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Originally Posted by joypulv

Sex 1 or 2 times a year? Being the boss?
You have turned into his mother.

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I agree. I accept. I became his nagging mother. I regret I treated him as a bad boy who is always make house room messy, not cleaning up. My fault. I deeply regret.

Sex? I never refused him. I was very cooperative in bed. He is under med since he is experiencing a erection dysfunction due to the a little serious diabetes... he used pill or even injection to get it up. The woman also complained "he even could not get up" but she stayed since she thought he was a big shot.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

Little story about 2 women: I had a boyfriend in the mid 70s who discovered he had cancer in his 20s. I borrowed a car from my parents to take him to radiation and chemo. He not only took that car to go play poker late one snowy night, he deliberately parked it where it would get towed because it was closest to our building, and didn't care. I had to get it out. He left me at a laundromat with something like 12 washers full of HIS clothes and borrowed my car for just a few minutes, and never came back (poker again, I think). Finally - he had an affair with a friend. He was angry at the whole world and took it out on me.

Over 10 years later, he was married to a roommate of mine. We were all friends by then. I was even working for him. His wife started telling me about him leaving her at a laudromat (they were renovating their house)... I was rolling on the floor, howling.

40 years later, we are all still best friends.

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I am sorry. My head is still foggy, and I am not sure what you are trying to tell me here. Can you be clear?

I think you should give him another chance. Let him talk to you about why he did that and if it was because you did something wrong fix it and get back to your relationship. It's best for your children. :)

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Originally Posted by pointzero2015

I agree. I accept. I became his nagging mother. I regret I treated him as a bad boy who is always make house room messy, not cleaning up. My fault. I deeply regret.

Sex? I never refused him. I was very cooperative in bed. He is under med since he is experiencing a erection dysfunction due to the a little serious diabetes... he used pill or even injection to get it up. The woman also complained "he even could not get up" but she stayed since she thought he was a big shot.

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I've avoided any finger pointing because I wasn't there...

But I wanted to point out a VERY important fact from a mans perspective. And perhaps it might make the WHY question a little easier. Since you brought this up.

Not refusing and being cooperative (even better if its because you WANT to and not just because he wants to).. IS really important in keeping it lively and fresh... however it isn't nearly enough to cancel out incessant nagging and general complaining about everything.

To a guy... You could be a supermodel. BUT if all they can think of is excessive complaining and nagging when they think of you... its going to put them off... and even a much less attractive person with a pleasant disposition starts looking a lot better. (Yes I guess this would apply to both genders but I can only speak as a guy). Its not going to happen overnight... but over time it does have an effect.

What's that old saying... Looks aren't everything? You need the rest to match.

I would suppose there is a small subset out there that might get turned on by that... Masochists or Submissives possibly. But to the average guy it's a huge turnoff.

Just as I assume a guy that does nothing but complain and bellyache about this, that and the other thing... isn't going to be as appealing to women.

Not saying there isn't a time and place. There is, just that it shouldn't be constant, everyday.. or even frequent. Save it for the worst of the events.

Like they say... worry about the big things and the little things will take care of themselves.

And everyone's stress levels are reduced.

Smoothy, I agree, and thanks for your man's prospective.
Although, I am not sure he created the affair to revenge me because I was nagging. I am still shocked he COULD do such a thing to me, and struggling to find out the best solution for my kids and my future.

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Originally Posted by llaurenball

I think you should give him another chance. Let him talk to you about why he did that and if it was because you did something wrong fix it and get back to your relationship. It's best for your children. :)

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llaurenball, you seem a very sweet person. Thanks for reading my post and having sympathy for me.

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Originally Posted by pointzero2015

Smoothy, I agree, and thanks for your man's prospective.
Although, I am not sure he created the affair to revenge me because I was nagging. I am still shocked he COULD do such a thing to me, and struggling to find out the best solution for my kids and my future.



llaurenball, you seem a very sweet person. Thanks for reading my post and having sympathy for me.

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I agree... I can't say what was going on in his mind that motivated him. Only he knows that. Not saying its justified, I'm just pointing out how a guy thinks that might move him towards that direction.

Some people can't be motivated enough to do it...others (male and female) need seemingly little motivation.

I have to voice a woman's perspective here.

I've been married for 20 years, together for 25, two kids. Marriage has it's ups and downs, anyone that says they're always happy in their marriage, is a liar.

One of the major issues my husband and I have is his messiness. I mean really, would it kill him to not leave his dirty underwear on the floor right beside the hamper? Don't even get me started on the rest.

For a man sex is a physical thing. Of course being in love with the person is also important, but it's mostly physical.

For a woman it's emotional. I can say that for me, if I spent the day picking up your dirty underwear, your dirty socks, taking your dishes off the table to put them in the dishwasher that's 4 steps away, picking up the garbage you literally threw on the floor, after driving our kids to school, picking them up, helping them with homework, and dealing with their school issues (I swear their teachers don't even know my husbands name, I take care of everything in that respect), I won't be able to just forget all that and enjoy sex.

Frankly, if you think about how mens minds work, and how women's minds work, it's a wonder that we even decide to marry each other. ;)

The reason I've been married for 20 years, in my opinion, is that my husband and I talk to each other when we're frustrated. More importantly, we listen to each other.

I don't think your nagging had anything to do with it. I don't think he had an affair to get revenge. I think that you two don't communicate well, and because of that you somehow lost your way. That doesn't mean that it's over. It doesn't mean you should just give up.

You said it yourself, he gave her 2 months, you gave him 10 years. Isn't a marriage based on love, that lasted 10 years, with kids involved, deserve to be fought for?

It's been 8 days. It's still a fresh wound. Right now you're in the grieving stage. This is not the time to make big decisions. It's the time to let yourself be upset (without taking it out on him or the kids), and decide (with a rational mind) what you want. Do you want to divorce, or do you want to give this marriage a chance?

I just got back from the counseling, but I am very frustrated. It was supposed to be a 45 min session, but the heated conversation lasted for 1.5 hours.
His story - he knows his affair cannot be justified, however, he started it because he felt he was unloved and ignored by me.
I remember one day when he came back home after 10 hours of long delayed flight, he was not treated as a center of the attention. I was running crazy for 24 hours with my full time job, 3 sick kids, and on the top of that I managed the major remodeling project in the house. We lived among boxes, and stress level was really high. We had the big argument over money, and I made him left very angry and unappreciated. I did not even give him a ride to the airport.

After the event, he allowed himself to register on the dating site. One thing led another, he had the affair. My husband told us that he did not even like the affair at all, and it lasted for 4 dates in the 2 month period. He is looking for mercy and stay in marriage. The therapist looked at my face. What will you do? I am even madder after heard his stupid excuse. We had the big argument in the car on the way back. He must be a mentally retarded & childish idiot, or a big time jerk. Can I save my marriage with this childish and selfish person? I think his IQ is -100!! Oh, lord.

Your feelings are too fresh and raw to even answer such a question and your emotional state is nowhere near a good place to even see the possibilities. To be clear the doctor you should be seeing is your family doctor. You both could use a cooling off period.

I know how listening and thinking is a hard thing to do while you are venting, raging, and emoting. When will your mom be there?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Your feelings are too fresh and raw to even answer such a question and your emotional state is nowhere near a good place to even see the possibilities. To be clear the doctor you should be seeing is your family doctor. You both could use a cooling off period.

I know how listening and thinking is a hard thing to do while you are venting, raging, and emoting. When will your mom be there?

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My parents are coming Friday morning, and I am picking them up at the airport.

Your counselor is lacking some skill at this. Is he a regular therapist or a couples counselor specialist? Couple counseling is very different from regular therapy. It's a method of teaching each person how to talk, ask, wish for, need - to EACH OTHER. It isn't hashing out the past and deciding who's to blame.

And you are both too conflicted right now to be seen together, my gosh! Individual for now!

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Originally Posted by joypulv

Your counselor is lacking some skill at this. Is he a regular therapist or a couples counselor specialist? Couple counseling is very different from regular therapy. It's a method of teaching each person how to talk, ask, wish for, need - to EACH OTHER. It isn't hashing out the past and deciding who's to blame.

And you are both too conflicted right now to be seen together, my gosh! Individual for now!

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Oh, gosh!
The first 30 min in the session, he complained and blames me from the closet space arrangement to the remodeling decision making.

T counselor stopped him and said that "even all that, that does not justify what you did", and it make him stop. He was in the position to defend himself and blame me, not focus on accepting and healing. I am in a hell.

His side story in the counseling

From the beginning, I did not want to take the job and go away from my family at all a year ago. I did not want to buy the house either since it was way over budget, but I agree it is nice our kids can have their own rooms in the house. My wife pushed and bought the house anyway. The house needed major remodeling. We did not even have a kitchen for months in the house.
Due to the remodeling cost, my wife wanted me to take the job. I am not a money machine. She does not respect me, or wanted to keep me in the house.
I did not have any other job offers yet at that time, I hade to take the job. I was miserable in the new place. I am family person, and I was loney, I came back home every 2 weeks, but I was not treated well either, and ended up having argument. I stopped talking.
Whenever I was on the flight to go back to my loney place, I was thinking "she has not been treated me well for years. it is not working. i am not happy". That lasted a year, and I had the affair. I wanted to have warm treatment from someone. That was wrong. What I had with another woman was not love. I regret. I am very sorry. I realized I love my wife. I want us to communicate and work it out again.

He made an appointment to see the same marriage counseler for us Thursday night. He says we need to communicate, which was broken years ago. My parents are coming Friday morning. I am looking for a woman counsler I can vent. I am still crying non stop because the most precious marriage vanished from my life.

Do you truly believe this was the most precious marriage... or is it your idea of what a marriage should be like that has vanished? Had your marriage been going well in your opinion? Did your husband ever voice any unhappiness... perhaps not directly saying so, )or perhaps he might have?), but did he make it somewhat known how he felt at times? He apparently did not feel that things were going well, or as well as he would have liked.


After a number of years of marriage, and a few kids especially, it can often be easy to fall into unhealthy patterns. Sometimes you may even be aware of it, but it becomes the routine, what you almost become comfortable with; the norm. The marriage relationship can easily get put on the back burner as everything else, kids, work, household to run, bills, extended family, etc. seem to take up so much time and energy, little gets left for the marriage. We expect our partners to go with the flow, to understand how it is... but that doesn't always happen, and dissatisfaction isn't always expressed as it should be.

Your perception of the relationship may be quite different from his. None of this excuses the choices he made, however. Too often people don't want to talk about the hard stuff; they don't want to rock the boat and prefer to avoid the possibility of a confrontation or negative emotions. "We" sometimes assume that the other person should just know how we feel or when we need something to be different without us asking for it. People don't always express their unhappiness or their needs... or sometimes they do, and the other person just doesn't pick up on it, or even may turn a blind eye to it as maybe they aren't getting what they really would like either.

All of this may be nothing that you or your husband can relate to... or maybe some of it is.

It is unfortunate that you learned how he was feeling by hearing it at a counseling session and not directly from him. Communication is obviously key... it sounds cliche, but situations such as this are often good examples of why it is so important.

I hope when your parents arrive, you can get a little breathing room. They could watch the kids, or take them out, so that you can have some time to yourself. Maybe see your doctor and the counselor on your own. Go out with a friend to a movie or meal. Something normal back in your life.

You have a valid point. How blind I was. He was quite, and I assumed all was OK. I am learning it in the hardest way.
I simply thought we were committed to each other for our life time, we stand on the unbreakable & solid ground, I took him as granted, and just pushed and pushed him.
I should listen to his needs and nurture our relationship for us. Obviously, I did not. What is the point of having a big house if the marriage is falling a part?

Unfortunately, some lessons are learned the hard way... many lessons are. But now you give yourself time to heal, move forward, make some changes, and you do better. See the counselor yourself, and with your husband. Go see your doctor. Spend time with family and friends. In time, your feelings will ease a bit, and you will be in a better position to make a decision on what you want to do in regards to your marriage.

Things are getting much better since my parents came in. They take care of my kids with love and care, and I feel the peace and balance in the house. Kids are obviously much much happier than before.
My mom comforts me, talks to me morning to night, and teaches me to be a wise mom and a good woman.
My dad talks to my husband, encourages him to be a good dad and a man.
We went 4 more marriage counseling sessions together almost every night too. We finally started to "COMMUNICATE" to each other again without anger. The issue was, We lost the communication somehow in the past years.
In a session, I apologized to my husband, I accepted I ignored his NEEDS to be with family & loving wife at HOME, pushed him away to a place far away, and did not even treat him well when he comes back home every 2 weeks.
He apologized his stupid affair, deeply regrets, begging for a second chance, and promised to rebuild the loving relationship with me.

I am still crying and grieving for the pain, but trying hard to understand what if I was in his shoes. What if I was pushed from family, and only received yelling and screaming from spouse whenever visit my own family? I assume I would be resentful too. I know it still does not justify what he did, but at least it makes me a better person.
It is a heart wrenching learning process for me.


If any women read this post, please see my mistake, appreciate your loved ones, and care with love before you ruin it.

Per my parents' intervention, he even moved back to our bedroom. We talked and cried all night long together on the first night he came back, and agreed we do not want divorce, but build a better family for us and kids.
Surprisingly, we recovered intimacy and passion which we have lost for the past years. His erection issue just disappeared. All the loving feeling came back to us just like 10 years ago, and we miss each other.

It was rainy today, I picked up my husband with my car (with kids and 2 dogs as my mom suggested) when he gets off from the bus. His new job made him as the BREAD WINNER in our family, and my husband seems very proud and happy.

I have to say though I did not forgive him yet. I still struggle. I am hunted by the pain. We cry together sometimes. Although my husband is trying to comfort me and keep saying sorry and he loves me as much as possible.

I am so happy we can have a good Christmas all together as usual. We will still go to the counseling sessions to heal for a while. Merry Christmas, everyone.

You've come a long way.

I think you're going to make this work. It sounds like both of you lost your way, and both of you made mistakes. Yes, what he did was hurtful, but now that you understand his side, how he felt, hopefully you can rebuild what was lost and find what brought the two of you together to begin with. I think you're on your way.

Forgiveness is often hard. I've had a lot of people hurt me in my life, and for way too long I held on to my anger, hatred, pain. The only thing that accomplished was making myself miserable. Holding on to anger for someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies from it. It only hurts you.

Don't forgive him for his sake, but for yours. Let the pain go, let the hurt go, let it all go. Forgive him so that you can heal. Don't you deserve that? You'll be amazed how letting anger and hurt go, can give you the peace you need.

Keep up with the counseling, and talking to each other. I would suggest that after Christmas, when your parents are back home, and you're both alone, that you hire a sitter, and have a night out, just the two of you. Spend some time with the man you fell in love with, find that love again.

Merry Christmas! Keep us updated on how it all goes. I have hope that it will all work out. :)

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Originally Posted by Alty

You've come a long way.

I think you're going to make this work. It sounds like both of you lost your way, and both of you made mistakes. Yes, what he did was hurtful, but now that you understand his side, how he felt, hopefully you can rebuild what was lost and find what brought the two of you together to begin with. I think you're on your way.

Forgiveness is often hard. I've had a lot of people hurt me in my life, and for way too long I held on to my anger, hatred, pain. The only thing that accomplished was making myself miserable. Holding on to anger for someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies from it. It only hurts you.

Don't forgive him for his sake, but for yours. Let the pain go, let the hurt go, let it all go. Forgive him so that you can heal. Don't you deserve that? You'll be amazed how letting anger and hurt go, can give you the peace you need.

Keep up with the counseling, and talking to each other. I would suggest that after Christmas, when your parents are back home, and you're both alone, that you hire a sitter, and have a night out, just the two of you. Spend some time with the man you fell in love with, find that love again.

Merry Christmas! Keep us updated on how it all goes. I have hope that it will all work out. :)

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Alty,
Every single word you gave to me here is like you exactly see though my heart. I am so amazed how you could understand me this much... I have goose bumps.

My parents will stay with us until 1st week of January, and it really helps us to rest physically, and emotionally. I can focus on our healing.

I saw my counselor yesterday by myself. I asked him "he cheated on me, hurt me so much, but since the root cause was the frequent & non stop fighting for the last years in our marriage, you are saying I need to stop yelling and punish him. are you suggesting me to reward him with nice and gentle care to my husband after he betrayed me?"

This old doctor told me "you both knows he did all wrong, and there is no justification. you have all the right to punish him, but how long would like to punish him? it does not help, if you want to rebuild marriage. sincere communication is the key. it is not reward, but repairing. you need to stop the negativity, because it will only make you crazy."

It made me think I need to control my anger more, and focus on to put everything behind not repeating his affair in my head repeatedly.

My husband is trying hard to make me happy. He takes me out almost every night for dinner. We went to movie last night. (I know he went to movies with the other woman when he had the affair, it killed me inside while I was with him in the movie theater, but I did not express my sadness.) He hates shopping mall, but he took me to a shopping mall, and waited for me for hours patiently while I was browsing the shopping mall.

He holds & comforts me in bed every night, which he has not done while ago. His word last night. "I really love you and I do not want to finish our marriage. I do not want to lose our 10 years, which means a lot to me. I made the big mistake, and I was self destructive. I am so sorry to hurt you. As you know, I finished it, and I came back to you, but unfortunately you found it out in the worst way. I am not taking easy way to give up & walk away from furious wife, but instead I am taking all from you here. Have a mercy for me, and forgive me. let's try to put everything behind and rebuild."

My word
"I do love you, that's why it is so painful for me. I did not chose the divorce, and trying to rebuild with you even after your unspeakable betrayal. you need to help me to trust you and forget everything."

He got up, and went to his computer, deactivated all the personal email accounts in front of me, and handed me the deactivated his secondary cell phone. He became the open book for me.

But, you don't have the right to "punish" him. You are not his parent. You have every right to be disappointed in his actions, but you do not have the right to "punish" him.

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Originally Posted by J_9

But, you don't have the right to "punish" him. You are not his parent. You have every right to be disappointed in his actions, but you do not have the right to "punish" him.

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You have a valid point. I guess I have only 2 options. Forgive him or leave him. Staying with him and torturing him is a childish act, and will bring more disasters...

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Originally Posted by pointzero2015

You have a valid point. I guess I have only 2 options. Forgive him or leave him. Staying with him and torturing him is a childish act, and will bring more disasters...

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At at the same time you have to accept your role in this. You pushed him into the arms of another woman with your controlling behavior.

Does he he forgive you for your actions and behavior?

The two of you are a couple. Decisions are to be made together. If the two of you don't agree on something, it doesn't happen. Do you get my point?

I have a feeling that you like to be in control of every situation and if you don't get your way all hell breaks loose. Is that in any way accurate?

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Originally Posted by J_9

At at the same time you have to accept your role in this. You pushed him into the arms of another woman with your controlling behavior.

Does he he forgive you for your actions and behavior?

The two of you are a couple. Decisions are to be made together. If the two of you don't agree on something, it doesn't happen. Do you get my point?

I have a feeling that you like to be in control of every situation and if you don't get your way all hell breaks loose. Is that in any way accurate?

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Yes, you are 100% accurate for all about this. He is indeed vey easy guy, and from the beginning of our relationship (total 13 years, 3 years of dating, 10 years of marriage), I had the strong voice, and he says yes to me, even when he did not happy about it. The counselor says he hold everything inside instead of expressing it, and that triggered his affair.

Yes, learned clearly my way of controlling stopped to work in the most humiliated way recently.

To answer your question, he told me he forgave me who pushed & controlled him by yelling (in front of the counselor during couple therapy session). He speaks up now. He wants us to make every single decision together. He says he needs to be the MAN in the house, and I need to be his wife.

I have not been following this back and forth 62 replies but don't you guys think it is time to put into action what ever is best for the kids and family into action? Enough of this get even stuff and so forth.

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Originally Posted by pointzero2015

He wants us to make every single decision together. He says he needs to be the MAN in the house, and I need to be his wife.

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Yes, you do need to make decisions together, that's a given.

He he might need to be the "man" of the house, but are you going to let him, or are you going to continue to boss him around and "punish" him for every action you don't approve of?

While you both need couples counseling, it is glaringly apparent that you need individual counseling to work out your own issues. Unless you can become less controlling and inconsiderate of his thoughts and feelings, I don't see a need to try to make this marriage work.