Shattered, You are so wonderful, you have gone through so much, and yet still seem to get the kids in gear, take care of your daily responsibilities, your husband, your whole family, and yourself...
Sweet, Sebastians brother said some wonderful things, I was excited at how he made all his good shine through even though there is so much hurt. He will be remembered! Sebastian himself, (reading what he wrote) seems like an intelligent life, that got very lost. I am so sorry for your family and you, I wish there were an easy way to get past these things. I really do. Time really helps, as you already know that...
Love you...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

I should be the one comforting you.. giving you love and encouragement. YOu are fighting for your life, defending your dignity and trying to find decent care... and you have time for me. I don't feel very worthy, but your smily faces with kisses, truly lift me up. Chery,
deserve to be protected and taken care of, not worrying about all these medical issues alone. Is there some way that I can support you or help you, like you have helped me?
I think that if anyone has a right to scream it should be you. I will not complain or feel sorry for myself, especially knowing your struggle and positive outlook and energy for everyone around you.
I wish I could hold your hand and be with you and fight those doctors for you. I am with you in spirit and very thankful to have such special people in my life

LIKE YOU!!!!

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I don't know why I did not get a email notice for this subscription, but better late than never.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and feelings. It's people like you that keep me from going nuts because I realize that all of us go through our personal 'hades' and learn to cope a lot better with friends like you.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif

Shatteredsoul..
I've just read post 36, and it gives me goosebumps.

Lately I have been wondering what Sebastian thought before he made the journey of his choice, because I too plan on controlling the way I make my final journey.

I feel, even though I have discourage suicide to the young, that if this is the only dignified way to take control and not let suffering be prolonged, that it is the right to choose for someone who has tried everything else, sought help, and lost the battle.

Not too many people like to get involved in the subjects of mental health, incurable cancer, continued life of helplessness and hopelessness. But it is something that we all think about what we would do when 'the time comes' to make a choice.

They way I look at it is: I respect and appreciate the help of people who care and want to help with all that is available.
Therefore, I want them to respect and appreciate the choice of how my life will end in dignity.

I'm sure that along this line, Sebastian was thinking the same thing, and that's why his family will always love and remember the best part of him.

I hope I am making sense here, I'm just so overwrought by what a lot of families and friends you know have gone through, and what you yourself deal with and manage.. that I hope my daughter will also be able to keep her memories of me in a special place and still love me.

Got to quit now, tears are blocking my vision, but I'm going to let them run..

As for help for millions worldwide... I've tried my best to convince doctors that antidepressants are not always the answer, but I feel that they don't want to get to the bottom of the real issues, it would take too much time and financially it is not beneficial to anyone but the pharmaceuticals. It is unfortunate.

It would be nice if the world would wake up here, but look where else it's sleeping - those issues are also Too Many To Count...

Bless You!

Chery,
You do everything with integrity and dignity and NO one will ever take that from you. YOu educate yourself and try to find the best possible way to manage your illness. I couldn't be more proud to know you, or to be your friend. All of your kind thoughts and heartfelt words totally hit me. I feel very blessed to be so fortunate to know so many amazing people as the ones I have met on here.
I will say that I am a little disappointed in the people who chose not to respond at all, when I thought they would be eager to share their views and perceptions on mental illness. This isn't a popularity contest and I wasn't looking for the most responses out of everyone, but some people are very well educated on this subject and still choose not to partake in such an important and critical discussion.
We as a society are faced with serious obstacles ahead. The funding to help those that are mentally ill has been drastically cut over the years, as have the salaries of those in the field to help people with mental illness.
My sister has some good days and some bad ones. More bad than good. She still can't make up her mind about most things and lives in a costant state of anxiety and depression. I try to stay positive and let her know that I love and support her, without trying to give her answers or solve her problems for her.
THAT IS WHAT ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN ME... I cannot fix her or do it for her, but I can stand by her side and love her and try to be accepting of what I don't understand or agree with. It isn't always easy, but nothing in life worth doing is.
SO for everyone who has reached out to me, I say thank you and I appreciate each and everyone of your opinions, experiences and perspectives... I hope to keep this going, even if it isn't the most fun subject, I feel it is valuable because I am learning and growing from it..
LOVE YOU ALL! PEACE OUT

Hey stranger, you've been away for a while,Glad to see you back.

All who shared did so because they could,I don't know who else might have but I DID,, sniff sniff,I am somebody... :(... LOL JK

I understand your sisters up and downs, mine are back too, I feel for her, and to try to make up your mind when IT won't cooperate, that just sucks eggs.

It sounds like you have a great perspective towards the needs of your sis and your boundries, like to see that, that's growth:)

I'll help it along ( with your help... ;p)

Chat soon,OK?

Ken

I have missed you my friend... I am sorry it seems I have neglected my friends... your opinions and views matter so much to me.. I want you to know that.
EVEN in your darkest moments, you have the strength to reach out to others.. that is a gift my friend. It really is.
I am here and I would love to chat with you. ANYTIME

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

Chery,
You do everything with integrity and dignity and NO one will ever take that from you. YOu educate yourself and try to find the best possible way to manage your illness. I couldn't be more proud to know you, or to be your friend. All of your kind thoughts and heartfelt words totally hit me. I feel very blessed to be so fortunate to know so many amazing people as the ones I have met on here.
I will say that I am a little disappointed in the people who chose not to respond at all, when I thought they would be eager to share their views and perceptions on mental illness. This isn't a popularity contest and I wasn't looking for the most responses out of everyone, but some people are very well educated on this subject and still choose not to partake in such an important and critical discussion.
We as a society are faced with serious obstacles ahead. The funding to help those that are mentally ill has been drastically cut over the years, as have the salaries of those in the field to help people with mental illness.
My sister has some good days and some bad ones. More bad than good. She still can't make up her mind about most things and lives in a costant state of anxiety and depression. I try to stay positive and let her know that I love and support her, without trying to give her answers or solve her problems for her.
THAT IS WHAT ALL YOU WONDERFUL PEOPLE HAVE SHOWN ME... I cannot fix her or do it for her, but I can stand by her side and love her and try to be accepting of what I don't understand or agree with. It isn't always easy, but nothing in life worth doing is.
SO for everyone who has reached out to me, I say thank you and I appreciate each and everyone of your opinions, experiences and perspectives.... I hope to keep this going, even if it isn't the most fun subject, I feel it is valuable because I am learning and growing from it..
LOVE YOU ALL! PEACE OUT

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Shattered... you know I will be here for you and those that come to see this thread do have something to say, but maybe they don't know yet how to say it... It is a touchy subject, and a lot of families live with this each day and still don't know how to cope.
Society does not support it as much because it's hard to 'pinpoint' the origin, and without that, a 'cure' is next to impossible, so they leave it up to the gods of pharmaceuticals.

Has anyone given a thought why there are so many 'messies' in this world now? This is another annex of mental illness that has not been brought out, just looked at, tolerated, and written off. My theory of this symptom is that those who are hopelessly looking for their place in life, collect all they can and don't want to give it up, even if it's trash, - it's theirs - and they are not willing to give up any part of it.. That is part of their helplessness and can be corrected once they get their identity back and support in confirmation that they have just as much right to exist as anyone else - in other words, just plain acceptance as an individual.
Through this theory of mine, I have been able to help at least two individuals return to a 'normal' existence and self-respect. After long talks with them, I have learned that when they feel totally alone, lonely, helpless and hopeless, they need something around them in such abundance to prove that they are here... to include all the things they collect. After encouraging a group of young neighbors to visit them, talk to them, and help them arrange their 'possessions' - the trash was thrown out, and replaced by the need of neatness to receive these new friends once a week. It made my heart just jump for joy to see this happen.
Fear, loneliness, hopelessness and lack of respect for yourself can do serious damage and cause depression beyond a doctor's treatment if the 'patient' does not even know why they changed.
So, now I feel that when I talk to a stranger who has these symptoms, get them to open up and come out, I at least let them know that I am one person in this world who cares enough to just approach them instead of ignore them for fear that it's 'catching'.

I hope that I am making sense here. It is not catching, but everybody is vulnerable in today's society. All it takes is lack of motivation to keep on existing in this world. Once that motivation is gone, everyone can become 'infected'..

Anyway, I now understand where unmotivated people go... and we all know it is not a fun place to be and takes a lot of help and time to re-enter the world of the 'living'.

Now we just need influential leaders to recognize the symptoms and make plans, because this is a worldwide infliction, just as HIV, Post Traumatic Depression and more...

Wishing there were someone out there finally WAKING UP! How about Dr. Phil - he seems to have a big audience on TV, saw a few of his shows here - and wish he would handle more serious issues, but who am I to suggest that...

Love,

Cheryhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_11_2.gif

There are people active in saving animals, ecology, feeding the hungry, etc... where are the people saving a poor stressed, confused and lonely neighbor??

Every time I think I have considered all the angles, you bring more insight than I could imagine. I guess there are all kinds of problems in the world that everyone wants to help solve, but the issues involving the human mind are the most difficult to resolve. YES we do need influential people and leaders to step up, other than advocating more medicine. Medicine can help and is helpful but it doesn't help us figure out the origin of depression or mental illness. Why do so many people find themselves lonely, depressed and alienated from the rest of the world? What happens in our minds that takes us to such a desperate and helpless place. How do we reach out to others who surround themselves with things, or put barriers up so that they are unreachable? IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, I have never, ever considered myself depressed. I have never had any real earthquakes in my life to shake me out of my comfort zone and stability, UNTIL APRIL 21 2007.. the day my friends died in that plane crash.. I know that isn't what this thread is about and I am not going to change the dialogue for me.. I am simply saying that I succumbed to my sadness and disbelief and my little bubble I was living in, popped. I felt like I was falling into a deep hole of despair and I am still slowly digging my way out. I am not like I was before, I am forever changed, scarred and shattered... hence the shattered soul. BUT, I do have the ability to keep moving on, even though sometimes I really don't feel like it. I know the blessings and gifts in my life, far outweigh the sadness and the sorrow.

My point in saying this, is to say that for me, I think the origin of my sadness and depression is learning to anticipate, and handle the losses that I endure and the changes that occur and that are impending. I have never been great with change, but yet its inevitable.. and I do become attached to people quickly and losing them, no matter what the reason, always seems to take an emotional toll on me. I cannot speak for anyone else but I know that this is what I feel. I don't know how to embrace change and loss but I am slowly learning to accept what I cannot change. Having the tenacity and the courage to face what comes next, is a daily challenge, to say the least.
I don't always feel courageous, or tenacious and in fact today I feel rather sad for some reason. I don't really know why.. but I do.. I am strong for a while and then I somehow break down.. not as bad as my sister or countless others who are dealing with much more severe issues and illnesses, but none the less my heart hurts today.. and I am sharing with all of you that I am so completely imperfect and lost at times that I don't even know which way to take the next step, let alone the right path to take. Rationally I know that my purpose is to find a balance between helping others who need it and helping myself in order to grow and evolve spiritually and live out my purpose.. sometimes its just easier helping everyone else. I hope that someone out there understands my rambling because I don't even know if what I am writing makes sense...
I do wish there was someone out there to lead and help this nation in a way out of this mentally tortuous existence.. I think that if we only had to worry about surviving and not all this other petty sh!t, maybe we wouldn't have the time or the energy to be depressed.. but that is not how we live. WE are overindulged, oversaturated and we overanalyze everything that happens.. Maybe that is where we have gone wrong.. This is where the ones on the streets who are homeless maybe have it better than we do. They aren't living for material things, they aren't trying to keep up with the joneses and they aren't concerened about appearances or frivolous matters as looking young and perfect. Maybe we are the ones that need to learn from them.. Live simple.. stop looking for perfection and status and achievement but accepting who we are for what we are.. Completely and utterly flawed human beings.. maybe within that notion we can begin to be at peace??

If she put herself into the care of professionals once. Help her to do it again. Not helping because she can do it for herself is correct for children, or certain situations, but not this one. Your sister wants to be helped. Help her.

Shattered..
Every time I think that I am alone in some of my views on life, boom! You again confirm that I am not and that we have more in common than just this forum.

In retrospect, my recovered mental state (from childhood trauma and a bad marriage, etc.) changed drastically again when I lost a lot of friends and co-workers on September 11th. There were at least 14 on the lists from the Pentagon and Towers, I received from other friends. I cried, mourned, and even flew over on a scheduled visit to my brother in Las Vegas and passed my exams 8 days later. But when I returned to Germany, my existence and routine workload just was not the same anymore. It took a long time to get back to 'normal' because of the impact of the loss and helplessness. Also, knowing that the entire world would never be the same brought out newer fears in me. I thought that through therapy and strength things would eventually give me my past life back. But that never happened, and never will, because as an individual I cannot do anything to prevent it from getting worse or even try to mend some of the damage that is irreversible.


So, now take you and me... and then think of all the other countless individuals who have gone through similar 'Post Traumatic Stress'.. we can glean a bit of what is happening to all of us in some way. There is no way we can just go along life, and 'shrug' off all that has happened, but we do have to somehow keep going. Knowing and seeing what the 'psychy' can do and experiencing it in person makes me understand others a lot more, but as you said, we can only do so much to help - without being totally drained ourselves.


That is also why I cannot understand why the leaders of this world don't openly admit they see this too and want to do something about it...


Before going further, I think I'll leave it at this point and thank you for starting this thread, as I am sure that it has an impact on the future somehow. I myself might not live to experience a change in 'humanity' vs. human resources in abundance, but I do pray that things will change for the better soon.


P.S. I do understand your 'rambling' and know you can understand mine..
Lots of love and hugs to you and yours!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

I am not like I was before, I am forever changed, scarred and shattered... hence the shattered soul. BUT, I do have the ability to keep moving on, even though sometimes I really don't feel like it. I know the blessings and gifts in my life, far outweigh the sadness and the sorrow.

My point in saying this, is to say that for me, I think the origin of my sadness and depression is learning to anticipate, and handle the losses that I endure and the changes that occur and that are impending. I have never been great with change, but yet its inevitable.. and I do become attached to people quickly and losing them, no matter what the reason, always seems to take an emotional toll on me.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chery

I thought that through therapy and strength things would eventually give me my past life back. But that never happened, and never will, because as an individual I cannot do anything to prevent it from getting worse or even try to mend some of the damage that is irreversible.

---

I'm still working on this, myself. Realizing that nothing can "give me my past life back". Glimmers of understanding that through the experience of profound loss, I have "outgrown" my past life, and it wouldn't fit me now, even if I did get it back. Slowly releasing my attachment to it, turning to face forward. Sometimes, it feels like a "long, hard slog".

That really is true isn't is? Nothing can be as it was, but with patience and courage we move forward... not really understanding how we got where we are but knowing we have to face what is up ahead.
Life throws so many punches, you wonder when are you going to just get knocked the f@ck out?? I think facing the tough stuff doesn't get easier, we just learn to manage a little better with each new challenge or disaster..
My best friend of 28 years called me yesterday to tell me her step dad committed suicide and her mother found him hanging in the garage. HE had just went off his meds for depression, about a week ago.
SOMETHING IS VERY VERY WRONG HERE>... YEs we are going to be depressed and screwed up, that is normal... but taking drugs for every single ailment, that we don't even know the true long term effects.. IT JUST PLAIN DANGEROUS>. I know some people have no choice but damn... another person dead, killing themselves AFTER they go off their medication because the friggin doctor says they will be fine. HOW does this happen over and over and over and over?? CAN someone please tell me... Why

Oh Shattered I wish I could tell you why. It might ease the pain and save some lives. I believe that we as a society over medicate, but yet some that need it the most don't have the money to buy their medications. It is just so sad.

I honestly believe that the doctors don't know what they are doing most of the time. They all work on trial and error, and ruling out different symptoms, then studying similar cases - but to no avail.

The mind is a place that can be identified to outerspace and sends so many divert signals that it is hard to interpret.

Look at the 'father' of psychiatry.. Siggi Freud used a lot of mind-altering drugs himself.. maybe that's why he could go deeper into that space and understand it a little better. I'm not saying that one has to be on drugs to understand it all, but some drugs help stabilize some symptoms - but there is no known cure..

Leaving you with that in mind and wishing you and yours all the best.

Love,
Chery

Hi SS,

I have been reading this thread, on and off for weeks, sometimes it's nice to be a sideliner.

Chery is right about the pharmaceutical companies need for money, need for more money... etc,and how they justify it for' Further research' 'For the betterment of mankind'

Where are we in this soup?
Improperly cared for and diagnosed incorrectly,over medicated, or not medicated due to our own wants/needs.

You had a comment earlier in this post about some of us who need the drugs but the long term effects are unknown, I could write a novel about that one:(

Another comment was an eye opener about therapists needing to be on the level with their patients( mine is bi-polar) we relate well enough(although she being Female,doesn't make it as close as I would like)

Could Freud had been on the right track with the necessity for the pharmaceutical companies need to treat the chemically imbalanced mind, not the mentally stable one?

Oh well, I am simply checking in on this thread in hopes you and yours are doing well:)

Chat soon!

Ken

Hi Ken,
Its been a f@cked up week for me. Its hard to come on here when I don't feel happy and chipper and able to give advice. My sister is staying with me after getting into a physical dispute with her husband. My mom went up and got her and after two days, she couldn't handle having her. My mom's blood pressure is through the roof and I think her nerves about everything are causing anxiety. My sister's relationship with her is tense, to say the least. Too dependent upon her, not wanting to be a burden, and frustrated for all the ways she couldn't be there for her growing up, and because it really bothers her that my mom is gay. Well, we were on our way to the park last night with her baby who fell asleep. She didn't feel I was being very sympathetic to her complaining about how mom ruined her life and on and on about how her life is so terrible. Usually I am and I try not to get into any arguments. I walk on egg shells a lot with her. Well, I just couldn't do it. I was very honest and I told her she needs to stop blaming everyone else, start making decisions for herself and depending on us, if we aren't helping her become independent. Along with some other things I said, I really pissed her off I guess. She got out of the car and was screaming at the top of her lungs, crying and cursing, running around the parking the lot. I told her she needed to calm the F down and get herself together. I said you have a baby and you are a grown up. NO one should have the power to get you that upset. I told her that she chose to get married to that prick and give up on herself and that she needs to help herself because we all can't continue to do it for her. She doesn't work, she doesn't have a car now because she didn't get it fixed and now has no place to go. I want to help and I want to be supportive but I think some tough love is in order here. I wish I could explain it all but I have to get the kids ready for school and get to work. She ran off screaming like someone shot her and then came back and told me to take her back to her husbands house. I said I am not taking you there and maybe you should do it yourself. I didn't leave her there. I waited awhile and then she found me. She calmed down and apologized and actually was thankful and understanding of some of the things I said. I also said I was sorry for coming off like I did. Maybe my tone was harsh but I just have so little energy right now to deal with this. I wish my mother was more equipped to handle her. I know now I have to step up... oh boy.. what will happen next? I surely don't have a friggin clue...
HEllo all and thanks for checking in on this.. I think it may get worse before it ever gets any better. Love to you guys.

Shattered,
It sounds to me like you did the right thing. Sometimes we need someone to tell us the way it is before we will actually open our eyes. She obviously trusts you or else she would not have come back looking for you after her rant. You are a wonderfully caring sister remember that as times get tough. I wish your sister some peace as she sorts out her life, and you the patience and understanding to help her.

Hi Hon--

Sounds like you've got a bull by the horns there. Actually, hard as it may have been to live through, from my safe distance it sounds like something necessary and valuable happened. How tough to make the love, is the hard part, I know. You just have to find your own best self, and act from there. General principles are easy. Specific choices in particular situations are hard. I'll bear you in mind as I feed my cows in the freezing rain this morning.

--Cowboy

AHHH Tusc, patience and understanding seems to come so much easier with friends than it does with family, although I am not entirely sure why that is... I thank you for the encouragement and the advice. IT is nice to hear from you. I am sorry I can't jump in member discussions right now... its just a difficult time. So, thanks for checking in on me. You are always thoughtful like that.
Cowboy... I am glad you are here. I am having a really tough time and it is nice to know you are thinking of me. Even if you have to stand in the freezing rain... I do love the cows and they are so peaceful. Sometimes I think I should trade this crazy suburbia lifestyle for one like yours. I just don't know if I could handle as well as you do. Yes, the specific choices seem to be the most difficult. I find myself wanting to to help her find solutions, but she has to CHOOSE it.. instead of aimlessy wandering from one place to another and thinking something will change. I actually told her I think she should try to go on her own and stay at a women's shelter or something. Get herself some assistance, counseling and a fresh start, entirely made by her. WE pave the way, pay the way, guide her but we are never really helping her. Her learned helplessness is partly our family's fault, along with being lazy and not motivated and depressed. YET she says she wants to do all sorts of things, but never really does anything. She tells me I don't know how hard its been on her, and living in squalor and having nothing. BUT she does nothing to change the situation or better herself. Now my father bought her a plane ticket to come stay with him in Wyoming in some remote little town of 5,000 people. I don't really know what that will do for her. I told both of them that. My dad also gave her money for Christmas and she wants to spend $60.00 to get her hair cut, but doesn't have a pot to piss in. She makes no plan or has any idea of what to do with her money but will be frivolous with it. I told her that my friend can and would cut her hair for free, (Since she chopped it all off to a bob after her husband and her got into a fight.) IT was to the middle of her back. I said just let her fix it for you. She thinks that paying someone who she knows will do a good job is a better idea and wasting money that she doesn't have to waste, is somehow a good idea. So my mom is going to drive her thirty minutes from my house to do that on Wednesday. Do you see what I am dealing with here?? I don't mean to complain but GOSH~~!! I am just so confused because part of me wanted to leave her standing there acting like a complete crazy person but then I thought, what about the baby? I just don't know anymore what the right thing to say or do is and I am not sure I will ever know. I keep thinking if I do this, or do that, it will finally sink in, the lightbulb will go on and everything will get better, but it doesn't. I don't want her to be this way forever...
Cowboy, I am thinking of you too.. Tusc XOXOXOXOXOX Thanks to both of you... I feel very overwhelmed, sad, helpless, frustrated, confused and F@CKING EXHAUSTED!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuscany

Shattered,
It sounds to me like you did the right thing. Sometimes we need someone to tell us the way it is before we will actually open our eyes. She obviously trusts you or else she would not have come back looking for you after her rant. You are a wonderfully caring sister remember that as times get tough. I wish your sister some peace as she sorts out her life, and you the patience and understanding to help her.

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I'm adding to this post and including my emotional support all the way dear.
You are doing the best you can under the circumstances and you certainly have all my love and best wishes.

Your sister has a lot of past crap to work on, she should not blame your mom's choice of lifestyle for her turmoil, that's absolute BS if you ask me. There must have been something worse that she is suppressing.
Hang in there dear.. and you know we are here for you when you need to express yourself in any form.

Hugs,

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif