Ask Me Help Desk - Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Well, to me...Gay marriage is just fine.

As far as MY interpretation of the Bible goes: If homosexuality is a sin, then incest is okay (Lot and his daughters) and so is tricking your brother out of his inheritance (Jacob and Esau). It's also a sin to masturbate (isn't someone struck down for spilling his seed on the ground?) and everyone should have to marry their widowed in-laws.

If you try to tell me that THOSE are just cultural differences of the times--well, I'm gonna tell you that being gay is too. The reason (from MY interpretation) that being gay was bad is that god only wanted sex for children. Well...if you're not trying to have kids, then, you shouldn't be having sex! (by those standards).

Love is love. There is so much hate in this world already, why are we NOT celebrating love wherever it is found?

Well... lets see... firstly we must understand that even the righteous men of the Bible fell, and also that "incest" at one point wasn't a sin. Actually it was necessary consdering everything began with one man and one woman.
The Bible mentions masturbation as a shameful act, which I personally wouldn't want to displease God, but that's you. However, if you need stimulation consisting of lust, any type, yeah that's sin.
As far as widowed in laws, there were 4 different types of convenants, 3 of which have been fulfilled, blood, israeli, moral and dietary. All of which but the moral have been fulfilled. The marrying widows law pertained to the israelites.
The moral laws, such as the ten commandments and everything mentioned as abomination and such, still stand, and they stand firm.
~Ash

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

everything mentioned as abomination and such, still stand, and they stand firm.

So we are to abide by them all?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So we are to abide by them all?

What do you think?

I asked first.

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

What do you think?

I think that while some of the IDEAS in the Bible are great---unless you live by ALL of them, then don't start quoting just one or two of them to me.

I also think that this is exactly the reason I'm NOT Christian. I don't HAVE to call it a sin, then. And... marriage is a valid Wiccan tradition too--and most Wiccans don't have a problem with same sex couples. So--let the same-sex couples get married in the Wiccan faith, and there's no problem, then, right? I mean, it's not a CHRISTIAN marriage, it's a WICCAN marriage.

I just hate the fact that people are so dead set against the use of the word "marriage". Want to call it by the Sanskrit name for marriage, then? Or the Roman word? I don't care!

I agree with what someone else said earlier--gay couples aren't destroying the "sanctity" of marriage--straight couples are doing a great job of it themselves, with the high divorce rate.

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Originally Posted by mjl

Are you for or against Gay Marriage?

All for it! Gay people are human just like the rest of us.

I believe you can't help who you fall in love with

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Originally Posted by starfirefly

i believe you can't help who you fall in love with

Gay or straight, this is a dangerous belief.

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Originally Posted by starfirefly

i believe you can't help who you fall in love with

You do have choices though, and you can help what you do, about who you love. Its called dealing with reality.

I would say that there are 3 types of people that are affiliated with the gay marriage debate:

1st type: is the kind of person who is against it because A.) They are extremely religious and believe that it is immoral and against God's wishes or B.) They have a vengeance on someone who affected them in that way (ie:their parenter left them for the opposite sex, their daughter or son became gay etc.)

2nd type: is the kind of person who really doesn't give a crap about what someone else does with their life as long as it doesn't involve them

3rd type: is the kind of person who is all for it because A.) They are gay B.) They have a daughter/son or realitive who is gay C.) They are neither gay nor bi but feel strongly for a free will country

This debate is depended on the majority beliefs. Can you guess which one it is? And tell me, which kind of person are you?

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Originally Posted by alyssarox32

And tell me, which kind of person are you?

The kind who doesn't divide the world into two or more kinds of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alyssarox32

This debate is depended on the majority beliefs. Can you guess which one it is? And tell me, which kind of person are you?

Hello alyssarox:

Actually what the majority believes has NOTHING to do with it. It's what the Constitution says that matters.

Let's see. I'm not against it. I don't care how people live. I don't care about people's free will. I Do, however, give a crap about peoples rights. I'm not gay.

I never have fit anybody's mold….. S'fine with me.

excon

PS> The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution says that we ALL are afforded "equal protection under the law".

How can it be equal when heterosexual couples get government benefits, that homosexual ones don't?

One could argue a topic like this for years and years.

I personally am against same sex marriage. I am Catholic and do believe it to be a sin, however, I come to the conclusion not based solely on what the Bible or other religious works say about it.

I just think it is an un-natural thing,homosexuality in general. I mean the human body was made for specific reasons and man figured outlong ago that if you put this there it feels good and sometimes a small little person comes out in te near future. It makes sense, putting something where it does not belong is un-natural. The penetration of the tool into a place that is not intended for it to go is again, un-natural. Viewing it like this makes sense to me and it is consistent with religious teachings, I believe the Bible refers to the act as an abomination and the Koran mentions it being un-natural as well.

I take no issue with those who are gay, I sin too and so my sins of being straight may be even or even more serious than that of a gay person, so I have no issue with the individuals themselves. However, if any one agrees that it is un-natural human behaviour, it would stand to reason that one would not support marriages and openly flaunting exhibits from the gay population. My city has a HUGE parade in the summer and I don't support it being so "out in public" because I do believe it is a sin.

Who says I was "dividing" the world into kinds of people? I was talking about the issue of gay marriage not dividing everybody whatever that means. Get your facts right ordinaryguy!

Yea, and even the people who took part in the constitution had opinions. It was based on their opinions (or beliefs) and the majority opinion won. Good thought about the 14th amendment though. Maybe you should look into that and when you're deciding who is president, maybe you should consider that factor.

I am for it. As long as they keep to there selves and I don’t mean socializing with other people I mean showing affection to one another in public. All the power to them. WOOT :)

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Originally Posted by starfirefly

i believe you can't help who you fall in love with

I agree you can't help who you fall in love with either a man or a woman when you fall in love it just happens and you can't stop who you fall in love with

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Originally Posted by alyssarox32

Who says I was "dividing" the world into kinds of people? I was talking about the issue of gay marriage not dividing everybody whatever that means. Get your facts right ordinaryguy!

I didn't say anything about you. You asked what kind of person I was, and I answered the question.

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Originally Posted by Questionshelp

I am for it. As long as they keep to there selves and I don't mean socializing with other people I mean showing affection to one another in public. All the power to them. WOOT :)

So do you get offended when a hetero couple show affection in public?

Questionshelp:
Obviously not all the power to them, because you have some sort of problem with them showing affection in public. Hey, maybe they think it it totally revolting when you show affection in public.

Something a lot of people don't take into account also, is that if gay marriage was permitted then those peoples, like ministry would legally be obligated to perform the ceremony... Either way you look at it a persons 'rights' are going to be violated... although I agree with BMI that it is indeed sin.

Committing adultry is sin, stealing is sin, murder is sin, loveing someone is not

Hello L:

Never heard of a civil ceremony, huh? I didn't think so.

excon

Leid... where is a law that says that a minister has to perform a gay persons ceremony. I can't believe that.. Why couldn't they just say no.

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Originally Posted by bushg

So do you get offended when a hetero couple show affection in public?

I don't, not at all, if a heterosexual couple is married and in love, go for it. I don't want to see a gay couple together, as much as I don't want to hear the music played in the bistro, or the TV they subject you to in the doctors offices or anything else. Its just something we have to ignore on a personal basis and stand up for when you're opinion will actually get somewhere.
Christians mix up love to be tolerance all too often. Its kind of pointless for me to even be on this site, nothing gets across like this anyway... blah.

So it is OK to kiss in public and hold hands only if your married but if anyone else does it it is wrong?
For myself I don't care who holds hands or gives a quick peck... but I don't want to see anyone swallowing tongues or feeling anyone else up. I think there is a time and place for everything, whether you are a christian or not.

All too frequently, the "rules" are an intellectual guilt factory. To accept your fellow man as yourself, it may be necessary to leave the church and forget the dogma. To become closer to God and the homosexual sitting next to you try thinking for yourself. Take responsibility for your own decisions, quit falling back on what has been written and taught, in words. Actions, including religious wars speak louder.

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Originally Posted by bushg

Leid...where is a law that says that a minister has to perform a gay persons ceremony. I can't believe that..Why couldn't they just say no.

Anyone with a license to authenticate any legal document is obligated to do so, and to deny is considered prejudice, like if a minister refused to marry a black couple, only difference, before someone jumps on that one, is that there's nothing wrong with your race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alyssarox32

Commiting adultry is sin, stealing is sin, murder is sin, loveing someone is not

Of course not, its actually a commandment TO love... but what you're talking about isn't love, its motivated by selfish desire/lust.
What do you think about NAMBLA? North American Man Boy Love Association. Is that okay? I mean, everyone is entitled to 'love' right? Because that is the type of love you're referring to, a sexual, intimate love, naturally created to be shared by a one man, and one woman.
Ive known a 14 year old who dated a 19 year old, terrible I know, but a good example. The 14 year old thought through and through that she was completely in love with the grown man, and as did he, but they were involved in a relationship that wasn't appropriate, even to sexuality.
I had to use that because I could see someone using the argument that "well in NAMBLA the little boys dont have a choice, or dont love back"
But the catch is this, that the 14 year old didn't understand sincere and true love, and it turned into a sick, and inappropriate relationship that should not have ever been.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

Anyone with a liscense to authenticate any legal document is obligated to do so, and to deny is considered prejudice, like if a minister refused to marry a black couple, only difference, before someone jumps on that one, is that theres nothing wrong with your race.

Actually I would side with bushg on this one. I am for gay marriage but the church should not be forced to do it since it is against their doctrine. A civil ceremony should suffice... for anyone really.

I really don't think a gay couple would want their special day marred by someone that found their love to be replusive.
Anyway that is a pretty lame excuse for not legalizing it.
Look at birth control... some people don't believe in it. Look at mixed/interracial marriage... get my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushg

I really don't think a gay couple would want their special day marred by someone that found their love to be replusive.
Anyway that is a pretty lame excuse for not legalizing it.
Look at birth control...some people don't believe in it. Look at mixed/interracial marriage...get my point.

On a normal basis no, but there are plenty out there who A. want to make a point and would look for the excuse to make someone definitely against it have to do so, or B. Plenty out there looking for some extra spending cash, how easy! Just sue a minister!

I don't see why anyone would be against it. It is an individuals decision to marry someone they are in love with, sex should have nothing to do with that. And why shouldn't it be legal? I would like someone to give me one good educated, logical reason why a person cannot be gay and marry someone of the same sex. For one, it does not effect anyone else, number two, it is nobody's business who we marry. It's the same as saying you can't marry someone because they are too short or too ugly! If we love that person it doesn't matter, its our life right? I believe people who don't accept it are uneducated and close-mined, (close-mindedness is usually from being ignorant about something). Its kind of like racism in a different form. And its not right! Gay people are people too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjl

Are you for or against Gay Marriage?

Stonwilder's story is sad, and I agree there should be the same legal protection for all couples.

Just asking, if a house is in joint names can it sill be taken away by the deceased's family?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMI

One could argue a topic like this for years and years.

I personally am against same sex marriage. I am Catholic and do beleive it to be a sin, however, I come to the conclusion not based soley on what the Bible or other religious works say about it.

I just think it is an un-natural thing,homosexuality in general. I mean the human body was made for specific reasons and man figured outlong ago that if you put this there it feels good and sometimes a small little person comes out in te near future. It makes sense, putting something where it does not belong is un-natural. The penetration of the tool into a place that is not intended for it to go is again, un-natural. Viewing it like this makes sense to me and it is consistent with religious teachings, I beleive the Bible refers to the act as an abomination and the Koran mentions it being un-natural as well.

I take no issue with those who are gay, I sin too and so my sins of being straight may be even or even more serious than that of a gay person, so i have no issue with the individuals themselves. However, if any one agrees that it is un-natural human behaviour, it would stand to reason that one would not support marriages and openly flaunting exhibits from the gay population. My city has a HUGE parade in the summer and I don't support it being so "out in public" because I do beleive it is a sin.

Yes and I can say Im Buddhist or Muslim. I don't like it when people use religion as an excuse for being rude and ignorant towards specific types of people. I am atheist and I am just as much as a person as you. Im not gay but that doesn't matter. It may be sinning in your eyes but you obviously don't look beyond the sexual part, which I believed Christians were souposed to do? You cannot judge anything with a full compassionate heart because you allow your religion to control your morals with a set of guidelines, one being against gays? God is souposed to love all his children right? A person cannot control their feelings of love towards someone else, same sex or not. If we they never souposed to feel that way, God would've created them so it would never happen right? Please answer that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

I think that while some of the IDEAS in the Bible are great---unless you live by ALL of them, then don't start quoting just one or two of them to me.

I also think that this is exactly the reason I'm NOT Christian. I don't HAVE to call it a sin, then. And...marriage is a valid Wiccan tradition too--and most Wiccans don't have a problem with same sex couples. So--let the same-sex couples get married in the Wiccan faith, and there's no problem, then, right? I mean, it's not a CHRISTIAN marriage, it's a WICCAN marriage.

I just hate the fact that people are so dead set against the use of the word "marriage". Want to call it by the Sanskrit name for marriage, then? or the Roman word? I don't care!

I agree with what someone else said earlier--gay couples aren't destroying the "sanctity" of marriage--straight couples are doign a great job of it themselves, with the high divorce rate.

I couldn't agree more. Sex has nothing to do with this matter. Getting a divorce is a sin too probably, everything is a sin.

I'm completely for gay marriage.

First of all, marriage isn't about religion. And until a few hundred years ago, a bond between a man and a woman didn't involve any ceremony at all (except for the wealthiest families). Modern marriage ceremonies exist for the purpose of creating a legal bond that protects the rights of 2 people and their union, as well as any children that might be born as a result. The ceremony that goes with it can be for religious purposes or just as a celebration of love, but the ceremony itself is unnecessary.
If a church doesn't want to recognise gay union, that's fine. That church is perfectly entitled to refuse gay couples to get married according to their doctrine... however, this should not have any impact whatsoever on the couples right for legal recognition. If they're not married under God (whatever god you happen to believe in) there's no offence given to those of the faith... so what's the problem? You can't just say "it's wrong". And there's no point arguing that it's a sin against God if the marriage isn't a religious one.

Also, in the western world the divorce rate is approximately 50% of marriages, so it's not as if the sanctity of marriage is exactly going to be under threat at all.

The gay couples I know, and have been living together for a long time, have legal documents, and wills to protect their partners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushg

So do you get offended when a hetero couple show affection in public?

No but I sure would like for it to be discreet.

If someone is having a make-out session on a public bench - it isn't appropriate. Gay, straight - whatever. There is a time and place for everything.
I don't want to see ANYBODY get their groove on in public.
Saying that - a simple kiss or hug is different. I kiss my husband in public. I don't care if a gay couple do the same.
It is when it is taken to the next level that it bothers me. But, again, I am equally "offended" by gay OR straight.