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"Open to discussing it and having a good time together" is just that, no more. Please internalize that and not push for more.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbignow
Discussion, not conclusion.
Keep it light, have a good time; don't look for an answer this weekend.
Don't hold her to anything she says in the moment, or to be nice because you put her on the spot. Don't put her on the spot. :)
Good luck!
Woah, I didn't say it was the key to the rest of my life; I'm no psychic. Read it again please. Also, that's why I spoke with her at length last night; I wanted to make it perfectly clear that I was not misinterpreting ANYTHING... and said that very thing as well... However, she did say last night that she wants to talk more about these things this weekend. She didn't say no, but given the method of her departure, there wasn't any time for communication and she wasn't willing to hear anything but that I'm a horrid father and husband, and she needs to get away no matter the cost. Now that she's been away for a month, it would appear she is beginning to see that you can't really run away from your problems, and that I'm not the root of her problems. Anyway, she was very warm and open to discussing our relationship, and wants to visit and talk more this weekend. Her vehicle broke down as well, and so I'm going to have to drive up there and pick them up. She asked if I would. Now, call me silly but we're going to be driving together for a pretty long time (4 hours each way); if she wanted nothing to do with me that wouldn't even be a request and she wouldn't want to be with me for that long. So, the kids are going to stay at her dad's house and we're going to take care of some business and try to enjoy one another's company.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Understood, but also know that I asked what her intentions were last night because I don't feel like misunderstanding or misconstruing her comments. She did reveal that a major source of resentment and hatred towards me was due to a lack of sexual intimacy (over six months now). Might sound odd coming from the female partner, but I just wasn't into it and could have gone without. She is not that way, and this was revealed last night. I always figured we'd discuss our problems before they reached critical mass, which I think she also appreciated hearing. So, for what it's worth I think a lot of this was the result of sexual frustration. She also said that she could have reacted more favorably and instead of getting angry she could have been warmer and tried to find out what was wrong and communicated her desires. If you earnestly love your partner and are willing to communicate your issues, most other things work themselves out. Kind of sad to think that this all might have been avoided had I taken "care of business" in the bedroom... it's not everything, of course, but she might not have gone over the edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
But did you actually take in and absorb what she said?Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbignow
If you read this board much you find that this is not odd, but extremely common. My impression from reading here (no stats) is that it's more often women who are sexually frustrated in a marriage than men.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbignow
It IS kind of sad.Quote:
Kind of sad to think that this all might have been avoided had I taken "care of business" in the bedroom... it's not everything, of course, but she might not have gone over the edge.
But I don't think it's respectful to say she "went over the edge." You had mentioned that this was an issue in your initial post/or early on. It's a significant issue for a lot of women.
I don't know where the idea came from that women don't like sex. I suppose it's a holdover from when there was no birth control and fear of pregnancy was an issue and intercourse was so often inflicted on them when they were unwilling. Most of the time, those don't apply anymore.
I'll rephrase that. When I say "over the edge" I mean moving the children to another school (especially our child with autism; he really doesn't tolerate change well and we usually take great pains to keep his world consistent), and leaving without ever sitting down and discussing these issues with me to try and resolve them first. I would have listened, which I hope is what she took away from our conversation last night. I WOULD HAVE LISTENED, and it might have saved a whole lot of pain and suffering, not to mention life-altering decisions... but if the partner doesn't communicate how seriously unhappy they are, then the other really has no clue and it shouldn't be assumed that they don't know or don't care (I didn't know, for that matter).Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I'll have to give you that one; the stereotype of women not wanting sex runs rampant and I thought my wife was rather unusual for wanting it often. I used to really like that, but the past year it's been a chore, and the past six months I've neglected that part of our relationship altogether.
Her words,
"I understand that we get older and things slow down, but NEVER?"
Also, I only brought up that issue because it has been an obvious point of contention for her. I do want to please her, of course.
We also discussed that the last time we had "our" time was two years ago when we took a weekend to ourselves and spent the night out of town simply enjoying each other in a resort town. It was fun, and we both had a great time. That's something else we need to focus on, instead of merely working all the time and being parents. She agreed.
And she may have missed more than the sex act. She may have missed the romance and emotional intimacy -- the pat on the arm or your hand srtroking the curve of her cheek while the two of you were driving somewhere, knowing looks exchanged (indicating you're on the same page mentally), your gentle pat on her behind as you walk past her at the sink in the kitchen, doing a slow dance in the living room while Johnny Mathis (Beyonce?) croons. That's "making love" 24/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Speaking of Beyonce, watch a Youtube of the Obamas dancing on Inauguration Night or just note how the Obamas act toward each other when they are together. I'm betting that's what the OP's wife would love to experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I hear you (or, I read you... ;)). Right, it's the closeness as well... there's no arguing it: life is tough, and the world is a fairly cold place. Romantic intimacy is one of the few things that reminds us it isn't like that everywhere and all the time. Geez, this has been the longest week for me... I figure after this weekend we'll at least have a solid plan either way. Either I get a small cabin with all utilities paid by myself, or we see about merely getting a smaller house... or, we just agree to keep the communication open and see how things go with no commitment either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Um, I think I did.
Don't be fooled, as the lack of sex, or intimacy, between long term partners, is only a symptom of a greater problem that needs to be addressed.
Understood. She called this morning at about 7:30 a.m. to make sure we're still on for this weekend. It is superbowl weekend, which is important to her... she loves football; I couldn't care less about it. Still, I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page regarding this weekend. I told her that I don't want to be the only one trying to make our marriage work, and that I'm not driving a total of 16 hours just so she can pick up her stuff and move a few things into storage. She said she understood, and that her intention was to talk about our future & marriage as well and see if it could be worked out somehow. So, early tomorrow morning I'll drive 4 hours to pick her and the children up; take the children to her father's, and then come back home with her; we'll go out and have a good time, and then come back to the house; she's going to stay the night at home with me, but we'll see how sleeping arrangements work out; I have the intention of seeing what she wants to do. Personally, I miss her at night so much it hurts and want to sleep in the same bed, but I'll see what she prefers. However, I get the impression that she also might feel the same way, and once that gets started you know what's coming next... I think it would be a good thing, even if it doesn't necessarily end with her coming home. Go on a date, possibly become intimate, and determine a plan for our future; that's my goal for this weekend. It could very well end with merely deciding to do that again in a few weeks... I just don't know. We plan on discussing our relationship and hopefully reconcile some of our differences (which were never discussed), while at the same time trying to have a good time and focusing on our relationship. If all goes well, this could be a weekend of reconciliation... not sure she'd move back yet, but at least we could work on it. I'm also showing her that I'm willing to do what it takes for our family to be together and happy. Lack of intimacy was a big problem for her, and I have to say that while I enjoyed it I slipped into a depression and anxiety that made it difficult for me to respond to her or even want to try and spend time alone together. Also, I quit taking my depression medication about six months ago, which probably didn't help the situation either. I loved my wife and found her attractive (she is, in fact, an attractive woman), but I just felt too lethargic and depressed to engage in much of anything with her. We (I, primarily) were surrounded by our children all the time, and never had any time for each other. We discussed how much we used to enjoy talking to each other about various issues (politics, social issues, science, ect; we used to watch The Universe on the History Channel because we both loved the idea of space and space exploration), and we do miss having each other around to discuss these things. Even though we differ politically (she's ultra-conservative Republican, I'm a more liberal Independent; we disagree on almost every political issue there is!), we always enjoyed engaging each other in coversation. I miss my wife, plain and simple. I'm going to show her that I love her and that I want things to work out...Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Seems after 13 years you would know how to make love to her mind.
And remember... channel Carl Rogers. Empathy, empathy, empathy. Active listening. Good eye contact. Effective body language. Get inside her skin. Listen to her and hear what she says. Less from you and more from her. Have some great snacks for the football game.
We will expect a report.
Right, that's why I wrote this:Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
"We discussed how much we used to enjoy talking to each other about various issues (politics, social issues, science, ect; we used to watch The Universe on the History Channel because we both loved the idea of space and space exploration), and we do miss having each other around to discuss these things. Even though we differ politically (she's ultra-conservative Republican, I'm a more liberal Independent; we disagree on almost every political issue there is!), we always enjoyed engaging each other in coversation. I miss my wife, plain and simple. I'm going to show her that I love her and that I want things to work out..."
I think you miss each other, so just act like it. ( no kids huh!! )
Good luck. I have been following this from the start. I agree with wondergirl LISTEN more than you talk. ANd you don't have to be right.
Listen Validate Learn and Love. You have the drive. Now you just need to engage the tools.
Good Luck
That's one thing I've definitely learned in life; you can be right, or you can (in my case, have my family) be loved.Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvan_1998
I don't have to be right; there's no prize for being so...
And I literally, "have the drive" because she lives 4 hours away and I have to pick her up, drop off the kids, come back here, and then take her back on Sunday while then driving back here... plenty of time to listen.Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvan_1998
Stay the course of patience and understanding. Don't pursue, argue or even suggest. In due time she can come to her senses and return hopefully not too long before it takes its toll on the children. Also for your own financial security and that of your children, do not voluntarily offer support. Only through consulting with an attorney will you protect your children's welfare and your own financial stability. Allow emotions to drive everything will only help you get burned and hurt your children in the long term. It doesn't mean you will file for a divorce but seeking the advice of an attorney NOW will help tons in the future. Good Luck and God Bless.
Ok, the weekend has come and gone. Some good things transpired, and some not so good. For starters, we slept together, but didn't [I]sleep[I]together; it was so nice just having her next to me and being able to "snuggle" with my wife. She said that our son is angry with her and blames her for "taking my father away" which does bother her quite a bit and weighs on her mind. Some things we just had to agree to disagree, and I have to tell you I'm not happy at all about being forced to live in a 1-room cabin at the KOA campground after working hard for so many years to improve our lives. It's a lose-lose situation. If it works out, we've lost most of our belongings and furniture which will have to be replaced to the tune of thousands of dollars. If it doesn't, I lose my family. I just didn't understand why we can't try to work this out while maintaining our family's social, financial, and educational structure (also, how can we work this out if we're 4 hours away?); what is gained by tearing our family apart, and how can it possibly be justified?
She did cry a few times while we went through our belongings and threw most of them away. She said it wasn't easy and that she really doesn't like tearing our family apart, and that she panicked which led to her leaving so quickly & unpredictably. For the first time, she expressed an emotion other than anger regarding our separation (and towards me). Also, she said she hates being almost 40 and being forced to live with her parents and depend on them financially. I told her, "It doesn't have to be this way! Come home, we can go to counseling and that way at least be self-sufficient and in a position where we can deal with each other on a regular basis to see if this will work out."
She also said that if she does decide to come back, it's going to be for good and "until one or both of us are dead." I took her out to a nice pizza place (it's a hole in the wall, but they have the BEST pizza around and also serve microbrews... unlike most of the establishments around here), which she apparently enjoyed.
I also told her that while I don't expect a solid answer right now, but that as long as she doesn't confirm what she wants I'll have to make plans for the future. I've applied to two different Ph.D. programs... one close to her, and one far away. She asked when I'd need to know, because once I leave my job and head out of state I'm not turning around to come back here; it will truly be too late for me. Also, I take particular issue with whether she begins seeing anyone else; that's another line I'm not willing to cross with hopes of reconciliation... she says she has no intention of doing that sort of thing. Difficult to pack the entire weekend into a few paragraphs, but it ended with two kisses and a commitment on her part to try marriage counseling. Neither one of us wants to be miserable, or the other to be miserable. I am tired of fighting with my spouse. So, I now have the task of finding marriage counseling that won't be conducted by anyone at my place of employment (hey, some of these issues get really dicey), and I'd rather not end up having our marriage counselor being on a committee that decides whether I might get a promotion or something like that; at a small university of 3000 students that can happen.
We spoke for hours, all the while she let me hold her and love on her. I told her that my relationship with her is the single most important thing in my life (might sound odd to our divorce-generation but I firmly believe that a happy family starts with a happy/healthy marriage), and that I really want to work this out if at all possible.
In the end, she agreed to try counseling and said that she'd drive down for it and make time with her work schedule. Considering it's a 4-hour drive each way, I see that as a commitment to our marriage and family. It's not exactly what I wanted, and like I said, I really resent being forced to live like a homeless person while she gets to live with her mother rent-free in a nice home while I'm also saddled with all of our financial obligations other than groceries and the like. So, there it is; in a nutshell. Feel free to ask any other questions, and I'll likely remember and elaborate.
Why can't you put your Ph.D on hold for a year or so, and get an apt. close to her and the kids? If you want your marriage to work, as you say you do, than why opt to move out of state, and be so far away. Then you will never see the kids and her, and then probably I don't think you will ever have a chance to make your marriage work. Well you say you love her and the kids, if you do, then why would you even consider to move out of state? It doesn't make sense to me, unless I am missing something. It would help her along the way and you being so close to her and the children you would be able to see your children as much as you can. I don't understand, what there is to think about, other than moving up near her temporarily and see where that takes you.
That sounds nice, but have you seen the job market and tried to find one lately? While my salary still qualifies my family of 5 for food stamps (by itself... with no one else working), it's the highest single salary we have/had coming in and I can't just move up to Fayetteville without at least being in a doctoral program with a competitive financial aid package. Since she left all the bills to me, I can't quit now unless I get a massive "bailout" haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by sully123
I'm looking at the Ph.D. program in Texas because it actually pays out more than I bring home working full-time! Sad... just really sad but what I'm saying is that if I'm alone, I'm going to get my doctorate because I moved down here for my family (thought 30K a year salary would be adequate in Arkansas... boy was I wrong); no family, and I'm going to finish it because if we divorce then 40% of my take-home pay is for child support. I'd be STUCK at this job with no prospects for finishing my education, and I'd be earning practically minimum wage once you take out all my deductions... a master's degree and living on Ramen noodles and $900 a month? Surely you can see the misery of that situation.
Also, just to clarify...Quote:
Originally Posted by sully123
Ph.D. applicants typically apply about a year before they matriculate to the school and actually begin classes... as it is, I'm really pushing the deadline for fall 2009 as it is, and if I don't get into one for fall 2009 I'll have to retake the GRE (think: torture) because my scores will be five years old. So, I wouldn't begin until August 2009, which is quite a ways away. If I waited a full year, I wouldn't look at getting in until August of 2010...
I lived on Ramen noodles, for quite along time. I worked three jobs for quite a few years, with 75 a week child support and two kids. But I did it, just because I did it for my kids. I would drive from one job to another 45 minutes away.Because my kids came first to me. I could never leave their side, ever. That's what I don't understand, you would still opt to move away, and think of your career. Sorry but I think that is selfish. I don't want to sound mean or anything, but your thnking of yourself and what's good for you. I am very well aware of the job market, but I am sure if you chose someplace closer to the kids and her, your life would turn for the better. The farther you go away from her and your children they will drift away from you, and you will never have a chance of reconciliation with your wife and the kids. They will miss having a father around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully123
I'm glad you can sympathize and have been in a similar situation, that does help. They already miss their Daddy dreadfully, and according to my wife, our son has expressed anger and resentment towards her for "stealing" his Daddy away. Our daughters have expressed that they miss me as well, but I didn't expect our son (who is autistic) to take any of this very well. I've no doubt that he's having a lot of trouble in school and possibly at home as well. The only thing I can see good about it is that their grandmother is there to help take care of them on a daily basis, and having an "extra" set of parents was also important to me when I was a child and my parents divorced... the security that my grandparents provided did help to alleviate some of the pain and confusion of the divorce; I was too young to remember and still in diapers, but my mother left my father and took us both with her while he was at work... she moved back to California and lived with her parents... all I remember is that I never grew up in a household with two loving parents until I met my foster parents at age 16. I went to a substance abuse treatment center (extremely intensive and long-term.. but it saved my life and is helping now), and lived with a family who also had a son in the program. I still write and visit them, and I consider them my family as well. My father and stepmother appeared to have more of a business-type agreement and they never seemed very happy together; she took care of the home and kids while he went to medical school... they divorced after 25 years of marriage, and she is now working a dead-end job without any of the former benefits of being the doctor's wife... money wasn't that important to her until she lost it all! Funny how that works...
Anyway, I digress...
I hear you about moving up there and trying to reconcile while being near my children. My wife has agreed to attend marriage counseling with me, which is definitely a step in the right direction. Three weeks ago she wouldn't entertain the idea, so I'm not sure what's happened but apparently she's calmed down and decided that maybe our marriage and family IS worth trying to save. She also admitted that she panicked and left in a much hastier manner than she should have. I'm hopeful that it can probably be worked out, but I'm not willing to give up my job unless a better one has been secured, which is questionable when our unemployment and underemployment rates are at historic highs. I don't want to move to College Station, but the program will pay more than I bring home now and if I'm divorced there's no point in staying here... I'll take any opportunity I can get in order to leave Arkansas... I really don't like it here, I'm not originally from here (California originally) and won't stay here if I'm divorced. It might be selfish, but I'm not going to be a martyr and "die for the cause" of being near my children. They can visit me in College Station just as much as they can being 4 hours away, and I'll have the added benefit of earning my Ph.D. so that I can teach on the university level and hopefully double my salary. What I'm not willing to do is throw away a secure job during an economic downturn; that is foolish to the nth degree! I told my wife she's welcome to come home and attend nursing school; once she's finished then we can move wherever (I had hoped she'd finish nursing school and then she can work while I finish my Ph.D.; it'd be a comfortable living... I'm tired of being a poor college student!) but a) we can't both attend school at the same time if we live together b) I'm not leaving my job unless I've found something better. If she ran away from here, what reassurances do I have that she won't do it again and leave me in dire straits WITHOUT an income or full-time job? But that's just it; her rhetoric and demeanor have changed dramatically and she even kissed me goodbye twice on Sunday while hugging me.
My interpretation? She loves me as much as I do her, but we have issues and we're both tired of arguing all the time. I'll go from being happy with her to frustrated in about 2 seconds. Certain things, like the fact that she doesn't pick up after herself, frustrate the hell out of me because I like keeping things clean and neat... she just doesn't care, and will let dishes pile up, laundry pile up, and throw clothing all over the room for weeks at a time... when I pick it up, she complains about it and demands that I leave everything of hers alone. I also pick up her shoes constantly, because she'll leave 4-6 pairs on the floor even though she has a shoe rack hanging on her closet door. It's things like these that we argue over, in addition to the lack of physical intimacy.
Too bad your mother didn't go to medical school herself. Then she wouldn't have had to choose. I have a friend who just left her MD husband. Fortunately, she's an MD too. And unlike him, she doesn't have trouble keeping a job.Quote:
Greatbignow;1527515My father and stepmother appeared to have more of a business-type agreement and they never seemed very happy together; she took care of the home and kids while he went to medical school... they divorced after 25 years of marriage, and she is now working a dead-end job without any of the former benefits of being the doctor's wife..
I note your arrogant and sarcastic tone here, once again demonstrating your lack of respect and love.Quote:
Three weeks ago she wouldn't entertain the idea, so I'm not sure what's happened but apparently she's calmed down and decided that maybe our marriage and family IS worth trying to save.
I think that pretty much says it all. You aren't listening to any of the advice given here. Your sense of entitlement is palpable.Quote:
I'm divorced there's no point in staying here... I'll take any opportunity I can get in order to leave Arkansas... I really don't like it here, I'm not originally from here (California originally) and won't stay here if I'm divorced. It might be selfish, but I'm not going to be a martyr and "die for the cause" of being near my children.
You have to stop doing that. No one should have to live with that. Not your wife, not your children, not anyone else you end up with.Quote:
I'll go from being happy with her to frustrated in about 2 seconds.
So was there a connection? You wouldn't make love to her because the house was messy? Also, I thought you said earlier that the dishes and laundry were something you did. Did you also not do these chores regularly?Quote:
... she just doesn't care, and will let dishes pile up, laundry pile up... I also pick up her shoes constantly, because she'll leave 4-6 pairs on the floor even though she has a shoe rack hanging on her closet door. It's things like these that we argue over, in addition to the lack of physical intimacy.
P.S. I have a master's degree and I eat a lot of Ramen.
Also, I think the various boot camps you went through were terrible for you. You have internalized the idea that people can be "fixed" through coercion and emotional violence.
Wow, apparently we're looking at these statements through very different lenses. On the chores, I HAD BEEN doing those (almost like you don't believe me?). I was talking about the past on the dishes, but with the room, yes that was recent. I don't want to be stuck in a poverty state for the rest of my life, especially alone. How is that a sense of entitlement? To want things like a future and a salary I can actually live on isn't asking too much... I really think that's an unfair judgment on your part. Have you seen the poverty in rural Arkansas or lived around it? How about being STUCK in it and never having a chance of leaving? There are few opportunities here... Governor Huckabee once described Arkansas as being "...like a third-world country." The only place I've seen that compares would be the slums in Mexico... it's not that far off in the hardest-hit areas.
I'm getting ready to move out of our home and live in a CABIN at a CAMPGROUND... how in the hell is that a sense of entitlement? It sucks, is was it does. And I'm not going to condemn myself to that kind of existence for the indefinite future just so I can live 4 hours away from my wife and children. They can move down here as well.
I'll bet, just from what you've written on this post, you a lousy listener, ( if you listened) and treated your wife and family like objects, that you tried to mold to your own standards.
You know, earlier I took the observations into consideration and tried to use them appropriately. Now you're just being insulting and essentially demanding I live in poverty and like it. My wife and I are trying to work out our issues, but some posters on the board are apparently not listening either. I might be done here, because the feedback is starting to sound downright condescending and rude. You bet I'm a lously listener? Gee, thanks, how is that supposed to be helpful?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I treat my family like objects that I try to mold to my own standards? You've gone too far with that one. It's incorrect, insulting, and sounds fairly hateful.
She's the one who left. Why should I move and leave my job? It might not pay much, but it's all I have and quite a few people are unemployed or working in fast-food right now. I'm not going to take that risk... she could move back if she wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by sully123
"Never make a person a priority in your life, while allowing them to make you an option in theirs."Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
THIS is what I'm doing by looking into moving and completing my education. I'm not going to be an option and move around to follow her and the children when it will mean further financial disaster for me. That sounds pitiful and codependent to me... if the divorce happens, I'm "moving on" and taking care of myself first... why chase someone around the state and country? If she wants to come home, she will, but I'm not going to chase them around and lose my job over it.
Why should you move and leave your job? Because of your children! I don't get it. Your children need you, but your not listening to what your wife says, they miss you. Does that mean anything to you? Evidently it doesn't, because you wouldn't choose your career over them. Their acting out, they want their father,and you want what's good for you, and not what's best for them. I have a great nephew who is severely autistic, who is 8 years old, and his father travels 1 1/2hours away to his job, and travels everyday to Washington DC, and they live in Pennsylvania, just so his son goes to one of the best schools for autisim. He travels everyday that far too work, because its for his son. I am sorry, you say how much you love your children, but you have a poor way of showing it. It seems all this time, its all about you and what you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbignow
That attitude will keep you from your family. So get ready to move on, and be a doctor, or whatever your going to be. Why not set your family free, and stop all this back and forth?
You have been using the same argument for twenty pages, but have not budged unless its going to be your way.
Let us know how that works for you.
Personally, a healthy marriage should be a good place for both to grow, and share, and care.
Sorry, just don't see it here.
I agree Tal with you. He doesn't have it in him to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I've been thinking the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
basically, greatbigbow you are a right fighter. You think you are right and are not going to cave until everyone is on page with you. You are making plans to where if they do not agree with you, what you will do.
Are you wrong, no. Is your wife, probably not. Do you see eye to eye? No and that is why you are separated.
With that said, it is only for you to decide what will happen from here on out. Your decisions seem to be economic in nature, and future directed. Okay, if that works for you, those are important things.
What everyone is trying to say, you have the economics down... but what about the effect of being without your influence in your children's lives. Okay so you show them fiscal responsibility but they live with the absence of your daily influence. Is that the price you want to pay? You talk about how bad your wife's families decision making processess are but you are willing to leave your children with them so that their influence everpresent in their lives.
See where I am going. And what has all the responders so upset is they agree with the values you place on what you describe on her family but you do not feel your children are worth stepping up to the plate for.
And the common theme of most of your repsonses is how can I fix my wife. How can I fix this marriage and fix her to see things my way. Look at what I am offering them and why can she not take it... how stupid can she be.
What you need to be doing is listening to what she wants. Maybe it is the same as you... but maybe not. Stop throwing what she is giving up by not being with you in her face. Stop telling her how miserable your econoic situation is with out her.
Do I think you are a bad guy, NO. Do I think she is making mistakes, YES. But you two need a mediator to get each other to listen to what each has to say and sit on each of your to hear what the other is saying. You need someone to help you with perspective in what you are proposing to do and you need to listen, really listen to that perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully123
I'm really not trying to be defensive or have a poor attitude, but I don't think you truly understand how miserable and poverty-stricken this area of the country is. Would you quit your job and work for minimum wage? That's likely what I'd be doing. I won't do it. My children also need their father to earn a wage that can support them... don't forget about that one. Being together and on welfare vs. being apart and having at least some reasonable standard of living? Appreciate your taking time to respond, as well as the other posters as well, but I don't think you understand.
It sounds like you've made up your mind.
You know...
What your wife may be looking for here is that you put her and the kids before yourself and your education and your career.
Just once.
I'm not the one who destroyed our family and finances without so much as sitting down and talking to their spouse about it. I'm not the one who ruined Christmas for their children by leaving their father 3 days before Christmas and couldn't wait at least a week or two (her primary complaints? I'm not having sex with her often enough, I'm boring, and I complain too much); I'm not the one who put my daughter's orthodontics treatment (braces) in jeapordy because I QUIT my job that had orthodontics insurance! What she did was foolish, impulsive, and selfish! She has made life much harder on ALL OF US because she wouldn't or couldn't go to work every day and support our family even when I took care of most domestic duties! I stayed right where I am, and did the responsible thing like GO TO WORK every day and try to take care of business. Even if I was miserable or had an emotional breakdown or mid-life crisis, I wouldn't all the sudden screw everyone's life up because I can't "hack" it. What if I did this to my wife and left her in financial straits? What would the board be saying about me then? Instead, I'm the bad guy because I have the tenacity and temerity to stick with things, even when they become difficult? I would NEVER drop my job or leave my family like she did; being a father also means getting up and going to work everyday to pay the bills, no matter how you feel emotionally.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
One thing probably is correct though, the boot camp did change me for the worse in some respects. I don't think I could possibly explain enough to do justice to the kinds of degrading and inhumane things that transpire within Arkansas correctional facilities. It killed most of what was fun and light-hearted within me. In some ways it made me more responsible and focused, regardless of what is going on around me but I still feel like some part of me died in there.
Regardless, I received a phone call from my wife this morning. Guess what? Her mother and step-father made it clear that she and the children are just too much for them; they're moving again as well! While I love my wife and children and of course want them home and will welcome them back, I want to use this as an example of how unstable and unrealistic these people are. My children would be moving around every 3-6 months OR LESS and changing schools just as often. Why in the world should I leave my steady job that will allow my wife to go to college PRACTICALLY FOR FREE and essentially cater to people who simply are not reliable? I'm not going to put my pearls before swine, as it were. I'm certainly not wealthy, but I'm not poor either (statistically anyway), and I'm not going to risk ruining everyone's lives financially just to suit someone's wishes. Guess what? Life is hard, and one would be wise to hold on to whatever good things they have. That said, we are going to go to counseling, but I want the board to understand that this isn't all my fault and I don't appreciate any accusations alluding to that argument.Could I be a better listener? Probably; heck, there's always room for improvement, but the WAY it was stated was rude and the poster knows it. It wasn't intended to be helpful, but rather degrading.
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