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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

I think the government ought to get OUT of the marriage business. Why is it their business WHO we marry??

Excon

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I couldn't agree with you more... love and commitment is between 2 PEOPLE... not 2 people and the government.

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Wondergirl: Marriage is a religious union, and I don't think the religious part of being a legal couple concerns that many gay partners. Of course, there could be some kind of religious dedication ceremony written that might help gay couples take their union even more seriously.

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This ties in with my agreement with excon as well... marriage is about love and commitment between 2 people... not 2 people and religion.
I am not religious, nor do I believe in god (and I'm hoping this statement doesn't spin off to another religious debate)... I am just stating, that I am married and its not a religious union... should should I have not been allowed to marry my husband?

Love shouldn't have laws or limitations.

I am against it. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
I have no problem with gay couples. If they want a civil union, great. Things are starting to change - you can have your partner listed on your health insurance, etc. I just don't think a union with 2 ssame sex people should be called "marriage".

The government provides a contract for two people, ( normally man and women currently) to join into a civil contract in which each takes on specific liabilitys and duties toward the other. The actual terms of this contract is not national in the US, but by state, I believe even in canada the terms of the contract are by provinence and vary some.

The fallicy that this is called marriage has come from over time, the state taking over the place of the church, in early times there were no civil contracts but all marriages were arranged and tracked by the church, and in other times and cultures there were no actual legal contracts merely a custom or tradition that joined the couple with no written legal contract.

So as customs moved, and governments make laws, marriage was controlled by the state , which is not the right of the governmetn to do so. So a couple can marry without a license from the state, but they do not get reconised for legal rights, this is where the state is interfering with religious culture and rights.

So does a gay couple have the right to marry, by whose standards, if they belong to a religious group that allows it, of course they can but that does not mean a governemnt has to reconinse it. That is a different standard.

The laws of a government is set by the culture and moral fiber of its citizens, in such the nature in the US today is that such marriages are not to be allowed, and as such the laws of the nation should reflect that if the government is going to control it. ( which it should not)

Should a religious body be free to refuse to perform a gay marriage of course, and in some areas where religious groups are being forced to have to reconise these, that is another abuse of state power.

So the nation as a law should not even be issuing marriage.

As for me personally, no gay marriage is against the moral laws of God, against nature and is disgrace of how low man can move down the ladder of evolution.

You all bring up very good points.

I have no problem with gay couples being married, but the question comes into what are you going to call it? For the record, I don't care what you call it, but maybe there's a way to appease others who DO care.

Perhaps the government should get out of "marriage" and only recognize "civil unions". You are only "married" in a church ceremony, and the government couldn't give a hoot.

Not religious? Gay? Don't have a church you belong to? That's a civil union, recognized by the state and the federal government.

Religious? Belong to a church? Found a church who will marry you? Then you have a ceremony and you are "married" in the eyes of the church. Again, it means squat to the government; sort of like if you get baptized. The state doesn't care, only you, your church and your family care.

It's all semantics. It's all coming up with a word that gives the same rights and equal treatment to everyone, but just making sure that word isn't "marriage". Because really, if the government allowed everyone to get married, and then the churches developed a new thing; "marriage in the eyes of god" or something, what's the difference? What it comes down to is you either think gays should have the same rights as others or you don't. Take the language out of it - it's rights versus no rights.

I don't care who gets married, since half of them don't work out anyway.

Marriage today, to me, is nothing more than an economic union. Anyone should be able to marry anyone they wanted. We have a separation of church and state, and the only logical reason we have to ban same sex marriages is because of religious reasons.

Im against it. I used to try hard to not get red dots, and just wouldn't answer on these types of questions... but Ive come to realize that in modern society, true Christianity is just one big red dot. Don't think that Im a homophobe by any means... Im also against pre marital sex, and smoking, drinking, cursing, and anything else that God has said isn't right.
Homosexuals say they are born that way... that's fine, everyone needs to be born again anyway... I promise you'll come out straight at that point. :)
Just a side note, any person that skips over anything in the Bible, saying its less important, or trying to rationalize, they're making up their own god, and belief system. If you're a Christian you are of the Bible, straight up.
~Ash

No one is the bible "Straight up"

This one is surprisingly simple for me:

I don't care what anyone else does. Its not for me to judge or decide what's right for someone else.

I don't mind if there want to marry there should be allowed cause it doesn't matter what sex you are, if you love someone you should be allowed so I agree its no ones business once the two people involved are happy
So yes I think gays have a right to get married like a man and woman do

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Originally Posted by sGt HarDKorE

no one is the bible "Straight up"

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No one is the Bible? You mean no denomination has it right?

No I meant that no christian would be a christian if the therms you said. You said that a true christian would follow the bible strictly but everyone sins

For a christian, we are not judging when we compare a persons works, to the guidelines set for us in the bible, The main issue on sin, is that most homosexuals will not admit that their sexual activitiy is sin. They want it to be accepted as a choice, not a sin.

And with alll sin, the Christian is suppose to be working hard, not to sin,
If a person is a drunk, they are to try and stay sober, not move in with a bartender and live in the bar.
If a person is a thief, they don't form a gang and go out to rob on a regular bais, they try hard to stop stealing.

So if the homosexual admits their sexual actions are sin, and they repent of them and try hard to stop sexual activities,?

That is the difference, a sinner is to admit their sin, and repent and try to turn from the sin, Whan a homosexual does that, they then move towards forgiveness.

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Originally Posted by sGt HarDKorE

No i meant that no christian would be a christian if the therms you said. You said that a true christian would follow the bible strictly but everyone sins

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I definitely agree that everyone sins, that is withough doubt, the thing it though that many people try to pick what they want to follow knowing fully that it is taught in the Bible as sin, and they call themselves Christian.
Homosexuals aren't the only ones to blame about it though... people who smoke weed say "well God made it... its all natural" but then they ignore that the ground has been cursed in Genesis.
People ignore the verses that talk about profain and vain babblings and say that cursing "is a cultural thing" and people try to say that fornication isn't a sin as long as you truly 'love' the other person, and some even go as far as saying stuff like "wel fornication is from the word porneum which means sex while married or sex with a woman on her period" (no Ive really heard it)
The fact is that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but in order for repentance to take place, which is necessary for salvation, one needs to take note of the fact that what they are doing is a sin. Repentance is a sorrowful submission, and a constant servanthood to the One who was merciful to look past it all.

PS. I really don't want to get into any debates about weed fornication or cursing... those were examples...
~Ash

Hello Ash:

I didn't know the Bible says that smoking pot will send you to hell. If you can show me the passage, I'm going to stop that evil weed.

excon

Well, to me... Gay marriage is just fine.

As far as MY interpretation of the Bible goes: If homosexuality is a sin, then incest is okay (Lot and his daughters) and so is tricking your brother out of his inheritance (Jacob and Esau). It's also a sin to masturbate (isn't someone struck down for spilling his seed on the ground?) and everyone should have to marry their widowed in-laws.

If you try to tell me that THOSE are just cultural differences of the times--well, I'm going to tell you that being gay is too. The reason (from MY interpretation) that being gay was bad is that god only wanted sex for children. Well... if you're not trying to have kids, then, you shouldn't be having sex! (by those standards).

Love is love. There is so much hate in this world already, why are we NOT celebrating love wherever it is found?

sorry it seems every time one starts to discuss homosexuality as a sin, this is what they do, they just won't admit it is, they start bringing up a 100 other sins, well OK those are sins, ( well smoking pot is not in the bible) but losing control compared to drinking is, so lets say it is a sin, that is just an excuse for the drug users and it is still a sin and they are just as wong at not admiting their guilt.

And those things like incest, and lying is also a sin, many people in the bible sin, but they would turn from their sin.

Love is great and just calling sin a sin is not hate, it is merely the truth, truth is not hate, but is considered hate to those not wanting to hear the truth

The only reason the State has to be involved, and it's a good one, is that the courts have to adjudicate disputes about property, child custody, inheritance, medical decisions, and who can be compelled to testify in court (spouses don't have to). So the real issue isn't about marriage as much as it is about death, divorce, kids, and property. In all those matters, gay and lesbian couples deserve every bit as much legal protection and rights of due process as straight people.

I agree with jillianleab, invent whatever classifications and call them by whatever names the various political factions can live with, but don't try to deny basic legal rights to people because of sexual orientation.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Ash:

I didn't know the Bible says that smoking pot will send you to hell. If you can show me the passage, I'm gonna stop that evil weed.

excon

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Romans 6:23

Also the bible says to obey the laws of the government, the overused but still adequate body being the temple of God, the fact that if something you're doing could make your brother sin, even if it isn't a sin, not to do it for the blood of their soul in on your hands at that point... also, it says to keep your conscience clear so that if at any man condemns you that you will proclaim blamelessness without fault, but those are given to believers... don't bother unless you're doing for the glory of God and to follow Him in thought and deed, lest you only gain a sober man in hell.
~Ash