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Originally Posted by paraclete

Islam does deny Jesus, it relegates him to being a Prophet of lesser status than Mudhatmad. Show me the miracles Mudhutmad did, You cannot, show me where the Koran says Mudhutmad is coming again you cannot, and yet Muslims believe Jesus will come again. How confused can you be? Jesus proclaimed himself to be God, not once but many times and yet you don't believe in him. Don't tell me the Islamic God is the same as the Christian God. It is an untruth, a deception. Be honest about your belief

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Think about it, don't Christians believe that Jesus is God on Earth... as in God came to Earth in the form of Jesus the man?

So Christians do not believe that Jesus was "simply" God and that God really "physically" died and thus did "not exist" for a while... They just believe that Jesus was "God taking a body on Earth". So in the end, Paraclete, I have shown the errors in your way of thinking. What I have shown you is that in the end BOTH Islam and Christians believe in the SAME God, but the difference lies that Muslims don't believe that God took the body of a Male on Earth. Muslims think that Jesus was just the Messiah (Prophet) that God "sent".

Do you understand?

Also, by you saying "Show me the miracles Mudhutmad did, You cannot, show me where the Koran says Mudhutmad is coming again you cannot, and yet Muslims believe Jesus will come again. How confused can you be?" - hahaha. What sort of logic is this? This does not prove anything? What are you saying even? I thought Christians were famous for saying "The Lord works in mysterious ways". There are many things that God has done that people cannot explain in the bible, like God creating the world in 6 days and resting on the 7th, or how exactly did God get a virgin to become pregnant? You seem to be cruel and mock what another religion believes and think it is okay for the reasoning of your own religion to be "mysterious". This is prejudice (and I hope it's not on purpose).

One more thing, it's funny how you don't mention Jews here. It shows a lot about why you single out Muslims. Anyway, Jews don't believe the Messiah (Jesus) has even come at all. So I guess they don't believe in "God", according to your logic? So I guess the next thing you are going to say is that the Jews are Godless? "!"

I don't think they are being racist, I think they are just saying they believe something and if you believe something else you don't count.
Race has nothing to do with that attitude.

Stay in peace

You're right it's not racist, but it's prejudice (and I hope not intentional).

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Islam does deny Jesus, it relegates him to being a Prophet of lesser status than Mudhatmad. Show me the miracles Mudhutmad did, You cannot, show me where the Koran says Mudhutmad is coming again you cannot, and yet Muslims believe Jesus will come again. How confused can you be? Jesus proclaimed himself to be God, not once but many times and yet you don't believe in him. Don't tell me the Islamic God is the same as the Christian God. It is an untruth, a deception. Be honest about your belief

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It is not right to say Islam "denies" Jesus (alaihi salaam), we believe in the fact that he was sent by God as His messenger and we also believe Jesus (alaihi salaam) will descend at the end of times and establish justice on earth during his time.
We believe in the miracle birth of Jesus and that Mary was a virgin.

The thing is that we believe Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be the last and final messenger and Prophet of Allah, but the fact is that he did not bring the message of a new religion, but we believe it has been the same message of One God.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam...nceptions.html
Misconception 5
Islam rejects Jesus because:
Jesus is not accepted as `the Son of God'

The Qur'an and Sunnah both teach us emphatically and without any doubt that the Creator considers the statement of the Trinity to be a great falsehood. The Qur'an states (translation):
[19:88-93] They say: "(Allah) the Most Merciful has begotten a son!" Indeed you have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they should invoke a son for (Allah) the Most Merciful. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) the Most Merciful that He should beget a son: Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) the Most Merciful as a servant.

However, the misconception that Jesus is rejected does not follow from the reason given above. It is more precise to say that identifying Jesus as `the Son of God' is rejected. As a Messenger of Allah, Jesus is accorded the same honor that all the Messengers are given, as the following verse attests to (translation),
[2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have surrendered. [Arabic "Muslimoon"]

They do all possibly worship the same god, I reckon the core differences are
Interpretaion of gods word
Holy texts
Status and identity of the messiah
Customs, traditions and practices
Maybe we need to consider the possibility that none of the 3 religions are the "right" religion.
Maybe all 3 have things wrong with their perception of god and things right with their perception of god.

Firmbeliever I honestly respect your beliefs, but to belief in God is not to pick what to belief concerning His Word, but to also belief that He has died and risen, if this was'nt true I would have not said it, God bless you !

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Originally Posted by Marily

Firmbeliever i honestly respect your beliefs, but to belief in God is not to pick and choose what to belief concerning His Word, but to also belief that He has died and risen, if this was'nt true i would have not said it, God bless you !

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Not to argue
But if I believed that jesus died for our sins and will rise again and forgive us I wouldn't be a muslim, would I?
I believe in each one being judged for their own deeds, I believe that each human must be punished or rewarded for what each one does and God is the only judge not a human or a half human or half God etc.

Do you believe that God said that we should be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ? If not, could you state why? ;)

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Not to argue
But if I believed that jesus died for our sins and will rise again and forgive us I wouldnt be a muslim, would I?
I believe in each one being judged for their own deeds, I believe that each human must be punished or rewarded for what each one does and God is the only judge not a human or a half human or half God etc.

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A Muslum is someone who follows the will of God. It says in the Holy Quor'an that Jews, Christians and followers of Islam that follow the will of Allah (God) are Muslums.
Jesus was a Muslum so was Moses and all the other Prophets. May they rest in peace.

I'm curious... where does it states that Jesus was a muslim? I never knew this.

Many places in the Quor'an he is held in high esteem by anyone who is a true Muslum.

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Originally Posted by cal823

maybe we need to consider the possibility that none of the 3 religions are the "right" religion.
maybe all 3 have things wrong with their perception of god and things right with their perception of god.

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You're onto something here. This idea that there is, and necessarily must be, one and only one TRUE religion is at the core of all religious bigotry and holy wars. From my own experience I can testify that giving it up takes nothing essential away from the life of the Spirit, and allows many new bounties to come into it. Try it! You'll like it!

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Originally Posted by Marily

I'm curious... where does it states that Jesus was a muslim? I never knew this.

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Marily,
Have you read the entire Quran?If you haven't then you will not find it (unless it is written in the bibles, which I cannot say as I have not read them).

And about being baptized in the name of Jesus(alaihi salaam)----we never use the name of any messenger or prophet when we begin anything,
All muslims use the phrase "Bismillahi rahmani raheem" meaning "In the name of Allah the Most beneficient, the most merciful" whenever we begin anything even "baptizing" ( if by baptizing you meant the naming of the child?)

Muslim in a simple sense could just mean following the God of Abraham (the monolithic God).
Like it doesn't mean that during that time, Marily, Jesus went around saying "I am Muslim". Muslim is more a concept than anything (and should be an action rather than a name to call onself), just like "Good" is a concept. Muslim is a newer word that basically has the same root meaning as older words that are categorized with "Follower of God".
Do you understand?
I hope you can follow this example: I bet a really good Jewish person who does not lie, who attempts to be free of sin, etc... you could see them as being "MORE CHRISTIAN" than someone "who claims they are Christian yet molests Children". Do you get it? They are more Christian than the one who actually says they are Christian (in the case I just provided). Anyway Marily, heaven is for people who are good, and not people who label themselves as Christians or Muslim or Jewish, because as history and current events show, people who, for example, call themselves followers of Christ are raping children in Churches... SO it isn't about what we say we are, but it is about what we actually do and how we actually live our life. In the end it doesn't matter if you call yourself Christian... God will never send someone to heaven for just "being Christian" but God will send people to heaven for SHOWING THEY are Christian. And in the end "showing you are christian" is the same as being Jewish and Muslim (in the sense that you must be good to your fellow human being, you should not lie, you should not gossip, etc".
I think this was what was meant by someone saying "Jesus was Musilm". This doesn't mean that Jesus went around saying he was "Muslim". Just like, during that time that Jesus came, his followers NEVER SAID "We are Christian". The term Christianity came much later to place on those people back in the day. Do you get it?

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Originally Posted by Dreamer10

Muslim in a simple sense could just mean following the God of Abraham (the monolithic God).
Like it doesn't mean that during that time, Marily, Jesus went around saying "I am Muslim". Muslim is more a concept than anything (and should be an action rather than a name to call onself), just like "Good" is a concept. Muslim is a newer word that basically has the same root meaning as older words that are categorized with "Follower of God".
Do you understand?
I hope you can follow this example: I bet a really good Jewish person who does not lie, who attempts to be free of sin, etc... you could see them as being "MORE CHRISTIAN" than someone "who claims they are Christian yet molests Children". Do you get it? They are more Christian than the one who actually says they are Christian (in the case I just provided). Anyway Marily, heaven is for people who are good, and not people who label themselves as Christians or Muslim or Jewish, because as history and current events show, people who, for example, call themselves followers of Christ are raping children in Churches... SO it isn't about what we say we are, but it is about what we actually do and how we actually live our life. In the end it doesn't matter if you call yourself Christian...God will never send someone to heaven for just "being Christian" but God will send people to heaven for SHOWING THEY are Christian. And in the end "showing you are christian" is the same as being Jewish and Muslim (in the sense that you must be good to your fellow human being, you should not lie, you should not gossip, etc".

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Hi Dreamer10,
Thanks for clearing up some misunderstandings!

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ceptofgod.html

A "Muslim" is "one who submits to Allah." The essence of Islam is pure, pure, pure monotheism. Allah says in the Qur'an (translated):

[112:1-4] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the One on whom all depend; He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none comparable to Him.
[3:144] Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many Were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will you then turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

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It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him.

Thank you for you time trying to explain your religion, but with all due respect I don't think that heaven is only for good people but for holy ghost filled people, there are people that will go through the tribulation that will also be in heaven , that is another story altogether. You asked me if I get it? Yes I do, you are a muslim and I'm a christian :) Salaam

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Originally Posted by Marily

Thankyou for you time trying to explain your religion, but with all due respect i dont think that heaven is only for good people but for holy ghost filled people, there are people that will go through the tribulation that will also be in heaven ,
Yes i do, you are a muslim and im a christian :) Salaam

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If you meant I am a muslim?Yes I am but I am not very sure if Dreamer10 is, Are you a muslim Dreamer10?

Marily,
About the tribulations you mentioned for some who goes to heaven later,
We muslims too believe there will be believers and good doers who will enter Hell for a period and then will be admitted to Heaven by the mercy of the Almighty.
We also believe in the punishment of the grave for almost all (not the physical grave we see and touch) and that some people receive this as punishment and also maybe saved from the Hellfire because of the punishment of the grave by the mercy of the Almighty.

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Originally Posted by Marily

Thankyou for you time trying to explain your religion, but with all due respect i dont think that heaven is only for good people but for holy ghost filled people, there are people that will go through the tribulation that will also be in heaven , that is another story altogether. You asked me if i get it? Yes i do, you are a muslim and im a christian :) Salaam

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Marily, I am Christian too. Surprise! Are you saying that I am not one? I AM AND YOU CANNOT TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME! Please Marily, be open-minded. Once upon a time some people started to bravely say that "the Earth is NOT FLAT", there were Christians telling those that believed this that " I get it, you are not Christian, but I am, since I believe the Earth is flat".

I think I made my point.

Marily disagrees: With that type of anger one cannot go far, and the colour of my skin has got nothing to do with anything, the Lord made me like that and guess what... I'm beautifull, don't you know that when one get angry that it is actually a spirit that gets hold




You, Marily, are very sneaky because now you have made it look as if I was being racist. That is a sad attempt at trying to sound "right" by lying and making people believe that I could possibly be saying something racist to you? Plus by doing this... you try very hard to take away from any of the logic I have shown. This is wrong, deceptive, and a very last try at working to get people to not listen to others... through manipulation. Why are you doing this?

I think you should re-read what I wrote and get this clear: "Back in the day" as I said "There were Christians that did not accept people due to their skin color, but then there were some that did not care what race people were". I showed you that there were Christians with different beliefs. And then I used the example that many Christians called those who thought the Earth was not flat "non-Christians"

So, I was showing you that you are calling me a non-Christian because my Christian beliefs are not identical to yours. I was using the example of the past where it has been proven that those who thought they were totally right (like Christians who declared others were non Christian for thinking the world was round), are wrong today. You see? I was showing you that you cannot say with a closed-mind that I am not Christian.

But then why should I try and communicate this with you when you have clearly taken a scarey twist to this and tried to manipulatively make people think I was being racist against you. Your reasoning is not a very healthy one here. Go back and read the post. I forgive you and you know what, I am going to pray for you too.

You got angry at me for nothing and now you are trying to put the blame on me, that won't work. It has come to a point that your comments have no value to me. If I were you I would have pray for revelation on who Christ is . Oh and please don't PM me again.