>Multiple Threads Merged<

I am speaking on behalf of my parent who my father is from HongKong and holds a British Passport and mother from Malaysia who also holds a British Passport.
I was born in Malaysia in 1994 to a single mother, while my father was currently going through a divorce. After a few years, the divorce was successful which he then proceeded in marrying my mother in 1998.

So what nationality does this make me from birth?

I am currently applying for Permanent I.D in Hong Kong and need to clear up that I am a 'Chinese Citizen'.

Please, if anyone can help - I will be very thankful.

You are british; both parents hold British passports, in light of the fact that your father was probably born while China was still under British rule. However, I don't think this jeopardizes you being a 'chinese citizen' as there must have been a change over after that, meaning you are still a chinese citizen.

Here is a website that may explain:

Chineseculture.about.com ›... › Chinese Culture › Law in China

Hong Kong immigration actually classified me as a 'non-chinese' citizen which I am extremely confused about. They argued that because I hold a Malaysian Nationality - and because my dad has become A British citizen as he has 'settled' in the UK therefore he is no longer a 'Chinese Citizen' ?

You didn't say in your original post that your dad 'had become a british citizen', I naturally assumed he was one because China had been under British rule for so long. Sorry, it sounds like a convoluted matter, decision being handed down by Hong Kong immigration, which I cannot refute. I couldn't possibly know the in and outs of their decision making. You also didn't say he was living in the UK.

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Originally Posted by tickle

You didnt say in your original post that your dad 'had become a british citizen', I naturally assumed he was one because China had been under British rule for so long. Sorry, it sounds like a convoluted matter, decision being handed down by Hong Kong immigration, which I cannot refute. I couldnt possibly know the in and outs of their decision making. You also didnt say he was living in the UK.

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Thank you so much for responding.

Yes, he has become a british citizen however, My father is a Chinese Citizen who may have been temporary absent from Hong Kong; However, as specified on the HKSAR Immigration Department website depending on the relevance of his circumstances it will determine if he is an ordinary resident or not.
Even though my father has been temporary absent from Hong Kong due to work purposes and financial issues at the time of my birth, he still remains to have habitual residence in Hong Kong. Hong Kong has been the geographic place he considers “home”.
Does this provide a strong argument stating he is still a Chinese citizen?

Yes, then why not a letter signed by him and a lawyer stating this that you can present. Other then this, I don't know what to suggest. After all, he is still a property holder in Hong Kong, that should make a difference to their decision. This should also be mentioned in the declaration.

Hi,

I was born in Malaysia in 1994 to a single mum with a malaysian nationality. While my father was a Chinese citizen of Hong Kong and holds a Permanent ID card (he was born in Hong Kong)

I currently hold a Malaysian passport and my parents are now married since (1998). However, I am wondering is there any law that states I am able to chose which nationality to follow? Either my father or my mothers after I reach an age of maturity where I can decide? Or am I stuck with my country's of births nationality?

Thank you.

It all depends on which country you decide to settle in when you reach the age of majority. Nationality laws are not what they used to be; some are sanquinuity, meaning of course, by blood, others are a stipulation of permanent residence and fluency in the language of that country. Many laws have changed since the last war.

So to answer your question, no, you don't have a choice until you decide to settle, but since you are, what asian, then right now you are bound by your parents nationality.

What is wrong with your current status, it may suit you when you become a mature adult, and right now you don't know what yours allows you, that may change in the future.

My son is a dual citizen of Canada and the US, presently residing in Germany. His Canadian passport allows him to travel just about any where in the world, it is that comprehensive, so what I am saying yours may too one day.

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Originally Posted by tickle

It all depends on which country you decide to settle in when you reach the age of majority. Nationality laws are not what they used to be; some are sanquinuity, meaning of course, by blood, others are a stipulation of permanent residence and fluency in the language of that country. Many laws have changed since the last war.

So to answer your question, no, you dont have a choice until you decide to settle, but since you are, what asian, then right now you are bound by your parents nationality.

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Well that's the thing. My dads and my mums nationality are different so Im wondering by tradition or by law - We follow our fathers nationality? Is that correct... Im not sure?

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Originally Posted by tickle

It all depends on which country you decide to settle in when you reach the age of majority. Nationality laws are not what they used to be; some are sanquinuity, meaning of course, by blood, others are a stipulation of permanent residence and fluency in the language of that country. Many laws have changed since the last war.

So to answer your question, no, you dont have a choice until you decide to settle, but since you are, what asian, then right now you are bound by your parents nationality.

What is wrong with your current status, it may suit you when you become a mature adult, and right now you dont know what yours allows you, that may change in the future.

My son is a dual citizen of Canada and the US, presently residing in Germany. His Canadian passport allows him to travel just about any where in the world, it is that comprehensive, so what I am saying yours may too one day.

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Im currently applying for HKSAR which is Hong Kong's citizenship because its my fathers home and I hope to work there in the future. It will also be a lot more useful if I become a Hong Kong Citizen in terms of working and freedom to stay etc.

It's solely each country's right to determine who is their citizen. Only if a country gives you the right to choose do you have a right to choose. Some forcibly take it away in certain circumstances.

If your father was a Chinese citizen, and he didn't have permanent residency in Malaysia or any other country when you were born, then in theory, according to the Chinese Nationality Law article 5, you are also already a Chinese citizen from birth.

Now, in China, law and practice don't always coincide. Most Chinese incorrectly believe that China "does not recognize dual nationality" means that you cannot have Chinese and another citizenship at the same time, instead of what it actually means -- that the other citizenships are simply not recognized by China. If you ask almost any Chinese they will tell you no, if you have another country's citizenship or passport, you cannot be a Chinese citizen. So in the face of such widespread misunderstanding, you will probably face lots of difficulties in trying to claim that you are a Chinese citizen to Chinese authorities, either at an embassy or in China; especially since you didn't assert it when you were young (due to another misconception that people turning 18 must choose one nationality; there is nothing in Chinese law to support that). Although the authorities in Hong Kong will probably be more understanding.

Assuming that you are a Chinese citizen, the next question is whether you have right of abode in Hong Kong. From this FAQ, it seems that you do from birth, falling into category (c), since you have Chinese nationality, you were born outside Hong Kong to a parent who had right of abode in Hong Kong.

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Originally Posted by newacct

It's solely each country's right to determine who is their citizen. Only if a country gives you the right to choose do you have a right to choose. Some forcibly take it away in certain circumstances.

If your father was a Chinese citizen, and he didn't have permanent residency in Malaysia or any other country when you were born, then in theory, according to the Chinese Nationality Law article 5, you are also already a Chinese citizen from birth.

Now, in China, law and practice don't always coincide. Most Chinese incorrectly believe that China "does not recognize dual nationality" means that you cannot have Chinese and another citizenship at the same time, instead of what it actually means -- that the other citizenships are simply not recognized by China. If you ask almost any Chinese they will tell you no, if you have another country's citizenship or passport, you cannot be a Chinese citizen. So in the face of such widespread misunderstanding, you will probably face lots of difficulties in trying to claim that you are a Chinese citizen to Chinese authorities, either at an embassy or in China; especially since you didn't assert it when you were young (due to another misconception that people turning 18 must choose one nationality; there is nothing in Chinese law to support that). Although the authorities in Hong Kong will probably be more understanding.

Assuming that you are a Chinese citizen, the next question is whether you have right of abode in Hong Kong. From this FAQ, it seems that you do from birth, falling into category (c), since you have Chinese nationality, you were born outside Hong Kong to a parent who had right of abode in Hong Kong.

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Sorry for the late reply and yes my father was a Chinese citizen, and he didn't have permanent residency in Malaysia or any other country when I was born, then in theory, according to the Chinese Nationality Law article 5, you are also already a Chinese citizen from birth. In theory this should be correct.

However, GovHK: Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China
Article 5: Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality. In other words, because I claimed foreign nationality at birth I do not qualify? This is what the immigration office told me, which I found extremely unfair.

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Originally Posted by 118fearless

However, GovHK: Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China
Article 5: Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth shall not have Chinese nationality. In other words, because I claimed foreign nationality at birth I do not qualify? This is what the immigration office told me, which I found extremely unfair.

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Notice the "and". Since the first part ("whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad") is not satisfied (your father did not settle abroad when you were born), the whole thing is not satisfied; the second part is not relevant.

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Originally Posted by newacct

Notice the "and". Since the first part ("whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad") is not satisfied (your father did not settle abroad when you were born), the whole thing is not satisfied; the second part is not relevant.

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Oh! Really?? Are you sure..
I thought it was really unfair of them to actually state that. Is annoying that its so wordy

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Originally Posted by 118fearless

Oh! really??!?! are you sure...?
I thought it was really unfair of them to actually state that. Is annoying that its so wordy

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Well, that is the correct interpretation of both the Chinese and English versions of the law. But how the authorities will interpret it I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by newacct

Well, that is the correct interpretation of both the Chinese and English versions of the law. But how the authorities will interpret it I have no idea.

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Are you also familiar with British immigration Laws?

Though my father was born in Hong Kong and was a British Dependent Territories Citizen before 1 July 1997, my parents got married after 1 July 1997. Therefore, stated by the Hong Kong immigration I would not have acquired the British Dependent Territories Citizenship by descent in accordance with the relevant British Nationality act. However, I actually have acquired a British Passport but I am unsure how I actually would have classified for it; is there a special circumstances that I have met or was it just luck?

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Originally Posted by 118fearless

Are you also familiar with British immigration Laws?

Though my father was born in Hong Kong and was a British Dependent Territories Citizen before 1 July 1997, my parents got married after 1 July 1997. Therefore, stated by the Hong Kong immigration I would not have acquired the British Dependent Territories Citizenship by descent in accordance with the relevant British Nationality act. However, I actually have acquired a British Passport but I am unsure how I actually would have classified for it; is there a special circumstances that I have met or was it just luck?

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I am not familiar with British nationality law. I don't know whether or how you qualify for British nationality.

However, I know that for the purposes of China, your father is considered a Chinese national (see the bottom of that document you linked "2. All Hong Kong Chinese compatriots are Chinese nationals, whether they are holders of the “British Dependent Territories Citizens passport” or “British National (Overseas) passport”.")

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Originally Posted by newacct

I am not familiar with British nationality law. I don't know whether or how you qualify for British nationality.

However, I know that for the purposes of China, your father is considered a Chinese national (see the bottom of that document you linked "2. All Hong Kong Chinese compatriots are Chinese nationals, whether or not they are holders of the “British Dependent Territories Citizens passport” or “British National (Overseas) passport”.")

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Newacct, quit while you still have credibility. We have an immigration expert, but all experts are volunteers here and not always around.

Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship, but it is not that bad. All Malaysian citizens are Commonwealth citizens and are entitled to certain rights in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries.

If you are seeking citizenship through your father, you will be requested to denounce Malaysian citizenship at the age of 18 or at the time you proceed.

There are a lot of details required to determine your case, including details of grandparents and parents' status before and after 1997.

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Originally Posted by newacct

I am not familiar with British nationality law. I don't know whether or how you qualify for British nationality.

However, I know that for the purposes of China, your father is considered a Chinese national (see the bottom of that document you linked "2. All Hong Kong Chinese compatriots are Chinese nationals, whether or not they are holders of the “British Dependent Territories Citizens passport” or “British National (Overseas) passport”.")

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Thank you very much for your replies, I find them extremely helpful. Thank you

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Originally Posted by lawanwadee

Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship, but it is not that bad. All Malaysian citizens are Commonwealth citizens and are entitled to certain rights in the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth countries.

If you are seeking citizenship thru your father, you will be requested to denounce Malaysian citizenship at the age of 18 or at the time you proceed.

There are a lot of details required to determine your case, including details of grandparents and parents' status before and after 1997.

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Can you please elaborate on "you will be requested to denounce Malaysian citizenship" ?
So its up to me (malaysian citizen) to request to denounce my citizenship or do the British immigration office contact Malaysia's immigration office on my behalf?

Where can I find the issue date of my first British passport?
Note: I no longer have a copy of my first passport as I've lost it.

Can I get the information I need by contacting the British Immigration office?

Thank you.

Why do you need the issue date of your first passport? When passport remewal forms refer back to issue date... its generally meant to indicate the issue date of your most recent passport.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Why do you need the issue date of your first passport? When passport remewal forms refer back to issue date...its generally meant to indicate the issue date of your most recent passport.

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So there is no way I can find it again?

I need it as proof of my British Dependent Territories Citizenship by descent in accordance with the relevant British Nationality act. As Im currently in the process of applying for HKID.

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Originally Posted by 118fearless

So there is no way I can find it again?

I need it as proof of my British Dependent Territories Citizenship by descent in accordance with the relevant British Nationality act. As Im currently in the process of applying for HKID.

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OK... that is way different then... they British governemt.. specifically the part that issues passports will have those records... If you do not reside in the UK currently... you should be able to request those records through your Embassy. If you are in the UK now... where you go to get your passport renewed might be able to request such information... of course you will have to prove identity... and a current passport would make this easier.

If you reside outside of the UK... and have not held a passort in years and don't have an expired one... then you can expect a rather difficult task to get this information. THe reason for this is identity fraud. You will have to prove ID through documents issued by the British government... as any outside are subject to possible doctoring or outright forgery as far as they (the British Government) will be concerned.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

OK...that is way different then....they Brittish governemt..specifically the part that issues passports will have those records.... If you do not reside in the UK currently...you should be able to request those records through your Embassy. If you are in the UK now...where you go to get your passport renewed might be able to request such information....of course you will have to prove identity...and a current passport would make this easier.

If you reside outside of the UK....and have not held a passort in years and don't have an expired one...then you can expect a rather difficult task to get this information. THe reason for this is identity fraud. You will have to prove ID through documents issued by the British government...as any outside are subject to possible doctoring or outright forgery as far as they will be concerned.

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Thank you. That's all the information I needed.

What is the difference between Chinese Citizenship and Chinese Nationality?

My father currently has Chinese Citizenship - does that mean he is a Chinese National too?


Thank you

Yes. For most intents and purposes, the two words are synonymous.

I was born in Malaysia in 1994 and I have a Malaysian Passport. I also understand Malaysia does not allow dual nationality.

However, I have ROA in the UK as my father is a British National. Does that effect my dual nationality?

Please stop asking the same question - as you know, we are all volunteers and someone who knows Immigration Law in your situation hasn't come along since you first posted.

I thought your father was a Chinese National - ?

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Please stop asking the same question - as you know, we are all volunteers and someone who knows Immigration Law in your situation hasn't come along since you first posted.

I thought your father was a Chinese National - ?

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He was born in Hong Kong and therefore is a Chinese citizen, and because he was a "British Dependent Territories Citizen" he obtained a British Passport via that route.

Sorry, Im just very impatient - I will wait now.

Its just very confusing as Malaysia states that it doesn't allow dual nationality but a "indefinite leave to remain" stamp on the Malaysian Passport is allowed? (assuming indefinite leave to remain is the same as ROA? Or am I wrong?) and ROA is counted as another citizenship or nationality... which is why Im just confused about as Malaysia is a no dual nationality country.

You have to choose one after you reach the age of 18.

Hi,

I have both a Malaysian and British Passport and Im wondering which passport I should use when Im going into countries such as HongKong or China?

Your british passport would be accepted; but you should carry both.

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Originally Posted by tickle

Your british passport would be accepted; but you should carry both.

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Can I ask why carry both.. I just need to know that the HongKong immigration office wouldn't contact Malaysia that Im using a British Passport to enter their country - for what ever reasons.

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Originally Posted by 118fearless

Can I ask why carry both....? I just need to know that the HongKong immigration office wouldn't contact Malaysia that Im using a British Passport to enter their country - for what ever reasons.

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It is all in the international data base anyway. My son and I are dual citizens do countries and always carry both.

There is no need for them to notify, as I said, we are all on an international database.

So what are you worried about, just take your british passport then?

When was free mobility of labour established for a British National in the EuroZone?
So In what year was a British National able to work in the Eurozone?

What is the definition of "abroad" in immigration Law.

If a person has ROA in two countries, will both of those countries not be considered "abroad"?

This is an International site, and I looked at your posting history in order to determine where you are.

You are asking about the UK?

I notice that you have 7 threads about Immigration.

I have asked that they be combined for ease in answering each of them.

Is this question asking about taxes, work permits, something else? I am reading that you are the citizen of one country. Outside of that country is "abroad."