You may not need a diagnosis for treatment, it depends. I have been severely mentally ill all my life, in and out of mental hospitals for years. Ive seen all kinds of specialists, have been on disability for mental illness since I was a teenager and there is still no definitive diagnosis. Sometimes you just can't roll someone's group of symptoms into a neat ball that fits neatly into any diagnosis, but she may still find one. .
The question about were to go to find help, sadly comes down to money. You say she doesn't have insurance, so this reduces the options available. I would be curious to know if she would be elidible for medicade, I know its based on income and her husbands income would greatly effect this, but still worth looking into. I myself have medicade because my income on disability is so low. Im also wondering if she would be qualify for state or federal disability and again with her husbands income this would effect the amount she would receive. If she can afford it, or if she could somehow manage to get on a state insurance, I would say the best place to start exploring is at a university teaching hospital, where she could get psychiatric testing, psychological testing, neurological testing and extensive blood work done. All these things can be done on an out patient basis but if she is resistant it may not go over too well. Hmm, someone could become her power of medical attorney and have a bit more envolvment into her treatment if she were at the average psychiatric hospital, or taking it a step farther, someone could become her legal guardian so you may have more control over treatments. You want to rule out organic illnesses, brain diseases,perhaps get an MRI or CAT scan if you haven't already and cheak with your federal building and local family independence agency to see if she might qualify for financial assistance for treatment, and(if you have one) also check if she qualifies for treatment at your local community mental health clinic where you don't have to have insurance. Its very difficult to get a doctor to agree to the testing you want done, they are obligated to reduce the expenditure of medical dollars, so if something isn't blatantly obviously needed (but may well still be) they will deny you, but keep that these people, eventually they will break.
Sorry if I rambled, Im obviously very bitter at the mental health system but am forced to work within and around it.
Try not to be discouraged by her hospitalization attempt, nothing is ever helped in only a couple days in a hospital. If you fear for her, you can always get her involitarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital just to keep her safe, if it comed to this. You can get a petition for a 72 hour hold at the court house.
Cheak out earthhouse.org, it's a private conventional and alternative psychiatric "hospital"
In NJ.
I wish the best of all things to you and your sister...

Agrees: Yes, thank you Cheri, but Ken could you elaborate on what you meant here?

More... scrutiny?

It was the only word I could think of at the time.

I was a contractor for almost 20 years,learning the trades through the school of hard knocks.

Almost all my training was in the field,not too much schooling,just hands on.
While working on a new bathroom replacement I got to the wiring on the light and ceiling vent and got totally stumped,only 2 switches and I couldn't figure out how to tie the hot wires so the light would work separately from the vent,I tried and tried,breaking wire ends till I was sooo frustrated I finally swallowed my pride and asked a friend "What did I do wrong?""I just can't figure it out"

He came that night,after his 10 hour shift,and had it done correctly in 2 minutes flat.
Smiling at me he says"Sometimes we're just too close to the forest to see the trees"

Closer scrutiny might not have been the right wording,but now the clarification is hopefully here,you are so able to assist others being further from the forest,but your own trees are so close you can't see them.

I can feel your frustration,I see you reaching out.

One question,when was your last personal time out?Time away from the forest viewing?Maybe a look at the ocean instead of trees?Vacation is a broad term meant to mean VACATING ALL THOSE THINGS AND FINDING NEW PERSPECTIVE.

Hope this helps a little,

Ken

Dear shatteredsoul.

I know how you feel. I am of help to others because I can relate so much that they think I'm a psychic.
The reason I can help others, but not myself, is because my family will never understand the inner side of me.

Before my brothes were born, my mother had one objective - to vent the hate for my absent father on me. After they were born I was nothing but a live-in babysitter who got beaten when the little ones complained about something I did. My strife to please her never turned to fruition. My hatred of her was never understood by my siblings (half-brothers). She later turned them against me and it took me a while to convince my youngest brother that I was a human and that I raised him to be half-way tolerant of me. The older brother still hates me today and blames me alone for all the mishaps that have happened in my life, such as abuse, rape, even my heart disease and degenerative spine. These I was born with because my mother attempted to abort me and did not eat properly while pregnant. But to them, it's my fault and they will never listen to my side of the 'story'. To them, she was the loving and caring mother and they don't remember her sitting on the couch, smoking, drinking coffee all day and watching soaps while I took care of their daily needs and cooked. Ironic, but I love them both.

My continued struggle to maintain my mental health has alienated me in many ways, too many to count, but I now realise it will do no good with those who have not been there. It's hard to explain the inner turmoil to someone who has no understanding of helplessness and confusion.

If we don't help ourselves, who will help? It would be nice if there were more people interested in helping because we are no longer a 'minority'. /And, it's about time for politicians, medical/psychological groups start thinking about more than just saving money. When they realize that these disorders can inflict their own family members, it might work.

Until then, most think I'm lazy because I divert from 'life' by being on this forum, watching TV, listening to music and reading a lot. I also studied psychology because I had to find a reason for what I was going through, and through this I was also able to help others in the process. I don't practice, but I reach out and try to help anyone who comes to me for a little reassurance. I refer them to practicing professionals who help them further along their way.

As Meterre said, the need to be accepted, appreciated, loved, and most of all understood is our greatest wish. Until that happens, we are pretty much on our own.

The bottom line is that we have just as much right to be here as anyone else and that we deserve to be understood.

The care and love for your sister warms my heart and I hope you don't give up on her. Do the best you can and encourage her to seek help from support groups.

Lots of Love and Hugs,

Chery

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_19.gif

Wow, I am speechless after reading all of these heartfelt responses. I don't even know what to say, that is a rare thing.. if you know me!
METERRE, YOu have literally been through he! And back. I do not know why you are as level headed as you are. I cannot fathom all of the emotions and reprecussions you have experienced based on your upbringing filled with sadness, abuse, and isolation. I cannot relate to your pain or your suffering in the way some of these other people can. You are such a tenacious soul. You are frustrated with how you are managing your life, but how could you be doing any better than you are? LIfe is such a mysterious thing, it seems the ones with the most beautiful spirits, suffer the most. I don't know why. Maybe in preparation for the next life. However it is this life we have to learn to survive in. I am so blessed to know you and to have you open up those wounds for me to understand another perspective. Thank you for doing that and I know it must be difficult to go there, because you don't harbor any hatred to your family. You are a completely loving person and you have an immense capacity to move on and forgive those that have hurt you. I don't think I am that strong, maybe I am just too stubborn or immature. Either way, I understand how difficult it is for my sister to relate to me, take my support and to feel understood. More than anything you have shown me the isolation and alienation that you endure.. and that she is enduring. What is so difficult is not being able to change it. I have to surrender to something that I don't understand. IT is hard. Thanks for being my friend, as always your advice is genuine and loving and very open and honest. IT means the world to me... Thanks.
Delori, what you said made perfect sense.. you cannot always wrap people up into some neat little package diagnosis. That is more for everyone else's comfort and understanding.
I am going to check out that earthouse.og in NJ and I appreciate all your advice that you gave in dealing with the state. AS you stated, it always comes down to money. IT is sad but true. You have been struggling for so long, I wonder how do you come to realize that you needed help, and how did you finally get it? OR did you? Did you need someone to take over, or did you do it on your own. My sister has also been struggling since she was a teenager but we really didn't see how bad it was.. Now it is so much worse.
Becoming power of attorney, or admitting her involuntarily, might jeopardize her rights to her child. I don't want to take away the one thing she has, that she does well. IT is such a fine line of knowing what is right, and what will do more harm. I feel like I am walking on a tightrope and one wrong move might be disastrous. I am very thankful to hear from you and your advice is very helpful. I need all the support I can get, so you reaching out to me is really uplifting.
Ken,
You are a source of inspiration for many people. Please remember that. I am always looking forward to hearing your thoughts and how you feel about this subject. I think people who suffer from any mental disorder or illness, are the best teachers we can have. WE need to hear you, and learn from you.. because through you, we gain so much insight. Maybe your experience will not only help you grow, but help so many others as well.. NOt only for my sister, but for all of us with family and friends like this, or someone who is suffering right now. Thanks Ken
Cheri, YOu have always reached out to anyone you see in pain or suffering. YOu have spent your life being tortured and abused and yet your heart is bigger than most. I guess no matter what, they can't kill that wonderful spirit of yours. IT broke my heart to hear about your mom and your childhood. YOur mother must have suffered from her own sickness to treat you that way. I can see that you too are forgiving and loving, as METERRe. You still find room in your heart for your family. I can only compare that to the love Jesus had for those that crucified him. I am not a religious person, but spiritual, yet I had to say that. You are a source of comfort, light and awareness for so many. I am blessed to know you and to realize the goodness in the world, even when there is so much sadness and evil. You are living proof of turning the other cheek. Yes, you have struggled and suffered and endured so much, but look at how amazing you are now.. You are an amazing, wonderful person who shows me that I cannot give up.. I must be loving and forgiving for that which I don't understand.. I will. Thanks for teaching me that.

I don't blame her for being worried about taking traditional medicine with all the side effects.
There are a lot of good natural alternative doctors that can work miracles because they find the root of the problem rather than mask the problem with drugs.
If I know what area you live I would even try to find an alternative doctor in your area.

These are just two excellent alternative doctors I know of
http://www.painreleaseclinic.com/
And
Welcome to Pompa Health Solutions

Take comfort in knowing you're not alone, just like a lot of us, the unknown makes us feel powerless, but we should never give up hope. Life can be such a struggle sometimes that makes you just want to scream - do so, in the forest somewhere - I do, and it helps a little.

You know I will be here for you for as long as I can. Will be in hospital again next Monday, but won't let them keep me more than three days, that should give them enough time to do the test they want so that I get documentation I need to be a 'cancer statistic' which will help me a little financially. After that, I don't plan on seeing the inside of a hospital ever again.

A lot has been taken away from me in life (riches to rags - and no fun at all - it's downright degrading, but I will not let anyone take my DIGNITY.

If you've got the strength, show your sister that she is worth a lot more than she thinks and keep up the encouragement.

Love,
Chery
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_16.gif Here is some love and encouragement from me to you.

I should be the one comforting you.. giving you love and encouragement. YOu are fighting for your life, defending your dignity and trying to find decent care... and you have time for me. I don't feel very worthy, but your smily faces with kisses, truly lift me up. Chery,
Deserve to be protected and taken care of, not worrying about all these medical issues alone. Is there some way that I can support you or help you, like you have helped me?
I think that if anyone has a right to scream it should be you. I will not complain or feel sorry for myself, especially knowing your struggle and positive outlook and energy for everyone around you.
I wish I could hold your hand and be with you and fight those doctors for you. I am with you in spirit and very thankful to have such special people in my life

LIKE YOU!!

I don't know what to tell you about your sister, but I hope she gets better soon. I will keep you and your sister in my prayers. God bless!

Here is one but it looks like they are into spiritualism stuff as well.

South Florida Herbalists-Plant Spirit Medicine Meetup Group (Miami, FL) - Meetup.com

This one looks like a good possibility


Sherry Kagan, L.Ac.
Health Dynamics
11221 S.W. 114 Lane Circle
Kendall, Florida 33176
305/252-1774
Fax: 305/663-1578
Specializing in women's disorders, herbal medicine, nutrition, homepathy and acupuncture

Absolutely Florida Alternative Medicine

Shattered, thanks for all your kind words on behalf of everyone. Because even when I see someone giving love to someone else I can also feel that love and it warms my heart. On the most part because that shows me that the world is not only how I have experienced it but it shows me there is good out there. It might not always be obvious or accessible, but it is out there. So that calms me.
And also when I see you and others being appreciative of what sufferers can offer, it reminds me even more how it's not always black and white.
It's really sad how money is the key to being helped sometimes like in your sister's case. That is one of the reasons I haven't been help, at least not by professional care or anything.
But you know not only does your sister need support but you need it too. I can also understand how you feel helpless to her. So you need us and your family and friends to keep you positive... of course you need yourself too. You are a strong individual that no matter if you haven't gone through some the things we've gone through, you have learned a lot from life and others. So there's no reason for you to feel unworthy of anything, you know that different people react differently and cope differently. You too are worthy of so much especially for your heart that is also big, trying to help your family... and trying to help us, and being appreciative. And much more there is no limit.
Thank you all.

Well, I haven't been on for awhile so I don't want anyone to think that I don't appreciate and need your thoughts, advice or ideas on how to deal with the issue of mental illness within family.. I think that so many people have opened my eyes to the internal struggle that they face in having to explain, justify and have others understand what they are going through. WE think its tough to know or love someone with mental illness, it is 10,000 times tougher for them. My dad explained it to me like this. When you look at someone who has a physical impairment or disability, we understand that they are limited in certain ways. We do not have the same patience, funding, research or understanding, when it comes to someone who is struggling within themselves, even though it causes impairment, disability, or an inability to connect with others or deal with life. This is where we need to wake up as a society and start bridging the gaps in our awareness. NOt everyone has the same symptoms, many medications are very new and we do not know what reprecussions they have, sometimes until too late, and most of the time it just covers up the symptoms and doesn't deal with the source of where it stems from.
We live in a society that wants fast and easy answers. WE want instant gratification. (at least in the U.S.) We cannot take something so delicate and misunderstood and put big generalizations on everyone. I have also learned that many people who struggle have helped themselves, more than anyone else has helped them. People also learn to deal with and manage their illnesses alone, because of the lack of support.
That is just plain sad. THat is not acceptable. I don't have any answers but that is perfectly clear to me.
MY question to all of you that have responded, or have read this and thought they have some insight to this, WHAT DO WE DO TO BRING AWARENESS and UNDERSTANDING TO THIS? HOW do we help? I know that being understanding and supportive does help.
I know that insisting on medication is not the best answer. I have looked into some of the websites mentioned.
I want to know how we can make alternative medicine and more natural approaches to this, more available to the public.
We are dealing with the largest giant of a money making machine, it is going to be like fighting Goliath... THE Pharmacutical companies are largely responsible for our doctors, hospitals and mental health care workers pushing drugs on everyone. THe kickbacks they get are hard to deny, and just look at t.v. during the day. Almost every commercial is a drug pushing ad about your symptoms and how to take a pill to make it go away... IT is pathetic.
I am going to do my part and try to bring awareness to that , but I need your help.

FINALLY, my reason for going off on this tyrade is... my mom's best friend of 40 years has a son of 21 who has been suffering from depression and anxiety since he was like 12. His parents have money, the best resources and treatment available and have fought around the clock to help him. He also had a serious drug problem with heroine. They got him sober and out of treatment. He went off his meds and then back on... WEll He committed suicide on Sunday.
He took an entire bottle of ZOLOFT and drank alcohol. His parents found him in his room with a note. He said he just couldn't take it anymore. I feel so sad, it brings up all these emotions and concerns about my sister. My parents are worried and so distraught. I know that there isn't anyone specific to blame, but it is another life gone because of MENTAL ILLNESS..
I love my sister, I support her, and I will never EVER give up on her.

I wanted all of you to know what is going on, because you have all been so honest and open on here. IT means the world to me, to have your deepest issues and emotions put out, to help and support my sister and I.
My friends, reach out and continue this... Let's do what we can to be aware, to understand, and to learn.

SS,
So very sorry for your loss, I am sure your mom's best friend's family must have been close to you through the years.

Yes, in fact my mom was friends with her before she had me. My mom was a nun in the convent and met her in her 3rd year as a postulate, when they were allowed to go to college.
She is an amazing woman and she tried for 10 Years to have a baby. THen she had three in a row. I was like 10 when her first was born. They are all incredibly bright and beautiful kids... Sebastian is the one who took his life. Beautiful Sebastian. His mother and father feel so defeated. My mother's heart is broken for her best friend.. I think it also makes her think of my sister.
Firm, thanks for responding... XO

It is so sad... I don't know what to say. But I guess now more than ever you'll probably be standing by your sister's side, knowing that she could sometime have a fragile moment and do something.
I stand with you in you trying to reach out to people so that society can be more aware of all this. It is something that just has to be done, it cannot keep going on in the dark. I know from my own experience that it really is hard to deal with these types of illnesses. One minute it seems like there might be hope, the next you just feel tired of life like this. Had I listened to those thoughts of 'i can't take it anymore' I wouldn't be here, I would've been long gone.
And yeah I support what you're saying, how America thinks that just by taking a pill it'll all be fine, but it just isn't. And until we get everything clear in our head, it'll keep going on. So whatever you want to do about this just say it and I'm here to support. Your sister needs you, we need you. Great idea.
So sorry about what happened to that young man.

I am so so sorry to hear that this as happened Shattered.

My thoughts, even people who apparently have the best treatment are still suffering and do not necessarily get the help they need.

Joe

I wanted to share with all of you what Sebastian's brother said about him at his memorial. I know that this thread is about my sister and her situation, but this has directly affected all of us. Our entire family is in awe of the love and support that have been put forth from everyone who knew him. My mother sent me this message from Sebastian's mom and I thought it would appropriate to share with all of you. I appreciate you reading these words and commenting on however you feel about it.

My mom had a terrible time telling my sister what happened. I think we were all fearing her reaction. However, I think she handled it as best as she could.
Here you go...
These were Eric's words at Sebastian's memorial service. He really knew him well and appreciated his uniqueness:

I think it is a testament to the richness of Sebastian's soul that despite his monumental suffering and heartaches, he could allow himself to celebrate the absurdities of day to day life. At the moment, the brunt of my sadness is that I know I will never meet anyone who could make me laugh as long and as hard as he could. But even though right now my heart is broken, Sebastian left me a wealth of smiles and laughs, enough to last me an eternity. This doesn't soften the blow, but allows me a pleasant, peaceful place to drift when the tempestuous waves of my family's griefs seem unconquorable.

I laugh when I think about us getting lost in GErmany together, where Sebastian suggested that we should just give up and start our lives anew as "German people." I smile when I become self-conscious aroung strangers or unfriendly acquaintances, because I know that if he were there, he would try to catch my attention, so he could make wickedly inappropriate yet wickedly funny face to ease my tension.The memories he gave me are more precious and unique than anything I could ever hope to own. I know that some of you never met him and for that I'm sorry. His astounding intellect and cutting wit were ony matched by his gentle nature and infinite generosity, all traits he owned modestly, and shared with complete strangers as well as loved ones. I am proud to have been his big brother, and also consider myself so fortunate to have had him as my best friend.

I would like to share something with you all, something that Sebastian had written. It is written in an unconventional poetic way and seems to be an untitled personal manifesto. I think it's the most beautiful thing I have ever read and to hear these words of his is to know the wonderful depth of Sebastian:

I am for now, no longer looking at the complications of existence (that I unintentionally choke myself with through voracious observation) as insurmountable, but as a challenge that I am ready to accept or that I will gladly accept when I have more independence.

I want to:
-read about the physical sciences and mathematics so I can undestand the properties of my restrictions and dream up ways to overcome them.

-stick with linguistics and learn as much as possible about our primary source of communication, apply rhetorics, expand my vocabulary to maximize self-expression through language.

-As for the intangible (yet somehow undetectable) blanks in this plane of consciousness, they will be filled, in as they traditonally are, through art and music.

My sister and I had a long conversation the other night about the difficulties of speaking of our brother in the past tense. How funny he was, how smart he was, how talented he was. But Hillary and I agreed that we will never refer to our love for Sebstian in the past tense. We love him now as we always did and always will

What his brother said about him really touched my heart. I wanted to share it with the people that also have a way of doing the same thing...
I wanted to add that although it is difficult for those of us who love or live with someone who suffers like Eric did, ultimately we see past those things and see those we care about as human beings with so many gifts to offer. Thank you to my friends who read this and share their thoughts. I care about everyone single one of you.

Hello ss. Firstly let me say how lucky your sister is to have someone like you, she is truly blessed. I to have had problems with my mental health since my early twenties, I'm now 34. I've read your thoughts and the thoughts of other in this post and there is some very good advice. While I know some people are very against the use of medication to treat mental disorders, speaking from experience I feel they have a very important place in help people to address their problems and learn to overcome then. Believe me I really thought that my life was over once and seriously considered taking my own life. Only with the intervention of medication was I able to get a grasp on reality and reclaim my life back. I now have a pretty normal life and a wonderful wife and children, all of which was incomprehensible back then.

I hope you can see that medication does have its place and saves lives.

I really wish you and you family well with everything

Disciple72, I want to thank you for thoughts and interest in this thread. It has been very difficult trying to find the right way to be supportive and helpful, without being overbearing and creating more dependency. I agree that medication can be very helpful. I know it is not easy to diagnose, or decide which medication is appropriate. I am glad that you were able to come so far, and have such a productive and fulfilling life. The difference in your situation is that you were open to using medication, and my sister isn't. She is so well read on antidepressants and has an overwhelming fear regarding the side effects. I also know that some medications, when stopped, cause suicidal thoughts in some people. Sebastian was a severely depressed and anxious young man. He was very bright, articulate and loving, but was also addicted to heroine. He was on medication and in and out of therapy and rehabs for years. He had just come home from his last about with rehab and seemed to be doing well. However, a couple days before he died, he starting drinking and his parents found him on the couch passed out. His mother told him that if he didn't stay sober or continue to fight for his life, he could not continue to stay in their house. He asked her, "ARe you sure about that?" She said yes. I am sure that conversation has resonated with her and made her wonder what she could have done different.

That is what is so hard, everyone around those struggling with some sort of mental issue, don't know the right thing to do or to say. I fought with my sister when she lived with me when I was pregnant with my son, and told her if she didn't like it, to leave. Two days later I got a call from Florida Medical Center that she was in ICU for a drug overdose. There is so much frustration, helplessness and guilt that seems to circulate amongst ourselves. I don't know how to take that and turn it into something positive and helpful. It was this thread that made me think that maybe by reaching out to others who suffer, that I may gain clarity and insight. I also want to respond in a way that is effective and helpful. I think in the past that my family and I have done too much, and that has caused resentment in my sister and sense of inferiority and feeling incapable. She doesn't feel like a grown up and doesn't have a sense of self. She relies on us too much and then hates herself and us to an extent because of it. I know she loves us, it is more a hatred for herself. IT feels we are spinning our wheels and I want to get out of this rut and move forward. I cannot change her or anyone else, but maybe by my growing, changing and understanding others like her and you.. maybe I can help make a difference and encourage her in a different way. Please continue to share, it means the world to me. I don't feel so alone in the fight, when others like you reach out and care.

Oh my Shattered. I am so so sorry for all that you have been going through. Sabastian's brother did an outstanding job remembering his brother. I think it is so important for you and your family to have an open line of communication with your sister over this. Which it sounds like you are doing. The most important thing is that she knows you are there. No matter how angry she gets, she knows that you will be there.

You are a strong strong lady. Please know you can count on us for support.

Thanks Tusc, just you coming over here and supporting me gives me strength. It has been a tough year for me all the way around.. but there are so many people who suffer so much more. I have to keep it in perspective. I try to stay focused and determined but sometimes I feel so weak. You guys give me hope when I start to feel down and defeated. So I reach out to you to find strength within... thanks my friend