She has to waltz somewhere. The photo's look like her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It doesn't matter and I don't care. But just for grins, what would you do if she showed up in your church? Would you approach her?
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She has to waltz somewhere. The photo's look like her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It doesn't matter and I don't care. But just for grins, what would you do if she showed up in your church? Would you approach her?
One woman almost got killed because she looks like Casey. I'm told I have doubles walking around, and you do too probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Of course I would. "Approach" is the wrong word; that sounds sneaky. I would welcome her and bring her a cup of coffee and invite her to stay for Bible class.Quote:
But just for grins, what would you do if she showed up in your church? Would you approach her?
No. The judge is adamant that probation is to happen where the crime took place. She could be forced to go back to Florida and stay for the entire year of her probation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Her dream team is fighting in court right now, but the judges orders were very clear at her hearing. Probation was not to start until after she got out of jail.
Looks like she'll be forced to go home one way or another.
I know your question isn't directed at me, but I'd like to answer anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
First, I don't go to church, so I wouldn't run into her there. I also don't think she's the type of person that would go to church. If I were her I'd be afraid to cross the threshold in fear of being struck by lightening from heaven. ;)
But, if I did run into her, I wouldn't physically assault her. It's not my style. I would however tell her exactly what I think of her, and that I think she got away with murder, and that I hope that whatever tiny bit of conscience she has, haunts her for the rest of her life.
I can honestly say that I hope that her remaining days on this earth are filled with the same hell she put her poor child through. I do not wish her the best, I do not forgive her, and I never will. She should be rotting in jail. I'll never feel differently.
R.I.P Caylee.
I don't think I could talk to her. WG you sound so forgiving, but are you really? Would you really be open to her? I doubt it.
I would burst into tears at the mere sight of her. I wouldn't talk to her or physically assault her, also not my style. I am sure she will get her punishment, but I am not the one to dole it out. I am not so quick to forgive. Especially the murder of a baby.
I couldn't bring myself to talk to her... but remember like OJ... this is not over yet. The Civil cases haven't even started yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
If you knew me in real life, you wouldn't say that. I talk to ANYone -- rich, poor, guilty, not guilty, homeless, corporate head. That's what I did in Libraryland for 30 years in order to get answers for patrons. We librarians don't just look up stuff, we call whomever we need to in order to get the right answers for our patrons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
I've initiated phone contact with a bunch of people on this site and on others, mostly to hear their voice and get to know them beyond the monitor screen. Hearing a voice, and, in Casey's case if she came to my church, seeing her facial expressions and body language would tell me an awful lot about her. (And I went to psych grad school to enable me to do that well.)
Talking to Casey and being civil to her has nothing to do with forgiveness.
I have such a problem with hypocrites! That's partly why I don't go to church.
Sorry, that was just an aside and I don't mean to hijack... now back to the thread.
I'll further hijack. You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. "Church,"Dear Abby said, "is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints."Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I see what you mean WG. I guess to be nice or hospitable to someone I hated seems two faced to me. Not saying you are at all, just how I interpreted the question.
I have and do talk to just about anyone, as far as rich or poor goes, that means nothing to me. I don't care how much or how little someone has.
I don't know if you read the link I attached previously, but my uncle (by marriage) was accused of murder and found guilty, spent 10 years in jail before the RCMP reviewed his case again and found him not guilty. He was put in jail because of a racist bigoted RCMP officer who stated "Let an Indian burn for it". In 1971, he was wrongfully convicted of murdering his friend, in a Sydney, N.S. park. He was just 17 years old when he received a life sentence.
He was released in 1982 after RCMP reviewed his case. He was cleared by the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal the following year. Though the Appeal Court declared him not guilty, he was told he had contributed to his own conviction and that any miscarriage of justice was more apparent than real.
I am not one to jump at conclusions or believe everything I hear. But this case, screams guilt to me. And to be hospitable to her would make me feel that she deserves better.
But isn't that the whole point of Christianity -- to be nice to someone who is hated? Jesus did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
It's not that I can't be nice to someone who is hated, I am mean (hypothetically) to a woman who killed her child.
At the risk of getting more rocks thrown at me, I will remind you she was declared "not guilty" in a U.S. court of law. You and I don't KNOW if she killed her child or not. (And no, I don't need to see a list of the circumstantial evidence again.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Would you visit her in prison if she were serving a life sentence?
NO! I would never visit her. I don't need a court to tell me she is guilty. I know she is. I don't believe everything I hear, I have made my own judgment on this woman. Now, if say she were spending a life in jail, and then it came to light she was not the murderer, and I mean there would have to be more than just circumstantial evidence, like the real murderer came forward, I would love to talk to her in church.
Would you visit her? And let’s say she was found guilty, and for some reason was not serving a life sentence. Would you still treat her the same way? And would you be able to forgive her if she has done what the courts feel is her "time and punishment"?
Of course I would visit her!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
If she had been found guilty in the first degree, which is what the prosecution was going for, she would be serving a life sentence. And yes, I would treat her the same way and forgive her even now. Forgiving her does NOT mean "Oh, it's okay now. What you did just fine."
It is not for me to judge her; that's in God hands.
Why would you want to visit her? What would you want to talk about with her? Forgiving her means accepting what she has done. I'm talking hypothetical here, all of this is just hypothetical if we encountered her scenarios.
I feel like I am a bad Christian because I can't or won't forgive her. I could never accept what she has done. Would you forgive the devil too? (not meaning that to sound as snarky as it appears). Would you forgive anyone who asked? Is there a cut off to how much evil a person can do before they don't get the forgivness anymore?
That is absolutely not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Really?
. Forgiveness - compassionate feelings that support a willingness to forgive
Mercifulness, mercy - the feeling that motivates compassion
2. forgiveness - the act of excusing a mistake or offense
Pardon
Benignity, kindness - a kind act
Condonation - a pardon by treating the offender as if the offense had not occurred
Exculpation - the act of freeing from guilt or blame
Yes, really.
Forgiveness is for YOU, not for the offender.
Forgiveness is letting go of the need for revenge and releasing negative thoughts of bitterness and resentment. -psychcentral.com
*****
Forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentment and thoughts of revenge. The act that hurt or offended you may always remain a part of your life, but forgiveness can lessen its grip on you and help you focus on other, positive parts of your life. Forgiveness can even lead to feelings of understanding, empathy and compassion for the one who hurt you.
Forgiveness doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act. Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. -mayoclinic.com
*****
Forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger. -Wikipedia.com
Forgiving her, in my opinion, is sanctioning what she has done. I haven't said much here about this issue, I guess I don't feel as strongly about it as some others, more or less because I didn't follow the court proceedings as religiously, but I don't think I would ever want to face her without seeing 'blood on her hands' so to speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Tick
Then you don't understand what forgiveness is.Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
Wondergirl, I wouldn't take this any further if I were you. Thanks.
Tick
I completley agree. I am not angry with myself, I do not feel the need to have revenge, I feel the need for her to be punished for what she has done, and since the courts can not or will not do this, I believe God will in th end.Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
Bella, it won't be god who punishes her, it will be an angry person with a gun or knife somewhere along the line, maybe in years to come. We won't come to hear of this though, except a byline in a newspaper with her obit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
She has gone into obscurity where she wants to be. I would be quite pleased not having to read anymore here about her.
Did you read about the huskies that were found at a remote camp in Quebec, malnourished, tied to trees. The article said that homes have already been found for seven of these lovely dogs. They didn't say how many had to be put down. Now... bella, I hope the person that did this rots in hell.
Tick
'scuse me for butting in, but that almost sounds like a threat. She showed several reliable sources that explain why forgiving is not condoning or sanctioning. What part of that do you take issue with?Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
I don't mind you buttin in, dwashbur. Why would it be a threat? It was my own personal preference that she and I not pursue the forgiveness issue for my own personal reasons. The post you are referring to, where W outlined, yes those very good reasons, was in answer to Bella's post not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
As a matter of fact, how would anyone, me in particular as a long time member here, carry out what you are calling a threat? That is a bit much isn't it ? I am not, as you say, taking an issue with anything.
Tick
Tick, I haven't read about the huskies yet. But I can tell you about a similar story from New Brunswick. Some friends and I were camping in a pretty remote area of NB and one night we could hear this bone chilling howling. I mean it scared the crap out of us. The next morning we strapped on the snow shoes and went for a little walk. We came upon this farm with hundreds of huskies in a 1/4 acre penned area. We stopped and chatted to the man, he told us that he uses them for the dog sled races etc. He was feeding them, brushing them, they looked pretty well taken care of. Well a few months had passed and we didn't think much more of it.
The SPCA that I was at- at that time was going in for a 50 dog seizure. Turns out this man had all his best dogs up front, but the poor sick or pregnant ones were kept in a barn. The dogs were emaciated. They all had to be put down because they were feral. Some were young pups less than a year old who didn't make the cut, some were at our guess, around 9 or 10 years of age, with open wounds, maggots, blind, you name it. It was a very sad day. I look at dog sled runners in a new light now.
Okay hijacking over :)
Well, since I'm not a Christian, I can say that I don't forgive her, and I never will. A beautiful child is gone because of her, and many people not only grieved for that child, but searched for her, prayed that she'd be brought home safely, when Casey knew that she was dead the entire time they were searching.
She lied through her teeth to anyone that would listen, and she got away with murder. That's my opinion, and my firm belief. I don't care that the jury found her not guilty, even they think she did it, and many of them have come forward to say that.
She's not worthy of forgiveness, not from me, and she'll never get it from me. What others do is up to them.
My only hope is that her time on this earth is as difficult as it can be, so that she does have to pay for what she did in some way. I don't wish death on her, I don't hope that someone beats her up, I just want her life to be difficult. She took away a bright shining star from this earth. Her punishment should be fitting.
I doubt very much that God will have to deal with her. She'll never see the pearly gates of heaven. The devil will deal with her. She's going straight to hell, where she belongs, when the time comes.
I'm on the same emotional wavelength as Altenweg, but I understand what WG is trying to say. Her (WG) point is not just "Christian", it is universal.
Hatred and anger is a bitter fruit that spoils the tree from which it came. "Forgiveness" is the remedy. Forgiveness is about the forgiv-er, not the person being forgiven.
Certainly, in no conceivable way, does it condone an action or imply what was done is OK.
When Jesus forgave the sinner, he didn't say the action was condoned. He said, "Go, and sin no more".
Forgiveness is one of the most difficult things we will ever do. But it's far better than hatred which keeps us in the evil circle of the Casey Anthonys of this world.
The way it's phrased sounds like there's an "or else" attached to it. I too was wondering how such a threat might be carried out :) but it does in fact sound ominous the way you phrased it. Consider:Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
Now picture, say, Wyatt Earp looking at one of the Clantons, and saying "I wouldn't do that if I were you." That's how the phrasing comes across, at least to me.Quote:
Wondergirl, I wouldn't take this any further if I were you. Thanks.
"I'm not judgin', I'm just sayin'..." ;)
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