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Very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
It's the same as we hear on the forum here so often, "he's so controlling" or "she's so controlling." I don't get the big deal... there's a HUGE difference between being with someone who is controlling and BEING controlled. If my wife were "controlling" and I didn't participate, she wouldn't be controlling much, would she?
Folks REALLY need to stop abdicating responsibility for their lives to other people.
"Yes, but I loooooove him..."
JB, I respect your opinions and often agree with what you say. And thanks for the "agree."
But I don't agree with your interpretation of my comments. I was not saying that the OP was responsible for his own oppression. I am not convinced he is oppressed, so he can't be responsible for something that is not happening.
I'll grant that people are sometimes complicit in their own mistreatment. I know this happens. But often the "doormats" are just making the best of a bad situation day to day. Controlling people (of both sexes) can and do coerce loved ones through substantive threats against children, pets, or friends and family, which they carry out if they don't get compliance. (If your husband/wife really will do something cruel to your son if you go bowling, it's rational, if sad, to decide not to go.) So being a doormat often results from not wanting to see your children, friends, and pets (or even some valued object like a car or painting) get hurt--not because "I loooooove him..." to use your apparently sarcastic phrase.
To clarify what I WAS saying: I am saying that the OP doesn't sound oppressed, if, by his own statement, he is "lets" her do things. I think he is so used to thinking in terms of what he lets her do that it just slipped out. I was pointing out a single example (from many) of his choice of words--that in his mind he "lets" her do things, whether it's to use the internet or walk all over him. In his mind, she is not really a free agent, but someone who is SUPPOSED to do only what he decides is allowable in the relationship.
It is also classic for controlling partners to not let go in a divorce, not because they are deeply in love (in fact they are very angry), but because it feels like they are losing a battle and they do not like to lose. In his mind, she only gets to leave if he "lets" her and he hasn't decided to do that so far.
I wasn't interpreting your comments. I understood your point. Mine is a corollary of my own, not a correction of yours. I'm sorry if it read that way.
We're suggesting two parts of the same idea. Perhaps my sidebar should be ignored altogether within this specific thread.
Okay! I just wanted to be understood. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JBeaucaire
I do take your own point.
Well, you guys were onto something. There are underlying reasons to her 'roaming,' but not an abusive/controlling husband. More like an inattentive husband.
After two weeks of counseling, it became abundantly clear that our marriage was lacking a key aspect, communication. Anytime there was a problem, we were afraid of confronting each other and instead buried the issue.
I also admit, I was a lazy husband. I didn't help as much as I should, both in maintaining our home and family.
This is why she started talking to this other guy, to fill this void and to escape the problems we never confronted.
This past week, she claimed to both the counselor and myself that she broke things off with this other guy and is willing to work to fix our marriage. As far as myself, I've already stopped being so lazy and we have already started communicating much more. We are each seeing the counselor twice a week, once alone and again as a couple.
Our counselor first thought that after the first meetings with us that she didn't think we would fix our marriage. But after our most recent couples session, she emailed us both that night and said she saw a completely different picture when we actually opened up to one another.
Thanks again to those who helped.
Im glad to hear that things are going better now. I don't think that you being a "lazy" husband is an excuse for her emotional affair. But it is good that you are both realizing that there are things you need to work on to improve your marriage.
My next "point" is kind of unimportant at the moment because you guys are working things out but I want to share it anyway. I don't think you should use your daughter as a barganing chip... neither one of you should threaten the other with paternal rights. If you were to split up then you can take it court and let the court decide the custody... would you really want your wife to still be your wife only because she is afraid of losing her daughter? Not to mention it is not fair to your kid. And parents should never stay together "for the sake of the kids"... the kids will know that the love isn't truly there and they will see you fighting all the time... and typically they will seek that kind of relationship when they are older even if just subconsciencly. Like I said... it doesn't really apply to you anymore since things are getting better. I can speak from experience in that it will take some time to get over this "fantasy crush" that she had so be patient. I truly hope things work out for you guys. Keep up with the therapy and praying. And definitely keep up the communication at home. Good luck!
Thanks, but once again, I spoke too soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by kraussnumber2
While the whole custody issue is out the window, the counseling didn't amount to jack. The 'progress' that we made in our joint session, the emotion that she showed to both the counselor and myself, was merely an act. Even our counselor was shocked by this revelation, and I am left with another knife in my back. And she still wants to keep our friendship intact... lies and deceit aren't the way to do so.
What has happened??
As I stated before, her family was out for blood for her using them.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
She ended up moving back in and things were semi-resolved. As a sign that I was still at her side, I put myself in the cross hairs for her and asked her family to back off and give us some space. So now half of her family is pissed at me for defending her. I almost gave my cellphone back to her parents (we're under their family plan and they turned her phone off), as a sign that I was on her side, if she doesn't have a phone from them, I don't want mine either.
I've been helping out around the house. I moved all of the furniture and boxes back into the house. I unpacked and sorted most of it. I've been doing dishes twice a day , cleaning the living/dining rooms and laundry. Pretty much, I became the housewife, while still working and taking care of our daughter. I'm showing 200% devotion to fixing our marriage.
We started seeing a counselor a few weeks ago, individually and together. We finally had our first couples session this past Sunday and she showed a lot of 'real' emotion. We held hands almost the entire time, and at one point we were to look into each others eyes. This gaze must have lasted 30 minutes. As we looked at each other, we were asked questions about one another by the counselor. Then we were asked where we saw ourselves in 25 years, when our daughter is our age(s). We both said, laughingly, "As the crotchety couple that argue over stupid things, but still together and really happy." At this point, we both welled up.
We were given a homework assignment, four to be exact.
1. Spend 30 minutes a day, holding hands and looking at each other and just talk about whatever.
2. 1-2 times a week, play a board game together. Something to bond over, either working together or against each other.
3. Spend 30 minutes a night just dancing dancing together.
4. Spend time as a family, with our daughter.
We left the counselor's, holding hands and had a great afternoon. We went to lunch, went shopping for a few new board games and picked up our daughter from her grandparents'.
That night, she made dinner and at her request, I set-up her computer. She said she just wanted to check her email and possibly try to work on fixing our budget. Then her attitude 180'ed.
She said she would only be online for an hour. She spent about an hour online, chatting with her friends, checking her email, etc. Apparently not the "affair guy," as she claims she hasn't talked to him since last Friday, when she "told him it was over." I sat on the couch and patiently watched some quality Fox programming (:p).
She got away from the computer and laid on the other couch, all mopey. She said that she didn't feel like doing any of our "homework." That newly found feeling from that morning was gone.
The whole night went the same way, with us eventually going to bed and not really talking. We snuggled at night, but she claimed it was only because it was cold in the house.
Monday, same deal, mostly. Things were okay in the morning. She was running late, so I got up and helped her get ready to go. I had the day off work, but had a meeting with the counselor that morning. We ended up having a good lunch together, and went looking at getting a new cell phone plan of our own. She went back to work, I picked up our daughter from the grandparents and went to look for a dining room table, as the one we had belonged to her grandmother, who refuses to let us have it back because of the aforementioned issues.
When she got home from work, I had dinner ready for her. While we were eating, the subject somehow turned ugly. She said that I was fighting an uphill battle on a greased slope. She then clarified by saying that she doesn't want to try to fix our marriage. :confused:
I immediately contacted our counselor and she was just as shocked as I was. I don't know what happened, but this is what happened two weeks ago when she told me she wanted to fix things, and then changed her mind two days later because she "thought it over and decided against it."
So, here we are. Our counselor is at a complete loss for words, as am I. I've been fighting back tears since last night, unsuccessfully at times. I don't know where to turn from here. I feel like I was lied to, led on, deceived and used.
I wrote up a rather brutally honest email to my wife, sent it to the counselor to check it first and she said to send it to my wife. So we'll see what comes of it when I get home from work tonight.
In the meantime, I'm trying to keep a strong face around my daughter. She's seen enough crying and suffering this past month than I wanted her to see her entire life.
You are reacting to one bad conversation? I think you need to be more patient with this process of fixing the marriage. She's not going to come back in two weeks. This could take months.
Also, how much time does your daughter spend with her grandparents?
Get rid of the computer.
Why am I getting the impression she wants you to leave, and she stays in the house??
Get rid of the computer won't solve the issue because I am sure she have other ways to get contact with him. If she starts calling him on the phone, you can't hide the phone.
It seems that she no longer wants to be in the marriage and that why she left in the first place and only came back when her parents threaten to take her daughter away that was a red flag and she can't even commit to counseling, another red flag. Even the counselor see through her, more red flags.
In the end you have to do what is right for you and your daughter. Staying with her isn't good for you at all. Again, she's playing games but you don't have to be part of it. Again, do what is right for you and your child.
It good that you realize your faults but a marriage takes two people in order for it to work and at this time she don't want it to.
That's one thing she asked me Sunday night, right when her attitude started shifting. "How long is this supposed to take?" I kept telling her that it is going to take time and commitment to fix the damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I want to make it work and will have infinite patience. I told her I don't expect any sense of "normal" for at least a month, and she shouldn't either. I have a feeling that she really wants to fix things, but is unsure if it will work out.
During the week, whenever we're both at work (3-4 days/week) she spends the day with her grandparents, with an occasional sleepover.
Im glad that your realize it is going to take time... and honestly probably more then a month. I would ask your couselor to try to convey that to your wife. That these things take time as the problems didn't occur overnight and they won't be fixed overnight. Maybe ask your counselor which of the four homework items is most important and ask if she thinks it would be all right to work on just one to start. Maybe your wife is feeling overwhelmed with this and therefore having just one item to work on for awhile would be better. Or maybe atternate throughout the week. One night play a game, the next sit and talk, the next night dance together, etc.
Im so sorry to hear that things haven't been going as good as you would like. I hope your wife gets on board with this soon and you can work it out. Keep staying strong for your daughter... try to shelter her from any more pain... it sounds like you are doing a good job of this already! Good luck!
A few interesting follow-ups.
I finally decided to accept the pending divorce, instead of fighting it any longer. We were to go this coming Sunday to see our counselor (who has a background in marriage/divorce law) to do the paperwork. We were going to split custody and end it civilly
Not now. I discovered this morning, through some investigation, that this past Friday she engaged in a serious online sex session, while admitting that our daughter was home. She claimed that she didn't even touch the computer that night, as she was "watching our daughter."
And another neat discovery. He told her that he wanted to have kids with her (the comment implied having their "own" next christmas) and she had "tears of joy" over it. Keep in mind, she wants to have this guy's kids, but has still not even met him.
At this point, I want her to get a mental evaluation. I don't trust her with anything, not even with watching our daughter. We're moving out tonight, when I get home from work. If she wants to ruin her life, so be it. But she's not ruining my daughter's in the process.
Do what you have to for your child!
She realizes now, that if this goes to court, I will more than likely win custody.
I just learned yesterday, finally by her own admission, that she did indeed meet with this guy a few weeks ago. She claims that after she dropped me off at work, she met him at church (catholic too, how ironic) and then went out to lunch and that is all. The kicker? She took our daughter with her to meet this "guy from the internet" after I specifically told her that I do not want her exposed to this guy.
She admitted to kissing him, so how is our daughter supposed to interpret that, considering we had kissed in front of her hours before?
Her defense in all of this is that leaving the house is a dangerous prospect, you can get hit by a car, mugged, etc and what she did is no worse. I asked her what her plan was if this guy turned violent, and she only said "he didn't, so there's no need to worry about it." I asked her again and she said "I have my cellphone, I would have called the police." To which I replied "and if he assaulted you, knocking you out and kidnapping our daughter, then what?" Her reply, "It was broad daylight, nobody would do something like that when it's light out. If something would have happened, it would have been dealt with." "How so?" She couldn't give me an answer.
Her rationale is insanely unbelievable. She endangered our daughter's well-being to satisfy her own agenda, and feels no regret just because he didn't do anything crazy. I informed the grandparents of this last night and they are furious. Her own mother told her it would be better if she just signed over her parental rights, got into the car and left town.
In addition, she just got fired from her job yesterday, so her plan of kicking me out and paying the bills on her own just went out the window. Ironically, I was planning on moving out yesterday and taking my daughter to her grandparents'. But now, what do I do?
At this point, we are all thinking she needs some serious psychiatric help. Any other advice?
First, she can't just sign over her rights. In most cases a judge will only allow a parent to clear way for adoption. Otherwise, she has to be an extreme danger to her child and even though what she did was wrong, by taking her daughter with her, it doesn't make her unfit but shows her judgement was bad.
I think you should stick to your plan and move out with your daughter. This situation is unhealthy for you and your daughter. It clear that your wife intents on being with this guy and to be honest I don't think she's crazy, maybe not thinking clearly, but it clear about what she wants to do. Get out of this web and free yourself because there's nothing for you to do. Save yourself and you can't always save someone from jumping out a cliff.
Make sure the separation you get when you leave is a LEGAL separation.
Otherwise, as her spouse, you may be responsible for half of her bills/expenses, even though you're not living with her---and that would include credit card debt from flights to see this guy, new clothes, mortgage, car payments, etc. You name it, you're half responsible for it, because you're married.
Take your daughter, leave, see a lawyer, and get a legal separation.
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