Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

Plus, if you are back in school, you can defer paying off the college loans. Yes?

---

Yes, which would help out. If my salary wasn't so pitiful (or the salaries for most professionals in this state), I'd not even consider leaving. But when a doctoral stipend pays out a hundred dollars less than I bring home working, one has to wonder how much sense it will make. Of course I'll still pay support if they do in fact stay with her, which has yet to be played out. I've no problem accepting the fact that I have changes to make, and relationships over the years can and will distort our perspectives. It is very helpful to hear that I am sounding arrogant from someone else, because that is also one of her complaints (she says I didn't used to be that way, and she missed the humble and empathetic me). However, I also feel like I was working much harder to maintain our family (both domestically and financially), and she just didn't care anymore. I'll take everyone's feedback and regardless of my marital outcome try to better myself. Sometimes relationships need to end, but it hurts like hell when you lose someone who at one time was your best friend, lover, and life partner; and she was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

She quit her job and moved in with her mother (4 hours away) while taking the three children with her... is relying completely off her mother and step-father.

---

In other words, she didn't take off to raise the kids alone in her own space, but is still relying on someone else to help. With only a h.s. diploma, her job prospects, especially in these depressed times, are not good.

Quote:

---

in a small, rural state

---

I have an Internet friend in MV, AR. He's well-educated with several master's degrees and was drawn to live in the Ozarks because of the caves and the area's beauty. The low standard of living also appealed to him because he had recently retired from a Navy career with a good pension. Despite all that, his loudest and longest-time lament is the lack of intellectual stimulation, so I understand what you are saying about that, greatbignow.

I've read through this thread several times and have kept up with new comments. It seems the biggest problem in your marriage (as it is in so many marriages!) is communication and the resulting compromise. I would love to hear your wife's side of the story and then try to find the places where the two of you could agree and then compromise over the rest.

If I were you, I would lie low regarding her but regularly send cards, notes, and letters to the kids, call them, etc. They are the victims in this whole thing. I'm hoping your wife will realize her mom and step-dad do not want to give her a handout (or do they?? ) and will pitch in as much as she can around the house. Maybe the old saw, "You can't go home again," will prove to be true, and the two of you will begin some honest communications.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

In other words, she didn't take off to raise the kids alone in her own space, but is still relying on someone else to help. With only a h.s. diploma, her job prospects, especially in these depressed times, are not good.

---

Thank you for your response. Yes, I'd like to hear her part of the story as well, because of course I know there are two sides. My mother-in-law, whom I have a good relationship with, stated that she thought it likely [my wife] would realize she has made a rash and terrible mistake in a few months. I realize my posts don't portray it, but I've loved my wife and enjoyed her company like no one else until the past six months. I just can't imagine being married to anyone else (or sleeping with anyone else), and before this I trusted her more than any other individual in my life at any time. My entire adulthood has been spent with her. I would have trusted her with any amount of money, and I still have her down as the recipient of my life insurance and retirement fund should something happen to me... I'll keep that arrangement until we officially divorce (if we actually do, God forbid). If something did happen to me right now, I'd prefer she take whatever insurance and retirement monies available to support the children anyway... where else would I put it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

she thought it likely [my wife] would realize she has made a rash and terrible mistake in a few months.

---

I'm slogging along next to your mother-in-law. Your wife is looking for value for herself, someone to appreciate her to the point where she feels young and carefree again. She wants instant gratification, she wants to be happy NOW. It's like going on a diet. No one wants to actually do all the work of eating differently and exercising, but would rather just cut to the chase and weigh less in the morning.

Would she be willing to take the Myers-Briggs and an interest test to find out who she is and what career possibilities there are for her? Most community colleges offer that sort of thing for free to any county resident.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm slogging along next to your mother-in-law. Your wife is looking for value for herself, someone to appreciate her to the point where she feels young and carefree again. She wants instant gratification, she wants to be happy NOW. It's like going on a diet. No one wants to actually do all the work of eating differently and exercising, but would rather just cut to the chase and weigh less in the morning.

Would she be willing to take the Myers-Briggs and an interest test to find out who she is and what career possibilities there are for her? Most community colleges offer that sort of thing for free to any county resident.

---

She's saying that nursing is what she'll study if she stays there and goes to school. If she's still up there by August, then she's saying it will likely be permanent. Sayings like that make me wonder if she'll eventually come back, but I have to tell you it's heart-wrenching to live here by myself and await her decision. She also tells me there is no one else, but on her Facebook profile there were some "interview" questions that she put some odd answers to... here were the questions and the board can give me some feedback.

Question #1.

Would you like to be a porn star?

(her response)
"I am with my honey, we're so hot together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Question #2.
Who do you respect?

"Heinrich Himmler and my honey."

(yes, you might think Nazi leaders are odd figures to admire... she's into German WWII history... I don't even know where to begin with that one)

Question #205.

Do you want to get married?

"Do I hate myself that much? I'm desperately trying to get out!!!!!"

So, to the poster who asked what my evidence was, I guess this is it. I almost looked at this like an ink-blot test... she put her impressions on these questions. Ok, one more thing. When I put up my profile on Facebook, it asked if I was single, married, in a relationship, etc. I put down married and it asked to whom, to which I answered my spouse's name. She blew up and asked why I did that because she knew we were still married and she felt I was trying to smother her. It was completely innocent and I had no idea the Facebook profile question would ask her for confirmation. Ok, please follow my logic here and tell me if I'm off base or what...

If that question threw her off her rocker...

She said that there is no one else at this time, and has denied any affairs. However, she stated that the interview questions were "a joke" and that she wasn't serious about any of them. I asked her who her "honey" was to which she replied, "Well, that WAS you." I'm not sure if she slipped up and accidentally responded in a way that "let the cat out" or if she is really joking but given her anger at the marriage confirmation I don't think the questions were a joke. Also, given her response to the marriage question, which was clearly what she is dealing with right now. So, that is what gives me reason to wonder... or, as C&C Music Factory once sang, "Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm...." And so, I put my question out to the board... am I being logical about this? She has since then erased all the interview questions. I called and emailed her and stated that if there was in fact someone else that I was not interested in any chance at reconciliation and we could begin divorce proceedings... after denying any affairs, she erased them. That is also where I stand. I'll take her back until she's had someone else... after that I'm not going to even try. So, I don't know what to think. It could be nothing, but I have to wonder. Honest feedback please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

am I being logical about this?

---

Nope! She's feeling her oats (read: acting like the teenager she wishes she still was). Stop it with the interrogations via email and phone. Instead whisper sweet nothings and court her. She's pushing your buttons (but don't let on you know that). If you need advice on how to be romantic, holler. We'll all help.

When you talk with her (remember, no accusations or anything negative or personally challenging), ask her what is the one thing she would love for you to change about yourself. Then let us know what she said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Nope! She's feeling her oats (read: acting like the teenager she wishes she still was). Stop it with the interrogations via email and phone. Instead whisper sweet nothings and court her. She's pushing your buttons (but don't let on you know that). If you need advice on how to be romantic, holler. We'll all help.

---

Ok, thanks. It can be so difficult for someone in this situation to accurately gauge responses, and I readily admit that deficiency. I'd love to whisper sweet nothings and court. I've been going back to the gym because after a year and a half of working in an office I neglected working out at the gym. I'm not fat by any means and still retain some definition, but not like when I did the protein shakes, creatine, and weights on a daily basis. I do want to look good for her, and it's so sad when I go to bed because even though she's gone I never roll over and take "her side." It's like I've gotten so used to her being there I still only take my half of the bed, unconsciously. That's just it, sometimes when I speak with her she'd just start talking about daily things, almost like she's talking to a friend... When I get a minute, I'm going to cut and paste an email she sent me this week... it's the first email that really details what she dislikes about me now. Good news is that they're nothing I can't change or am not willing to change. Please make no mistake, I love my wife and before things went downhill she was my best friend. I want her to be happy as well, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

even though she's gone I never roll over and take "her side." It's like I've gotten so used to her being there I still only take my half of the bed, unconsciously.

---

That's a sweet nothing. Tell her that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

When I get a minute, I'm going to cut and paste an email she sent me this week...it's the first email that really details what she dislikes about me now.

---

Cool! They might be some of the same things we've said we dislike about you. When I was in grad school, the psych profs told us that if something a client is doing annoys us, we can pretty well figure that same thing is annoying the rest of that client's world. There's even a name for it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When you talk with her (remember, no accusations or anything negative or personally challenging), ask her what is the one thing she would love for you to change about yourself. Then let us know what she said.

---

Ok, I sent that question. I also sent a cut and paste of the women & infidelity book website. She lists some of the stages and signs that women go through during their "midlife crisis" which is what I think is happening. I don't want to lose my family because of this. Here is a copy of the email she sent me, it might also offer some clues. There are a few strong statements in here, but I'm asking for honesty which is why I'm here.

Here it is.

Let me break it down for you. I "flew off at you" because you were/are ALWAYS at me. You did just grill me about the in a relationship thing on here, if you will recall. I explained it then. I checked that box because we are still married, even though you'd never know it from the way you treated me at the end. The very next day, as if it weren't enough, I received that relationship request. Yes, I may have gotten significantly irritated. You just never stop. Even now. Yes, I do get hateful and rude. Now I finally have some peace from your continual barrage. I am beginning to be happy and kindly like I was when I first met you. I have changed so much over the years. I hate who and what I have become with you. I feel horribly warped. That has slowly been changing now that I am not around the never-ending stress and tension that I felt. You are failing to understand for some reason that it was always something with you. I feel that it's totally fair and accurate to say that neither one of us was what the other wanted. Can you not see that over the years we have both changed?! Not at all on the same level or regarding the same things. All I wanted was for you to finally grow up; when you did you removed all the fun things about yourself that I liked. You became a y, hateful, anxiety-ridden old man that no one can stand to be around!! Yes, you did assume more of the domestic duties, but I wanted to do those. Not have you take them from me. Some of them were not done that well, in my opinion. I was forced to work my off and keep completely ed up hours and STILL you did nothing but and complain and tell me everything bad/unsatisfactory that I was doing!! You'd not tell me how you appreciated MY sacrifice; you'd just go on and on about how it was never enough. Don't you see, all the monitary comfort you were offering was at a terrible cost. You can't buy me off anymore. It became not worth dealing with you and listening to you complaining constantly!! You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that?! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively. I also do not want the girls to see that and think that it is a real relationship. I do not want [our son] to grow up and treat his future wife that way either. You still do not see that it was ALL about you. I can't believe that you'd just give up on the children like that. They are always yours and mine. You are just throwing them away. Nice. That's mature. You hurt them so much by not being there. They are not traumatized, hate to break it to you. They miss you, but they are doing very well. I hope that you'd not turn your back on them. It is up to you. It is not about you and I. NO ONE ever was or could replace my Daddy. He was always there for my brother and I; that is why we love and need him so much to this day. HE did not allow anyone to take his place. I would be bringing them down to you. It's not you catering to my schedule!! God, you are so immature and stubborn sometimes. It is not about how you or I feel. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN!! You don't seem to get that. You are selfishly focused totally on your own hurt. You have hurt so many people over the years, apparently you have forgotten that. You have become so arrogant and conceited. That is another thing I cannot abide. You did not used to be this way. You had a humility and empathetic way about you that used to make possible my forgiving you every time you did something totally ing moronic no matter how bad it was. You have hurt me so much over the years. You can NEVER know the pain and humiliation I have suffered because of YOU!! I hope that you are someday repaid for all the terrible things you did to me. That is how I've grown to hate you. My future plans do not include you either but for the children. When you can grow up enough to be a man like they need then contact me. Your whining is disgusting and you may do so all alone.
DANIELLE.

Maybe you should examine yourself sometime, the way you are acting is not worthy of them!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

I also sent a cut and paste of the women & infidelity book website.

---

NB.

Quote:

---

"You just never stop. Even now. Yes, I do get hateful and rude. Now I finally have some peace from your continual barrage."

---

These two statements are related.

If you send a "friendly" email in which you, at the same time, accuse your wife of infidelity--don't expect to get a friendly answer back.

I don't think she's seeing anyone; you have simply driven her away. I see someone who was desperate for some autonomy. My two cents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

NB.

These two statements are related.

If you send a "friendly" email in which you, at the same time, accuse your wife of infidelity--don't expect to get a friendly answer back.

I don't think she's seeing anyone; you have simply driven her away. I see someone who was desperate for some autonomy. My two cents.

---

Woops.

Maybe I should have rephrased how I posted that. It's about infidelity, but it also discusses why women grow dissatisfied and leave long-term relationships. I used to do quite a few drugs and drink when I was younger (10 years ago when I played heavy metal music and went around playing shows a lot). She just wanted me to grow up, but also thought I was "fun." Now that we had a family and I finished school, I grew up and got a real job... found responsibility, etc. However, I did complain a lot. I never had any fun or time for anything I wanted to do... anyway, I'm willing to give her space, and don't want her to be unhappy. I thought I'd finally became what she wanted in a dad and husband... guess I was wrong. Yes, I used to be a lot more fun. Growing older can do that to you though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

NB.

These two statements are related.

If you send a "friendly" email in which you, at the same time, accuse your wife of infidelity--don't expect to get a friendly answer back.

I don't think she's seeing anyone; you have simply driven her away. I see someone who was desperate for some autonomy. My two cents.

---

Thanks for the feedback as well; it's the only way I can improve myself and have any chance at building a relationship with her and our family again. I think for now she just needs her own space, which I have no problem doing. Maybe I should get into the doctoral program and we can see how it goes over the next few years... I don't really know what to do at this point... wish I did.

It doesn't have to! Being a dad doesn't have to mean carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders and being a grouch. There's a happy medium between all work and all play. I suspect that's what she was hoping for.

If you sent her a website about infidelity, with your history of criticizing her, she'd be forgiven for taking it as implicit criticism. She writes quite well for someone with minimal formal training.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

Now I finally have some peace from your continual barrage. I am beginning to be happy and kindly like I was when I first met you. I have changed so much over the years. I hate who and what I have become with you. I feel horribly warped. That has slowly been changing now that I am not around the never-ending stress and tension that I felt. You are failing to understand for some reason that it was always something with you... It became not worth dealing with you and listening to you complaining constantly!! You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that?! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively.

---

Bingo! We all should get an honorary Psy.D. Like I said --

Quote:

---

They might be some of the same things we've said we dislike about you. When I was in grad school, the psych profs told us that if something a client is doing annoys us, we can pretty well figure that same thing is annoying the rest of that client's world. There's even a name for it...

---

Okay, now where do you go from here? No more accusations. No more haranguing. Could you arrange your life so she could come home with the kids and start to take nursing classes? Is there a community college near where you live? She could take core courses inexpensively. They might even have a certificate program for LPN or CNA to give her some credentials and experience as she goes to school. I would think at least some RN programs offer classes as distance learning that she can do at home on her computer. What I'm trying to say is that there are all sorts of ways to slice a watermelon. Would she be able to go to school, financially and according to your ideas of things?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No more accusations. No more haranguing.

---

I agree. But it's not that easy to break a habit like that. It really takes focus, discipline, and practice, as well as commitment. It will take months of self restraint and looking on the bright side. Definitely not impossible though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Could you arrange your life so she could come home with the kids and start to take nursing classes? Is there a community college near where you live? She could take core courses inexpensively.

---

Positively makes my heart glow just thinking about it! I hope this can work out. Now I'm all ready to cheer Greatbignow on...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

I agree. But it's not that easy to break a habit like that. It really takes focus, discipline, and practice, as well as commitment. It will take months of self restraint and looking on the bright side. Definitely not impossible though.

---

But now he has US here to help him and to make him accountable. Plus, he has all that psych under his belt and should know how best to use it (on himself). He will be his own best client.

Quote:

---

Positively makes my heart glow just thinking about it! I hope this can work out. Now I'm all ready to cheer Greatbignow on...

---

Will she come back with that carrot dangling and his promise to change? We certainly could help with that part too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Will she come back with that carrot dangling and his promise to change?

---

Some of us are on the edges of our seats...

Whether she comes back or not, be a good dad and let the rest work itself out. Her email explained a lot so hope your paying attention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/amhd_i...s/viewpost.gif
I also sent a cut and paste of the women & infidelity book website.

---

The basic problem in your life is in trying to fix her and analyze her, you neglected to see yourself through realistic eyes, and fix yourself.

Quote:

---

I don't understand this... why leave a husband who cooks 5 days a week and is willing to help you make it through school? I don't think she's likely to finish college raising three kids by herself,

---

You may have thought you were doing the right thing, but you weren't, not only are you putting her down, but patronizing her also. What's worse, you were not listening, or paying attention to any of her real needs, just what YOU thought was important. That has to change, whether she will take you back or not.

Your focus should be on your children, not her, as you make some adjustments to your attitude.

I should add that most (or probably all) of us have been in your shoes at some point, realizing we want to change how we deal with people close to us...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it. I don't plan on abandoning my children, but I do want her to feel how difficult it is for single parents. Hopefully the reality will wake her up and we can try to keep our family intact.

---

I hate to bring up a comment from several pages back but this comment wreaks of selfishness. It sound as if you are, in effect, using your children to get your wife to come back to you.

QUOTING GREATBIGNOW::You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that?! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively. I also do not want the girls to see that and think that it is a real relationship. I do not want [our son] to grow up and treat his future wife that way either.
You still do not see that it was ALL about you. I can't believe that you'd just give up on the children like that. They are always yours and mine. You are just throwing them away. You hurt them so much by not being there. It is not about how you or I feel. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN!! You don't seem to get that. You are selfishly focused totally on your own hurt. You have hurt so many people over the years, apparently you have forgotten that. You have hurt me so much over the years. You can NEVER know the pain and humiliation I have suffered because of YOU!! I hope that you are someday repaid for all the terrible things you did to me. That is how I've grown to hate you. ::END QUOTE (sorry, something went wrong while quoting)


Okay, do you see key words in here? I do! I don't know what your wife is speaking of when she talks about all of the hurt that you've caused, but it was obviously very substantial! Fess up! We can't help if we don't understand. I can see a great deal of hurt coming from her words. Most people in a communicative marriage don't say things like they HATED living and wished they would "DIE!!" There was obviously some very SERIOUS issues in your marriage. She is done with you, and I can tell that!

Unless you take the focus off her and what you see wrong with HER, you will never ever get your family back together. I'm not so sure you should do that anyway, at least at this point! I hear MANY things in your wife's words. I hear FEAR, PAIN, ANGER, Despair, RESENTMENT, and DISCONECTION! These are all SYMPTOMS of the problem, not "THE PROBLEM."

You need to put your money where your mouth is. You can't change what you don't acknowledge! You need to do the leg work! Right now your main focus is getting your wife and family back. You need to be prepared for that not to happen. What your focus NEEDS to be is you, and how you ran this thing off into the ditch!

If you want to show integrity, and salvage any semblance of a relationship with your wife and children, do what you need to do. Let your wife gain back some of her self respect and dignity, support your children both financially and emotionally, no matter the price tag! Do the work you need to do, to show you are worthy of another chance. Then and only then will you have another chance at a loving relationship with your wife and children... whether that be a formidable divorce, or a reconciliation!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Bingo! We all should get an honorary Psy.D. Like I said --

Okay, now where do you go from here? No more accusations. No more haranguing. Could you arrange your life so she could come home with the kids and start to take nursing classes? Is there a community college near where you live? She could take core courses inexpensively. They might even have a certificate program for LPN or CNA to give her some credentials and experience as she goes to school. I would think at least some RN programs offer classes as distance learning that she can do at home on her computer. What I'm trying to say is that there are all sorts of ways to slice a watermelon. Would she be able to go to school, financially and according to your ideas of things?

---

Greetings,

Ok, I can go along with your recommendations. Yes, the university I work at has a nursing program that I'd definitely restructure our lives financially for her to go if she were to come back (I'd get a smaller house and take a second job). When she was here, she didn't want to attend for nursing which is why I don't understand what the sudden change is for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

It doesn't have to! Being a dad doesn't have to mean carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders and being a grouch. There's a happy medium between all work and all play. I suspect that's what she was hoping for.

If you sent her a website about infidelity, with your history of criticizing her, she'd be forgiven for taking it as implicit criticism. She writes quite well for someone with minimal formal training.

---

Well, she reads a lot and I've never said she wasn't unintelligent. It's just that from my experience with her I believe she has trouble staying on task for long term goals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Cool! They might be some of the same things we've said we dislike about you. When I was in grad school, the psych profs told us that if something a client is doing annoys us, we can pretty well figure that same thing is annoying the rest of that client's world. There's even a name for it............

---

Wasn't that transference? I think so...


Well, that's also why I'm here. I know I have defects of character like everyone else, but I'm willing to work on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by starbuck8

QUOTING GREATBIGNOW::You always tell me everything that you think I cannot do. I am SO tired of you telling me that I cannot do anything for myself!!!!! You used to tear me down so much that I really wanted to die. Do you get that??!! I used to hate living because it was all about the nothing that I could do effectively. I also do not want the girls to see that and think that it is a real relationship. I do not want [our son] to grow up and treat his future wife that way either.
You still do not see that it was ALL about you. I can't believe that you'd just give up on the children like that. They are always yours and mine. You are just throwing them away. You hurt them so much by not being there. It is not about how you or I feel. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!!!! You don't seem to get that. You are selfishly focused totally on your own hurt. You have hurt so many people over the years, apparently you have forgotten that. You have hurt me so much over the years. You can NEVER know the pain and humiliation I have suffered because of YOU!!!!! I hope that you are someday repaid for all the terrible things you did to me. That is how I've grown to hate you. ::END QUOTE (sorry, something went wrong while quoting)


Okay, do you see key words in here? I do! I don't know what your wife is speaking of when she talks about all of the hurt that you've caused, but it was obviously very substantial! Fess up! We can't help if we don't understand. I can see a great deal of hurt coming from her words. Most people in a communicative marriage don't say things like they HATED living and wished they would "DIE!!" There was obviously some very SERIOUS issues in your marriage. She is done with you, and I can tell that!

Unless you take the focus off of her and what you see wrong with HER, you will never ever get your family back together. I'm not so sure you should do that anyway, at least at this point! I hear MANY things in your wifes words. I hear FEAR, PAIN, ANGER, DISPAIR, RESENTMENT, and DISCONECTION! These are all SYMPTOMS of the problem, not "THE PROBLEM."

You need to put your money where your mouth is. You can't change what you don't acknowledge! You need to do the leg work! Right now your main focus is getting your wife and family back. You need to be prepared for that not to happen. What your focus NEEDS to be is you, and how you ran this thing off into the ditch!

If you want to show integrity, and salvage any semblance of a relationship with your wife and children, do what you need to do. Let your wife gain back some of her self respect and dignity, support your children both financially and emotionally, no matter the price tag! Do the work you need to do, to show you are worthy of another chance. Then and only then will you have another chance at a loving relationship with your wife and children...whether that be a formidable divorce, or a reconciliation!

---

Ok, a little bio on the past. I did drugs and drank alcohol when I first met my wife (I was playing drums in a heavy-metal band), and she did recreationally but I ended up with a problem. Earlier on in our marriage I would stay gone for days, particularly when the first child came along; I wasn't ready for the commitment of children OR marriage, but she wanted to marry and I did love her so I went along with it. After working in a factory for five years and trying to attend college part-time, I finally quit because I was completely burned out on the manual labor and at 23 I felt like I was 43 (repetitive motions). For a few years it was difficult financially, far more difficult than now because of the job market and my lack of education. The only experience I had was in factory work. So, I started school and obtained a job with a pharmacy. Here's where it gets dicey... you can imagine that someone with a drug problem should probably not work at a pharmacy. I started stealing pills and selling them for a hefty profit to other college students. After a year, I got caught and spent 7 months in a prison "boot camp" program... back up a bit... when I was 14 I got in trouble with some Xanax pills and my father put me in rehab for almost 2 years. It was called "Second Chance" in Memphis, TN and I have to say it saved my life and gave me the ability to tackle the kind of changes that needed to be made both then and now. Ruthless honesty, and learning how to deal with a horrid drug problem (even though I screwed up later, it's the only way I have been able to get where I am now instead of killing myself somehow). Ok, fast forward. I initially fled the state to escape prosecution... it was relatively easy because I worked for a cable TV company that moved to Oregon (and it paid a grand a week... more than I make now). Well, once I got up there the company went bankcrupt and I came back to face my charges (possession of the pills, and theft of the pills; would you believe having Oxycontin is a class Y felony.. just like assault or first-degree murder? That's another issue though... ). Ok, so I go through this "boot camp" program and come out 7 months later in awesome physical shape and ready to work on myself and my family. To her credit, my wife waited patiently and tells me to this day that I was far more difficult on her and the children than it was on me... I'm not sure about that one, and if you want to read about the Arkansas prison system read "Accomplices to the Crime." It has a prison system based on 17th century slavery... you work in the cotton fields... anyway, enough of that. In some ways I think that experience both ruined me and made me stronger. It's difficult for me to be happy anymore, and I feel a certain sense of dread and tension that wasn't there before... maybe that's some of the "lost youth & vitality" she speaks of. That's why I sought counseling during my graduate degree... it was so difficult to both forgive myself and come to grips with what had happened.

Ok, after release I obtained employment with an alcohol and drug abuse treatment center while attending my undergraduate full time. I'd like to think I made a difference in the lives of some of my clients. After my undergrad, I went to grad school on a full scholarship and worked for yet another counseling center for D&A until I completed my degree.

Since 2002 I've not had any drugs or alcohol, and I've been a committed family man. I felt like I'd hurt both my wife and children so much and I just wanted to make it up to them both financially and emotionally. I was so sorry for the way I had lived... drug addiction unfortunately runs in families as well... I came by it honestly (my great-grandfather was a morphine addict, my mother on heroine for years, and a slew of alcoholics too numerous to list, but please don't take this as my blaming others for my problem. I did it, but I've also been recovering and would like to think I'm an example of what someone can do even if they screw up and stay addicted for years). One other thing, in 2006 we had a home invasion. A man who would later be convicted for rape and numerous other attempted rapes came into our home near Christmas that year. He came in the door (which was unlocked because I had just come home) with a ski mask and a knife... looked at my wife's purse, which was near the door and had money sticking out of it, but he wasn't interested in her purse... he was interested in her. I was behind him and he didn't see me coming... I also went to the gym almost every day back then, and so I grabbed him and took the knife away from him. I can tell you I feared for my life, but the thought of someone trying to assault my wife and family that way, along with the instinctual drive to protect one's family (we see the same thing in primates whenever a predator is around... the females grab the children and run for cover, while the males prepare to fight whatever it is). He would have had to kill me before getting to her or our children... anyway, for months afterwards I wouldn't leave the house for anything but important functions, and I stopped going to the gym because I always went in the evening and I just have a fear now that it could happen again... I just so happened to be home that night because classes were out and I didn't want to go right then. Part of why I stay at home with my family all the time now... I still hate it when people come to the door as well. I also sought counseling for that issue at the same time I went for the other issue.

During my graduate studies, I still made time for my wife and I to have "alone" time. I took her to a popular resort town nearby for her birthday and our anniversary, and we went out to eat by ourselves once a week. Amazing how we remember specific events with our spouses... there are some private moments I'll never forget.

Once I graduated, we decided (or, I think we decided together) to take the job offer and moved four hours away. Over the past 1 1/2 years we've taken some nice vacations (went to Disney Land, Sea World, and visited with my grandmother in southern California last year; we also went to D.C. for the 4th of July, which they had never done before... as a child I lived near D.C. and the 4th was something to remember; I'd highly recommend it for your family sometime), but mainly worked. We realized quite quickly that my salary would not suffice and so my wife took employment with a local retailer. The goal was to pay down our debts and buy the house I'm still in. She loved this house, and I wanted her to be happy and finally have a place to call home that was HERS (ours, of course). Over the past year, we've been working towards our financial goals, but she also says I've become grouchy and unpleasant to be around. It's financial stress, and it just ticks me off that I couldn't support my family the way I felt they should be cared for... after all the sacrifice (from all of us), I still qualified for food stamps on my salary! So, I started applying to jobs in California because the salary is usually 2-3 times what they pay here. I should also add that my record has made it difficult to find employment, and I feel blessed to have found the job I have. I've applied for a pardon from the governor, because since that time I've made a complete change and most people wouldn't recognize me anymore... in fact, I had some clients at the rehab (who I used to know when I was a drunk) who didn't recognize me while I was in grad school... they couldn't believe it was me. Hopefully that will underscore the kinds of changes I've made, but also show the board how we went from then to now. I know I hurt my wife over the years, and I've spent the last 7 years trying to make up for it but apparently I've also become difficult to deal with and arrogant at times. It's just that I usually feel like a complete loser for what I did years ago, and it's frustrating that my family has to suffer because of it still. However, I do expect to get the pardon. Few from my background make the changes I have and end up as professionals... I'm definitely a statistical anomaly but it's also why I do think I have what it takes to change myself. I've already overcome something that kills 90% of its victims (I forget who did the study). Anyway, I've spilled my guts, but in the hopes that some good can come of this. I want my family to be together, happy, and healthy. I love my wife and she's been a supportive and wonderful partner over the years. I WANTED to help her finish school, no matter how arrogant I might have sounded. All the feedback and help has been appreciated, and of course I hope this can come to a hopeful conclusion but regardless, maybe I can at least learn for the future.

I have to leave at 3:45 a.m. to take a group of my students to D.C. for the swearing-in of our president, and I won't be back until late Thursday. Please don't think I'm ignoring anyone, but I'll be out for a few days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

When she was here, she didn't want to attend for nursing which is why I don't understand what the sudden change is for.

---

Maybe she's had time to think about it. Maybe it's become her idea now instead of yours. (Remember, she wants to be her own person... )

Health care is booming. All of us Baby Boomers are getting old and falling apart -- and there are LOTS of us, plus many of our parents are still alive too. If she got an RN degree, she could name her price and her job -- so many options publicly or privately, in a hospital or a doctor's office or a fitness center or in a school. And the money would be good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Maybe she's had time to think about it. Maybe it's become her idea now instead of yours. (Remember, she wants to be her own person.......)

---

This was exactly what I thought. It needs to be her plan, not something she's carrying out under orders or never doing "right" or "good enough"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

This was exactly what I thought. It needs to be her plan, not something she's carrying out under orders or never doing "right" or "good enough"

---

Gotcha. Oh, here is an answer to the question of "What would you change?"

I would love to change the relentless way that you are stubborn and never listen. Hope that helps.

Here is also a copy of the email I sent her.

Hi,

I think it was more how I felt than you. I felt fat and unattractive, but I'm trying to do better. I'm just trying to tell you what was wrong with me. It wasn't you.

Ok, also, sorry to badger everyone and I won't do it anymore. Yes, I've felt a wide-range of emotions about this, from hurt to rage and it comes out in my emails and phone calls. I'm normally a rational and logical individual (to a fault), but these are difficult times. I do apologize for it, and hope that at some point you can forgive me for everything I've done to hurt you. Also, please understand that I'm not saying that in hopes you'd come back, which I realize probably isn't going to happen. I'll work on trying to be a bit more sane, but please understand that this is extremely difficult for me; please be gentle. I've been trying to look at what I did wrong, and yes I do see there was quite a bit that could have been done better. There WERE red flags all over the place, but I just didn't acknowledge them.

I haven't had any cheesecake in a while. Nothing but Clif Bars until the evening, when I have a small dinner. I know I used to be somewhat attractive and in shape, and that I've let myself go over the past year. On another note, Texas A&M has my application now, and I'm likely going to go there and study for my Ph.D. in child psychology; my goal is to research autism and asperger's interventions in the classroom. Maybe some good can come of it for [our son], because I truly feel like the current ones are "shots in the dark" and that the disorder is not fully understood.

On the W-4, I already have your last pay stub but I'm still waiting for my 1099 from Scottrade. I'll try to take care of our debts as best I can. I found a three-bedroom house that is for $450 and is near the university so when the kids come to visit I'll have room for them; the owner said I wouldn't have to put down a deposit either since I work at Henderson (small towns sometimes have their benefits, don't they?). [Wife's name], I honestly wish you well and hope you are happy and successful. Please believe me that I never wanted you to be miserable, and I am truly sorry for anything I've done that contributed to that. I'm doing the best I can to work on myself as well, because I don't want to be unhappy either. Whether this is truly the end of us or not, I need to change these things. I do have some positive qualities, I just need to focus more on them and try not to be so dissatisfied with everything. Sometimes I wonder if coming here was a mistake for me because I simply don't make enough money here; hence, my application to finish a doctorate and probably leave Arkansas for a better job.

You were my best friend and lover, and I couldn't have asked for a more loyal and committed spouse; this is not your fault and I do acknowledge that. The world is so full of fair-weather friends and summer-soldiers, that I do feel fortunate to have had a spouse who was as committed and forgiving as you were; you stuck it out when most wouldn't and I regret not seeing the red flags before this happened. And yes, it is true that at night I've noticed how I never roll over into your space. I guess that over the years' I've become so used to having you in bed with me at night that I still unconciously do that. I would not have had the successes that I've had without you having been there to support me; for that, I will always love and respect you. I'm glad my babies were made with you; they're intelligent and beautiful because of it (but I didn't detract from that either :-). I wish you could attend school here and let me help you, because you deserve to go and I hope you will. Please know that you're always welcome to come back home, and if you did we'd live in a smaller, cheaper house and YOU would get to attend school. I'd work two jobs and let you go because you do deserve it. Yes, I've accepted that you're gone but do hope that at some point in the future I might change enough to show you I'm worth another chance. Anyway, that's enough for now. I love you and miss you and the children. As soon as I get a minute and a stable place I'll visit with them and let you know; please don't take that as my not wanting them and I'll keep in touch. Please tell the children that I love them and miss them and that Daddy will see them as soon as possible.

Aaron

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by asking

I agree. But it's not that easy to break a habit like that. It really takes focus, discipline, and practice, as well as commitment. It will take months of self restraint and looking on the bright side. Definitely not impossible though.



Positively makes my heart glow just thinking about it! I hope this can work out. Now I'm all ready to cheer Greatbignow on...

---

No, it's not easy but I've turned around a life marred by drugs, alcohol, and criminal activity. If I can do that and come out a better person, I can definitely treat my wife with respect, love, and empathy while trying to focus on what is good in life. I've seen some of the worst in people and been in some unbelievable situations (mostly of my own making); having a family and working isn't that bad.

Wow, you've had quite the colorful life! This does give us a little more insight into how you've gotten to where you are now. When I said "fess up," you really did! Have you ever thought of sharing your experiences and writing a book, or submitting your story to a magazine, to supplement your income?

I do have to applaud you for the steps you've taken to turn your life around. Some of them mandatory, and some by your own hard work, diligence and perserverance. Also I must give you kudos for sticking around and taking our advice in stride. Many would have gotten angry with us at this point and told us to shove our advice. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to attend President elect Obama's inauguration ceremony. I'm sure you will hear some very encouraging words, that could, in part, help you with learning how to gain peace in your own life, and maybe in the relationship you are presently having with your wife. Use this opportunity to teach you how you can better work with your love for your wife and children. Your way isn't working, and I'm sure if you listen closely, you will find some wise words that will help you to see more clearly, and focus on what is important and what is not. Of course this doesn't mean that it will change how your wife is feeling, but it may change the way you handle things on a day to day basis, with your wife and kids, and the way you see things in general.

You have proven in the past that you can pull yourself up when given no other choice. It's once again time to do this again. Try and think of this as marriage "boot camp!" Just know that this time you may not be able to be in control of the outcome. But, you can certainly be pro-active in the process.

Your wife may have just had enough, and will never change her mind. You have to be prepared for that. The only thing you are in control of is you! Maybe if she sees actions backing your words, and sees a little bit of the man she fell in love with, she might just come around. But the ball is in your court now! You can choose to punish her, accuse her, be vindictive, use the kids as weapons, etc. or you can show her that regardless of her decision, you are going to be the best Daddy, and the best person you can be. If you play your cards right, and lighten up a bit, she just might take notice.

Another thing you must not do, is harass or barrage her with details of the steps you have taken to change. You can tell her that you are working on it for the sake of your family, but leave it at that. In other words, don't start with the arrogance thing again. Don't say I've done this, but what have YOU done. Don't give her the whole "I've been through this and done that," and what have YOU done? Boost her up instead of bringing her down.

Offer to do anything you can do, within reason, to put her through nursing school. As Wondergirl and Asking have said, there are many opportunities in the Health Care field. Tell her you will do your best to support her efforts, so you can assure the welfare of your children and your future. The children are not allowed to be used as pawns. They will resent you later in life if you do that. Instead they should be treated how you would want to be. No more calling it "babysitting." It doesn't matter what she is doing. These are your children!

You gone through a lot and changed the way you do things. You can change this around too. The bottom line is, you can only control how you choose to act. You can't control how she chooses to live her life. It just doesn't work that way.

I was posting while you were Aaron. That was a very heartfelt letter to your wife. Maybe she will read it a few times and take it in the manner it was meant to be read.

Well, I'm finally back. Thank you for your responses and support, and I have to say I'm surprised that this online forum has been of so much benefit. Yes, I've learned that accountability and feedback can be painfully honest at times, but my two years in treatment was a constant barrage of that kind of living and group therapy. It made what I'm doing now possible. Yes, I've actually thought about writing of my exerience, especially given the historical nature of Arkansas' prisons. Some of it was absolutely horrid, while other parts were humorous beyond belief. Maybe I could make it onto Oprah except I wouldn't have to lie about my experiences like that other guy did to simply sell books. I need to start writing down some of these notes before I forget them.

Obama's inauguration was a historic event. While I did not vote for him, and am cautiously skeptical of his policy views, there was an air of hope and confidence that I haven't seen or felt in a long time. My students have an expanded view of the world, and I sincerely hope that they come back with a new resolve for their own futures.

Ok, back to my reason for being here. I spoke with my wife today for about an hour. I told her that I loved her sincerely, and that I never wanted her to be unhappy. Also, I informed her that I had been off my depression medication for about six months because we couldn't afford it and I didn't want to bother them with it. She said, "Oh, I wish I would have known that." Not quite sure what to make of that. She agreed and said that it was sad to end a 13 year relationship with a family, and I told her that if she wanted to come home at some point I'd agree to let her stay at home and attend school since we'd have a smaller, cheaper house. To that she responded that the offer was appreciated, but that at this point she feels the separation will likely be permanent. I didn't badger or even press any hard questions, I told her I wanted her to be successful, that I missed her terribly (though not fighting with her), and that I wish we would have had more open communication regarding our issues. She responded yes, but that she felt to resentful and angry towards me that she wasn't sure anything I could have done would have made a difference. She said there's nothing left to work on anymore. I told her that I respect how she feels, and that she's always displayed good judgement but that her own father was separated for 5 years from his wife of 10 years, and that some friends of ours even remarried after divorcing. She replied that she's aware things like that do occur, but that at this point she just doesn't see it happening. She is however, going to wait for the divorce, though she doesn't really consider this a separation now. She explained that she is finally beginning to be happy again and doesn't feel like she's under constant stress from me and our situation. On a positive note, when she comes down next weekend she agreed to have lunch with me (and without any real reason we should do so, not sure what to make of it and I'm just going to try and enjoy her company; I miss her terribly and long to shower her with hugs, kisses, and love but it probably won't help to try and go that far; I just want to show her that I respect and love her and hopefully enjoy each other's company).

She also said that if she were me she'd get a doctorate. I like my current job but it just doesn't pay enough and I feel like it's a dead-end professional position. What I did like about this conversation is that it seemed to be constructive, no matter that she said this is likely permanent. When I told her in a heartfelt manner how much I loved her and that she had been my best friend, and that pretty much every memory I've had of my adulthood included her, she almost sounded regretful, and said that she was sorry it turned out this way; she didn't want this either. So, she's coming down next week and her dad will keep the kids because I just don't have the cash to feed them or do anything with them (my water was turned off this morning and I took a sponge bath with the drippings that were still in my hot water heater... I'm serious when I say our finances have been ruined due to this). If the lunch goes well, I might ask if she wants to go out and see a movie or maybe even go to the casino for a few hands of blackjack. The fact that she's going to lunch with me looks to be a good sign, in my opinion. What do you think? Thanks for all the feedback, and I appreciate the honesty.

Okay, I live in the 50th poorest state and am affilitated with an university. You are very condescending about her and her families education. I also bet you surround yourself with those you feel worthy to be in your company... other scholars and professionals.

With that, she may not feel she can contribute or has any self worth in your eyes. She may just want to find someone who can accept her for all her faults and lack of stick to it ness. That could be you if...

This is complicated, involved, and I think you are self aware and really trying. I just thought I would point this out.

I do wish you the best and am glad you have stuck around through all the slinging. Everyone is on yourside, hoping to help you pull this together, and there is plenty of fault on both sides I am sure.

Thanks for the feedback; I'm going to go to lunch with her next weekend and see how it goes.

One last thing, you can suspend your student loan payments for up to a year, you can try to break your lease and move somewhere cheaper, and you can enter a debt management program which will lower you CC bills to what you can afford.

Been where you are financially. This may or may not help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sylvan_1998

One last thing, you can suspend your student loan payments for up to a year, you can try to break your lease and move somewhere cheaper, and you can enter a debt management program which will lower you CC bills to what you can afford.

Been where you are financially. This may or may not help.

---

I may have to do that, or I'm considering going into a doctoral program so that they'd be deferred again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by starbuck8

I was posting while you were Aaron. That was a very heartfelt letter to your wife. Maybe she will read it a few times and take it in the manner it was meant to be read.

---

One other thing. I've been considering applying to a doctoral program at my old university (University of Arkansas). I'd be close to my children (close enough for joint custody, if this does end in divorce), I could help her with them (help her go to school), and it would also increase the possibility of a reconciliation because I'd be closer to her (I'd have to be careful though because I could also try to smother her since I miss and love her/them so much). What does the board think about this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by greatbignow

One other thing. I've been considering applying to a doctoral program at my old university (University of Arkansas). I'd be close to my children (close enough for joint custody, if this does end in divorce), I could help her with them (help her go to school), and it would also increase the possibility of a reconciliation because I'd be closer to her (I'd have to be careful though because I could also try to smother her since I miss and love her/them so much). What does the board think about this?

---

You've come a long way since your first post on this board. You are much more introspective and also very aware of what you could do wrong to mess up the whole thing. You are now looking outside of yourself and have become much more empathetic of your wife. I like the idea of your returning to school at your old university. You'd be back in what is familiar to you, and, as you said, you'd be close to your family again. And yes, you would have to be very, very careful in what you say to your wife and how you act.

But guess what! You now have a support group and an Internet family who are in your corner! We will tell it like it is and offer suggestions for improvement. Obama says "Yes, we can." Pick up a hint from that and apply that slogan to yourself and to your own situation. (And, by the way, my younger son was able to defer his government loans from his undergrad days by staying in school. He earned three company-paid master's degrees over five years and now has a great job that enables him to pay monthly on loans.)

We're here for you! Please let us know how that lunch goes. (We know you will be at your best!! )