Synn, I had to spread the rep, I hate it when that happens. I agree 190%!
If you need signatures for your new campaign, let me know, I'm not American, heck, I'm not even Canadian, but I'll sign. :)
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Synn, I had to spread the rep, I hate it when that happens. I agree 190%!
If you need signatures for your new campaign, let me know, I'm not American, heck, I'm not even Canadian, but I'll sign. :)
So Chuck,Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
What if your son WAS one of two men kissing in public? private or anywhere else.
You don't control what is the essence of another human being.
If he was gay, he would be gay and no amount of teaching that it is morally wrong would change that. Sure, he may suppress himself, since his christian father has scared the bageebies out of him, but he would still be what he is. When teens are shamed for who they are they are depressed, may turn to drugs, or even resort to killing themselves.
Being gay does not just come down to sex. You are still gay whether you have sex with a same sex partner or not. Is that the part that christians are so irate about?
Don't you think God has bigger fish to fry than to worry about who is loving who. Love is encouraged.
Your intolerance is turning people away from your religion. Not because we don't want any rules and we want to do what we want to do. It's because you preach division, judgment, and condemn any love that does not fit your narrow definition.
[QUOTE=inthebox;1448682]Define "rights."
So if one "man" wants to steal 50 billion should that be his constitutional "right" even though the majority think it illlegal? Should he get Jerry Brown to make it his "right" to do this?
What is criminal is using the court to supercede a public vote on the issue.
Whose "morality" are we talking about? How about getting rid of that "religiously imposed " morality against murder or stealing or lying? Are we talking about your morality? How is your morality any better than the majority voters in CA on prop 8? :confused:
And lets be clear here, just because I am, or someone is, not for gay marriage does not necessarily mean we are anti - gay. We can accept and love the person yet disagree or be against a [the] behavior [s].
John 8
Notice that once again sarcasm is applied when you don't have a leg to stand on.
Notice that the things that you mentioned do harm to someone else. They infringe on someone elses property or life. How does being gay take anything away from you?
Why is it any of your business? How can love between two people be wrong?
What I can't understand is the hate. Why so much hate for another human being? If this hate is condoned in the bible, then that's another wonderful reason for me to keep it out of my life.
I thought that Christians were supposed to be loving, caring, the essence of humanity. What about all this talk of "love thy neighbor", what happened to that? Are you really allowed to chose which neighbor to love?
Love is a wonderful thing, how does same sex love affect you personally? I don't understand what you think a gay couple can do to you if given the right to marry. Please, someone explain it to me, because I'm in the dark. What powers will they have once they're allowed to marry? Is it that you can't stand them having the same rights as the rest of us? Aren't they human? Last time I checked they were, maybe I'm wrong.
So, in other words, the bible preaches that we should love everyone, except the ones that we don't want to love. Guess I missed that part in bible class. :(
[QUOTE=cozyk;1472579]My leg is the majority vote of the people in California.Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
John 8 - Yes, you are forgiven, sin no more.
Prop 8 has nothing to do with to gay people loving each other. It was about MARRIAGE.
If 2 homosexuals want to love each other - hey go for it! - I never stated I was against LOVE.
I'm not homosexual so "being gay " does not take or add anything away from me ;) - sarcasm intended.
G&P
I wish for one moment that the religious anti prop 8 people, could come and spend a few days with me here in Canada.
Not only do gay married people not glow in the dark, steal children for sactifice, or corrupt our airwaves with hypnotic messages to convert straight people, they are surprisingly hard to spot.
They are hard to pick out of a crowd of teachers, bankers, shoppers at the mall and spectator events such as hockey or soccer.
They ARE your neighbours, friends, co-workers, lawyers and optometrists. They have two arms, two legs, usually wear shoes, and some even teach bible study at your local church, or are pastors and ministers themselves. Last I heard, they are more than welcoming of straight people in their flock.
Come during the Gay Pride Parade, which is the larges of its kind in the world. EVERYBODY comes out and has a great time. Even the Mayor of Toronto rode in one of the floats.
I have seen both sides of this coin, both before gay marriage was legal, and afterwards when everybody wondered what all the fuss was about.
I hope for the good people of California, that the 'after' comes sooner rather than later and everybody can get back to minding their own business. It really isn't a big deal.
I think he meant both sides believe in a moral issue. Both sides simply don't agree on either the moral or the interpretation of the moral.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeaitsme
I would also like to point out that the word moral implies that there is right and wrong. That there is only one way. That's what makes tolerance difficult. However, the word tolerance is interpreted in many different ways by many different people.
In general, if both sides have 'truth' to it then there are two possibilities. #1 one side is wrong, meaning one side isn't really true; one side isn't valid or doesn't have merit. (However, personal experience never fails, so therefore it must be true.) Or #2 We fail to see the connection between both truths. Since truth cannot contradict truth, when looking at a moral issue, perhaps we fail to see how the two pieces of the puzzle fit together?:)
If your neighbor steals from you, he takes away your right to your own property.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
If your neighbor is gay, what right of yours does that take away?
In fact, if you prohibit him from marrying and having the same legal rights as you, then YOU are actually taking away his rights.
See the difference?
How can someone compare being fat to being gay?? Being fat is just who someone is. Some people mihgt say being gay is just who someone is I'm not that someone. Being gay does not work a gay couple can not have a child. This world started wit a man and a woman and if u ask me that's how its intended to be. If lesbians don't need men why go and buy dildos ha ha and gay men having sex leads to aids that sounds like a great idea. Being gay is a dysfunction in the brain and makes me sick
My husband and I are infertile, and unable to have a child. Does that make us "not work" either? Is being married only about having children?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf69
That's YOUR opinion. MY opinion is that you place your religious views above the rights of other people. Know what? There were people that argued the same sort of thing to promote slavery. They said the reason blacks were slaves was that they were descended from Ham, who looked on his father Noah and laughed at his drunkenness, and that being forced to serve his brothers was God's punishment. So--if that's the case, should be go back to having slaves, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf69
They don't NEED to buy a dildo any more than I, a married woman, NEEDS to have a vibrator. I have one, though, and it enhances my sex life. I can see why lesbians got away from men like YOU, though--you have no idea how much more important a good tongue is than some phallic thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf69
Unprotected sex leads to AIDS. ALL unprotected sex. It doesn't matter if it's homosexual sex or heterosexual sex--AIDS is passed by stupidity, not by homosexuality.
Being stupid is a dysfunction of the brain, too. It makes me sick. Let's round up all those people who have below average intelligence and give them fewer rights because it's a dysfunction of the brain and makes me sick, shall we?
I had to check the calendar to make sure it was 2009, and not 30 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf69
Being gay is not a choice.
Being gay does work, and it has worked since the beginning of man's history.
Gay people do have children the same way anybody else who cannot naturally conceive do, they adopt if they are male. Many females have in vitro.
Sex toys are sex toys, and who cares who uses them for what, gay or straight.
Gay men having sex leads to aids? Here is something to ponder from statistics in Ireland.
Unprotected sex between men and women accounted for the highest number of cases, followed by drug use and sexual contact among homosexuals.
Northern Ireland News - Shadow Of AIDS Cast Over Ireland
The WHO (World Health Organization) considers Ireland's increase in AIDS as epidemic. (just Google AIDS epidemic in Ireland for 344,000 pages of information on that topic.
As to mental illness, Homophobia (fear of homosexuals) is one. Here are 1,390,000 hits on that topic alone.
fear of homosexuals - Google Search
I truly hope you attempt to educate yourself. Your ignorance is alarming.
They only gave percentages.
300 % increase in a small number is still a small number:
For example:
If group A had 10 case last year a 300 % increase means 40 cases.
If group B had 100 cases and a 50 % increase, that means 50 new cases.
Also, 42% were born in subsahara - HIV is transmitted heterosexually more so than in western countries.
It is intolerant because your teaching your children to be bias.
Chuck, you never said if you see the difference. I'm curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Fact Sheet: HIV/AIDS among Men Who Have Sex with Men | Resources | HIV/AIDS and Men Who Have Sex with Men (MSM) | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS
Quote:
In the United States, HIV infection and AIDS have had a tremendous effect on men who have sex with men (MSM). MSM accounted for 71% of all HIV infections among male adults and adolescents in 2005 (based on data from 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting), even though only about 5% to 7% of male adults and adolescents in the United States identify themselves as MSM [1, 2].
Homophobia a made up pretend word by the liberals to try and make normal moral people who are against homosexual behavior sound like something bad.
The fact is, it is a joke, I laugh when anyone tries to use the word seriously. In fact the entire world used to be that, and should be proud to do so. So are they scared of them, no of course not, exact fear that they will force their beliefs upon the majority of the US though court action
Fear, yes that the moral society which is already in the gutter will go on down the draim.
See the difference, yes I see a big difference between a right and a sexual preference and desire.
There is no special protection or right for sexual preference or gender issues. The right to be protected from thefts is one thing,
But everyone has the same right to get married, they may marry someone of the opposite sex, everyone has that right,
And everyone has the same restriction of not with someone of the same sex. So everyone is equal. What they want is their speical right,
I said this many years ago, when it all started, and people laughed at me when I warned about this sexual movement, they want this now, and more down the road, to destroy the fabric of marriage, and society.
And without even having to quote the CDC, 100% of all unplanned pregnancies are between heterosexual couples. That accounts for 100% of all abortions, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
So if being gay is bad because it spreads AIDS, then being straight is bad because it causes abortions.
Well, statistics aside, increases are alarming, and my point was, right in everybody's back yard, no portion of the population is exempt.
That it is not restricted to homosexuals, was the simple point I was trying to make to the original poster.
I don't think it would make a dent anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Ahhh... but is not abortion a "choice." And that choice could and should be made for LIFE.
Are you implying that homosexual acts are choices?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another thing, in my post you are referring to, there is no moralizing about sexual preference.
Even the CDC does not use the term homosexuals or heterosexuals but MSM [men having sex with men ].
And yes statistics are based on facts, not opinions.
G&P
People that are gay are born gay, people who are retarted are born that way, and do you do you tell your children people with special needs is a wrong way of life. If you fell in love with someone and your mother or father told you not to marry them because they don't like them would that bother you? Your not involved in someone's love life to care weather they want to marry each other or not. Gay people are just like everyone else they sleep eat work cry laugh love and everything else. So why be against them? Why point fingers. Its not a big issue
Abortion is a choice. Having unprotected sex is a CHOICE. Whether one is a homosexual is NOT a choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
My statistics were based on facts, too. I was just pointing out that statistics don't mean CRAP, because you can twist them to mean whatever you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
So statistics from the CDC are crap?
G&P
I'm saying that what people take the statistics to MEAN is crap.
So male-to-male sex is the most common way to pass AIDS--so what? Female-to-Female sex is the LEAST common way to spread AIDS sexually.
HIV/AIDS and Women | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS
So two women should be able to get married before a man and a woman should, by those statistics?
Your statistics are crap because they only say the part you WANT them to say, not the whole story.
Perhaps if male/male relationships were more accepted by society, there would be more openness about homosexual relationships in general, and therefore more stable relationships among homosexuals, rather than clandestine sexual meetings and nothing more, which would cut down on the male-to-male AIDS transmission.
Statistics tell only PART of any story--and usually only the part that the person quoting the statistics wants to say.
Again--I gave you perfectly accurate statistics as well, about abortion. There's not a single abortion out there that was because of a gay marriage. Granted, the CDC is a respected scientific community, but can you really say that my statistics are inaccurate?
So--if my statistics are as accurate as the CDC's, then what does that say about statistics in general?
Basically--what the hell is your point? Should people with AIDS not be allowed to get married? Or just anyone that has had unprotected sex, therefore putting others at risk for any STD?
Or is it just gay men that can't get married, because somehow that thought sickens you, and you're hiding behind the AIDS argument because it's convenient?
I was originally replying to an assertion that hiv is transmitted via heterosexual sex as easily as it is among homosexual sex.
This is true in subsaharan Africa, not the USA.
I NEVER made risk for hiv or aids a litmus test for marriage.
Maybe you might , but I don't.
G&P
I support civil unions but I think marriage should be between a man and a woman. I have no problem with gay people, I know several of them.
That is why I do not like conformed religion they bend everything around a book that man wrote, oh and also I don't like a religion that gives birth to biggots and hypocrites... people who drink and do drugs and cuss like sailors all week long think that one day athe e and of the week makes up for it I know this from experience I watch people that I know... I used to be christian until I found out that most are worse than the non christian people gossipping all the time and back stabbers I would rather be a sinner and a good person that be saved and be horribleQuote:
Originally Posted by excon
What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality take a look all christians and curious others please
Thank you liz I was wondering what kind of response I would get
Being against gays IS being intorerant because you you are not tolerant of gays. Teaching children that it is wrong to be gay is wrong. People should believe in what they want not what their parents want. If they agree with you enforce what they believe, but don't brainwash them into believing what you want them to. I don't know why people who are against gays even care! I can't stand people who protest against people they don't even know that are doing nothing wrong. Why do they care that gays they don't even know are getting married? Just because they they think it's sinful? It's like protesting it front of a house with a couple that cheated on each other. You would be knocking on half of all the world's doors. Why bother?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitelight198073
Kind of oxymoronic there ;)
It is religion that makes someone think they are better than another when they are not.
Are you not doing the same thing?
I have no problem saying I am a sinner, I am not perfect, and never will be in this lifetime.
A true church is basically a sinners anonymous meeting with all declaring dependence, trust, and love for God.
Oh, by the way, that includes sins other than homosexuality. :)
G&P
Nitelight I agree with everything you said and like the link.
You know I dislike the most about people? People who say "I have no problems with gay, I even know some, I support civil unions but marriage is only between man and woman". I think that is a contradiction.
My friend is a Christian and she is a pastor in NC. She is a lesbian and been together 11 years with her partner. They got marriage and recently adopted twins.
Now I have another friend that is Christian and he is totally against my other friend. He judges her because she is a lesbian and a pastor and swears she is damn to hell.
Now my other friend, that is the lesbian, accepts everyone in her church without judgement and the sweetest person you know and a friend you can count on. A lot of people, especially people in her own religion, doesn't accept her but she doesn't let them get under her skin nor pay them any mind for that matter. I am proud of her.
The gay communication have to deal with a lot on a day to day basic but I must say they all have tough skin and stick together. When I go to Gay Pride day, I've so much fun and laughs with them so that is why I go there every year to support them and to have a fun time.
No, that's not a contradiction, those people are saying they're tolerant. According to that sentence, those people may not dislike gay couples, but that doesn't mean they want them take part in the "exclusivity" of marriage.Quote:
Originally Posted by liz28
The misnomer is tolerance means respect or admiration, and it doesn't, not even close. People like that tolerate their existence only.
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