I want to side with the women, but I think the courts have already decided that there is no expectation of privacy with a cell phone, especially at work.
This type of case has been tested many times because of employer snooping of what goes on on computers at work.
I don't know if this situation is new and different in that presumably private phones were connected to a company computer.

This is separate from the employee who should be fired - but that's not your province.
It's also separate from the right to know of the women. I would tell them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joypulv

I want to side with the women, but I think the courts have already decided that there is no expectation of privacy with a cell phone, especially at work.
This type of case has been tested many times because of employer snooping at work.

This is separate from the employee who should be fired - but that's not your province.
It's also separate from the right to know of the women. I would tell them.

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"It's also separate from the right to know of the women. I would tell them."

Should I tell them or let HR deal with that, since that is what they are paid to do?

My job is to be sure the company is secure from external threats and internal threats. I identify those threats and move them to whomever makes those hard decisions.

What if I tell HR and they don't tell the women, do I have an obligation to tell the women?

This is why I am doing so much research and asking all these questions. What is my best moral/ethical course of action that is the right thing to do?

Obviously the guy doesn't care about his job or his wife and kids. Otherwise he wouldn't be taking pics of employee and storing them. So, should I be sad for him if he loses his job? What about my boss, should I be sad if he gets fired for not doing the right thing? Would they be sad for me if I was the one doing the bad behavior and they just didn't like me and wanted to get rid of me and now have a reason to?

In reality the only thing that matters is what is the right thing to do. All things will be brought to the light. If I'm doing this out of selfish motive, that'll be brought out as well. I'm no boy scout, but I just put my wife and daughters in those women's shoes and it really makes me upset and want to protect their rights.

What selfish motive of yours?
Your boss isn't going to lose his job.
HR people aren't necessarily trained to handle every ethical dilemma in the workplace, and this is something new under the sun (I think).
You have to make these decisions to some extent and call some of the shots.

I would call a meeting of your boss and HR and tell them that the women have the right to know, that it weighs on your conscience regardless of company policy. The women can demand that the person be dealt with. They aren't going to want to work in the same place as him once they know. If you are stonewalled, then I would tell the women. If you are fired, I would sue.

First, I'm also in IT. My company has a policy about personal cell phone use on the job. If the phone is a company issued phone, then they have no expectation of privacy. Nor should they. If they are using company property in that manner, they are wrong.

That does not excuse this person from snooping on their phones. Unless he is responsible for monitoring cell phone use, then he was, at least, equally at fault. Similarly if these were personal phones. Connecting these phones to the corporate network should be a violation of company policy. But again, that doesn't excuse this person from snooping.

But I like Joy's suggestion. Arrange a meeting with HR and your boss explain that you feel concerned that these women know their private photos were compromised.

And, again as long as you have proof that you follow channels in reporting it, you should be in the clear.

When NSA does their thing, which has been very controversial and in the news recently, they listen to phone calls with the cooperation of the phone companies. The controversy involving Murdock in UK was outright hacking into phones and voice mails, and they could have or maybe did, check out photos stored on those cell phones too.
I am no expert on the legal issues here, but if NSA needs the authority of Federal law (the Patriot Act) just to be able to use phone company equipment to listen to calls, it doesn't sound reasonable that a private company has carte blanche to access all the private data on a cellphone just because it happens to be connected to a company computer at a given moment. I think it is illegal but I don't know how you could even find out, aside from calling the FBI (if U.S.).
BUT, after reading this article, I have no idea.
Can your employer monitor your smartphone?

Sorry smearcase, but the issue here is ownership. The company owns the equipment, they have a right to control how that equipment is being used. Connecting a non company device to the network could compromise the security of the network. So that gives the company the right to monitor.

But that doesn't give an individual in that company who's job has nothing to do with security to snoop and steal files.

The real problem comes if the people whose photos were stolen try to sue the company. The company lawyer can argue that since they misused corporate property they have no right to sue the company.

But none of that affects the OP and his situation. The employee in question did not have a right to snoop on their phones and definitely did not have a right to copy photos from those phones. By doing so, he compromised the liability of the company.

Scott's take on this, I think, explains their their actions so far. They figured, remove the photos and pretend it never happened.
Raider, if the company has decided to handle it in this manner and if Scott's opinion is correct (I personally think he is right), you will be putting yourself in bad position by bringing it up again. If you talk to HR, and they just tell you it is resolved, you will have no options left except to tell the ladies about it.
And whether the ladies find out about it from you or on their own, the company will assume that you instigated it. For all you know, the perp has been reprimanded.
I want to say--talk to your boss about putting out a memo explaining to employees that they are putting their personal data at risk when they plug their phones into their computers--but if the company has already put this episode behind them, they probably won't be too enthused about doing that either.
You did the right thing already. Quit while you are ahead. You didn't create the laws or the policies. Few of us have never had to hold our nose and just accept what our supervisors have decided to do to handle a particular situation.

'Quit while you are ahead. You didn't create the laws or the policies. Few of us have never had to hold our nose and just accept what our supervisors have decided to do to handle a particular situation.'

It seems clear to me that OP doesn't accept that position, although that's certainly a reasonable one to take when you are supporting not just yourself but also your family.
I am not sure I could work at that company if they didn't fire the person who downloaded the pics. What's he going to get away with next? And again, what if he has the same pics at home, or has put them elsewhere on the net? If I didn't make sure that the women knew about this, I couldn't live with myself. And yes, that's despite the fact that they are naive and foolish.

" If I didn't make sure that the women knew about this, I couldn't live with myself. And yes, that's despite the fact that they are naive and foolish."

I agree that they should know that their photos have been seen. But I don't know how to have it "leaked" to them without taking chances with Raider's career and livelihood. Maybe there are job opportunities for him but we know what companies can do when asked for a reference, etc. Someone once said "Never take the slightest chance at a catastrophic outcome" and we all know the one about "No good deed goes unpunished".
Plus, I have no idea how these ladies might react to learning that Raider saw their photos. That might not give them a warm and fuzzy feeling toward him.
Raider, you have the most knowledge about the details of how your company operates and you certainly know how the data is handled. If you still feel strongly that the "news" has to come out somehow, find a way to have it leak "accidently". I have no idea how you can do that and protect yourself at the same time, but you might. It would be great if the perp himself somehow let the cat out of the bag.

If there is a way for a phone owner to know if files have been downloaded (I would like to think there is, but I don't own a smart phone or even a cell phone - they don't cover my area), the process could be passed around through circuitous means. Or even directly. That way if any of the women want to check, and do see that has happened, they can take steps to find out who did it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smearcase

Scott's take on this, I think, explains their their actions so far. They figured, remove the photos and pretend it never happened.
Raider, if the company has decided to handle it in this manner and if Scott's opinion is correct (I personally think he is right), you will be putting yourself in bad position by bringing it up again. If you talk to HR, and they just tell you it is resolved, you will have no options left except to tell the ladies about it.
And whether the ladies find out about it from you or on their own, the company will assume that you instigated it. For all you know, the perp has been reprimanded.
I want to say--talk to your boss about putting out a memo explaining to employees that they are putting their personal data at risk when they plug their phones into their computers--but if the company has already put this episode behind them, they probably won't be too enthused about doing that either.
You did the right thing already. Quit while you are ahead. You didn't create the laws or the policies. Few of us have never had to hold our nose and just accept what our supervisors have decided to do to handle a particular situation.

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So, I went and talked to HR about this issue and just came at it from the point of view to update the policy concerning personal devices at work. In the process of the discussion, it was brought up about this particular issue. As I had suspected, the truth was not told and the director tried to sweep it under the rug. HR is glad I came to them and are working on a resolution. The potential consequences of not dealing with it right are the risks being placed on the company by having these individuals who are in charge of the companies policies being the ones doing the bad deeds...

To be continued...

Great. Hope it works out for you, and you get promoted even..
Sounds like at minimum, employees may get some warning about the risks they are taking. And depending on how that warning is worded, the ladies may get a clue, as in Oh, My G!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raider777

So, I went and talked to HR about this issue and just came at it from the point of view to update the policy concerning personal devices at work. In the process of the discussion, it was brought up about this particular issue. As I had suspected, the truth was not told and the director tried to sweep it under the rug. HR is glad I came to them and are working on a resolution. The potential consequences of not dealing with it right are the risks being placed on the company by having these individuals who are in charge of the companies policies being the ones doing the bad deeds...

To be continued...

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Congrats. I think that was a perfect way to handle it.

Keep us posted please.

(Keeping post active - fell off my list)