Hi
From her cultural background. Meeting new people and meeting for coffee or a meal seems to be the norm. So for her she thinks making new friends for a chat or a coffee is normal, here, there is a different mindset... and for me it is intimidating especially when, it seems, it appears that we are talking about just guys.. if she told me she had met a woman at the mall with similar interests and background that would be great, she would truly have someone she could interact with without the complications that comes with the opposite sex relationships in a friendship. Its OK everyone telling me that I shouldn't do this or feel like that... It has to work both ways surely.

Some women don't like other women. I have met some. Is she like that or is she close to some women?

She does have one woman friend here who she meets maybe once a week although over the past 2-3 weeks she has been overseas unsure when she will be back. And recently she had a woman friend visit from China with whom she enjoyed the company. I guess I just feel intimidated (insecure) and uncomfortable if/when she meets new people who happen to be guys, even if its Kevin, the family friend from China especially when she spend too long with him (in my opinion)

I'm glad she can hang out with women. It sounds like she could use some more women friends if her one close friend is out of town. Does she have a hobby that would bring her into contact with more people generally?

Hard to tell but it does seem like she needs to talk to other people besides you (no offense!). I mean anyone would. So if someone's friendly, it's probably a relief to chat.

Give her some breathing room. I agree with "wishing", everyone needs friends they can talk too.

I agree, everyone needs friends but I don't agree with consciously complicating a relationship by unconsiously inviting new friends into our lives. If they are like minded couples, fine. Single males not fine. I am not holding a double standard here I too will not invite new single women friends into our lives. That is the point I am trying to make.

Try this, date your wife and get to know her as if she was a stranger (she is), since you skipped the process before, and stop acting like, or expecting to be, a long established couple who are comfortable with each other.

That 90% of your problem, you have rules in your head that you put on her, and expect her to know your history and feelings, and why you're the insecure, scared, still hurt from the past and comparing her to the woman who hurt you.

Not only might it be fun, you may actually learn to trust her enough to enjoy her.

So stop stalking her and freaking yourself out, and recognize the need to make up for what was skipped, and retrace your steps to the dating phase and have some fun. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes, correct past mistakes, and try to move forward.

What's the worst that could happen? Divorce? Your already headed that way, so just try it. Instead of stalking, blow her mind with activities, and actions that will make good memories, and stop being a scared old stuffed shirt, who stalks his female, and snoops through her personal stuff.

Try it, or drown in your own sh1t!!

Good call. I am on the case. Regards

Get your act together and STOP acting like a victim. You are headed for DIVORCE if you don't wake up and stop being her ruler instead of a husband.

I understand.. but please remember she didn't help this by lying and or making up a story that wasn't true or didn't add up... but I am heading in the right direction I think, I hope. Thanks to everyone.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

Hi
From her cultural background. Meeting new people and meeting for coffee or a meal seems to be the norm. So for her she thinks making new friends for a chat or a coffee is normal, here, there is a different mindset... and for me it is intimidating especially when, it seems, it appears that we are talking about just guys.. if she told me she had met a woman at the mall with similar interests and background that would be great, she would truely have someone she could interact with without the complications that comes with the opposite sex relationships in a friendship. Its OK everyone telling me that I shouldn't do this or feel like that... It has to work both ways surely.

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Unless your wife is putting herself in danger why does she need to conform to anyone's cultural norms? Heck I can't count the ways that I don't conform to average expectations. So what? At the weekend my hubby and I went to help our son move house. I ended up on 'guard' duty standing by the van whilst hubby and son brought stuff down to load. Boring job. The consierge came out for a smoke so we ended up chatting away for ages. He happened to be a guy. Again so what. If it had been a female that was around for a chat then that is who I would have been chatting with. I love meeting new people regardless of gender. Maybe your wife just happens to have met more men then women up to now.

Sure, in that situation seems fine and 'normal' enough, but you wouldn't dream of accepting an invitation to go have coffee with him, I would hazzard a guess, but I would think your husband would have an awkward feeling should that have been the scenario. Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by clickaus

Sure, in that situation seems fine and 'normal' enough, but you wouldn't dream of accepting an invitation to go have coffee with him, I would hazzard a guess, but I would think your husband would have an awkward feeling should that have been the scenario. Am I wrong?

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Clickaus.. I am friendly with everybody. My husband knew that when he married me. I have male friends from high school, who always call when they are in town. I invite them for coffee. My husband is here. I went to a college football game with a friend from high school because my husband and him are friends. I talk with strangers..

There are several friend from high school who get together about every two years and we have dinner. Some are male some are female. Sometimes my husband goes sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes wives come without husbands and vice versa. I can assure you we DO NOT
Tear each others clothes off and get into a pile. My husband and I trust each other.

That's what love is. Being with friends without your spouse doesn't always end up in an affair or an orgy or casual sex or sex .

I understand that these are, usually, old friends [from school] or at least, mutual friends, friend you both know. Would your husband be so understanding should you decide to have a coffee with one of those strangers you talk to.. more to the point would you even mention to him that you had a coffee with a stranger, if not what would be the scenario had he found out you did this. I don't think my feelings and fears are not a million miles away from the thoughts of any other male, whether that admit it or not it is in their thoughts albeit at the back of their mind. Mine has been accentuated by the fact that I found my wife lied to me at the beginning, admittedly to shield the wrong response, but in doing so caused the wrong thinking which unfortunately stuck in my head which in turn has been the cause of the preceding 293 postings in this site [which again I do appreciate the response]. My wife and I have talked, sometimes at length sometimes just as I am about to leave for work... but we are talking and I believe we are finding a level ground of understanding.

ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kitkat22 again.

TRUST, the foundation for any healthy relationship. I bet my wife would scare the beezesis, out of you clickaus, she will buy coffee for any one!! But her guy friends are pretty cool, and she stole my female friends from me a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kitkat22 again.

TRUST, the foundation for any healthy relationship. I bet my wife would scare the beezesis, out of you clickaus, she will buy coffee for any one!!!! But her guy friends are pretty cool, and she stole my female friends from me a long time ago.

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I agree Tal.. I've sat at the mall while my husband is in the sporting goods store and talked with people I didn't know. Mostly other men waiting for their wives. And yes a few have bought coffee for me. I didn't have sex with them. My husband talks with woman when I'm shopping. He doesn't know them. That'a just the way we are TRUST

Clickaus,
You HAVE to work on your self-esteem. Also, take care of yourself and work out! You will feel much better about yourself and the endorphins will provide a way to deal with your negative feelings about yourself. Read some great, uplifting books- try Wayne Dyer, Eckhardt Tolle, and Byron Katie. Do some introspection to figure out what is making you so insecure. Start telling yourself some nice things about YOU in the mirror. You will find that you are less threatened and will notice your wife will be happier too! If you keep thinking she'll leave you, eventually she might. There is nothing worse than being with someone who is uncomfortable in his own skin. She loves you, or she wouldn't have married you. You must STOP devaluing yourself and start seeing yourself for your positive qualities! GOOD LUCK! It starts now : )

Thanks Letitbe appreciate your thoughts

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Originally Posted by clickaus

I understand that these are, usually, old friends [from school] or at least, mutual friends, friend you both know. Would your husband be so understanding should you decide to have a coffee with one of those strangers you talk to.. more to the point would you even mention to him that you had a coffee with a stranger, if not what would be the scenario had he found out you did this. I don't think my feelings and fears are not a million miles away from the thoughts of any other male, whether that admit it or not it is in their thoughts albeit at the back of their mind. Mine has been accentuated by the fact that I found my wife lied to me at the beginning, admittedly to shield the wrong response, but in doing so caused the wrong thinking which unfortunately stuck in my head which in turn has been the cause of the preceeding 293 postings in this site [which again I do appreciate the response]. My wife and I have talked, sometimes at length sometimes just as I am about to leave for work... but we are talking and I believe we are finding a level ground of understanding.

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In all honesty the pair of you got off to a bad start. You didn't trust her behaviour and she didn't trust your reaction and started lying. Trust is about more than whether the other person is cheating it is also about trusting the other person with our feelilngs. You don't feel safe due to jealousy, your wife doesn't feel safe because of you constantly doubting her, she lies and you feel even more unsafe, you check up on her...
I can see how this would make for a viscious circle.

I am glad that you feel you are beginning to reach a new level of understanding. A lot of your jealousy stems from the past and I'm sure the couselling you are receiving will help you deal with that better in time. Maybe a little couples counselling might be helpful too to help the pair of you break the circle you have unwittingly set up. I can see where your wife's behaviour hasn't been helpful. Not in being friendly but in not remaining honest about it. I can see why she lied but I can also see how this hasn't helped. The pair of you need to build a new foundation and maybe some outisde help together would expediate this.

Clikaus,

I agree with letitbe1111. You sound like you're letting insecurity make you a bit jealous. In all honesty, not being able to trust your wife may end up driving you apart - the opposite of what you want. Take care of yourself, work out, and focus on being the best person you can be... the rest will take care of itself.

One of my friends is an abuse survivor and they have trouble trusting in a relationship... Here's an article that describes their issue I think (in case you have come from an abusive background): Why the Good Enough Factor Builds Trust In a Relationship And Avoids Jealousy

This sounds like more of your issue than hers. First of all, trust is everything in a marriage, and you need to trust her. She sounds like a very nice girl, and I'm sure she has enough sense to not give the wrong impression to guys. You can't be with her 24 hours a day, so you can't be worried about this all the time. Don't blame her for something that hasn't happened yest, because if you do, you could push her into doing things that will really make you jealous. Just remember, that you know that no matter how friendly she is, she goes home with you. You're the lucky one

Clickus it sounds like you would benefit by finding out a bit more about the immigrant Chinese community and the common practices. She may be doing what is very common for people from China in a new country.

Can you get involved her culture maybe take a course in Chinese or volunteer to help new immigrants to read or settle in. Ask your wife for advice on how you can help. As her husband, I am certain Kevin would like to get to know him too. Why not call him for suggestions about language courses or Chinese cultural classes, or ways that you could volunteer in the Chinese community.

Do you and your wife have any activity in common. If not, find something you both enjoy doing. You mentioned being overweight and feeling uncomfortable about it. I'll bet you can work off a lot of nervous energy and lose weight by hitting the gym.

Try very hard to decrease surveillance of your wife and instead get to know her and her friends. Invite them over frequently for meals and go to their houses or out to events. The more you get to know her, her culture, language and friends the more shared history you will develop and feel more secure in the relationship.

My wife keeps raising the subject about her interest in learning massage, that is traditional chinese massage. She went to see a friend who has a business offering the service of health therapy which I later found to be the kind where the client gets naked and has oils applied etc etc... I was not at all comfortable with this as firstly the clients were mostly male, my wife is asian and in the western world, sadly, when guys think of massage and asian they usually associate it with sex. I explained this to my wife, she was a little shocked and agreed that she would look for another career. All fine but as my wife currently cannot work while waiting for immigration visas she is very bored with nothing to do. So she keeps bringing up the topic of learning massage. She found another friend who seems to have a respectable business in a shopping mall offering a service of traditional chinese therapy and acupuncture and went to see her. Later my wife explained that this friend was willing to teach her if she wanted to. She asked my opinion. I still wasn't comfortable about the prospect of my wife having body contact with another guy. Traditional chinese massage usually involves just neck and shoulders. I have seen the place and it is all clinical like all open and frosted glass screens within a shopping mall, and most of the clients are female office workers. So again my wife has raised the subject and wants to look further into this. I have reluctantly agreed that she should look and evaluate for herself.. but I cannot come to grips with the prospect of her being paid my some guy to make them feel good, it just isn't making me feel comfortable and unsure how I can concentrate on my day when I know my wife is there... How do I handle this situation without appearing to control my wife.

By keeping your mouth shut and letting her do her thing. Would you rather she slop pigs or something?? Okay that last comment was uncalled for but you would probably freak out at anything she did outside the house, and I notice you had no suggestions either, when she asked your opinion.

Seems she is going to do it any way, so make the most of it, and volunteer to be her practice dummy... er... client.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

By keeping your mouth shut and letting her do her thing. Would you rather she slop pigs or something??? Okay that last comment was uncalled for but you would probably freak out at anything she did outside the house, and I notice you had no suggestions either, when she asked your opinion.

Seems she is going to do it any way, so make the most of it, and volunteer to be her practice dummy...........er..........client.

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Too late click.. you already control her. You "agreed" to allow her to look into this? What are you a Daddy or a husband? You aren't going to stop your controlling attitude. You better be glad you're not married to me. You would have been history a long time ago.

Clickaus, do you see yourself as her boss or her partner? Do you see the two of you building a life together or do you see yourself building a life for her to live? Do you see the difference?

You know that what she wants to do has nothing to do with sex, but that is where your mind goes to when you think of what interests her. If she waited tables in a diner, would you think about her being on her feet, hot and tired all day long or the male customers who might smile and say more than 'more coffee'?

Think of it this way, what she wants to do helps people. You may be thinking in terms of sex, but there are people who need the relief that acupressure and massage can bring. People who suffer from headaches (even migraine suffers can get some relief), backaches, muscles that are so knotted up that it affects their nerves, etc. Learn more about what she wants to do and the people who actually use these services instead of thinking about stereotypes and letting your over active imagination make up scenarios.

Instead of imagining her 'servicing' a man, think about her helping someone who without her help wouldn't be able to pick up a paper cup or would be bedridden with a major headache.

You are right, you comment was uncalled for. Although I have some issues I respect and love my wife, she was a medical practitioner for over 20 years in China, I just don't want to see her degrading herself just for the sake of a job.. dealing with people in a hospital situation is different to dealing with people with pleasure on their mind. I am very protective of that for her, for me and for her daughter.
But I do see your point Cat... its just that the first place she went to was a little suspect. The second place in the shopping mall has a better feel to it. With reference to 'my opinion' I just asked why she couldn't work in a flower shop as she likes tending to her garden. She said that would be perfect... but she keeps bringing up the topic of massage. Daddy or Husband... we both have to consider the other partner in day-to-day life as we both have to feel comfortable in any situation be it work choices, social or otherwise. Thanks guy, haven't been here for a while as things were reasonably stable.. just every now and then something crops up that I have trouble processing.
Like the other day I went to our local shopping mall to sort out some medical forms during the day, as I walked past the food court I spotted my wife having coffee and a chat with Kevin... my heart skipped a beat but I said nothing and continued to sort out my errands... later I called my wife and explained I was at the mall on an errand perhaps we could meet up, she told me she was in the supermarket!! Later at home I asked her about her day, not a mention about meeting Kevin.. I asked about him and she said oh yes... I was upset because I keep feeling she is doing this behind my back rather than treating him as the family friend she maintains he is and include him in conversation about her day, 'Oh I saw Kevin today, we had a chat and coffee', rather than say nothing and make the whole situation seem what it is not...

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Originally Posted by clickaus

Like the other day I went to our local shopping mall to sort out some medical forms during the day, as I walked past the food court I spotted my wife having coffee and a chat with Kevin... my heart skipped a beat but I said nothing and continued to sort out my errands... later I called my wife and explained I was at the mall on an errand perhaps we could meet up, she told me she was in the supermarket!!!. Later at home I asked her about her day, not a mention about meeting Kevin.. I asked about him and she said oh yes... I was upset because I keep feeling she is doing this behind my back rather than treating him as the family friend she maintains he is and include him in conversation about her day, 'Oh I saw Kevin today, we had a chat and coffee', rather than say nothing and make the whole situation seem what it is not...

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Why didn't you go up to her and say hello? You had a perfect opportunity (and a legitimate one) to surprise her and possibly make her day brighter. Instead, you use it as a trap. When you called, were you still in the mall? Did you see her still in the mall WHEN you made the call? How do you know she was still in the mall when you chose to get in touch with her?

Hi Cat, yes I was waiting inline at the medical centre when I called her. I guessed she would be still in the mall. And yes you made a valid point although I didn't intentionally use it as a trap, I guessed she wouldn't tell me, and I was right... I just wanted her to not make it seem as if she is doing things behind my back but to be open about this so that it stops being a contentious issue

No you do not respect your wife. If you did you would have no problem with her learning that. Especially if it is something she wants to do.

You still have 0 trust for your wife which tells me your marriage is already over and you may as well end it because your not doing yourself or your wife any favors by acting the way you do.

Counseling I see has not worked or you just have not gone?

Jesushelper... my marriage is NOT over, what kind of advice is that? That is just plain rude, disrespectful and not very conducive to helping... this is coming from a 'Relationship Expert'!
I have no problem with my wife learning a new skill providing it is above board and morel.
Counseling is still ongoing. Like I said, things have been quite stable but sometimes something crops up that I don't know how to process..

Okay I will rephrase my wording.

In my own personal relationship advice to you it is time for a divorce and move on.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

Jesushelper... my marriage is NOT over, what kind of advice is that?? That is just plain rude, disrespectful and not very conducive to helping... this is coming from a 'Relationship Expert'!
I have no problem with my wife learning a new skill providing it is above board and morel.
Counseling is still ongoing. Like I said, things have been quite stable but sometimes something crops up that I don't know how to process..

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Yes it is over, it is not being rude but being truthful. It is over. It is done. Long time ago. Yes this is coming from a relationship expert.
Yes, you do have a problem with everything your wife does. That is a fact.
Glad your still doing the counseling. This is not cropping up this has been a big explosion right from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Yes it is over, it is not being rude but being truthful. It is over. It is done. Long time ago. Yes this is coming from a relationship expert.
Yes, you do have a problem with everything your wife does. That is a fact.
Glad your still doing the counseling. This is not cropping up this has been a big explosion right from the beginning.

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We have given advice until we're blue in the face and it all boils down to the jealousy you have for your wife. From what we have advised yo should be past that. You said you"agreed to let her check into massage therapy. You agreed to Let her. You are not her Dad nor her master.
Frankly I don't know how she's stood it this long. If you don't loosen up
Joe is right, divorce is where you're headed. I'm no expert I am a wife and if my husband treated me the way you have treaded your wife, Id be gone in a New York minute.

There are more kinds of abuse than physical , there is emotional abuse.

OK I am really trying not to be that person.

I didn't actually 'agree' to let her... she asked if I would be OK if she went to find out more and I said that she should go to evaluate for herself... kind of different

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Originally Posted by clickaus

OK I am really trying not to be that person.

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Clickus.. Let her do what makes her happy. If she s going to cheat there's no way you can stop it. I don't think she is thinking of that.
You will drive her away if you continue to dominate her. Kevin is her friend from China and maybe she gets homesick and likes to talk about home. Give her a break.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

I didn't actually 'agree' to let her... she asked if I would be OK if she went to find out more and I said that she should go to evaluate for herself.... kinda different

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You should not have to agree anyway. She should do whatever she wants. Separate from you.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

You should not have to agree anyway. She should do whatever she wants. Separate from you.

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You're right Joe.

No he is NOT right... when you are sharing a life together, you don't deliberately do something that is going cause any kind of discord between each other, it's a mutual respect for each other's feelings. Of course you should pursue the things you enjoy, but you don't do things that will cause a problem or put yourself in harms way.