MAN! You aren't getting it. No, who would be OK with the way she acts? I and no one said it was OK.

You act like we are supposed to reach through the internet and rake her over the coals and get her to change her ways. She isn't even here.

You start not wanting to lose her, but then complain about how she acts unfairly and not like a wife and mother, and THEN whine about what you miss, the past that cannot ever come back. You can't have all 3. You accept her the way she is, OR get help together, OR go along with the divorce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

You are talking about your hopes and dreams, what was, not what is.

You need to look at what is.

You asked the question but have shrugged off "our" advice. If you want to continue this way, continue on the path you're on.

If you don't, follow "our" advice.

---

I am just trying to understand your advice. It just seems to go against what I have read elsewhere. My understanding of your advice is to do to her what she does to me?
Here about a month ago I had a board meeting to go to at night. She went bowling with some friends. My meeting got over about 9:30, so I thought I would stop by the bowling alley to see what was going on. Shortly after I arrived she told me I need to leave and go home. To which I asked why? She replied that she had told the babysitter that I would be home by 10 to relieve her. I didn't argue with her. I left feeling rather confused and hurt. My wife didn't come home till 3am that morning again. When I asked her about it the next morning she just simply said that someone had to relieve the babysitter.
How would you suggest I should have played that one?

Would you point out where I said to do to her what she's doing to you?

You can't seem to stay on track or understand what is being said to you. I don't understand your confusion.

What would I do? I would stop remembering when and do something - now. I'd also stop confiding in HER daughter, but that's me.

Or I'd hire a private investigator to see just what she's doing until 3AM, although I get the feeling if you have her on tape, committing adultery, you won't believe your own eyes or will argue with me about what you just saw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Would you point out where I said to do to her what she's doing to you?

You can't seem to stay on track or understand what is being said to you. I don't understand your confusion.

What would I do? I would stop remembering when and do something - now. I'd also stop confiding in HER daughter, but that's me.

Or I'd hire a private investigator to see just what she's doing until 3AM, although I get the feeling if you have her on tape, committing adultery, you won't believe your own eyes or will argue with me about what you just saw.

---

[And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.]

This appears to me like you are telling me to hide stuff from her. What I find really confusing is she gets mad at me when I don't ask about her day, but when I do she gets irritated because I'm invading her territory or something. I also don't think I am confiding in her daughter. I am just trying to answer her questions when she comes asking what is going on. If I shut her out on those questions is she going to be able to come to me when she needs help with other things?

I never posted this: "[And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.]"

What?

I never, ever condone cheating or secrets in a marriage but I do understand your wife's frustration. You ask for advice and opinions here, and probably at home, and pay no attention to the answers. Do you listen to her when she talks to you or do you tune her out, too?

You asked about discussing matters with your stepdaughter. I answered. You may not like it and apparently you have chosen to defend yourself. That's fine.

Apparently doing things your way is working out for you just fine - not!

No one is telling you to hide stuff, we are saying stop asking her permission. If there is someplace you need or want to go, tell her you're going and be done with it.
Personally I think the woman is cheating and could care less what you think or what you do as long as you are there to cover for her when she is gone. But guess what, you have let her do this because you have not put your foot down and said we need to talk or I'm walking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lovemywifeps

My meeting got over about 9:30, so I thought I would stop by the bowling alley to see what was going on.

---

Was that REALLY why you stopped by? Or what does "going on" mean?

Quote:

---

Shortly after I arrived she told me I need to leave and go home. To which I asked why? She replied that she had told the babysitter that I would be home by 10 to relieve her. I didn't argue with her. I left feeling rather confused and hurt.

---

Didn't this get discussed before the sitter was called -- who is going where for how long and who comes home for the sitter to relieve her and pay her?

Quote:

---

My wife didn't come home till 3am that morning again. When I asked her about it the next morning she just simply said that someone had to relieve the babysitter.

---

Why did you ask her about it? You expected an honest answer?

Communication is a real problem in this relationship. You seem to be on the outside looking in.

Your question was:
"is it Ok for a spouse to stay out all night on a weekly basis"

Unless she is working, looking after her sick mother or something else worthwhile that you can confirm- No.
Hire an investigator as mentioned, get the photos and find out for certain and protect your interest.

I think you know what you need to do but don't want to face it. Your wife is disrespecting you and your marriage and you are just letting her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Was that REALLY why you stopped by? or what does "going on" mean?

Didn't this get discussed before the sitter was called -- who is going where for how long and who comes home for the sitter to relieve her and pay her?

Why did you ask her about it? You expected an honest answer?

Communication is a real problem in this relationship. You seem to be on the outside looking in.

---

I just really wanted to see my wife and spend some time with her. I could have went to the bar with some of the other board members as they were going to have a little send off for the retiring members. Instead I thought my wife is in town, why not spend the time with her. That's it.
No, unfortunately we did not discuss the babysitter thing. She had lined the sitter. I'm not sure where she came up with the 10pm deadline as I don't remember telling her I would be done by then.
Why wouldn't I ask her about it the next morning and expect an honest answer. She is my wife.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I never posted this: "[And a subset of that is to stop telling her what you are doing, and asking permission, and getting home before you turn into a pumpkin.]"

What?

I never, ever condone cheating or secrets in a marriage but I do understand your wife's frustration. You ask for advice and opinions here, and probably at home, and pay no attention to the answers. Do you listen to her when she talks to you or do you tune her out, too?

You asked about discussing matters with your stepdaughter. I answered. You may not like it and apparently you have chosen to defend yourself. That's fine.

Apparently doing things your way is working out for you just fine - not!

---

Sorry, I got the posts mixed up. Hell I'm mixed up over this deal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joypulv

MAN! You aren't getting it. No, who would be OK with the way she acts? I and no one said it was OK.

You act like we are supposed to reach through the internet and rake her over the coals and get her to change her ways. She isn't even here.

You start out not wanting to lose her, but then complain about how she acts unfairly and not like a wife and mother, and THEN whine about what you miss, the past that cannot ever come back. You can't have all 3. You accept her the way she is, OR get help together, OR go along with the divorce.

---

OK. After getting away from the computer, and getting a chance to think about all this I think you are starting to get through to this thick stubborn German head of mine. Although I usually say that anyone who thinks Germans are stubborn has never met a Norwegian. I came back here and was going to post what I was thinking and there in your last sentence was pretty much what I was thinking.
Now what do I do?
I don't really see either of us happy with divorce. Even long term I don't see time lessening the pain.
I'm not happy with the way things are right now. I feel disrespected by her. She hold me accountable for all the problems we are having. I'm not trying to deny any accountability. I don't think she is real happy right now either.
That leaves help through counseling. Which I'm all for. Like I said before I was seeing our pastor before she told my I had to go to counseling. He was willing to work with both of us, but as I said she was pissed at me for talking to him in the first place.
Now how do we find some common ground until we can get into a counselor? She did not want to go together. One of her comments that troubles me is she told me that the only reason she is going to see one is to get an OK to file for divorce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lovemywifeps

I don't really see either of us happy with divorce.

---

Why do you say this? You have never indicated that she has mixed feelings about the marriage, but definitely wants a divorce.

Quote:

---

I don't think she is real happy right now either.

---

What makes you think that?

Quote:

---

Now how do we find some common ground until we can get into a counselor? She did not want to go together.

---

You don't search for common ground. You (or she) make an appointment for a marriage counselor as soon as possible, and even sooner, like this week. The counseling has to be with both of you in attendance. Will she go?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Why do you say this? You have never indicated that she has mixed feelings about the marriage, but definitely wants a divorce.

What makes you think that?

You don't search for common ground. You (or she) make an appointment for a marriage counselor as soon as possible, and even sooner, like this week. The counseling has to be with both of you in attendance. Will she go?

---

She has not kicked me out yet nor has she left. We still sleep in the same bed. I haven't woke up to find her pointing her 38 at me yet. But yet she is the one who suggested divorce. I guess I'm confused too.
She said she wanted to make an appointment for herself with a separate counselor. I have already made an appointment, but the soonest I could get in is three weeks away. She has reluctantly agreed to meet with our pastor, but I'm not sure it's worth the time when she was pissed at me for talking to him in the first place.

I had another person say to me that it sounds like she has gotten the "Seven Year Itch". Kind of sounds like the shoe fits. Now how do I go about resolving this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lovemywifeps

She has not kicked me out yet nor has she left.

---

Why would she? You are good to have around to do stuff that she can't do because she is at work or otherwise out of the house.

Quote:

---

We still sleep in the same bed.

---

You still have an intimate sexual life together?

Quote:

---

She said she wanted to make an appointment for herself with a separate counselor.

---

To what end?

You go together to a counselor, to work on the marriage or come to an agreement about the divorce.

"Seven-Year Itch" was the name of a romantic movie (and probably the title of a book). That's not what is happening here.

Rather than reading the words written on this thread, I am going to "read between the lines," having been in a similar situation.

To the OP, I see that you are a very caring husband and father/step-father.

I don't see a problem having a discussion with the 11 year old if she is asking what is going on, but you shouldn't bring it up either. Talking to her at her appropriate age level is okay. It seems she feels more comfortable talking to you than she does her own mother. She needs, and deserves, comfort when things are disruptive. She needs stability, which it seems that she is not getting from her own mother.

It's very clear to those of us who are not engulfed in this situation that your wife is having an affair.

I'm not one for ultimatums, in fact I despise them. But, it appears that this is what you need as she is using you for her own benefit. It's counseling or divorce. She has 3 days to give you an answer. If she doesn't give you an answer in 3 days, file for divorce. It appears you are the only anchor in the lives of the child(ren), so make sure that you file for custody as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Why would she? You are good to have around to do stuff that she can't do because she is at work or otherwise out of the house.

You still have an intimate sexual life together?

To what end?

You go together to a counselor, to work on the marriage or come to an agreement about the divorce.

"Seven-Year Itch" was the name of a romantic movie (and probably the title of a book). That's not what is happening here.

---

It is hard to keep up with all I do. Even a little frustrating when I busting my butt around here and I find her just playing word with friends.
We have had sex. Been a few weeks though. I would hardly call it intimate.
What do you mean "To what end"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J_9

Rather than reading the words written on this thread, I am going to "read between the lines," having been in a similar situation.

To the OP, I see that you are a very caring husband and father/step-father.

I don't see a problem having a discussion with the 11 year old if she is asking what is going on, but you shouldn't bring it up either. Talking to her at her appropriate age level is okay. It seems she feels more comfortable talking to you than she does her own mother. She needs, and deserves, comfort when things are disruptive. She needs stability, which it seems that she is not getting from her own mother.

It's very clear to those of us who are not engulfed in this situation that your wife is having an affair.

I'm not one for ultimatums, in fact I despise them. But, it appears that this is what you need as she is using you for her own benefit. It's counseling or divorce. She has 3 days to give you an answer. If she doesn't give you an answer in 3 days, file for divorce. It appears you are the only anchor in the lives of the child(ren), so make sure that you file for custody as well.

---

I don't really go for ultimatums either. She gave me one to see a counselor or she was going to leave. I found out last night that she however has not made her own appointment like she said she was going to. All the counselors in the area are booked up. Would it be worth making her go see our pastor with me? He was willing to work with both of us. This may be little beyond his expertise, but it's a start. As I said before she was pissed at me for talking with him in the first place.

Given the frustration I'm feeling with this thread, I can fully understand why your wife wants to see someone alone. I don't think I have ever encountered someone who goes in a circle more times than you, at least not someone as articulate and obviously intelligent as you. My advice is go to your pastor or a therapist alone, and let her go alone, and also try to keep the couple counseling appointment that's 3 weeks from now! Personally I think you need a very, very experienced therapist, because you will talk circles around him or her just as you do with yourself.

I'll say it as many different ways as I can: you seem to think that because her behavior is 'wrong,' that you have some 'right' to expect/demand that she change. AIN'T Going to HAPPEN because she doesn't care.

EDIT: MAKE her go see your pastor?? With what, a cattle prod? What is the matter with you?

What would be a reasonable compromise in your opinion lovemywife?
Something like- she can stay out until 3 AM just every other week instead of every week. Or two nights until just 2 AM instead of one until 3 AM?
You don't worry about your wife's safety even, being out at those hours? You can't see the forest for the trees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smearcase

What would be a reasonable compromise in your opinion lovemywife?
Something like- she can stay out til 3 AM just every other week instead of every week. Or two nights til just 2 AM instead of one til 3 AM?
You don't worry about your wife's safety even, being out at those hours? You can't see the forest for the trees.

---

Yes I do worry about her safety. I have told her that. To which she argues that she is a big girl and can take care of herself. I think I said in an earlier post that we live 15 miles from town so its not like she can just walk or catch a taxi home from the bar. She is small in size so even a couple of drinks probably puts her on the edge of legal BAC. We have crappy winter roads here too just adding to my worry. She just blows off my concerns.

I always bring this up because of my personal experiences (best friend, employees, and a son) but it always has to be considered. Does she have an alcohol and/or drug problem? If God forbid she has an accident with overlimit BAC, most likely your name will be on the lawsuits too. When you add up all the concerns and risks (you already know what they are and throw disease in the mix too), your best course of action should be clear to you. But get the evidence first and protect your interest.