and I can't bear to read it because it isn't true anymore.

"Margie's sister was angry."
Or : "Margie was angry at her sister."
Or: "Sister Margie was angry."

I guess I'd put the first one because it's the most obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zea

“Art is using your brain and hands/fingers and imagination -- so what is different about art from writing? Have you ever been told what to draw or paint, or is that always your choice?”

Because there are left and right- sides of the brain that have different functions. So the right side of the brain is more subjective, and the left side is more objective. Could it be possible that her right-side of the brain has taken over/doesn't work right? Maybe it is some kind of disorder? She can’t control crying, so maybe it’s possible?

I was thinking about right vs. left and the left side usually deals with language but without it you can still have a very basic understanding of language, although if you disable the right side you can't understand the inflections in a person's voice, or things like sarcasm and jokes and subtextual meaning.
My right-side can "hear" but not "speak" - I can read right-side oriented things like poetry and fiction but I can't write them. And also I hate it when people analyze poetry and art because it's painful. Almost physically. It's taking something creative (right-side) and doing something analytical (left-side) with it and taking away all its meaning and beauty. My english teacher disagrees and says you can't see the meaning unless you've taken the poem apart. And to me that feels like not just taking the poem apart but dismembering it while it's still alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yttrium

I can read right-side oriented things like poetry and fiction but I can't write them.

But you have written poetry in this thread.

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taking away all its meaning and beauty. My english teacher disagrees and says you can't see the meaning unless you've taken the poem apart. And to me that feels like not just taking the poem apart but dismembering it while it's still alive.

The high school English teacher I had for three years said the same thing. Read a poem for its beauty, but explicate it for its meaning. Beauty goes only so far.

The word you're looking for is evisceration, not explication. When you analyze something for "meaning" you are pulling its guts out. You can never find meaning that way. You can only find death. And it's painful to watch a poem taken apart the way it's painful to watch someone bleed to death.

This is making me cry. And not the way I do when I force myself to write.

Maybe I can write poetry, but not when I'm asked to. And most of the things I write are wrong. They are only right when the feelings actually match the words I'm writing, and most of the time they don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yttrium

When you analyze something for "meaning" you are pulling its guts out.

What about "Jabberwocky"? Or "The Road Not Taken"? I need to know what they mean, the background, in order to appreciate them.

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Maybe I can write poetry, but not when I'm asked to.

Ah, thus the pressure thing.

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And most of the things I write are wrong. They are only right when the feelings actually match the words I'm writing, and most of the time they don't.

Oh, but they do, they do.

No, they don't. What you hear is not always what I mean. What I say is almost never what I mean, and I know that because I can feel it. The entire English language is a maze of lexical gaps. That is why, when writing a paper, I spend more time reading the thesaurus than my paper. And I still don't get to say exactly what I wanted to. I sound poetic, maybe, because I read so many books that I've learned to borrow pieces of their sentences and put them together like a collage.
I guess poetry is different because the meaning is subtextual, like in art. But I still can't write something I'm told to write. If I'm told to draw a picture of a log cabin, I can make that picture true through the way I draw it. But I can't make a poem true because of the way I write it unless I choose what I write.
Also, it is very difficult to see what I'm typing and concentrate on writing when everything is blurry because I'm crying. Which is happening right now.

“I was thinking about right vs. left and the left side usually deals with language but without it you can still have a very basic understanding of language, although if you disable the right side you can't understand the inflections in a person's voice, or things like sarcasm and jokes and subtextual meaning.

My right-side can "hear" but not "speak" - I can read right-side oriented things like poetry and fiction but I can't write them. And also I hate it when people analyze poetry and art because it's painful. Almost physically. It's taking something creative (right-side) and doing something analytical (left-side) with it and taking away all its meaning and beauty. My english teacher disagrees and says you can't see the meaning unless you've taken the poem apart. And to me that feels like not just taking the poem apart but dismembering it while it's still alive.”

(Several parts of the brain take care of language.)
You do sound like a poet. But I think that breaking down poetry, or anything else, into little details takes us to the true nature of one's self.
Have you ever read “Catcher in the Rye”? You might find lost details if you pay a close attention, but it all depends on how YOU perceive them.
Words are like fish lost in the sea water, and because the sea water is so viciously dark you can't see through it. So if I am you I would take a swim!
Do you notice some people around you? If you take how they perceive/act/react… to a situation, label them in your head, and put them each into a category. You might notice, in time, that they will repeat the same behaviors over and over again. Thus, people are so predictable.
“Art, like writing, is subjective. If she couldn't do either of those but could rebuild an automobile engine or tutor trig, then you might have hit on something.”

Thanks for correcting me.
I guess that some people put themselves in a painting, while some force themselves to overdose (?).

"No, they don't. What you hear is not always what I mean. What I say is almost never what I mean, and I know that because I can feel it. The entire English language is a maze of lexical gaps. That is why, when writing a paper, I spend more time reading the thesaurus than my paper. And I still don't get to say exactly what I wanted to. I sound poetic, maybe, because I read so many books that I've learned to borrow pieces of their sentences and put them together like a collage.
I guess poetry is different because the meaning is subtextual, like in art. But I still can't write something I'm told to write. If I'm told to draw a picture of a log cabin, I can make that picture true through the way I draw it. But I can't make a poem true because of the way I write it unless I choose what I write.
Also, it is very difficult to see what I'm typing and concentrate on writing when everything is blurry because I'm crying. Which is happening right now. "

You are the meaning of your words. They will cry like a rainy day when you do, they will scream in pain when you are in pain, they will smile when you feel better. Once you lose that feeling the meaning will be lost too. But for the reader who goes through that, your words will live for them not you. Even if you will not feel them, others will.

My words are not always my words. Sometimes they are WRONG. I don't want other people to read them if they aren't true. I don't want to read them if they aren't true. I want to fold them into paper airplanes and throw them into a fire and watch them burn.

"You do sound like a poet. But I think that breaking down poetry, or anything else, into little details takes us to the true nature of one’s self. "
It doesn't take you to the true nature of anything! It only results in horrible pain and death and nothing beautiful left in the world! It is like watching someone you love die! It is painful to even read what you just said. It makes me cry.
And no, I have never read The Catcher in the Rye. But I suggest that you read Introduction to Poetry by Billy Collins.

You can't tell me the nature of my own writing.
When they are wrong, my words die. Fast.
And they don't live again, for me or for anyone else. If you can hear something in the words that have become wrong, you are seeing the corpses of dead meaning.

Why are you talking about death so much?

"It only results in horrible pain and death and nothing beautiful left in the world!"

Words result in death? What do you mean?

"It is painful to even read what you just said. It makes me cry."

I am sorry. I didn't mean to upset you on purpose.

I don't remember that you have ever told us how old you are. I'm guessing 15.

I'm 14 actually.

And when I say death I mean the poem dies when you take it apart. I read a poem in English class once and then had to listen to people analyze it and when I read it again it wasn't beautiful anymore. It was just an ordinary bunch of words. It wasn't a living thing, it didn't have an author's voice, it didn't have any soul left in it. I knew it was going to happen that way and I don't want that to happen again to any poem.

Evisceration is a more exact word for that process. It was in Ray Bradbury's A Graveyard for Lunatics, describing the state of Roy Holdstrom's studio and its plastic creations after it had been destroyed and vandalized, "His beasts had been eviscerated, decapitated,blasted and buried in their own plastic flesh."

It's kind of the same thing with art. It's okay when people say that the art represents a certain style, or is about a particular subject, but when people try to put the "meaning" of the art into words, it loses some of its meaning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yttrium

when people try to put the "meaning" of the art into words, it loses some of its meaning.

And that really makes sense.

And age 14 makes perfect sense too.

Wait, why does being 14 make perfect sense?

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Originally Posted by yttrium

Wait, why does being 14 make perfect sense?

Hormones churning, the search to figure out who you are. I knew your twin back in 1985. She was 15 then and said almost exactly what you are saying.

For some reason, "My hormones are acting up" does not seem like a response that a high school English teacher would accept for not being able to do my homework. Neither does "I'm searching for my identity right now. Check back in 10 years."
Although I could get that hormone test that my previous therapist suggested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yttrium

For some reason, "My hormones are acting up" does not seem like a response that a high school English teacher would accept for not being able to do my homework. Neither does "I'm searching for my identity right now. Check back in 10 years."
Although I could get that hormone test that my previous therapist suggested.

At 14 hormones are raging. At 14 young teens, especially girls, are searching for who they are and what they will be someday, how they will make their mark in life, who they will marry, how many kids they will have, how long they will live. My mother went through it, my sister did, my nieces have gone through it, my classmates went through it, and so did I.

I'm guessing no hormone test is necessary. You are 14.

If all of this is normal, all the other girls would have to nearly fail English too. I am the only one who nearly failed English.
Although I am not the only one who disagrees with the English teacher about analyzing poetry.