Another problem. My wife works mostly with men. She has told me that the conversational boundaries are pretty much nonexistent, but I think it got carried away. While reading her phone messages, there was one from a coworker (a guy she works closest with) who was trying to clear things up after an argument.

He asked if they were "breaking up" and she said that she was aggravated, she just wanted consistency. Mind you, she had told me that they had a disagreement at work.

He then said "let's go upstairs and f***. I want to on your stomach, no kissing this time". (Sorry for the language, I hope it's OK.)

She wrote a few symbols, and said "there's your kiss."

Now, it originally shocked the hell out of me. I confronted her and she said that she was sorry, and it was absolutely out of line.

Now, it's been a while, and I don't think that anything physical had happened between them, but I have a hard time getting it off my mind.

She blames herself for letting the content get so vile, she said she just wanted to fit in.
(She had asked two other guys what they were talking about a week later, and they said "thinking of what it would be like to f*** you".

Now, she's very honest, and said her avoidance to their conversations has basically ended the comments.
I just want to hear what you guys think.

Here is your original post for background

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marria...uy-290644.html

He then said "let's go upstairs and f***. I want to on your stomach, no kissing this time".

I know I wouldn't be able to get past this statement
It implies that they HAVE (went upstairs or somewhere) and f-ed
I want you on your stomach No kissing THIS time (suggests she wasn't on her stomach last time & implies they were kissing last time).

I would take it that way. I don't know, maybe she went way too far and now regrets it and wants to stop and do the right thing but she is in a work environment where they are looking at her in a sexual harassing way. I really question how she can work there knowing they are looking at her in that way.
Ignoring them is not going to stop the reputation she has seemed to have acquired.

Why are you reading her phone messages? That's rude and its just asking her to go secretive instead of being open about conversations/issues with co-workers. She told you there were no conversational boundaries.

In the real world people joke around and it can get vile pretty quickly. Why do you think all those sexual harassment in the workplace policies were put into place? Some people just don't understand that conversational style, apparently she does but you don't. It can be quite shocking to someone who doesn't understand it.
Ber

True and I hope it was just talk that she got carried away in and then realized how bad it was getting and stopped.

My husband reads my texts, I read his. We have trust in our relationships and nothing to hide.

While this may be going over boundaries for some couples, it is not for us. What's mine is his and what's his is mine.

Personally, those texts would have put me through the roof and out the door. If it's not physical cheating, it has crossed the line big time!!

Yes I agree with J_9 the only redeeming thing here is IF she actually realized what she was getting into and stopped. But ignoring the comments is not the solution because they will continue making the remarks and thinking she is enjoying them because she is not trying to put a stop to how they talk about her. It is degrading to say the very least!

Very degrading, but it seems she may like the attention. This is another red flag.

It's not easy being a female in a workplace where most of your co-workers are men, especially in a blue collar job. It's easier when you're considered one of the guys in conversations instead of a prude. You say she's attractive, don't be surprised if several of the guys she works with have fantasies about her. That's just human nature and it can feel flattering to have men ogle her as a woman gets older. She has chosen you and seems to be open with you. You have a desirable wife, learn to give those other guys an "eat your heart out boys" attitude. Jealousy and mistrust gets you nowhere.
Ber

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Originally Posted by Ber Rabbit

Jealousy and mistrust gets you nowhere.
Ber

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I'm not going to give you a reddie, but did you actually read the texts? That is crossing the line on so many levels. Yes, I have been the only female in a male dominated business (gun shop), and, while things may have been insinuated, it never went THAT far. That's too far in left field to be just joking around.

I have been 'one of the guys' many times and the conversations run along the lines of cars, sports, hunting, etc... IF any of them made a sexual remark I made a smart remark that put them in their place and shut them up.

Not commenting on your relationship, looking at it other way...

Your wife is experiencing sexual harassments at work. She should report these guys to human resource. If she is putting up with these behavior to "fit in", then she needs to be given a training on sexual harassment, and I mean it literally.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

He then said "let's go upstairs and f***. I want to on your stomach, no kissing this time".

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The word in bold is what really throws me off. It really does imply that there was a last time. Joking or not, something isn't right.

There must have been some truth to that text or otherwise it wouldn't have been made. It probably wasn't the first either. Things at the work place can get out of hand pretty quickly. I would confront her more about the situation and see what is going on.

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Originally Posted by J_9

I'm not gonna give you a reddie, but did you actually read the texts? That is crossing the line on so many levels. Yes, I have been the only female in a male dominated business (gun shop), and, while things may have been insinuated, it never went THAT far. That's too far in left field to be just joking around.

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Yes and having exchanged texts and had conversations that are more lewd than that with blood relatives I can see where it can be joking. The problem with text messages is you only get a snippet of a conversation and there is no body language to go with it. That conversation to me translates like this:

Guy: Lets just drop this and go back to being friends
Girl: Why don't you go jump off a bridge

I just see it from a different perspective.
Ber

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Originally Posted by Ber Rabbit

The problem with text messages is you only get a snippet of a conversation and there is no body language to go with it.

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True, but read the words again. No kissing this time. What about last time? What happened last time?

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Originally Posted by Ber Rabbit

I just see it from a different perspective.
Ber

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Wow, you sure must!! I read every word and it did sound to me like this was over the top. I would not stand for it if I found out my husband were texting like this. It's sexual harassment in the workplace for sure.

I was going to bring up sexual harassment in my first reply but she was participating and encouraging it. Sort of like the Kobe thing and the Duke rape case... entice and then cry victim...
Not the right way to handle it.

So did you decide on what you are going to do?

Oh, there's NO DOUBT in MY mind that something is going on between her and that fella. A woman doesn't stray when she's getting the attention and the communication that she needs from her man. This is not your fault necessarily but remember this when deciding how important this text interaction is when evaluating it.

There is an inside joke here. You cannot take a text like this literally when you have been told the conversations in the workplace tend to be x-rated. Maybe there was a day when the boss called overtime on everyone or did something else that "screwed them" and she made a comment about preferring to have dinner and a kiss before getting screwed like that. One of the boys would retort with something like "yea I prefer to be looked in the eye when I get screwed" another could say "geez, why don't they just bend us over and take us from behind".

Now you have a running inside joke that escalates and gets funnier every time someone feels like they are getting screwed. Unfortunately to the casual observer who doesn't know the whole story it looks incriminating.

In the thread someone linked to the OP admitted to an inappropriate text messaging relationship with someone at work. If he was not having physical contact with this woman then he should believe his wife is not having physical contact with the man.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

Thank you very much for your response. I had an inappropriate text messaging relationship with someone at work. My wife generously worked through it with me, and we both seek counseling because of it.
A few months after, a male coworker of hers sent her a text message which was extremely sexually graphic. Her reply to the text was caual, as if she was used to this sort of stuff. When I approached her, she said that she also thought it was a bit extreme, but the banter with her in the office with the guys she works with is sometimes somewhat x-rated. She apologized profusely and avoids those conversations now, though the guys at work don't know that I know. She says that she allowed it to get to that point, though nothing physical ever happened with anyone.

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She told him she avoids the conversations---yea right. I can almost guarantee she still participates in those conversations and has simply stopped telling her husband because he rides her about it. I'd even lay odds that the guys at work DO know he flips out about the convo's and that's part of the reason the guy texted that. If something was going on she would have deleted the text. I want to know if her husband is sneaking around checking her text messages without her permission.

Exchanging lewd text messages can be fun for some, it's flirting and flirting is a game. Maybe the husband should start exchanging them with his wife, they both seem to enjoy that sort of flirting interaction.
Ber

Thank you all for your responses. This is a situation that has somewhat been taken care of, but still lays heavily on my mind.

My indescretions caused my wife to read my text messsages, and she continued questioning me about unrelated texts, so I thought I'd look at hers. Inappropriate, maybe, but something was bothering me.

When I confronted her, she said that what I did with my emotional affair effected her in a way that led to her inappropriate conversations, but later retracted it, saying she was just making an excuse.

She insisted that it never got physical, and it was never even at a point that either of them acknowledged that they had any feelings toward each other.

I questioned her on inappropriate comments she may have made to him, but she can't seem to remember. That bothers me.

I was originally going to call the guy, but my wife insisted I don't. It would, admittedly, affect her work environment, and she assured me that she could stop the comments by just reacting in a disinterested way. These comments usually happen when idle conversation is going on, so she'd involve herself less in those. In the meantime, may become more productive at work.

I believe that my wife had feelings for this guy, and let this stuff go on for the titilation of it. I think she enjoyed it more than she leads on that she did.

My emotional affair was admitted, opened up, dissected, and put to rest (though she does bring it up occasionally, I appreciate her acceptance of it). I don't feel that her situation, though not as severe as mine, was ever completely taken care of. I don't think she realizes that she puts herself into positions that makes me very uncomfortable.
Case in point: She had her work Christmas party on Tuesday night (She asked me to go, but I couldn't make it, which I'm sure relieved her). She had asked me if I minded if they went for drinks afterwards ("they" means about 4 or 5 of them). I asked her some questions about the night, and she told me that the guy who sent the messages was very drunk at the bar, so she offered to drive him home. He declined, as far as she said.
My problem is, what if he took her up on it? She's going to come home and tell me that she drove him home, drunk, at midnight? What am I supposed to think at that point? How many problems are we supposed to have over this until she gets it?

I'm worried that, with the state of our mutual mistrust, she's going to put herself in a position that's going to advance my suspicions, not end them. And my jealous reactions will further jeaporize our marriage.

We're both getting counseling, in case you were going to ask.

Again, thank you all. This has given me the ability to talk to someone, besides my therapist, and get things off my chest.

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Though the guys at work don't know that I know.

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Maybe your presence should be known, as in be there, and look another guy in the eye, for lunch, parties, and functions when she invites you.

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I'm worried that, with the state of our mutual mistrust, she's going to put herself in a position that's going to advance my suspicions, not end them. And my jealous reactions will further jeopardize our marriage.

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You wouldn't have to be jealous if you are standing by your wife. Not to be harsh, but your as much to blame for your jealousy, and insecurity as her actions are.

You don't have to rant, and rave to make sure nobody disrespects your female, but you do have to make sure the fellows know you ain't going for there office buddy crap!

For this reason its important to be in a setting to face to face, know these characters. Then you can get your own facts, and deal with things appropriately.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

She insisted that it never got physical, and it was never even at a point that either of them acknowledged that they had any feelings toward each other.

I questioned her on inappropriate comments she may have made to him, but she can't seem to remember. That bothers me.

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It's not that she doesn't remember, she's not going to tell you because of the way you are acting. Nobody wants to bring their spouse down even harder on them.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

I was originally going to call the guy, but my wife insisted I don't. It would, admittedly, affect her work environment, and she assured me that she could stop the comments by just reacting in a disinterested way. These comments usually happen when idle conversation is going on, so she'd involve herself less in those. In the meantime, may become more productive at work.

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Now it sounds like you are trying to force her to isolate herself from her co-workers. That may breed discontent and resentment, those are not healthy for your relationship right now.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

I believe that my wife had feelings for this guy, and let this stuff go on for the titilation of it. I think she enjoyed it more than she leads on that she did.

My emotional affair was admitted, opened up, dissected, and put to rest (though she does bring it up occasionally, I appreciate her acceptance of it). I don't feel that her situation, though not as severe as mine, was ever completely taken care of. I don't think she realizes that she puts herself into positions that makes me very uncomfortable.

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How about trying out the role of "understanding husband". Let her know you love her and you understand how titilating these conversations can be and how easy it is to find yourself with a crush on someone (it's not just teens who get crushes). Put the spark back in your marriage, be the one sending her these messages. Flirting is fun, flirting with your spouse is even more fun.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

Case in point: She had her work Christmas party on Tuesday night (She asked me to go, but I couldn't make it, which I'm sure relieved her).

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That's a pretty negative assumption. Did you ask if she was relieved you didn't go?

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Originally Posted by phil1129

She had asked me if I minded if they went for drinks afterwards ("they" means about 4 or 5 of them). I asked her some questions about the night, and she told me that the guy who sent the messages was very drunk at the bar, so she offered to drive him home. He declined, as far as she said.
My problem is, what if he took her up on it? She's gonna come home and tell me that she drove him home, drunk, at midnight? What am I supposed to think at that point? How many problems are we supposed to have over this until she gets it?

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Continuing to hound her about this is going to drive her underground. Not only will she cease telling you he was drunk, she'll take him home and not even mention it to you. She's still communicating, it's time to stop living in the past and become whatever it is she needs. Heck, ask the guy she's talking to. My guess is she has lamented to him at some point and he knows whatever it is you're lacking in your relationship. Tell him you need his help.
Ber

Again, thank you for the responses.

You guys put the onus on me to look inside myself, and you're probably right. I know I have issues in this respect.

And Ber, I'm very happy that my wife tells me when things happen. It means to me that she is being open and not hiding things.

I guess I'm getting a little worked up where it's not really warranted. I think I could suck it up, let a little time pass, and see how it pans out.

Taliniman, one of your quotes is "Never make a person a priority in your life, while allowing them to make you an option in theirs."
That is one of the things that bothers me. I get caught up in thinking that I'm not getting back what I'm putting in. I've gone so overboard with guilt after my emotional affair, that I'm looking for the same thing back. I just have to relax and take it as it comes.

Thanks guys.

Get rid of the guilt, and forgive yourself, as you seem to be trying to do better.

Get out of self, and see a bigger picture, as I THINK your wife needs you to lead by example, so step up to the plate, as healing is a longer process than you think.

Read the whole signature, just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by phil1129

And Ber, I'm very happy that my wife tells me when things happen. It means to me that she is being open and not hiding things.

I guess I'm getting a little worked up where it's not really warranted. I think I could suck it up, let a little time pass, and see how it pans out.

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You seem to understand your behaviour will determine whether her openness continues. It's really encouraging to see she still opens up to you even though you've been a bit of a twit about the situation. My impression (and this could be WAY off the wall) is you love each other very much but you guys have fallen into a bit of a rut sexually. The sexual boredom caused you both to seek stimulation from others because you didn't feel comfortable telling your spouse you wanted a change in your sex life. It feels weird to say to your spouse "I'm a little bored with the status quo of our sex life, let's do something new to spice it up." It can be a real emotional blow to hear your partner is no longer satisfied with what you're doing sexually. Needs change there's no escaping that, it's a normal part of life. Talking about your changing sexual needs with your spouse is very hard but odds are they are interested in spicing things up as well and are just as uncomfortable bringing the subject up as you are.

Open up a conversation with her, if you can't do it face to face do it in a letter--or a text ;)
Ber

Someone talked to my husband like that and there would be hell to pay.I would be personally insulted if someone disrespected my partner like that.
It sounds very fishy to me and I would keep my ears and eyes open.
Playful banter is one thing but this sounds like something more.
I'm 54 yrs.old and I have seen many a tryst start this way.
Be watchful and if anyone tells you that you are being untrustworthy I say you have good cause to be.

Well, I'm going my wife's office tomorrow. They're having Santa Claus there and my wife asked me to meet her and the kids there after work. There's my face-to-face opportunity.
I feel fortunate to have someone who has put up with my distrust. As much as there's still a sliver of uncertainty, I'll try to do my best to believe in her.
Thank you everyone, again, for your input.

Cast aside the doubts, and support your wife 100%, and make sure she has a good time and the kids have a great one. Be confident, of her love.

Look all the guys in the eye, and don't flinch!

Back to the problem. It's been a few months, and my wife's reactions to this guy just didn't make sense to me. She originally told me that "maybe" she had feelings for this guy, she had never really thought about it.
Well, I overheard a phone conversation she had with him yesterday. She was referring to an argument she had with him at work on Friday, and that we "can't be friends, just a work relationship", "it's too hard", we can't turn back the clock", and "no, I don't regret it".
The problem is that she had originally told me that they had never acknowledged the mutual feelings that they had for each other.
Well, it turns out that they did acknowledge them. And she told me that she did, knowingly have feelings for this guy, and they spent a lot of time going to lunch together and going to the mall at lunchtime. But, "nothing physical ever happened".
It ended abruptly after she told him not to be inappropriate towards her. I just don't know if I could trust a word she says. She didn't tell me because of how it would effect our marriage, but I knew something wasn't right. I just wanted honesty, and I'd probably be over it by now. But, I've gone through months of hell trying to piece this story that didn't make sense together, and the hurt is worse now. I feel completely betrayed that she wouldn't tell me this when I first started questioning her. I don't know now if nothing more happened. She even told me that she doesn't think that she would tell me if it did get physical, though she swears it didn't.
Also, she didn't tell the guy that I read the text. So, as much as he hasn't been inappropriate, she's been completely distant toward him. They need to work together some times, and he doesn't understand why her behavior changed to abruptly and drastically. So that's two people she's lied to and caused major relationship stress with, be that marital or work-related.
The more I think about her behavior, the more it aggravates me.
I need to get through this. I can't go through another two months like the last two. I need to be able to trust her.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Have you guys considered counseling? I'm sorry if this has already been stated. I didn't re-read everything in this thread before I posted

I too am sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I don't fully agree with some that have stated that you are responsible. Two wrongs don't make it right. My feeling is that she is responsible for her actions and accountable for her betrayal. She has to know that she is causing some pain in this instance because she too went through it when you had your fun. I also read about the guy at the gym. Are these two separate people and one same wife? My concern is that there is damage to the trust that she has and has decided that she will live her life and do as she pleases. Counseling may help, but let's face it how long and to what degree can two people repair such distrust. Do you simply say okay... ready set go... and start trusting again? What if the other person isn't holding up to their end of the bargain and there goes the mental stuff all over again. You most likely are in for a long battle, one that I would say is totally worth it. It's better to keep your family together. It's going to be work. Good Luck to you and your wife.

Thanks for the quick responses. I don't think that my wife is just living her life. She was very upset last night, and begging me not to leave.
It's her inability to open up to me and tell me the whole story that bothers me. I still don't know if she's done that yet. She says just enough to implicate herself, and the story gets a little more serious as I question her.
I too believe that keeping the family together is worth it. I just want to trust my wife again.

However, with you having to pull this information from her, will you be able to. If every time you doubt or have question to doubt and you ask for the answer you don't get it until you ask and ask and ask and ask and then still aren't sure you have it is that going to be okay with you. It's your decision to trust again or not trust again, however you make that decision based on certain criteria. You say she isn't living her life but at times she is with little regard for you or your feelings. I don't know to many people that text the kind of content you wrote that haven't gone there already with each other. This isn't how you "fit in". She very well may have tarnished her reputation at work and yours. Of course she was upset she doesn't want you to leave but that doesn't mean she is innocent. She is aware that her actions warrant you leaving... think about it.

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It's her inability to open up to me and tell me the whole story that bothers me.

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Yes its hard to make a decision without the facts, or even promise love, and support without full communications, so tell her that with no frills. Just be ready for whatever she does say to you.

The inappropriate conversations were much more than I thought. My wife was actually masturbating to him and telling him about it, and vice versa. They made out in the car, and, as she said, they probably would've had sex at some point.
Thank God for her honesty, though a little late.
The pain is killing me at this point, and I'll see my therapist on Monday night, but today and tomorrow will be very difficult.
I stopped raising my voice, and am trying to understand what happened, but the pain is hell.

Please help me.

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Originally Posted by Ber Rabbit

Why are you reading her phone messages? That's rude and its just asking her to go secretive instead of being open about conversations/issues with co-workers. She told you there were no conversational boundaries.

In the real world people joke around and it can get vile pretty quickly. Why do you think all those sexual harrassment in the workplace policies were put into place? Some people just don't understand that conversational style, apparently she does but you don't. It can be quite shocking to someone who doesn't understand it.
Ber

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I don't think the question should be why is he reading her messages. I think the question should be why is she letting someone send her messages like that and she is married. I don't think he should be mad at the guy he should be upset with her, it is her that said I do and said she would be faithful not the guy.
And I hope you are not seriously believing that nothing happened between the two of them please something did happen and its called sex. They had sex and probably more than once. Just by reading the context of the message you can see that.
I am sorry you are having to go through this. But please ask more questions and get to the bottom of it once and for all. So you can move on in your marriage or decide not to. But either way you need all of the information to make and good decision.

Best of luck

Ask her about it.