An issue at our employer seems pretty unfair. Currently when an employee calls off sick or requests a day off, HR automatically gives you an attendance point for calling off and also takes your paid time off you've accumulated. Also, when an employee requests off and uses PTO to cover it, we still end up getting an attendance point. If you get 10 attendance points in a 6 month period, you get terminated.

We, as employees, have no choice or option to not have our PTO taken when we call off sick so we essentially never get any real vacation time. We also can't request days off as that also gives you points that work against you even though they pre-approve your normal requests to use your PTO.

There are federal Dept of Labor laws (for major issues only, such as overtime and civil rights), there are state labor laws, and there is company policy. Companies can be private or government. Companies can have employees in unions or not. Companies don't have to have company policy, but if they do, they need to make it known such as in a handbook, so that they treat people equally.

I suspect that your employer does have the policy you state HR is doing, and that it's legal. PTO is a perk. You didn't work for it. It comes with strings attached. The strings sound very clear.
Since 2007-08, many employers have been losing money, and they cut way back on perks and bennies.
Ask for a copy of the policy.
Also check with your state. Many people don't realize that sick days are not mandated by the gov't, and some states are starting to change that.
But be forewarned that calling in sick isn't what it used to be either. You may have to provide details and proof.

You have whats called combined leave time, I have worked several places like that. You get it all as vacation if you don't call off sick. Not everyone gets sick and a lot of people schedule doctors and dentist visits on Saturdays or before or after work hours. (I've done that for over 20 years) Its your choice how its used. And in the 35 years I've worked... you aren't allowed to take take unpaid time off by choice anyplace I've been employed.

And everyplace I've worked in the last 35 years you can be fired for taking excessive sick time, and have seen it happen to a number of people.

Employers can plan in advance for coverage for scheduled vacations... they get screwed when people call off with no notice too often.

I'm not clear what "calling off" means. But if you are allotted PTO (paid time off?) they should not be allowed to penalize for using it. However, if you are required to give advance notice for using PTO and don't, then it may be reasonable to do so.

Bottom line, if the policy is written and applied to all employees equally, its probably legal. Employers are not required (in the US) to give paid time off at all.

Where is your company based?

It's based out of Cleveland, OH.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I'm not clear what "calling off" means. But if you are allotted PTO (paid time off?) they should not be allowed to penalize for using it. However, if you are required to give advance notice for using PTO and don't, then it may be reasonable to do so.

Bottom line, if the policy is written and applied to all employees equally, its probably legal. Employers are not required (in the US) to give paid time off at all.

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Calling off is essentially calling in sick, having a doctors appointment scheduled, taking a vacation or just wanting to use your PTO. With calling off, 4 days equals one occurrence even if it's PTO or requested vacation time. Being late is half an occurrence. Calling in sick is one occurrence. Pre-scheduled time off requested for doctors office visits (which in my case I have a lot due to a cancer diagnosis) counts as one occurrence. 10 occurrences in a 6 month rolling period equals immediate termination.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

There are federal Dept of Labor laws (for major issues only, such as overtime and civil rights), there are state labor laws, and there is company policy. Companies can be private or government. Companies can have employees in unions or not. Companies don't have to have company policy, but if they do, they need to make it known such as in a handbook, so that they treat people equally.

I suspect that your employer does have the policy you state HR is doing, and that it's legal. PTO is a perk. You didn't work for it. It comes with strings attached. The strings sound very clear.
Since 2007-08, many employers have been losing money, and they cut way back on perks and bennies.
Ask for a copy of the policy.
Also check with your state. Many people don't realize that sick days are not mandated by the gov't, and some states are starting to change that.
But be forewarned that calling in sick isn't what it used to be either. You may have to provide details and proof.

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Even with details and proof (doctors note, copay receipt, etc) we still receive an occurrence and have our PTO docked.

Of course it's legal and fair since a company has to pay you for not being there and someone to do the work you aren't doing. It's a perk of the job, administered at company discretion. You could try unpaid time off or formal sick leave, and maybe get different results.

Doesn't hurt to ask, or consult your employee handbook/HR. Manage your benefits carefully, and good luck with your illness.

Is there a PTO allotment? I.E. each employee is given x # of days per year? If there is an you get an "occurrence" for using it, that is strange. However, if there is no allotted amount then it makes perfect sense. And, again, as long as the policy is applied across the board it is not a problem.