Quote:

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Originally Posted by asking

I didn't realize I was off topic. One of my main points is that I don't have an addiction problem with opioids--at least that is what my doctors tell me. If I did, I don't think I would need to set up my computer to remind me to take the medication... I am talking about things that make me NOT want to take my medication (the thread topic) and one of those causes is the external perception that anyone using pain medications is abusing them. Ironic that you should decide that my true topic is addiction.
Asking

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I didn't move that idea over to addictions because of you, I did it because that is where it belongs, we can absolutely keep this going in here,I never would tell/judge someone's use of medications as addictive behavior!(ME a recovering addict,would HATE someone if they judged me like that!! )

My sincerest apologies if that is how it came across( at the time I posted that, I had just read the update from admin about posts,perceiving our subject matter might be getting off track and trying to stay with the overall concept of AMHD )My bad.

Lets start back, If you'd like,

Ken

Sorry I haven't been around lately. School schedule has been extremely hectic. Will be over on Wednesday for a month. I will start working soon. I finally get to start using the procedures I have been taught. I'm very excited.

Well, back to studying for finals.

TTFN

Just out of curiosity, do you ever use music to medicate? I find listening to certain types of music works as well as medication under certain circumstances.

For instance, I am a hopeless romantic (shhh, don't tell anyone, I don't want my tough persona to be given away), but whenever I feel stressed or like the world is coming down... I play some positive romantic music. Well, not really romantic, but... Like, right now I am hooked on the song Her Eyes by Pat Monahan, it just tends to relax me.

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Originally Posted by J_9

Just out of curiosity, do you ever use music to medicate? I find listening to certain types of music works as well as medication under certain circumstances.

For instance, I am a hopeless romantic (shhh, don't tell anyone, I don't want my tough persona to be given away), but whenever I feel stressed or like the world is coming down....I play some positive romantic music. Well, not really romantic, but... Like, right now I am hooked on the song Her Eyes by Pat Monahan, it just tends to relax me.

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Now that's good therapy music,

... Gemini/Capricorn... interestingly enough I am a Gemini :D

I am an oldtime rocker and of all things '80's new waver.:o , My music choices have been with tremendous memories involved(good and bad) but more to the questionable/bad.(dark side) hurt is easier a memory for me to remember than fun or happiness(wonder why?):confused:

Hope studies are going good.

Ken

Interesting you are gemini... No, I'm not, but for some reason it does not surprise me that you are... Let me ask you a weird question if you will... Are you eyes green? I'll tell you why I'm curious after you answer the question.

Now, I have found music to be very therapeutic... All kinds of music really, for different situations. Yes, there is what I call "mad music," you know that headbabing cr*p, but in certain circumstances I have seen it work wonders with patients.

I have studied the therapuetic effects of music and find that it can even aid the meds.

NOT green, Not blue, not hazel,not black,not gray, that leaves?. Brown?? (with a black ring around them)

Music soothing the savage beast huh?

Soft 80's and weird punk rock sometimes do the trick too.

Dang, you see I am doing some research on green eyes and physical and mental health.

You have never heard of music therapy? I'm sure you have. 80s, punk, etc... I have found every kind of music works for every person, depending upon the particular situation... Just more mental health research I am into.

**Edit**

It's not that it soothes, but actually helps relieve frustrations... kind of hard to explain, but I guess soothe will work. Releases aggravations, etc.

I seem to have lost asking on here,I didn't mean to offend,just a little information towards shame.Now I feel bad.

Anyway, I am Toxic(not shame this time either) been swelled up for 3 days now, went to ER and got the boot:(( typical, no insurance, no care!)So my local PDOC is out of the country till January, Also typical,and his replacement suggested the ER, did it, Now what?(can't even close my fists anymore) I stopped my AM dose of Depakote(its the one that swells me up)and I am still swelling steadily, have to see what the AM will bring,looks like a trip inpatient again.

More later today(maybe,depends on the PDOC and the hospital)

Ken

It has been 4 days and the swelling has diminished,it seems to come and go,slightly.

Medical doctor says it could be the tomatoes in my diet,plus salt(OK too much salt) so I cut it off,the salt that is.

Been back on the Abilify,Atarax,and Depakote,and swelling up for the winter,I should get a job as Santa this year,got the shape down for sure.

I am increasingly dissatisfied with the depakotes' side effects.the swelling is going on and on,medical doctors say it is just what is going to happen(I am beginning to look like a beached whale)(ORCA anyone)

Sleepy most of the time(seasonal depression) and not interested in a lot of 'normal' activities,life being one of these.I am not suicidal,just listless.

I am beginning to struggle with the meds idea again,so it is going to be question the professionals again about what to do(I am clear enough on that right now, if only I can keep a good enough attitude for their advice,then follow it.)

Ken, sorry I haven't been here for you lately, been busy getting Christmas ready, and about to take the kiddos to school. But will be back shortly.

Hello all, Merry Christmas from Illinois,

Medications are not at their all time high today,I slept for almost 5 hours last night and feel a little groggy this AM.

I have been sleeping almost 16-18 hours a day for the past few weeks,hence, the lack of posts(and responses)

My best guess,sleep too much,feel guilty for doing it, sleep 'normal' feel a little groggy,but alive anyway.

I have gained a few pounds this winter on these meds and I want to take it off soon,more activity(as Bluerose stated in another post) and less sugar in my diet(as my brother stated in his last e-mail)might just do the trick!

Anyway,just a quicky while I feel the good mood.

Ken

Hi Ken,
Glad you had a cheerful moment. Those meds, I think that going off them is part of the disease. Can you work them into your routine so that they are not easily forgotten, tape them to the toilet flush handle, or put them in a hard container in your pillow?

My husband bought me some soap. It was on the kitchen table. I didn't know it was even there, but I was in the kitchen grinning from ear to ear. Sage soap. Well, maybe it's just me and the sage.

Sugar is both depressing and addictive. It can be harder to stay away from it this time of year.

I went away for a while because I didn't understand what KBC was saying about addiction. I still don't, to be honest. I was just hurt and felt humiliated--bad time of year--like I had talked too much and needed to be silenced. Also, importantly, I have been trying to meet a writing deadline (still haven't finished my project.. ), plus all the extra demands that happen this time of year. I would like to get back to talking here though, as I think this stuff is important. I'm sorry for being silent.

I stumbled on a copy of Bradshaw's book about toxic shame and read some of that a couple of weeks ago. My boyfriend had it on his shelf. I still think it's apropos to this thread. It looks like our discussion is back here after all? I never did know where it went for a while. I don't understand how threads can be moved or what a sticky is. There's still a lot about Ask Me I don't get.

So anyway, about a month ago, I got a pill box for myself-- one that says Sun, Mon, Tues, on each of 7 little compartments--and it has helped me remember to take my pills a LOT!

My boyfriend who is on antidepressants also forgets whether he took his (and is really weird when he forgets.) I gave him a pillbox even though he didn't like the idea, thought it would make him feel old and decrepit.

A friend called me to wish me happy holidays yesterday and after we talked awhile, she asked if I was still on meds, and I know she disapproves of my using pain medication.

I'm glad KBC had a cheerful moment on 12/25. I can't remember if you have tried light therapy? It helps me a little if I make a point of getting out in the sunlight first thing in the morning and getting a certain number of hours of bright light each day. I haven't tried an artificial light, but I figure it can't be as good as Old Sol. But both can't be bad, yes? I hope everyone here is having happy moments and making beautiful moments.

Happy New Year!
Asking

Now I am dancing on glass with bare feet!

I will again say, I didn't mean to sound judgmental(that was a perception)My words were for the further discussion of shame and toxic shame to be,also, included in the addictions area.

My opinion is based on my life(addict,hence addictive thoughts,alcoholic,hence alcoholic behaviors and sensitivity to them both)I am a selfish person by nature,making all topics about ME(the most important person in the room... lol)If I saw addictive behavior, I mirrored the image unto myself and began to go off topic with the ideas of shame and toxic shame.

Truly, I didn't mean any harm, and again I apologize for any misunderstanding between us.

KEN

KBC,
Oh! Now I get it! This is actually the first time I understood what you meant. Thanks very much for explaining again. (I think I understand. Because to me toxic shame and regular shame can apply to anything, not just addictions. They can apply to procrastination or lying or infidelity. Yes? My only addiction until now has been coffee. I am now on Fentanyl and methadone for pain control (broken back, sciatica, more), and the pain doctor and others say I am NOT an Addict, just chemically dependent, but of course society says I'm addict and I'm filled with middle class shame about that. I don't know which kind it is yet.) Anyway, put your socks on and sweep up the glass. :) I obviously have my own issues... I am probably selfish too.

It is a beautiful first day of the new year. I woke up too early -- 4 am, probably mild depresssion. So I got up then and wrote and read some, fed my cats, took a walk at 7 am, then went back to sleep from 10 am to 1.

I had this plan to go to a lower dose of medication to see if I can handle my pain without so much drug--which causes me to go into mild withdrawal every other day. I was supposed to do it next week (my plan), but it depends on finishing a chapter and I have sabotaged myself by procrastinating on the chapter. So basically, I can't do it until I do the writing job. Nobody says I have to do this, and my doctor told me last year I shouldn't rock the boat if I'm functioning and able to work. But I think MAYBE I'd work better on a loser dose of fentanyl, have fewer ups and downs every two days. No way to know without trying it though and it means taking some time off from my obligations. It's hard to plan, but I know that is just excuses.

Happy New Year!
Time for resolutions--exercise more to reduce my chronic pain, stop procrastinating, manage my kids better, get on a lower dose, and maybe earn more money. Those are mine, in that order. Do others here have any?

OK, my ISOLATION is in full bloom,, go figure... lol

I am totally complaint to my meds though, still this has been the best winter I have had for 20+ years now,same meds,same everything, just no winter time deep depression yet,maybe it'll just not show up this year,here's hoping!

I hope to be back in AMHD more regularly in the near future.

KBC

Ken, I can mildly relate.

I have quit smoking... so the nicotine withdrawal has become awful. Not just on me, but my family.

I go back on my meds next Friday. This semester is already becoming too hard. I need something to help me get over the hump. I go through this every few years, and with my father's background, I can see when I need a little extra boost.

Well, back on the Celexa and the Klonopin next week. I hope I can wake in the mornings for school.

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Originally Posted by J_9

Ken, I can mildly relate.

I have quit smoking....so the nicotine withdrawal has become awful. Not just on me, but my family.

I go back on my meds next Friday. This semester is already becoming too hard. I need something to help me get over the hump. I go through this every few years, and with my father's background, I can see when I need a little extra boost.

Well, back on the Celexa and the Klonopin next week. I hope I can wake in the mornings for school.

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Hey, hope the meds help you,I know you understand them and use them for the right purposes.(but the stop smoking thing... ugggggh, really tough, I am routing for you!)

What is the April deadline?

Ken

April deadline? Oh, that, in my siggy. I am deep in school this semester, deeper than any other. I have less time now to spend with my family, thus even less time to spend here at the desk. Last day of school is April 28.

The quitting smoking has been a little tough, but with the help of the Chantix it's much easier than cold turkey. I hope the meds work too. This is a combo I have always been able to rely on with my situational anxiety, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they work again.

How have things been going for you? Days still aren't long enough I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by J_9

April deadline? Oh, that, in my siggy. I am deep in school this semester, deeper than any other. I have less time now to spend with my family, thus even less time to spend here at the desk. Last day of school is April 28.

The quitting smoking has been a little tough, but with the help of the Chantix it's much easier than cold turkey. I hope the meds work too. This is a combo I have always been able to rely on with my situational anxiety, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they work again.

How have things been going for you? Days still aren't long enough I'm sure.

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Nope days are still a little short and snowy lately(and that -22 degrees stuff),but I am really doing well for this time of year(surprisingly enough)Meetings and friends in need keep me going daily,now if only the winter were over and (warm) fresh air was coming through the barn... hmmm wishfull thinking I guess.

TTYL,

Ken

Well since my last post I have had a loss of consciousness due to? (not sure)

My Depakote level has been increased another 500 mg. (now at 2500 mg daily) and I am swelling up like a balloon, I love food and feel ravenous while on this medication, slowly but surely I am trying to ween myself from eating for comfort.

I have had increased 'diabetic' feelings(the need for sugar, food necessity to stave off dizzy headedness, etc.)

My last episode was a few weeks ago so I am thinking this was an isolated time, not a repeat of many years ago(thank God)

The med Dr. questioned the loss of consciousness as a seizure as I am on anti seizure medications for mood stabilization! (but who knows) All meds don't work all the time for their purposes right?

Hope all are well, busy and content in life, and hope to hear from my friends soon,

KBC

Ken,

I am so sorry to hear you are going through all this trouble lately. I am left wondering if you are not experiencing side effects from the combination of meds rather than one med alone or the lack thereof. But I am sure your med Doc as considered that.

Combinations? Possibly but who knows.

The daily headaches are troublesome and until I have my Depakote level tested(this week) I'll not be able to discuss the over medication issue with much authority.

Thanks for the heads up on the idea of too much J

Ken

Sounds like you need a trip to the doctor no matter how far you have to go. I agree with the one post that says this sounds like a mixed episode. Bipolar disorder is nothing to take lightly. I'd get to the doctor the sooner the better.

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Originally Posted by HelenAg

Sounds like you need a trip to the doctor no matter how far you have to go. I agree with the one post that says this sounds like a mixed episode. Bipolar disorder is nothing to take lightly. I'd get to the doctor the sooner the better.

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Thank you HelenAg for your response.

I can see the med Dr.about once every 2-3 months(sounds barbaric but it is the way of the system out here in the sticks.:( ) and the regular Dr. has me seeing a Dr. of Neurology tomorrow for the seizure episode.

KBC

OK, I am still on the meds as prescribed,not the ATARAX though, that was an 'as needed' med,although a few manic highs are to be expected, a new seizure is worse than a lack of sleep!

The EEG results are coming back soon and an MRI test tomorrow will be the next step in the process.

Thank You J for the info on the ATARAX, that will be coming up in the next chat with neurologist and med dr.

KBC

Hi Ken,
I have been off here for a long time. I had to force myself to get some writing work done and I was finding myself spending too much time here. But I finished the chapter I was writing, so am allowing myself to visit. Very sorry to hear that you are having troubles. I hope the neurologist was able to help some. What did the MRI and EEG indicate? I don't know anything about your meds, but you have my sympathy and I agree with all who say to find out what caused you to lose consciousness. I know how easy it is to let things go when they just happen once or it's hard to get a doctor's attention. Often they tell you it's NOT something but they don't tell you what it IS. And you are left wondering.

Take care,
Asking

Hi I am new so I hope I am doing it right. About saying on your medications, I am on a lot of medications right now, but I am thinking about going off some of them. I have found out that a lot of times my body will let me know if it is helping or if get is hurting me more. One thing I do know that in the U.S.A went you go to doctor's office that you are going to walk out with a prescribed medication slip. I am also a person on pain medications, and I hate it, but without it I can not do a thing for myself or family. Right how I have my nurse wanting me to go to all kinds of doctors. I do not want to do this but if I do not she will take me off the pain medications. I have been going to her for about 9 month or more, but she has told me not to come back until I have done what she told me to do. She has done this 3 times ( Not we doing about not follow what she tell me to do.) One of them was about money I own he she knows I am having A hard time paying but keeps having me do blood work done and boy I can not afford it, but know if I do know do it I will be told again not to come in. I am so mad about being on the medications in the first place Like one of you her office is 30 mile away from me. Sorry I have to go right how I am hurting so I hope I made sent. Debbie

Hi Debbie, I too am on pain medications and formerly was on a lot more drugs. I have been able to get off several of them, with difficulty. But I am still on two Fentanyl and methadone. They help a lot but also are problematic since it doesn't take much to go into withdrawal and not be able to think clearly. This week, for example, I broke up with my boyfriend and forgot to replace a fentanyl patch, leading to major withdrawal and inability to function.

I don't understand why you are seeing a nurse for your medical care instead of a doctor. Is this a free service? Ask her to help you figure out the financial end of things. Do you have someone to help you with any of this? To help make plans and carry them out? It can be very hard when you are either coping with intense pain, or slightly fuzzy from the pain meds. I know! Good luck.
Asking

No further loss of consciousness since stopping atarax and increasing depakote,but I am left wondering about the lack of motivation I am going through.

Normally by this time of year I am through the depression and on to the springtime 'manic' or just normal energy.

This year is a little different than most.(in more ways than one)

I didn't hit the low this winter which I normally would, but I am also not getting out of this rut yet either,my guess is that there might be a necessity for more changes in medications.

Well Dr. KEN is on break and the med doc is the right way to go, here goes.

KBC

Hi Ken,
I hope the med doctor can help.I'm very sorry your depression is dragging into the spring...

My sister's been depressed this year too and I'm definitely unmotivated regarding my work life. I've been down a lot. I haven't been working much since March. Lots of exhaustion, whether from my medication or something I don't know.

I told my doctor I wanted to try getting to a lower dose of my pain medication and she persuaded me to try going off entirely to see what my baseline pain/tiredness was. So I spent the weekend in withdrawal. I wanted to see how deep I could go in how few days. But I gave in Sunday at 2:30 am, after going cold turkey, and went to a half dose of fentanyl--from 50 mcg to 25 mcg. I'm still in withdrawal. Pain is tolerable but not very nice. Still, I'm proud of myself for being at a half dose of fentanyl compared to a week ago. Maybe in a week or two, if I stabilize, I'll go the rest of the way. Then I'll know what my normal level of pain really is and go from there.

Is lack of "ups"/mania ever age-related?
asking

Is lack of "ups"/mania ever age-related?

I have heard that this manic/depression is not something that gets better with time, but worse in severity (unless medicated properly)

Time will tell if there is any changes.

This winter was more even as far as depression, but I still isolated a bit, now I am coming out of my shell again and seem to be wondering about a little lost sometimes,work is not very appetizing.

Thanks so much for responding to my post, asking, I really do understand the withdraws and necessity to keep on meds,even if we think we don't want to,working with the med docs to move beyond an area we think we might be able to tolerate the pains, hmmm, sometimes we need to stay medicated,pain is pain, sometimes we have no choice,I know I have no choice about needing to stay medicated,use good judgment on the decision and remember I am routing for you! :)

Ken

Thanks, Ken! Very nice to hear from you. I don't know whether I'm "supposed" to be on these meds or not. The pain doctor encouraged me to stay on; my regular doctor talks about "all those drugs" I'm on disparagingly, although I'm really only on one drug, plus a tiny amount of one another. Friends the same, some supportive, some judgmental. I don't know what's right, but it clearly affects me a lot in some bad ways. I'm always tired and often sick, but I don't know if that's related to the medication or something else, so I'm trying to get off to find out. I'm definitely not in much more pain on half as much fentanyl, so there's no reason to be on the higher dose.

I had one good morning yesterday, but otherwise I've been in weak withdrawal pretty constantly for a week--like I have a hot coal in my chest all the time and can't keep a thought in my head from one minute to the next. Wish I could have a day off. Thanks again. Glad things were steadier for you this winter, even if not great. I hope you get some ups soon. Have you taken a hike, seen anything beautiful? That helps me, exercise and wilderness. I found a pretty frog in my backyard a week ago.

Well... I am starting to question the meds again:(

I sleep more than I am awake now(for the past 4 months)

My weight has increased from the lack of activity and the med doc. Wants me to stay on the meds like they are?

I am losing trust?belief?in the doctor.

This is a red flag in my Manic/depression I know,common sense and being correctly medicated are important and I am looking for an outlet(thinking about using street drugs again.)

I have even thought about getting off the prescribed meds so mania will return and there won't be any conflict with the other drugs.

I know,I know, this is just another case of crying out for help, but I am just looking for an outlet for this crazy frustration( I miss the feelings of being high mania brings)

KBC

Hi Ken,
I feel frustrated for you. I can only imagine how hard it must be to be struggling with these conflicts and urges. Sometimes life deals us limited options, not the one we want. But think about what's best for you in the long run, not what is going to bring temporary relief. It might be worth the trouble to find another doctor you trust more to give you a second opinion you can live with. You could spend some time looking for someone known to be really good in this area.. . I would talk to someone else before making any changes.

I don't blame you for not wanting to feel sleepy all the time. And while I can imagine mania must feel good, it'll be followed by depression that I assume is really painful and bad. Yes? Surely it's not worth it.

What kind of street drugs are you thinking of? What happens when you take them?

Take care. I'm thinking of you.
Asking

Street drugs?

Cocaine, it keeps me up for a while,expensive but I have been through bouts of on and off it over the years,I can take it or leave it as needed,maybe that's a part of the manic/depression... chaos theory,up or down,no in between.

I do realize this is a little pathetic,, why complain about it, just go do it.But maybe I'll not need to use if I write.

Thanks for your responses asking, they do help:)

Ken

I wish I could really help! But I don't think it's pathetic at all to talk about this. That's what this thread is for. It's good to talk about how you are feeling--what you are going through is very hard. I can see that. And I don't judge you at all for feeling like trying something different. I have been to lots of lows myself, and sometimes just saying something out loud puts it outside of you where you can see whether it's a reasonable idea or not.

I've used cocaine, though not since I was a lot younger. I can see the appeal for a given day. (I admit I loved it at the time, though I never used much, in part because I couldnt' afford it.) But it seems like it would increase the number of problems you have to deal with over periods of months versus of days. It's expensive, illegal, which means you have to worry about this and that. Is there a down period after you use it? And does a person habituate to the dose and have to take more gradually? For me those would all be considerations. Plus, I think I remember your daughter lives with you? Even if she's an adult, I would think about how it would look to her, how it might affect her image of you and of herself.

If you actually think cocaine is going to be better than what the doctors are giving you and CAN give you, I wouldn't necessarily say you shouldn't. It's a matter of balancing the pros and cons. But there are definitely some cons...

What did you think about getting another opinion from another doctor? Someone with stellar credentials. Is that something you could do?

Hoping you feel better soon.

Wow Ken, Ive been there. Sometimes it gets weird being weird all the time. There are social conventions that I worry about, but can't keep up with them all.

I mentioned this before, and you said that trying a different drug without a doctor's prescription was not your first choice. I talked to you about Salvia Divinorum which is legal. It has made my life incredibly better.

OK

I have been diagnosed and I am now being treated for diabetes.

New medications,new symptoms,you know all that new stuff.

I've lost 10 lbs. in a month due to a change in diet/less sugar intake(diet mountain dew instead of the real stuff)

I am a lot more fatigued today than in the past ,might just be the idea of another "incurable" problem in my body/mind.

Anyway,the new Dr.(one for diabeties) has me taking metformin,glipizide, and of all things, baby aspirin.

Most AM blood sugar levels are around 100-125,not too bad considering what they were before the meds(575 or so)

I am off the depakote and atarax... now its lamictal,citalopram(celexa) and crestor,, gota watch those cholesterol levels you know...

Staying o these meds has been easy so far,just got to keep doing it for the rest of my life... HA.

More later,

KEN