Your only setting yourself and your wife up for failure. Do not say sorry but change your actions before YOU ruin your marriage.

Your still justifying your actions. You know what either you get over what happened from the last relationship or you will never have a sound relationship again.

YOU CAN NOT CONTROL WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO.

So please stop controlling your wife.

I Hold out some hope for this marriage, but the more you defend your actions the more I hope.

Your wife decides enough is enough and sends you a huge message to you by actually leaving.

Then again you will just PUT ALL THE BLAME ON HER ANYWAY.

Clickaus, I am beginning to think you are addicted to using it. It has gone past comfort to habit and now it seems uncontrollable. It gives you a power and control over your wife that she knows nothing about. It gives you instant feedback to fuel your fantasies of what you think your wife might be up to.

However much you want to believe in it. It cannot tell you exactly where she is. It can't tell you who she sees or she talks to. It can't tell you if she is taking a detour to get around someone/thing blocking the street. It can't tell you if she decided she wanted a longer walk to get some exercise or because she just didn't feel like going straight home.

Get rid of the GPS application. Delete it. Turn it off. Whatever it takes. To make it harder if not impossible to use.

Oh, as for doing what you are doing, I wouldn't. My husband is in pest control. He is constantly alone in houses and apartments with other women. Some of them he sees every month. Some every three months. Each day, I have only a vague idea of where he is or even should be (cancellations and rescheduling happen all the time.) I don't know when he will be home in the evening. It is a cheaters dream. Some of the places he ends up are not friendly to cell phones. If I need to call him and don't get a hold of him. I wait awhile and try again or I leave a voice mail and wait for him to call me when he has service or time to. I don't automatically assume that he is putting me off while playing with someone else and I know what a flirt my husband is. I trust him and have for 25 years. Trust is a wonderful thing when you truly feel it.

It's beyond me , how in the world do you function in your daily life.
What do you do when you're at work? You have very low self esteem and you desperately need to work on that.

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However much you want to believe in it. It cannot tell you exactly where she is. It can't tell you who she sees or she talks to. It can't tell you if she is taking a detour to get around someone/thing blocking the street. It can't tell you if she decided she wanted a longer walk to get some exercise or because she just didn't feel like going straight home.

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Cat is so right.

People in finance say that if you watch the market every second, you are going to have little disappointments all day long. Every time the market dips for an hour, you feel bad. It comes back up, but that doesn't compensate for the other stresses. Stockbrokers are paid to absorb that stress, so it makes no sense to pay your stockbroker and then stress over every change in the market. The more often people look--every hour, every day, once a week or once a month, the more stress they feel.

Clickhaus, you are doing this with your wife. Every time your wife does something you don't understand, every time the gps is a little off, every time she steps into a shop that's not on the phone map--you are going to freak out. Then when she comes home, you'll be "off" in ways she can't put her finger on. But this stuff utterly destroys your peace of mind and destroys intimacy between the two of you. For your own happiness, if not hers, you must give up this addiction to knowing her whereabouts.

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Originally Posted by asking

Cat is so right.

People in finance say that if you watch the market every second, you are going to have little disappointments all day long. Every time the market dips for an hour, you feel bad. It comes back up, but that doesn't compensate for the other stresses. Stockbrokers are paid to absorb that stress, so it makes no sense to pay your stockbroker and then stress over every change in the market. The more often people look--every hour, every day, once a week or once a month, the more stress they feel.

Clickhaus, you are doing this with your wife. Every time your wife does something you don't understand, every time the gps is a little off, every time she steps into a shop that's not on the phone map--you are going to freak out. Then when she comes home, you'll be "off" in ways she can't put her finger on. But this stuff utterly destroys your peace of mind and destroys intimacy between the two of you. For your own happiness, if not hers, you must give up this addiction to knowing her whereabouts.

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Hope you look at these post and read them.

Wow, I think you need to see a psychiatrist. A marriage is based on love, friendship and trust and I don't think you have any of those.

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Originally Posted by mrshodges

Wow, I think you need to see a psychiatrist. A marriage is based on love, friendship and trust and I don't think you have any of those.

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Self esteem and trust issues... as the above post said love, friendship and trust.

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Originally Posted by mrshodges

Wow, I think you need to see a psychiatrist. A marriage is based on love, friendship and trust and I don't think you have any of those.

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He has started to see a counselor, so we can't expect instant results from him :D

Thanks everyone
I really don't expect her to report on everything she does or on everywhere she goes as such. I understand that some days she may choose to take a walk differently to other days or to take a detour for one reason or another and again I am not expecting a report, I really am not that bad. But when she walked around to the back of her apartments there was a different agenda here. There was absolutely no reason to go there unless there was a specific reason to do so. If she just walked Kevin home at least she could have said that she had met up with Kevin, fine, except she would have walked him to the front entrance. Absolutely no need to walk around to the back. So there was a specific reason to do so and that is what bothers me especially when she absolutely denied going there. I agree the GPS isn't always accurate but it is accurate enough to show this detail. So to deny being there on this occasion and to tell me on a previous occasion when I called at that moment that she had just left our apartment to go out when in fact she hadn't reached home yet, this is very puzzling and it sticks in my head. You guys have mentioned that you would ignore these things, so relationships seem to be based I ignorant bliss. What the eyes don't see the heart cannot grieve over basically, rather than simple explanation.

I have another 3 weeks before my counselor returns from holiday. Its hard.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

There was absolutely no reason to go there unless there was a specific reason to do so. If she just walked Kevin home at least she could have said that she had met up with Kevin, fine, except she would have walked him to the front entrance. Absolutely no need to walk around to the back. So there was a specific reason to do so and that is what bothers me especially when she absolutely denied going there. [... ]

You guys have mentioned that you would ignore these things, so relationships seem to be based I ignorant bliss. What the eyes don't see the heart cannot grieve over basically, rather than simple explanation.

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People say "within 100 meters" is super accurate for most of these phones (though some are clearly more accurate). And there are a lot of places she could have been that are 100 meters away. I'm still not convinced you really know for sure where she was at that moment.

But let's assume your tracker is ultra accurate and she was exactly where you think she was. People do sometimes do things they think will upset you or they would rather you didn't know about. Since you are so jealous, I'm sure she knows you would rather she didn't see Kevin. So she walks back with Kelly, stops to talk to Kevin. (The reasons could be innocuous, Kelly had a DVD of his to return, or your wife did. They went to the back door because painters were working in the front entry. Whatever.)

Then your wife gets home, she's already decided to not mention it, so you won't get upset, but you ask her directly if she was there. Whoa! She's not expecting you to ask that and denies it, even though it was totally innocent. What she really means is, "I didn't do anything wrong." She's probably wondering how on earth you guessed and if you are having her followed. People should not lie, but sometimes they do. You are definitely lying to her, so you are really not in a position to criticize.

Don't invade her privacy and don't make her lie. But most important, yes, sometimes it's better not to know and better to just accept the parts of a relationship that work very well. For example, suppose a pretty woman walks by and my boyfriend checks her out when I'm not looking. I think he shouldn't do that, but he maybe can't help it. Or maybe he can help it, but does it anyway. I don't want to know that he did it or what he was thinking. I don't want to know if he thought about her later when we were making love. Where's the up side to that kind of knowledge? Trust is something you choose to do. Not always easy though.

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What the eyes don't see the heart cannot grieve over basically, rather than simple explanation.

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I like this. You aren't the only person who sometimes tries to find out things that will only raise doubt and cause pain where there was none before.

It seems like you have a chance to be happy, but it requires something of you.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

You guys have mentioned that you would ignore these things, so relationships seem to be based I ignorant bliss. What the eyes don't see the heart cannot grieve over basically, rather than simple explanation.

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No, they're based on trust. If something were going on, I would get other clues. I never have, nor have I been less than trustworthy. We don't even open or read each other's email or regular mail. I don't need to use GPS 24/7.

The saying is that someone who isn't trusting usually isn't trustworthy.

Sorry, to clarify. She walked around to the back of her old apartment [where Kevin still lives] when our apartment complex is on the main road in front of her old apartment.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

I have another 3 weeks before my counselor returns from holiday. Its hard.

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I always referred my clients to someone else if I weren't available. Isn't there someone else you can go to meanwhile?

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Originally Posted by clickaus

Sorry, to clarify. She walked around to the back of her old apartment [where Kevin still lives] when our apartment complex is on the main road in front of her old apartment.

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Maybe she was throwing something into the Dumpster or following a stray cat.

Why does it have to be Kevin? There must be other people in that building. Or maybe she didn't have the phone for that 10 minutes and it was someone else carrying it. Like Wondergirl says, there are so many possibilities-from cats to who knows what. Plus of course the possibility that the phone is every now and then off by one or two hundred yards.

Also, earlier you dismissed the idea that Kelly was talking to Kevin because, you said, Kelly is married. So is your wife! Why do you trust Kelly more?

I am really glad you are getting the book! Meantime, delete the tracking software and put this out of your mind for 2 days. See if you can just will yourself to think nothing but good thoughts about your beautiful wife for 48 hours.

I think one of us should be tracking YOU, clickaus.

One of Hotchkiss' seven deadly sins of narcissism is #7 --

Bad Boundaries - narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply* to the narcissist will be treated as if they are part of the narcissist and be expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other.

*narcissistic supply -- The malignant narcissist receives psychological gratification from feelings of power that come from the outside world [and controlling another person]. Over time, the malignant narcissist becomes accustomed (even addicted) to this form of psychological gratification. Similar to other addictions, the narcissist needs to feed off other people's emotions for narcissistic supply to help stimulate their psychological needs. Without narcissistic supply, the narcissist will undergo withdrawal symptoms similar to a drug addict.

Do you go to the bathroom with her? Do you watch her every move when she is with you? Maybe the reason the woman is taking the long way is to have some peace and quiet.

What in the devil is wrong with you?

Clickaus

Just out of curiosity , do you by any chance also check her Phone??

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Originally Posted by friend4u178

Clickaus

Just out of curiosity , do you by any chance also check her Phone ???

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OMG... I forgot to ask that!

And her mail, email, IM history, clothing (the sniff test is good), the bags when she comes in from shopping ("Yo, sweetie, what did you buy today? -- oh, what's this book of love poetry for? You know I hate reading poetry")...

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Originally Posted by wondergirl

and her mail, email, im history, clothing (the sniff test is good), the bags when she comes in from shopping....

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Wg... :d

Kelly doesn't know Kevin and Kevin was her ex flatmate in that apartment complex.
Hmm yes sometimes I check her phone and she looks through mind [maybe for different reasons]. She goes through my email at home as I don't hide that, whereas I never get to see hers, but that doesn't seem to bother me. And no, I don't go to the bathroom with her.. sometimes the shower but that's another story :)

I mean Kevin was my wife's ex flatmate, before she was my wife, not Kelly's.

Keep seeing the counselor!

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Originally Posted by clickaus

I mean Kevin was my wife's ex flatmate, before she was my wife, not Kelly's.

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Ex Flatmate , not Ex BF. So surely if she wanted anything to do with Kevin other than friendship she would have back then , and not married you.

I really believe your making something out of nothing because of being cheated on in the past , can't you see that's not fair to her?

If she wanted Kevin or anyone else
She would have married them.

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We have know each other just a few months.
Met in Early January, went on a mini break on 26 Jan and Proposed, married March 7.

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I am 55 she is 43, her daughter 17
Currently she doesn't work

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We met online, dating agency, as soon as we established we were an item we both cancelled our subscription.

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So you have known her just shy of 7 months. I would be insecure too! But that's no excuse at all for your actions, or hers (in marrying you!)!!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

So you have known her just shy of 7 months. I would be insecure too! But thats no excuse at all for your actions, or hers (in marrying you!)!!!

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Exactly... Great Point

Hi guys.
I am trying so hard to be a better guy, trying so hard to put things into perspective, trying so hard to put past bad relationships back in a box.
I called my wife as I usually do during the day, a morning break or a lunch break. This day I called during my lunch break just to say hi.. when she tells me she was at the shopping mall just having a coffee with Kevin [those who have been reading my saga will know who Kevin is], I was a little taken back and she asked if I wanted speak with him, I did, and he just said they are having coffee at 'Gloria Jeans' in the Mall. I tried to be civil and polite by saying that we haven't really been introduce properly and suggested all of us 'catch up for dinner'. He then handed my wife back on the phone. She could tell I wasn't happy, but I was calm. I known they spent at least 2 hours together. On the way home I was trying so hard to tell myself it was OK, but I couldn't stop being so upset about it. When I got home my wife could tell I wasn't happy. We talked, I learned that she actually called him to arrange to go for coffee, again I could understand why she would do that knowing that I wouldn't be happy. It ended up with her being upset and me feeling bad. She has a lot of time on her hands as she doesn't work and Kevin has just finished his exams so he has more free time. I said It was important that I meet Kevin but she says that he isn't so comfortable and he doesn't so much free time... he was able to find two hours to meet with her though. I am confused and hurt and scared. I still believe that it is not appropriate for a married woman to call and spend time with single male friends. Am I wrong? She doesn't seem to adhere to the same thinking and says she wants to meet and talk with people to help learn english, I understand this but when she says 'talking with friends' I can't help but think she refers to friends as 'guys' I could be wrong but that's what I think is implied and it is causing confusion and concern with me. I need your wrath again guys

Relax guy, calm down. For a change I agree with you. But you have to let her know in a gentle way that its okay to have male friends (My wife has many), but its just respect that you know her friends.

Keep it simple, and keep it calm, and matter of fact, just because it is.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Relax guy, calm down. For a change I agree with you. But you have to let her know in a gentle way that its okay to have male friends (My wife has many), but its just respect that you know her friends.

Keep it simple, and keep it calm, and matter of fact, just because it is.

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I agree with Tal... as he said; keep it calm. Don't accuse him of anything.

Thank you
When we first started our relationship I immediately introduced her to as many of my immediate friends as I could, some friends I haven't seen in a while so I haven't counted those. The first friend I introduced her to was my female friend who is also Chinese, so I thought it would be good for my wife to have someone to talk to in her own language, she is married and with a child and we have been friends for 12 years. I maintain there is a difference as she is married I am married and we both have met each others family/partner we have been to their place many times. BUT since being in a relationship I have never called or contacted any of my single female friends [although I did get a birthday call from my ex girlfriend, who lives in Japan, when I was walking with my wife one day. That was awkward]. And because she knows I get upset I start wondering how many times she actually meets him and doesn't mention it knowing I would be upset. Confusing.


I have learned that he is supposed to be coming for dinner Sunday afternoon. Now I am a little apprehensive as I don't know how I am going to feel or how I am going handle it. How do I act naturally when I have so much in my head.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

I have learned that he is supposed to be coming for dinner Sunday afternoon. Now I am a little apprehensive as I don't know how I am going to feel or how I am going handle it. How do I act naturally when I have so much in my head.

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Just as you would treat a friend. Just as she would treat one of your friends. Be friendly and make him feel at home. You don't know if there is anything going on.

Just to be clear Tal, which bit do you agree with?

About you knowing her friends personally, man, or woman.

Hi guys
Things have been fairly calm over the past few weeks.
Early in our relationship she made a throw away comment about her eagerness in learning english something like 'if I am at the shopping mall someone could say 'hi pretty lady can I buy you a coffee' and she said that she could practice to learn english. Those of you who have followed my saga may remember that this was a sticking point for me as I was concerned that this was an indication of her character. I have mentioned this comment a couple of times suggesting it made me a little worried and at one time she actually said that 'If I told you that never happened would you feel better', OK. Last night we were talking about things in general which brought up the same topic. About meeting people on a day to day basis that you come in contact with living in the area and just saying hi in passing. I reminded her that my concern about being too friendly started with her throw away comment about someone in a shopping mall inviting her for coffee. She then said OK this guy who is a security guy at the shopping mall ask her to have a coffee and they had a nice chat, she said he a retired guy [so what]. So there were my concerns of all this time had come out in this conversation. A stranger invited her for coffee and she accepted, obviously a stranger who was interested enough to ask her for coffee. Of course, I didn't think ask as to whether she had seen him since, now that has filled my head with another set of unanwered questions. I ask you, is this a normal part of a relationship. I am confused as to what is regarded normal and acceptable behaviour and what is not. I what so much to have a normal relationship, have the trust the all of you say is paramount in a relationship, but I cannot understand why she has the need to talk to so many people. It always seems to be guys that she talks to... a guy in the elevator on the way to putting out the garbage... a security guy at the mall... so confused as to what to acceptable and normal. I need your comments again please.

Geeze... It might be a little odd, but I don't think he's going to run away with her. You need to get a grip.

I may add that she seems to think, for her, this is normal behaviour. Being friendly to people. And as long as this is in a public place not a private place, this is normal behaviour.. I ask that for mutual trust I would have to trust that she wasn't 'getting to know' new people [guys] over coffee etc.

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Originally Posted by clickaus

I may add that she seems to think, for her, this is normal behaviour. Being friendly to people. And as long as this is in a public place not a private place, this is normal behaviour.. I ask that for mutual trust I would have to trust that she wasn't 'getting to know' new people [guys] over coffee etc.

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She'ss a friendly person. I'm sure this retired guy was no Brad Pitt. Her safety I would be more concerned about. Give her a break or I promise... she will find someone else and really I couldn't blame her if you keep on interrogating her. You would drive me insane.

She's not a prisoner nor a possession... Knock off the questions.
Sorry, but being blunt is the only way to get through to you.