All of them lend themselves to objective descriptive sentences. I would show you only three that would be as "unloaded" as possible..Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
Why would you be nervous?
|
All of them lend themselves to objective descriptive sentences. I would show you only three that would be as "unloaded" as possible..Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
Why would you be nervous?
I don't know, I guess if it's totally objective then I don't have anything to worry about...
In part of the testing that the school did, there was this thing where you were given part of a sentence and you had to complete it under a time limit. There was one sentence with dialogue of 2 people talking and I could have filled it in with several different things that I was thinking of but none of them seemed quite right and they all felt like they would reveal something about me and I kept thinking there had to be a different answer that I hadn't thought of so I just said I can't do it. And it was the sort of test that had different levels so when you can't do something on one level they take you down one. So the previous level was just writing a sentence using 3 words they gave you and then I got to a question where I had a couple different things that I could've put but they all seemed wrong and there had to be a different answer so I started crying.
Are you a perfectionist?
Kind of I guess.. But this never happens with objective writing so it doesn't make sense that that's the only thing causing the problem.
So you'd have no problem with my assignment of giving three sentences in a minute for each of the three pictures.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
Weren't those objective?Quote:
a couple different things that I could've put but they all seemed wrong and there had to be a different answer
"reveal something about me" -- interesting.
Ask your next psychologist/psychiatrist of course, or the same person who suggested EEG scan for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
When you say "interesting" I think you mean "that means you could actually be avoiding the whole creative-writing thing because you are afraid of your writing revealing something about you". Correct me if I'm wrong. But then why does art not feel like that? Why would I only be afraid of revealing things in words, but never art? None of my theories cover everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Art DOES reveal a lot about you. I don't know why you don't think it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
I know art reveals things about me, I just don't feel bad revealing them like with words. Or maybe I know how to reveal the things with art in a way that feels right. Sometimes words feel wrong and they don't fit with anything. When writing a paper, even objectively, I obsess a lot about having the exact right set of words to say exactly what I want them to say. But with creative writing, there never is a right set of words. Anything I write is wrong. Sometimes someone else has already found the right set of words for me, and they're in a book or a poem. But still, if I write it, it doesn't feel true or right.
“-it doesn't feel true or right.”
Is this what makes you nervous?
So, if you can't express your true emotions then act as if that you are someone else, like Sherlock Holmes or anyone that come to your mind, can you then think of him/her as you, and act and talk normally, reveal your feelings (that person's feeling as if you were that person)? Can you do it without crying?
Can you read fictions, that talk about feeling and all that sort of stuff, without tearing-up?
Well that's kind of it, like I feel bad writing that because it would be wrong and I'd be lying to myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea
I have no problem reading things with feelings, I just have a problem expressing them myself.
Maybe I can try your idea to act as a different person in writing. It would be really hard though because I can't take away everything about me and just become that person, there would always be a little bit of me left. But that is an interesting idea because when I am speaking in front of a lot of people I'm usually very nervous. But when we were doing this play in English class and I was being a different character and all I had to do was say my lines I wasn't nervous at all.
(I wrote most of this about an hour ago and it seems incredibly stupid and wrong now. Everything I write becomes more horrible and wrong and untrue over time. I am resisting the urge to erase it and never think about it again. I am also trying very hard not to look at the writing above because I don't want to remember it. And I am also trying not to read any of my previous posts because they are horrible and wrong and untrue too. They might have had a little bit of feeling when I wrote them but that has gotten much worse over time, to the point of being unbearable and I have to type fast and not think or re-read any of my sentences, even the ones I wrote less than a minute ago because then I will feel like deleting them. When I think about it it's actually pretty hard to write this stuff but I try to avoid thinking about it because that could result in thinking about what I wrote.)
“Well that's kind of it, like I feel bad writing that because it would be wrong and I'd be lying to myself.”
I think you are having internal conflicts, to write or not to write, to say or not to say? But if you do it without thinking, then you will get it right (like you said). I think.
“Maybe I can try your idea to act as a different person in writing. It would be really hard though because I can't take away everything about me and just become that person, there would always be a little bit of me left. But that is an interesting idea because when I am speaking in front of a lot of people I'm usually very nervous. But when we were doing this play in English class and I was being a different character and all I had to do was say my lines I wasn't nervous at all.”
I was not suggesting that you pretend like you are someone you are not for the rest of your life. I just thought it could be a great head start.
“I wrote most of this about an hour ago and it seems incredibly stupid and wrong now. Everything I write becomes more horrible and wrong and untrue over time. I am resisting the urge to erase it and never think about it again.”
Everything you said so far sounds perfectly logical to me, when considering what you are going through; inner conflicts? Your mind tells you it is wrong/not you the more you think about it. Also, you can't control it, I believe. If I am correct, then maybe you should let your next psychologist (?) know about it.
I am not suggesting that inner conflicts (IF that is what you have) is the problem. This is just another possibility.
I'm conflicted because I want to write this so you can understand me and help me but I have to do that quickly or else it becomes untrue before I can even write it down which is what usually happens with the more creative / emotional writing.
The process of becoming untrue is kind of like radioactivity. Some elements decay so quickly you can barely keep them in a particle reactor long enough to know they're there, some elements decay so slowly that they actually seem to be stable.
You're trying to rationalize.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
Pressure to perform (write) -> stress -> fear of loss of control -> crying in frustration
Pressure to write > Trying to write > Everything wrong > Crying because ? I don't know why. It's not frustration or fear, I've cried because of frustration and fear and that's a different kind of crying. This kind of crying starts soft and slow at first but if I keep trying to write it results in hyperventilating and feeling like my throat is constricted.
I can't describe the emotions I have when I'm crying because I don't have any words for what that is. Not even words that are partially wrong.
Art is using your brain and hands/fingers and imagination -- so what is different about art from writing? Have you ever been told what to draw or paint, or is that always your choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
If you were told your assignment is to draw a cabin in the forest and surround it with wildlife, but had only 45 minutes to do it, how would you feel? Could you do it?
I could do any art assignment with a time limit, no problem. I like art class - I had 2 years of art in junior high, now I'm going to have a freehand drawing class this year, and then I'm going to the art academy at my high school. But I also enjoy doodling random things on the margins of my homework assignments and drawing whatever I feel like.
Words are difficult to put together because they are limited in number and meaning and you have to rely on grammar and syntax. Art isn't composed of small pieces of color that all artists have to use according to a set of rules.You can take any color, any material, anything at all and make art with it. If it doesn't seem right, you can change it until it does in whatever way you want, and eventually it will be right and true. But if I can't find a word that means what I want it to mean, I can't just change a few letters and say it means something else.
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
And there are huge possible variations.Quote:
and you have to rely on grammar and syntax.
Yes, you can. I do it all the time.Quote:
I can't just change a few letters and say it means something else.
I can't manipulate words to make them say what I mean. I know other people can, but whenever I try to say something - especially something with feeling - I only get an approximation of the real meaning. And as soon as that approximation is written down, the real meaning separates itself from the words and the words drift away into nothing and decay, and everything I write becomes empty and wrong.
“Art is using your brain and hands/fingers and imagination -- so what is different about art from writing? Have you ever been told what to draw or paint, or is that always your choice?”
Because there are left and right- sides of the brain that have different functions. So the right side of the brain is more subjective, and the left side is more objective. Could it be possible that her right-side of the brain has taken over/doesn't work right? Maybe it is some kind of disorder? She can't control crying, so maybe it's possible?
Well, you certain have done a stellar job writing in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
You actually sound like a poet. Do you judge yourself so harshly in other ways or just with your writing? The perfectionist in you...
Write me a sentence containing these words: Margie, sister, angry
Art, like writing, is subjective. If she couldn't do either of those but could rebuild an automobile engine or tutor trig, then you might have hit on something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea
All right, I know that particular sentence was actually pretty good. In terms of radioactivity, it might even be stable. But that doesn't happen very often, and I can't do it on-demand or with a time limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It's not really that I'm judging myself, the writing just loses its meaning over time and I can't bear to read it because it isn't true anymore.
"Margie's sister was angry."
Or : "Margie was angry at her sister."
Or: "Sister Margie was angry."
I guess I'd put the first one because it's the most obvious.
I was thinking about right vs. left and the left side usually deals with language but without it you can still have a very basic understanding of language, although if you disable the right side you can't understand the inflections in a person's voice, or things like sarcasm and jokes and subtextual meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea
My right-side can "hear" but not "speak" - I can read right-side oriented things like poetry and fiction but I can't write them. And also I hate it when people analyze poetry and art because it's painful. Almost physically. It's taking something creative (right-side) and doing something analytical (left-side) with it and taking away all its meaning and beauty. My english teacher disagrees and says you can't see the meaning unless you've taken the poem apart. And to me that feels like not just taking the poem apart but dismembering it while it's still alive.
But you have written poetry in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
The high school English teacher I had for three years said the same thing. Read a poem for its beauty, but explicate it for its meaning. Beauty goes only so far.Quote:
taking away all its meaning and beauty. My english teacher disagrees and says you can't see the meaning unless you've taken the poem apart. And to me that feels like not just taking the poem apart but dismembering it while it's still alive.
The word you're looking for is evisceration, not explication. When you analyze something for "meaning" you are pulling its guts out. You can never find meaning that way. You can only find death. And it's painful to watch a poem taken apart the way it's painful to watch someone bleed to death.
This is making me cry. And not the way I do when I force myself to write.
Maybe I can write poetry, but not when I'm asked to. And most of the things I write are wrong. They are only right when the feelings actually match the words I'm writing, and most of the time they don't.
What about "Jabberwocky"? Or "The Road Not Taken"? I need to know what they mean, the background, in order to appreciate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
Ah, thus the pressure thing.Quote:
Maybe I can write poetry, but not when I'm asked to.
Oh, but they do, they do.Quote:
And most of the things I write are wrong. They are only right when the feelings actually match the words I'm writing, and most of the time they don't.
No, they don't. What you hear is not always what I mean. What I say is almost never what I mean, and I know that because I can feel it. The entire English language is a maze of lexical gaps. That is why, when writing a paper, I spend more time reading the thesaurus than my paper. And I still don't get to say exactly what I wanted to. I sound poetic, maybe, because I read so many books that I've learned to borrow pieces of their sentences and put them together like a collage.
I guess poetry is different because the meaning is subtextual, like in art. But I still can't write something I'm told to write. If I'm told to draw a picture of a log cabin, I can make that picture true through the way I draw it. But I can't make a poem true because of the way I write it unless I choose what I write.
Also, it is very difficult to see what I'm typing and concentrate on writing when everything is blurry because I'm crying. Which is happening right now.
“I was thinking about right vs. left and the left side usually deals with language but without it you can still have a very basic understanding of language, although if you disable the right side you can't understand the inflections in a person's voice, or things like sarcasm and jokes and subtextual meaning.
My right-side can "hear" but not "speak" - I can read right-side oriented things like poetry and fiction but I can't write them. And also I hate it when people analyze poetry and art because it's painful. Almost physically. It's taking something creative (right-side) and doing something analytical (left-side) with it and taking away all its meaning and beauty. My english teacher disagrees and says you can't see the meaning unless you've taken the poem apart. And to me that feels like not just taking the poem apart but dismembering it while it's still alive.”
(Several parts of the brain take care of language.)
You do sound like a poet. But I think that breaking down poetry, or anything else, into little details takes us to the true nature of one's self.
Have you ever read “Catcher in the Rye”? You might find lost details if you pay a close attention, but it all depends on how YOU perceive them.
Words are like fish lost in the sea water, and because the sea water is so viciously dark you can't see through it. So if I am you I would take a swim!
Do you notice some people around you? If you take how they perceive/act/react… to a situation, label them in your head, and put them each into a category. You might notice, in time, that they will repeat the same behaviors over and over again. Thus, people are so predictable.
“Art, like writing, is subjective. If she couldn't do either of those but could rebuild an automobile engine or tutor trig, then you might have hit on something.”
Thanks for correcting me.
I guess that some people put themselves in a painting, while some force themselves to overdose (?).
"No, they don't. What you hear is not always what I mean. What I say is almost never what I mean, and I know that because I can feel it. The entire English language is a maze of lexical gaps. That is why, when writing a paper, I spend more time reading the thesaurus than my paper. And I still don't get to say exactly what I wanted to. I sound poetic, maybe, because I read so many books that I've learned to borrow pieces of their sentences and put them together like a collage.
I guess poetry is different because the meaning is subtextual, like in art. But I still can't write something I'm told to write. If I'm told to draw a picture of a log cabin, I can make that picture true through the way I draw it. But I can't make a poem true because of the way I write it unless I choose what I write.
Also, it is very difficult to see what I'm typing and concentrate on writing when everything is blurry because I'm crying. Which is happening right now. "
You are the meaning of your words. They will cry like a rainy day when you do, they will scream in pain when you are in pain, they will smile when you feel better. Once you lose that feeling the meaning will be lost too. But for the reader who goes through that, your words will live for them not you. Even if you will not feel them, others will.
My words are not always my words. Sometimes they are WRONG. I don't want other people to read them if they aren't true. I don't want to read them if they aren't true. I want to fold them into paper airplanes and throw them into a fire and watch them burn.
"You do sound like a poet. But I think that breaking down poetry, or anything else, into little details takes us to the true nature of one’s self. "
It doesn't take you to the true nature of anything! It only results in horrible pain and death and nothing beautiful left in the world! It is like watching someone you love die! It is painful to even read what you just said. It makes me cry.
And no, I have never read The Catcher in the Rye. But I suggest that you read Introduction to Poetry by Billy Collins.
You can't tell me the nature of my own writing.
When they are wrong, my words die. Fast.
And they don't live again, for me or for anyone else. If you can hear something in the words that have become wrong, you are seeing the corpses of dead meaning.
Why are you talking about death so much?
"It only results in horrible pain and death and nothing beautiful left in the world!"
Words result in death? What do you mean?
"It is painful to even read what you just said. It makes me cry."
I am sorry. I didn't mean to upset you on purpose.
I don't remember that you have ever told us how old you are. I'm guessing 15.
I'm 14 actually.
And when I say death I mean the poem dies when you take it apart. I read a poem in English class once and then had to listen to people analyze it and when I read it again it wasn't beautiful anymore. It was just an ordinary bunch of words. It wasn't a living thing, it didn't have an author's voice, it didn't have any soul left in it. I knew it was going to happen that way and I don't want that to happen again to any poem.
Evisceration is a more exact word for that process. It was in Ray Bradbury's A Graveyard for Lunatics, describing the state of Roy Holdstrom's studio and its plastic creations after it had been destroyed and vandalized, "His beasts had been eviscerated, decapitated,blasted and buried in their own plastic flesh."
It's kind of the same thing with art. It's okay when people say that the art represents a certain style, or is about a particular subject, but when people try to put the "meaning" of the art into words, it loses some of its meaning.
And that really makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
And age 14 makes perfect sense too.
Wait, why does being 14 make perfect sense?
Hormones churning, the search to figure out who you are. I knew your twin back in 1985. She was 15 then and said almost exactly what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
For some reason, "My hormones are acting up" does not seem like a response that a high school English teacher would accept for not being able to do my homework. Neither does "I'm searching for my identity right now. Check back in 10 years."
Although I could get that hormone test that my previous therapist suggested.
At 14 hormones are raging. At 14 young teens, especially girls, are searching for who they are and what they will be someday, how they will make their mark in life, who they will marry, how many kids they will have, how long they will live. My mother went through it, my sister did, my nieces have gone through it, my classmates went through it, and so did I.Quote:
Originally Posted by yttrium
I'm guessing no hormone test is necessary. You are 14.
If all of this is normal, all the other girls would have to nearly fail English too. I am the only one who nearly failed English.
Although I am not the only one who disagrees with the English teacher about analyzing poetry.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:29 PM. |