Ask Me Help Desk - My post was closed.

My post was closed.

Because I asked a question... part of pertaining to something that I DIDN'T KNOW was illegal. That's fine if you don't want to help me figure out that part. But is Trillian illegal? I need help knowing why programs that I am downloading are not working...

Did you bother to read my response?

Yes I did... And I did not understand it.

You freely admit to acquiring this program via a P2P application.
This is breach of copyright.

Now as I said AMHD will NOT advise in anyway if P2P is involved.

If you like a program, rather than STEALING it, go and pay for it, like the rest of us.

FYI Limewire is so full of viruses, trojans and other malware as to be completely unusable.
It is also closly monitored by various Government agencies.

Trillian has a free component. Here is their tech support area: Cerulean Studios -> Trillian Help & Support Center

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlyben

You freely admit to acquiring this program via a P2P application.
This is breach of copyright.

Now as I said AMHD will NOT advise in anyway if P2P is involved.

If you like a program, rather than STEALING it, go and pay for it, like the rest of us.

FYI Limewire is so full of viruses, trojans and other malware as to be completely unusable.
It is also closly monitored by various Government agencies.

With all due respect, I read over all the messages on both threads and I cannot find anything which suggested that she illegally downloaded a program. There is also a great deal of software available both as Freeware and as Shareware which does not require payment (in some cases there are restrictions, in other cases not).

I think that the warnings against use of P2P programs are well placed, and I also understand why AMHD would not support the use of P2P type software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

With all due respect, I read over all the messages on both threads and I cannot find anything which suggested that she illegally downloaded a program. There is also a great deal of software available both as Freeware and as Shareware which does not require payment (in some cases there are restrictions, in other cases not).

She asked about getting Limewire to work on her PC, that is not something we are prepare to help with due to its overwhelming use for pirating.

The is indeed a plethora of open source/freeware available out there and I'm a big fan of such software - those programs are available from the developers' website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

She asked about getting Limewire to work on her PC, that is not something we are prepare to help with due to its overwhelming use for pirating.

I have no issue with that. I was just reacting to the comment that suggested that she was stealing software. I did not see any justification for that comment.

I guess Ben was generalizing. If it's not the case then the OP can perhaps let us know for what purpose she intended to use Limewire.

You did mention downloading two programs and not being able to get them to install. One was Limewire which we do not support, the other was Trillian. We should help with that, so I suggest you start a new thread for Trillian install help

Limewire is offered for free via Free Software Downloads and Software Reviews - Download.com

I was under the impression that only file sharing was illegal. I don't do that, I download a song, burn it, and delete it.

I'm not trying to rude here, I am trying to get correct information and possibly some help..

I don't want to start a new thread, perhaps in here I can get assistance as to how to make trillian work for me.

Hi you how did you know that it was closed I think one of my posts was closed how do you find out?

It SAYS "post closed" in big read letter at the bottom of a moderator or administrator's last post... and you can no longer add to this post.

Oh mine did not do that it just vanished!

That means that it was deleted or moved to the appropriate category.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

I was under the impression that only file sharing was illegal. I don't do that, I download a song, burn it, and delete it.

That's filesharing and that's piracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

I was under the impression that only file sharing was illegal. I don't do that, I download a song, burn it, and delete it.

I'm not trying to rude here, I am trying to get correct information and possibly some help..

You've been giving the correct information and you are really being naïve if you think that downloading a song and burning it is NOT file sharing. File sharing involves two parts, the person who makes the file available and the person who download it. If you are downloading songs that are being sold in stores without paying for them, do you really think that's OK? Or did you not want to think about it because you were getitng free music? If you had recorded a song and were trying to sell it, but people were just giving it away to anyone who wanted it, wouldn't you be upset that you were losing money?

Unfortunately, you are not alone. There are loads of unwitting pirates out there that use all sorts of rationalizations to justify stealing music and other copyrighted works. Yes I said STEALING because that's what getting something without paying for it or without permission is. But all those rationalizations are just people trying to deny what they know down deep.
Try reading that link I put in the other thread. Try googling RIAA sues pirates and see what you get.

Now if you are an honest person, you will take every CD with a track that you have pirated and literally burn the CDs (as in melt them).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

You've been giving the correct information and you are really being naive if you think that downloading a song and burning it is NOT file sharing. File sharing involves two parts, the person who makes the file available and the person who download it. If you are downloading songs that are being sold in stores without paying for them, do you really think that's OK? Or did you not want to think about it because you were getitng free music? If you had recorded a song and were trying to sell it, but people were just giving it away to anyone who wanted it, wouldn't you be upset that you were losing money?

Unfortunately, you are not alone. There are loads of unwitting pirates out there that use all sorts of rationalizations to justify stealing music and other copyrighted works. Yes I said STEALING because that's what getting something without paying for it or without permission is. But all those rationalizations are just people trying to deny what they know down deep.
Try reading that link I put in the other thread. Try googling RIAA sues pirates and see what you get.

Now if you are an honest person, you will take every CD with a track that you have pirated and literally burn the CDs (as in melt them).

Scott,

I would like to note although it is illegal in the US, it is not currently illegal in Canada to do what she is doing. In Canada pay royalties on all media such as CDs (but not harddrives) to cover the cost of songs which are copied or downloaded.

The only reason I mention this is that it is not fair to make a general comment that downloading music in this fashion is stealing or illegal. It is indeed illegal and stealing to do it in the US and no doubt in other countries, but there are many Canadians on here who are under a different copyright regime.

Since she is in the US, clearly your advice is appropriate for her, but it does not apply to all who are reading this thread.

Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Scott,

I would like to note although it is illegal in the US, it is not currently illegal in Canada to do what she is doing. In Canada pay royalties on all media such as CDs (but not harddrives) to cover the cost of songs which are copied or downloaded.

Actually that`s incorrect. Canadians are still open to copyright infringement. The levy is very well explained here:
Private copying levy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference between the US and Canada is regards to the prosecution of such matters lies in our stronger personal information privacy laws. Currently if the RIAA or the CRIA asks an ISP for session information (who was using this IP at this specific time) based their gathering of IPs the ISP does not have to release that information. Recent laws in the US have made ISPs weary of fighting for the privacy of their users and so cave in at the slightest demand for information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Scott,

I would like to note although it is illegal in the US, it is not currently illegal in Canada to do what she is doing. In Canada pay royalties on all media such as CDs (but not harddrives) to cover the cost of songs which are copied or downloaded.

You have a valid point. This sounds similar to the compromise reached when the MPAA sued the makers of VCRs.

However, I can't imagine that a few cents per CD truly compensates for the loss of income from not paying for tracks. And how many Canadiens buy disks in bulk from Internet sources, thereby bypassing this surcharge.

Checking out NK's link there is this passage:

In conjunction with the levy, the Copyright Act allows individuals to make copies of sound recordings for their own private, non-commercial use. They may not distribute the copy.

This would still make the downloading copies made by others illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

You have a valid point. This sounds similar to the compromise reached when the MPAA sued the makers of VCRs.

However, I can't imagine that a few cents per CD truly compensates for the loss of income from not paying for tracks. And how many Canadiens buy disks in bulk from Internet sources, thereby bypassing this surcharge.

Frankly, it just sounds to me like Canada is legalizing piracy.

See my post above yours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually that`s incorrect. Canadians are still open to copyright infringement. The levy is very well explained here:
Private copying levy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference between the US and Canada is regards to the prosecution of such matters lies in our stronger personal information privacy laws. Currently if the RIAA or the CRIA asks an ISP for session information (who was using this IP at this specific time) based their gathering of IPs the ISP does not have to release that information. Recent laws in the US have made ISPs weary of fighting for the privacy of their users and so cave in at the slightest demand for information.

You should be careful about using wikipedia as a factual source. Here is a quote from a Canadian Government website on copyright law:

-------------
Not infringement:
Quoting a few lines of the article in a research paper (fair dealing);

Playing records at home;

Giving a public performance of a play by Shakespeare (no copyright exists/public domain);

Obtaining permission from the author and paying a fee to him or her (if requested) in order to use an article; and

borrowing a musical tape from a friend to copy onto a blank tape for private use (a royalty payment to the owner of the song rights has been paid when the blank tape was purchased).
-----------------
Source: CIPO - A Guide to Copyrights: Copyright Protection

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

You have a valid point. This sounds similar to the compromise reached when the MPAA sued the makers of VCRs.

However, I can't imagine that a few cents per CD truly compensates for the loss of income from not paying for tracks. And how many Canadiens buy disks in bulk from Internet sources, thereby bypassing this surcharge.

Checking out NK's link there is this passage:

In conjunction with the levy, the Copyright Act allows individuals to make copies of sound recordings for their own private, non-commercial use. They may not distribute the copy.

This would still make the downloading copies made by others illegal.

NK is wrong - see my quote from the Canadian Gov't website explaining the exemptions from copyright law below.

I live in Canada and have been following this fairly closely over the years. There have been discussions about making changes to this, but time will tell if that happens. Certainly there are those in the industry who are not happy with this provision is the law, but until chnages are in fact made and in force, copying remaining legal.

My apologies, I totally added the wrong link:
Canadian copyright levy on blank audio recording media

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

borrowing a musical tape from a friend to copy onto a blank tape for private use (a royalty payment to the owner of the song rights has been paid when the blank tape was purchased).

I'm not sure that covers the free-for-all filesharing world where the originator has not purchased the original material or media.

I agree with NK here. I agree the Canadian law is trying to decriminalize someone letting a friend make a copy of media they purchase. I think it's a different animal to making a copy and putting it on a site for dozens of strangers to copy. Or for stangers to just grab copies for free.

All right, I get the point, I will not download Limewire... I have yet to get any advice with Trillian, I went to the link provided. And read there, nothing helped... Is my computer just retarded?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I'm not sure that covers the free-for-all filesharing world where the originator has not purchased the original material or media.

There are two sides to the activity. The person sharing and the person copying. What we have been discussing, and what the topic was about, was downloading and copying for personal use.

Did you try here?

Cerulean Studios: Creators of Trillian and Trillian Pro Instant Messengers

This is the download site for Trillian

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

My apologies, I totally added the wrong link:
Canadian copyright levy on blank audio recording media

Note this quote from that site:

-------------
... unless the legislation is changed or the courts interpret matters differently, it appears that making a private copy for your own use of a musical work downloaded in any manner from the internet is not an infringement of copyright. In their decision, the Copyright Board states:

The regime does not address the source of the material copied. There is no requirement in Part VIII that the source copy be a non-infringing copy. Hence, it is not relevant whether the source of the track is a pre-owned recording, a borrowed CD, or a track downloaded from the Internet.
-------------

To be fair, I should repeat - this applies only to Canada. Downloading in the US is still illegal. And this applies only when the copying is done to certain types of media in Canada where the copyright fee is applied.

Thanks to everyone that turned this post into LIMEWIRE and PIRATING as well, I was asking for help on Trillian, and I have dropped the subject of Limewire.

I repeat...

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Did you try here?

Cerulean Studios: Creators of Trillian and Trillian Pro Instant Messengers

This is the download site for Trillian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Note this quote from that site:

-------------
.........unless the legislation is changed or the courts interpret matters differently, it appears that making a private copy for your own use of a musical work downloaded in any manner from the internet is not an infringement of copyright. In their decision, the Copyright Board states:

The regime does not address the source of the material copied. There is no requirement in Part VIII that the source copy be a non-infringing copy. Hence, it is not relevant whether the source of the track is a pre-owned recording, a borrowed CD, or a track downloaded from the Internet.
-------------

To be fair, I should repeat - this applies only to Canada. Downloading in the US is still illegal. And this applies only when the copying is done to certain types of media in Canada where the copyright fee is applied.

Hmmm... I wonder if the judge would allow that argument:
"Your honour, yes I have downloaded 10,000 songs form the internet but it's ok, I bought two blank DVDs for $1.29 so the levy I pay absolves me from any royalty payments." :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

Thanks to everyone that turned this post into LIMEWIRE and PIRATING as well, I was asking for help on Trillian, and I have dropped the subject of Limewire.

Actually it's a good thread. I gave you the tech support site for Trillian. It would appear that it's not used a great deal by the members here so your best bet is contacting them for the problem you are having with their product (I assume you got it from their site).

Also you learned that downloading songs from P2P is indeed illegal and we have possibly saved you from being sued by the RIAA. It's all good. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

Thanks to everyone that turned this post into LIMEWIRE and PIRATING as well, I was asking for help on Trillian, and I have dropped the subject of Limewire.

This is why I suggested starting a new thread. You need to attract people familiar with Trillian and you need to detail what you have tried and what happens when you try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

There are two sides to the activity. The person sharing and the person copying. What we have been discussing, and what the topic was about, was downloading and copying for personal use.

Ok, so your contention is that it is the person sharing who is breaking the law but the person taking advantage of that sharing is blameless (at least under Canadian law).

Whether that is true or not, there is a large issue here and that is one of ethics. Lets take a different scenario. A person robs a bank. In the course of trying to getaway, the robber empties a bag of money causing a mob scene that blocks the police from pursuing. The mob grabs up the money dumped out. Is it legal for the members of the mob to keep that money? After all they didn't steal it from the bank? I think the courts would rule that they have no right to keep that money.

A person downloading songs that were illegally distributed is, in my humble opinion as guilty of piracy as the person who made the song available. Even if the laws won't allow prosecution its still an unethical thing to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Hmmm...I wonder if the judge would allow that argument:
"Your honour, yes I have downloaded 10,000 songs form the internet but it's ok, I bought two blank DVDs for $1.29 so the levy I pay absolves me from any royalty payments." :D

This is not a matter of whether you agree with the law, it is a matter that that is what the law says and how the courts have interpreted it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Ok, so your contention is that it is the person sharing who is breaking the law but the person taking advantage of that sharing is blameless (at least under Canadian law).

Whether that is true or not, there is a large issue here and that is one of ethics. Lets take a different scenario. A person robs a bank. In the course of trying to getaway, the robber empties a bag of money causing a mob scene that blocks the police from pursuing. The mob grabs up the money dumped out. Is it legal for the members of the mob to keep that money? After all they didn't steal it from the bank? I think the courts would rule that they have no right to keep that money.

A person downloading songs that were illegally distributed is, in my humble opinion as guilty of piracy as the person who made the song available. Even if the laws won't allow prosecution its still an unethical thing to do.

Scott,

This is not a matter of what my contention is, nor what you opinion is. I responded because there were comments about the legalities of downloading, and that refers to what the law states, not what personal opinions are. To validate this, I provide the legal opinion of the office of the government of Canada responsible for this area of law.

What I stated therefore is the law in Canada, and how it is both written and interpreted by the courts.

As for ethics, I have no doubt that a vigorous debate result, but the issue brought forward was not ethics, but rather it was stated that downloading was illegal. My response was specific to that point.

Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

This is not a matter of whether you agree with the law, it is a matter that that is what the law says and how the courts have interpreted it.

Dude, I married with a lawyer, I know it's all about interpretation... and precedents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Dude, I married with a lawyer, I know it's all about interpretation...and precedents.

Yes indeed. That was my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

I repeat....

Yes, I tried there... there was no help on why it wouldn't work...