Good, I'm glad you got a doc who listens. That is very important. Some docs just think that the world revolves around them.
Oh, yeah, I was going to go lay down. Toodles.
|
Good, I'm glad you got a doc who listens. That is very important. Some docs just think that the world revolves around them.
Oh, yeah, I was going to go lay down. Toodles.
OK,I am feeling very homicidal tonight,have been for about,ummm, a few days now,since preacherman judged my response to the post,man did that upset me,now I have gotten many PM's and other posters showing their support.
It's becoming an obsession, this hatred, I am even bringing it up in my support groups, My buddy is rolling his eyes at my repeated stories, same theme, different day...
My daughter is driving me batty also, I wonder if it is all me and my perspective, or a few situational processes which combined are becoming a larger stress issue.
Maybe its just that I am becoming more critical of the world as a whole, I haven't been able to find the answers yet, my mind clouds with fury when I think about most of this for too long, my heart beats strong and hard for release, release of anger and violence.
Soon I believe, I will either act-out , someway, and either become depressed(feeling guilty for doing something I probably shouldn't do) or the other swing, go high road manic and get hospitalized( that hasn't been my way for over 20 years though)It feels as though it is coming to a head.
Tomorrow, I see the mad doc,, OH I mean Med doc,, and will bring this post in with me, just to see what he suggests,who knows , he might have a solution for this madness.
Ken, I am so sorry you are feeling like this, but you know that acting out would be wrong. What would it solve other than you getting into trouble?
I understand that it's hard going through a time like this, it really is, but you know as well as I do that acting out would serve no real purpose.
We all get critical from time to time, that's goes for all of us. Yes, you can blame it on the depression, but is that what it really is? Nah, I feel like that too once in a while.
Maybe you will go high road, I hope not. I hope you don't take either path, but stay on the straight and narrow.
I haven't read the thread that upset you so much. But there have been some for me too that upset me beyond belief. But I have to remember that these are just words on a screen and if the people actually KNEW me, they may not say what they say.
There is a certain degree of "comfort", if you will for lack of a better word, for people to post just anything they want to say, not taking feelings into account, at a place like this. And I have to remember that when people get me riled up. Sometimes it's just better to walk away for a short time.
Please keep me posted as to what the Med Doc says tomorrow. Lucky you have one that will listen.
Tomorrow is today... lol
Again my sleep was short lived and we're going to have a change of meds, I just feel it coming on.
3 hours and counting, not like it is going to be a cure all, just to be heard by a professional, in a face to face, there is a certain clarity and security in seeing someone treating you in person.
This isn't saying I don't appreciate you J.
Trust me, You are a great help for me in AMHD,I value your input and advice greatly.
I'll post what I get answers to today,Open mind,willing,accepting,honest,, My mantra before seeing the pros... :)
Had a few hours sleep and need more, just not yet.
Hope the test is awesome for you today(I think I saw that somewhere else on site)you'll do great.;)
Thank you for your support,
Ken
Oh, tomorrow is today, see how tired I am from studying, I didn't even look at the post time, silly me.
Ken, I know you are very appreciative, I hope you didn't take what I said wrong. I know you are.
I hope everything went well today, please keep me posted.
I did it again. I took a half a methadone tablet to the kitchen to take it with water this morning, had a bowl of cereal and never took the methadone. By noon I was in withdrawal and feeling overwhelmed. I felt like I would never be able to cope with all the things I have to do--write a book, take care of my kids, manage my finances, etc. I finally took "another" half pill, feeling angry with myself for my weakness in having to take more than my allotted dose. I then slept for two hours, got up and was able to function and pay bills, talk to my son when he got home from school. Later, I found the pill I hadn't taken.
Oh.
I proceeded to blame myself for that too. Not allowed to make mistakes. I have been coming back here to see how KBC is doing. Well, I hope.
Asking
Wrong? I don't think so, respecting friends opinions is a good sign of recovering,'constructive criticism' is commonplace, and necessary.Is all good over here:)Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
My therapist was out sick, but the replacement was a really awesome guy, we hit it off right off the bat, DR was typically quick and to the point, prescribed ABILIFY along with the rest of the meds I am on, No other changes yet.
They are loathe to give scrips for adavan being the nature of the controlled substance.(It works, in other words, and the system doesn't want that out... cynical me;))
Worked 12 hours yesterday, and slept 12 hours on the meds, feel groggy today, but have to press on,things to do, people to see, places to go...
I'll be back on soon enough, and I hope you did well on the latest test J_9, And thanks for your support,
Ken
Abilify huh? And you are wanting Ativan? Hmmm, Abilify is much stronger.
Glad to hear you finally got 12 hours of sleep, it's about time isn't it?
Well, I just popped in to get your update.
Test went very well hopefully. I was the first done in the class and that NEVER happens. The only thing that bothers me is that whenever I feel I do really well, I fail the test. When I feel that I failed it, I ace it. Scores are usually in by 4 pm that day, but we won't be getting our scores until later this morning.
Take care Ken, I won't be on today as I it is Tuesday and I will be in clinicals until 5:30
Glad everything went well for you.
Hi, Asking!!Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I'll kick you if you like,, :):):)
I haven't missed med times very often this round,once or twice,mostly the Depakote, being an extended release I was able to take it without overlapping(at least I believed it... hmmmm)
No bad side effects with them so far.
One or another med has made me forgetful, I need a definite time when I take these buggers, so I don't miss any, 6 am and 6 pm, if at all possible that's seems to be good times( one other med is at noon also)
I hope you don't have too many more days missed, it's only human to miss one or two, but again I can kick you if you'd like, share the love... ;)
Seriously, it's only a lesson learned and I hope you don't berate yourself that much.
Thanks for looking in,
Ken
Abilify huh? And you are wanting Ativan? Hmmm, Abilify is much stronger.
Glad to hear you finally got 12 hours of sleep, it's about time isn't it?
Well, I just popped in to get your update.
Test went very well hopefully. I was the first done in the class and that NEVER happens. The only thing that bothers me is that whenever I feel I do really well, I fail the test. When I feel that I failed it, I ace it. Scores are usually in by 4 pm that day, but we won't be getting our scores until later this morning.
Take care Ken, I won't be on today as I it is Tuesday and I will be in clinicals until 5:30
Glad everything went well for you.
Abilify huh? And you are wanting Ativan? Hmmm, Abilify is much stronger.
Glad to hear you finally got 12 hours of sleep, it's about time isn't it?
Well, I just popped in to get your update.
Test went very well hopefully. I was the first done in the class and that NEVER happens. The only thing that bothers me is that whenever I feel I do really well, I fail the test. When I feel that I failed it, I ace it. Scores are usually in by 4 pm that day, but we won't be getting our scores until later this morning.
Take care Ken, I won't be on today as I it is Tuesday and I will be in clinicals until 5:30
Glad everything went well for you.
I'll say! Sounds like a good thing to me, too. Glad Ken's appointments went well, too and I hope the Abilify works well.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
K, Thanks for taking over the hard work of beating up on me. :) I need to put the cudgel down now and then to let my arm rest. I forget a fair amount, although I don't mean too. Just a day dreamer, I guess. I will get one of those pill dispensers from the pharmacy and see if that helps.
J-9, I hope your test went well, too.
A
Sleep comes and goes, either both medications are overwhelming or its just me, I am sure I need the rest at times, but who knows, it could be that SAD beginning.(Doc made reference to it, before I did even, knowing the increase in anti-d's isn't too far off,which will effect the sleep again anyway)
Going from 2 meds to 4 in less than 2 weeks, what's next I wonder?
TEST RESULTS? (Tapping foot,, tap,tap,tap... LOL :p)
Anyway, HAPPY TURKEY DAY EVERYONE
Ken
OK, have sleep down to a science.(whew)
Lessening off the Ambilify and hoping the anger/aggression isn't too bad(? don't know where this came from,like alcohol withdraws... :()
Had a stressful day yesterday and vented properly(and maturely,not common for me)I am happy with the results.
Family is finally starting to get read to leave,(out of the 13 total,3 no shows,4 already here full time,3 leave today, 3 Sunday afternoon)YES, the holidays are full of stress.
Hope everyone else had a nice,pleasant thanksgiving(those that celebrate it)
Ken
Hi, Ken, good to hear you are getting some sleep. Over the past few days I have gotten probably too much sleep. Just catching up from all the times I had to get up and out of the house before the rooster crowed.
So, were you just to take the Abilify for a certain amount of time? Is this just a short term med when you are in a manic phase?
Oh, the test. Yeah, I passed. Didn't get the grade I had hoped for, but I still passed. Next test is going to be very tough so our study group is going to start meeting twice a week.
I had a great Thanksgiving, thank you. Sounds like yours went well.
TTFN
For a certain amount of time,, no,I am self medicating again,in a sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Yes during the manic phase I for sure needed the meds, now I am sleeping,almost like a normal person, and don't feel the need to take this or the Atarax,Yes it sounds like self medication,and probably is.Being on the holidays I am unable to contact therapist/doctor but I will when Monday comes.
Reason for not taking meds:I have shown signs of lethargy in the daytime as well as the morning, due to over medication, I am not a doctor, but the recipient of a treatment which I can feel is over the top for this phase,I am almost back to steady, I don't want to be too groggy nor too manic.(like any other time) just regulated.
Hope this is a rational explanation,(self doubt still creeps in and makes me wonder if I am setting myself up for SAD, or more chaos than I truly want.)
Twice a week study group,you must really want this profession, just to work with the likes of us loonies? ( but at a better pay rate,, ;) )
TTYL
Ken
Ken, I don't consider it self medicating when you have been on the meds as long as you have been and you know your body's chemistry. After all this time, you pretty much know what works for you and what doesn't.
You will know when the time comes to up the meds so that you will stay on an even keel.
You are sleeping again, you are off the peak of the manic phase and that is good. Just remember, and I know you will, when you start taking that uphill ride on that rollercoaster to start back on the same dosage you have been on. It worked so well for you this time.
Please call the doc tomorrow and let him know of your plans.
Study group did not happen today, too cold and rainy, everyone just wanted to stay home with their families. Oh, well, no big deal, I have been planted at the kitchen table since Wednesday with all my books and notes. So, I'll be okay... I hope!!
TTFN, take care
KBC, I agree with J-9 about it being reasonable to regulate your medications but to tell your doctors what you are doing. Nice that you are sleeping again and not too sleepy during the day. I know that feeling of wondering if the good feeling is just an intermediate nice stage that you are going to pay for later. I worry about that kind of thing all the time. But your reasons sound totally right to me. The idea is to function as well as you can. The medications are supposed to help you do that, not make things worse. (I have to remind myself of that a lot.) Some doctors are really rule oriented and don't react well to self regulating--they see it as non compliance. But a lot of health professionals do understand. I try to be honest with my doctors, though some of them make it hard...
My pharmacy switched generics on me last week and I have been having a really hard time with the new patch, which is 3 or 4 times as big as the old one and gives me a nasty rash. I'm small and am running out of places on my body that aren't inflamed or even bleeding to put a new patch. It has to be a place that doesn't bend when I move, or the patch wrinkles and doesn't stick. The bigger the patch, the worse the problem. The pharmacy won't let me trade the patches in because they don't carry the old brand anymore, so I'm going to try to find a pharmacy that does. Then I'll turn in my unopened boxes to the old pharmacy (Walgreens) and try to get the prescription back and take it to the new pharmacy. And that's if things work out. Every time I think I've got things streamlined, there's some new hitch. Last month, the date on the prescription was wrong and the HMO wouldn't pay for the drug. Both the pharmacy and the HMO said if I filled out the right paperwork, I'd be reimbursed the $200. But when I got the paper work and filled it out, the HMO turned me down. I get discouraged. This month they paid for it, but now I'm covered with icky sores.. But I think I'm pretty lucky. Yesterday, I went out on a whale watching trip with friends and family. We saw orcas and a humpback whale. :-) I doubt I could do that without pain control.
J-9, What kind of class are you taking? Glad to hear you passed the test!
Asking
Asking, I am a second level RN nursing student. I graduate in May and plan on specializing in mental health.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I'm happy to hear that. You sound like you will be a good one. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
A
I sure hope I will. LOL... It's a long hard road, but well worth the effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
OK back to the no sleep dogs I go,
Dam*, this is getting extreme,this time is definitely stress, daughter is going to get a bootrear soon( yes, a pun, Very punny today)
I just got off the sleep meds, and it creeps back the next day... HMM I wonder if its just me?. LOL No, I know its life on life's terms, I am not dealing with a belligerent daughter very well.
How are asking? J_9? Hope all is well.
Its another cold day here(just hit 30 at 8:00 AM) sweats and T-shirt weather:)
Just thought I would post and try for a medicated nap for a while.
TTYL,
Ken
Sorry you are not sleeping again. Do you do all the usual, go to bed at the same time every night, have a ritual? (I always read for a few minutes, something not too upsetting--NOT the news!) Often I take a short bath before I go to bed so I feel clean and warm. It helps. Warm milk or cocoa is not so bad either. Mainly it's getting my mind off stuff. I also take benadryl occasionally or when I'm really desperate, Ambien. But that stuff was so hard to get off last year, I'm afraid of it. Plus if I take it, I wake up nauseated.
Pain usually keeps me from sleeping, sometimes anxiety, or both. What keeps you up, Ken? Is it harder to fall asleep, or harder to stay asleep? Do you fall asleep easily, then wake up later?
I didn't get the pun. Bootrear? How old is your daughter?
I've been busy, with lots of people for thanksgiving, plus family staying over the weekend and more get togethers. I'm happy today because I am finally going to get some disability for my three years not working. The government kept turning down my claim, which felt like they were saying I was making up the pain, but a judge finally ruled in my favor. I feel vindicated. The money will be nice too...
It's suddenly colder here too, but only in the high 30s at night. It warms up during the day. Sleep well...
First the pun(from a Piers Anthony novel) Bootrear, (instead of rootbeer)=A drink that gives you a kick in your rear:)( I am a big sci fi reader,Anthony Donaldson, Gemmel... etc)
Oh yeah, My sleep patterns are on time,not any different than anyone else's anyway( I am a first shift type person, liking daylight more than night)Its not only pains(physical, muscle cramps and such,and emotional, stress from this and that,, daughter,family.)It is also the manic mind, more than and separate from the emotional.
Reading before bedtimes,, EVERY night( you ought to see the collection I have)lol
I would rather not take meds at night for sleep( my PM med time is 6 pm.) the sleeping meds prescribed this episode are 'just before bed'
Most nights I can fall off without any effort, due to reading(makes the eyes tired... etc) mostly it is staying asleep, mind getting 'shocked awake' from images, dreams,as well as muscle cramps(especially in the back of the legs)and once awakened, I am panicky, needing some kind of stimulus to distract the mind as to not be stuck in the SAD zone,I am fighting this winter so I DO NOT go down the depression road I have been down for 30+ winters.
My daughter is 21(emotionally challenged, somewhere around 13-15)I have my hands full with her, but it is not impossible, just tough.)
Anyway, I am sleeping OK on the meds and this note is my AM log in so to speak.I am off to work today, just about to call it quits on contracting , just a few more projects.
Have a good day E1, How did that Quiz go J_9 Its was a breeze wasn't it:)
Ken
I like sci fi, too. But I get it from my son, some Timothy Zahn, Neal Stephenson, etc. I could use some recommendations. I prefer ones where the women don't faint every time something happens though.
Sleep. Getting shocked awake is bad. That happened to me when I took an antidepressant for a few days. It was so scary, I wouldn't take it anymore. I'd rather be depressed than heart poundingly scared in the middle of the night. I won't tell you what I dreamed because it was creepy, but even after I woke up, the images and feelings were still with me--as if it was real, maybe still happening. Something like that?
I have you tried yoga for the muscle cramps in your legs, just simple stretches right before bed? Sometimes when I hurt, I get up and stretch right there on the floor at 3 am. Don't know if that would work for you. It helps me if I really do it, not just for a second but for 5 or 10 minutes, gently though because I'm not warmed up. I get cold out there and then I snuggle back under the covers grateful for the warmth and things are sometimes better.
A difficult daughter sounds really hard. I have a kid whose not that difficult and he still keeps me worrying and frustrated. Won't get a job.. Does she go to school or work? Have other adults in her life who can share the burden of helping her? I hope so.
This sounds morbid but when I get really anxious in the middle of the night, I think about what would happen if I were to die the next day and couldn't do any of the things people want me to do or need me to do. I feel sort of off the hook then. Then anything I get done seems like a plus, instead of never enough.
This week is a good week for me, although I was in withdrawal all afternoon. The pharmacy wouldn't let me exchange my patches. I came home and gave up, watched Red Dwarf with my kids and fell asleep.
My daughter is for sure working( she does like to be the overachiever)60 hours a week right now.
Anxiety during the night,and questionable self-esteem during the day,these make up who and what I am( to a degree)
I say this because of how my latest helper comments to my self-degrading comments( I mean them as jokes, he sees them as self insulting)He keeps saying, "Take it easy on yourself" I don't even see it as negative 'learned' behavior.Bu hindsight being 20/20 it just might be.
Anyway,back to the meds, My sleep has gone from the up at 3 AM to sleeping as soon as I can(after work) till I wake 2-3 hours later, then up till normal sleep time(around 9-10PM)And up at 5 AM, not regulated well, hopefully just for now.
Some memories have been affected by the meds, short term and now what seems mid term are hazy at best.Not sure if the side effects are from meds or sleep patterns,maybe a combination.
I see the therapist in 2 days for a session concerning this and a few other issues(daughter and how I deal with her stresses, which are mine too... HMMM co-dependency? YUP)
Looking forward to work today,finally finishing a multi-day contract with many add-ons,might just be able to do the bills for December after all.:)
Ok, long enough today, TTYL,
Ken
This is an interesting perspective. It's true sometimes people think I'm being hard on myself when I just feel like I'm just observing my own behavior. But being used to beating on oneself isn't necessarily the best thing. I do feel better when I ease up generally. I'm going to think about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
This is exactly how I've been sleeping recently, except I force myself to get up sooner in the evening, afraid I won't sleep later. (Doesn't help!)Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
Memory problems are incredibly inconvenient and hard to explain to others. You can say it, but people don't necessarily believe the things that one can forget about. I suffered from really bad memory problems for a year after my surgery, was never sure if it was the anesthetic or the pain drugs or both.Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
It feels good to bill others and pay one's bills... a sign of functioning.
I'm self employed; I doubt I could keep a regular job.
Asking
It feels good to bill others and pay one's bills... a sign of functioning.
I'm self employed; I doubt I could keep a regular job.
I HAVEN'T MASTERED THE QUOTE IN HERE YET, ANY ADVICE WELCOME
Yeah, I am self-employed( as much as one can be with contracting, Still work for someone, right?)
This reason alone has made me stop contracts and begin the 'In-house' cabinetry,with the onslaught of SAD and ups and downs of Bi-polar I can work as needed, quality can be at my convenience(again to an extent).
Memory problems while working from a paper list 'cut sheet' for a chair, or even a 'off the top', table design, is a world of difference from outside building.
Anyway, I am sleeping like normal for this time of year(All day if I could)I hate it.
I see the therapist this AM and will again bring up the constant changes, I feel so less than,(thats the depression) but non-the-less I do, can't seem to keep the demon off my back.Can't wait till these 2 contracts are done( one done today 'delayed from helper no show':mad: )
OK hope every one has a nice day
Ken
I try not to think of it that way. For one thing I don't have to work for anybody I don't want to if they are jerks. Obviously if you need the money, you swallow a certain amount of stuff. Still, contractors CAN say no, unlike if you have a real boss. And the more clients you have, the more freedom you have to turn people down.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Yeah, I am self-employed( as much as one can be with contracting, Still work for someone, right?).
Good for you. If it works and lets you get by, it's good. I do pretty much the same. I work on long-term projects, so I can have bad days and make up for it another time.Quote:
This reason alone has made me stop contracts and begin the 'In-house' cabinetry,with the onslaught of SAD and ups and downs of Bi-polar I can work as needed, quality can be at my convenience(again to an extent).
I'm feeling exhausted by the roller coastering with my boyfriend of 7 months. After no relationship for 6 years, it's so nice to have someone to hold me, hang out with--the good part. He's a good talker, and cheery most of the time. I can't bear the thought of giving that intimacy up. I can easily be convinced that things are good, and I am incapable of staying mad long enough to break up. But there always seems to be a new little kick in the gut. Today one thing, next week another. I swing from feeling resilient and capable to feeling like a complete wimp (today).
Asking
I'm feeling exhausted by the roller coastering with my boyfriend of 7 months. After no relationship for 6 years, it's so nice to have someone to hold me, hang out with--the good part. He's a good talker, and cheery most of the time. I can't bear the thought of giving that intimacy up. I can easily be convinced that things are good, and I am incapable of staying mad long enough to break up. But there always seems to be a new little kick in the gut. Today one thing, next week another. I swing from feeling resilient and capable to feeling like a complete wimp (today).
Asking
What are the roller coaster feelings?That has got me confused, Are you bi-polar?(or just female?. LMAO,, just kidding... LMAO)
I know the little kicks,when rationalized, don't look so bad, 'till one day you realize your co-dependent and living for the other persons happiness instead of getting your needs met( like returned feelings ) DON'T BE A WIMP!!
Your worth happiness and contentment,express yourself, I remember I commented a while ago to another about them needing to be the goddess they are!( sheesh, and me being a woman hater... LMAO)Find that happiness with or without him, what's another few months/years when happiness is compromised? Are you truly happy if things are like this anyway?
I am off on a rant now, I would do anything to keep happiness/serenity,sometimes it is just fleeting, other times I can control the chaos, not it me.
I don't know, where do we find contentment? In companionship? A bottle? Medications? A favorite pet? TV shows? Writing? Reading? You know, the list is forever.
CAN I BE HAPPY IN MY SHOES?
ANSWER: No, not always, especially without medication.
DOES THIS MAKE ME LESSER THAN OTHERS:
Sometimes I believe it does( wimp mode)
Maybe I am just tired and ranting(probably) but I am struggling with life and relationships too, having been alone for 3 years and without close companionship for that long, on top of that the holidays coming up, another year alone through Christmas isn't too fun looking(Daughter and family notwithstanding)Do I reach out? NO. I sure don't keep to myself, just don't reach for the closeness which brings chaos and those 'kicks in the gut'
Enough for tonight, thanks for posting,it les me know there are a few who read my posts too.
Ken
I liked that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
By the way, if you select something you want to quote and then click the icon that shows text in a cartoon balloon, it shows as a quote. Same way you made red and blue text.
I don't know where contentment lies, in our hearts, I guess. Usual answer. And in all the places you listed and more--in the first sunlight falling on frosty ground at sunrise. But contentment is mostly ephemeral. Being in withdrawal from fentanyl is no recipe for contentment, I've noticed.
I know some people can choose to be contented, regardless of their circumstances. Lots of new age advice basically says to ignore your externals and do that. The Secret, Byron Katie. I find it a bit weird. What about reality? Still, there's some truth in it if you don't take it too far. My older sister is losing it and says weird things and hates me, though she used to dote on me. So I can brood about that or just say, so be it and watch the sun rise.
Someone spills tomato sauce on my carpet, doesn't apologize, and jokes while I clean it up. I can choose to take offense, or I can choose contentment. What's the "right" answer?
Asking
I feel a lot of shame that I can't do as much as other people, can't work as hard, need to rest all the time, feel constant pain, and can only function with medication. I feel shame that I have moods I can't control when I run out of the drug. That I get panicky when I can't renew my prescription and the folks at the pharmacy give me this knowing look and talk to me like I'm a street person trying to scam my fix. The medication is just one of my shames. But it's a potent one.Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
Maybe it would be easier to resist that tendency to feel shame if we could pin down where the message comes from that mental health and moods are shameful, that not being able to function without drugs is shameful. I know it's not entirely something I invented by myself, even though my friends are quick to tell me there's no reason to feel ashamed. The message comes from out there, too. I'd like to be able to identify it when it's coming in, maybe shunt it aside.
Some of the message comes from the war on illegal drugs. Just say no, etc. And, also, I remember when Reagan closed most of the mental health facilities in California. It seemed to send a message that people didn't need or deserve help, that they just needed to pull themselves together.
Okay, I need to start my day. I feel as though you brought this thread back around to the topic you started and that's good, KBC.
Just trying to get the quote thing downQuote:
I liked that post.
Got it Thank you
Exactly where trying to stay on meds is such a challenge,sometimes I feel justified and correct in my need for the meds, other times I am so ashamed, I would rather hide from everyone and self loath.Quote:
I feel a lot of shame that I can't do as much as other people, can't work as hard, need to rest all the time, feel constant pain, and can only function with medication. I feel shame that I have moods I can't control when I run out of the drug. That I get panicky when I can't renew my prescription and the folks at the pharmacy give me this knowing look and talk to me like I'm a street person trying to scam my fix. The medication is just one of my shames. But it's a potent one.
Shame is the factor I see that kills my spirit(on a depressive mode) and is non existent(on a manic mode)I have been through many years of therapy,trying to learn as much as possible about bi-polar disorder and human psychotherapy(Being a Gemini, I am an INFOMANIC)never enough information for the likes of me.
Shame I learned from a close friend(counciler/therapist) in a treatment facility for addictions.
Kevin taught me about Toxic shame and typical shame,I probably can't quote his words or what I truly learned, but I did understand the very base of my shames.(and how to combat them correctly)
Is this something I can spell out in here, not right now anyway, I am medicated to the hilt today and I am losing cohesion to my thinking. I'll write more about this soon,
Ken
I look forward to seeing what you have to say. I know the feeling about cohesion. I hope you equilibrate soon. I have some more things to say, too, but am neglecting my work and need to focus some time there. More shame! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
A
First thought on Toxic shame from Bradshaw( a writer I believe in thoroughly)
"Because of its perverbal origins, shame is difficult to define. It is a healthy human power which can become a true sickness of the soul. There are two forms shame: nourishing shame and toxic/life- destroying shame. As toxic shame, it is an excruciatingly internal experience of unexpected exposure. It is a deep cut felt primarily from the inside. It divides us from ourselves and from others. In toxic shame, we disown ourselves. And this disowning demands a cover-up. Toxic shame parades in many garbs and get-ups. It loves darkness and secretiveness. It is the dark secret aspect of shame which has evaded our study. Because toxic shame stays in hiding and covers itself up, we have to track it down by learning to recognize its many faces and its many distracting behavioral cover-ups." -- John Bradshaw
"Healthy shame is an emotion which signals us about our limits. Like all emotions, healthy shame is an energy-in- motion. Like all emotions it moves us to get our basic needs met. One of our basic needs is structure. We ensure our structure by developing a boundary system within which we safely operate. Structure gives our lives form. Boundaries and form offer us safety and allow a more efficient use of energy. Healthy shame keeps us grounded. Healthy shame is the basic metaphysical boundary for human beings. Healthy shame gives us permission to be human."
Toxic shame needs to be sharply distinguished from guilt (guilt can be healthy or toxic). Healthy guilt is the emotional core of our conscience. It is emotion which results from behaving in a manner contrary to our beliefs and values. Guilt presupposes internalized rules and develops later than shame. According to Erikson, the third stage of psychosocial development is the polar balance between initiative and guilt. This stage begins after age three. Guilt is developmentally more mature than shame. Guilt does not reflect directly upon one's identity or diminish one's sense of personal worth. It flows from an integrated set of values.
Those quotes probably require more explanation and discussion, and I look forward to both soon,
Ken
Just now I was listening to the morning news and they were talking about bailing out the many people who have defaulted on mortgages, as a way to save the financial institutions that took on high-risk loans. The newscaster compared the government intervention to "welfare" and "giving them methadone," as if methadone were a drug only given to bail out people of low moral character. It was clearly meant to denigrate anyone on methadone. Since I am on methadone to control pain caused by a broken back/spinal fusion, I felt attacked. Another kick in the gut. I feel angry even though it was not directed at me personally--obviously. But that kind of thing is WHERE the shame comes from. I want to start explicitly identifying where it comes from at least. It is not all internal. Whether it's toxic or not, I don't know... I still don't entirely understand the difference.
I am interested in the distinctions Bradshaw (and you) outline. Between guilt and shame, toxic and healthy in each case. Yesterday I read around a little bit about toxic vs healthy shame and I think I am beginning to understand it. Examples help. I can see an example of toxic shame in my boyfriend who was often shamed by his father when he was young. So, as I understand it, when he feels toxic shame, he fails to act to correct what he has done wrong because he cannot bear to acknowledge it. Right?
Needless to say, I cannot think of any examples of toxic shame in myself because I am unaware of it! However, I found myself doing something recently for no reason I can explain. (A good friend confronted me, and I was very upset by what she hinted to me about myself. This is someone who has never before criticized me in any way and she was completely kind and gentle. But still I was rattled because when she asked me why I did X, I couldn't really say.) I didn't hurt anyone except myself. The question was why I would help someone who had treated me badly...
To take this further along this line of discussion, I am going to post a new topic in addictions,because this directly deals with it.(hopefully sticky also) for Toxic shame/guilt.
Rick just posted a new guideline to correctly keeping posts directed towards their questions, and we are going further from meds now.
I'll see if I can add the new post here.
Ken
I didn't realize I was off topic. One of my main points is that I don't have an addiction problem with opioids--at least that is what my doctors tell me. If I did, I don't think I would need to set up my computer to remind me to take the medication... I am talking about things that make me NOT want to take my medication (the thread topic) and one of those causes is the external perception that anyone using pain medications is abusing them. Ironic that you should decide that my true topic is addiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by KBC
Asking
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