Ask Me Help Desk - The social impact home schooling has on young children

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

a. I feel sorry for your childhood, sounds like it was rough
b. the real world involves aspects of this, you need to learn not to be a victim

Why do you assume that Wyeast is or was ever a victim?

I know that I wasn't a victim. I was raised in rough neigborhoods in two different cities. I learned about peer pressure and bullying in Public Schools by witnessing other kids getting beat up. Why would any sane person want to put their children through that?

But I am interested in one thing, please explain how a well meaning, polite child who is not involved in gangs can learn NOT to be a victim?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Father,

I read what you wrote and wonder if your views on the public schooling issues are focused uniquely on the U.S.. In Canada I do not have such a dim view of the public education, I think they do an admirable job.

Regardless of which country you are in I do have these comments
- I have nothing against homeschooling ... if done well. I do imagine that 90% of the parents today wouldn't know where to start if they were told that next year their kids would be taught by them. And frankly I bet many would have the interest or the effort required.
- can one parent have access to the same body of knowledge that a dedicated government department has? i.e. methjods of teaching/learning, resources for various subjects, etc.
- how does that work with two incomes families or families with multiple children? Not all parents have the energy level required to be the sole provider of schooling and playtime to 3 children, 5 days a week.

Just thoughts. I am currently quite happy with our school system here. I supplement what she learns with some real world experiences.

Between 50,000 and 95,000 students are homeschooled in Canada.
Considering Homeschooling Ministry by MorningStar Educational Network

So apparently many Canadians are not satisfied with their Public School system. The HomeSchool Legal Defense Association of Canada enumerates reasons Canadians decide to homeschool:

Why do families Homeschool?
Many parents commit to educating their children at home. Their underlying motivation is the conviction that this is best for the moral and spiritual development of their family, and it is the best way to provide a solid education for their children. They are concerned for the spiritual and character development as well as the social and academic welfare of their children.

Specific advantages have been expressed as follows:

* Homeschooling makes quality time available to train and influence children in all areas in an integrated way.
* Each child receives individual attention and has his unique needs met.
* Parents can control destructive influences such as negative peer pressure and offensive curriculum.
* Opportunity is available for spiritual training and presenting a biblical perspective of all academic subjects.
* Children gain respect for their parents as teachers.
* The family experiences unity, closeness and mutual enjoyment of each other.
* Children develop confidence and independent thinking away from negative peer pressure to conform, in the security of their own home.
* Children have time to think and explore new interests.
* Communication between different age groups is enhanced.
* Tutorial-style education helps each child achieve his full potential.
* Flexible scheduling can accommodate parents' work and vacation times and allow time for many activities.

The courts have declared the public system of education in Canada to be purely secular. There is no room for religious instruction, and in particular Christian instruction, in government schools. However, parents continue to have the right to direct the education of their children on their own, including religious training, if they so desire. That right is safeguarded by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and protected by the courts.

As parents, our influence on our children is both substantial and long lasting. Unfortunately, when bonds develop in an insecure manner, that too has a substantial and long lasting negative impact on the child ... parents are the most effective care givers for their children.

National Foundation for Family Research and Education, 1996
Home School Legal Defence Association of Canada - Questions & Answers

Sincerely,

De Maria

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_cianci

Personally I'm opposed to home schooling. Not so much because of any potential social impact but rather an academic one.

Since homeschooled children have out performed private and public schooled children in every academic category, on what have you based your opinion?
HSLDA | Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

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I feel that homeschooled children do not develop good work habits as they don't learn to adhere to a schedule, unless the parents doing the homeschooling are very conscientious about establishing a schedule and making sure their children adhere to it. Most parents simply have too many other responsibilities on their plate to establish and implement a proper homeschooling program though they may have good intentions.

It is precisely because of their good work habits and their conscientious attitude that colleges are now seeking home schoolers for their programs.

After years of skepticism, even mistrust, many college officials now realize it's in their best interest to seek out home-schoolers, said Barmak Nassirian, associate executive director of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.

"There was a tendency to kind of dismiss home schooling as inherently less rigorous," he said. "The attitude of the admissions profession could have at best been described as skeptical."

Home-schooled students _ whose numbers in this country range from an estimated 1.1 million to as high as 2 million _ often come to college equipped with the skills necessary to succeed in higher education, said Regina Morin, admissions director of Columbia College.

Such assets include intellectual curiosity, independent study habits and critical thinking skills, she said.

"It's one of the fastest-growing college pools in the nation," she said. "And they tend to be some of the best prepared."
Colleges Coveting Home-Schooled Students, Colleges Aggressively Competing for Home-Schoolers in Quest for Best Students - CBS News

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The other major concern is that homeschooled children don't acquire a sufficient background in the various academic subjects, unless the parents are highly educated and recall enough of their own schooling to impart the required knowledge to their children/pupils. For example, how many homeschooling parents could tell me how to use trigonometry to solve a right triangle problem?

Probably, not many. But how many homeschooling parents have access to the library, to websites and to books which explain math and many other subjects? All of them.

And how many homeschooling parents know people with mathematical, scientific and teaching backgrounds who are willing to help? I can't speak for the whole world, but our homeschooling community of perhaps 100 families includes many parents who are willing to tutor our children in virtually every subject from piano to trigonometry and even jewelry making.

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Now this may sound like an extreme example but it is an expected skill for secondary students in the public school system. Any student who leaves high school not knowing how to do this isn't going to be able to progress much further in higher education or the professional world.

Why? Did you stop learning after high school? In fact, I remember that college used to offer trig classes. Name one college that no longer offers trig classes.

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If one is going to pump gas or flip burgers for a living then fine, but if one wants a successful career (s)he's going to have to know how to do this particular skill, at least for academic reasons if not practical ones. So all things considered I'm generally against homeschooling as an option.

I don't know what information you've considered. All information that I've seen shows that Homeschoolers excel in every way. Homeschoolers are also more successful academically in College than their public school counterparts.
HSLDA | Homeschooled Students Excel in College

Sincerely,

De Maria

This may surprise many of you due the fact that I am 12 years old
Matter of fact is that I was home schooled for a couple of years at the moment I go to a public school and I have notced that I seem to have a lot more common sense and general knowledge

s_cianci:
Actually, your assumptions concerning academics are incorrect. Like you, I used to be against homeschooling for the Same reasons. It just didn't make sense to me how a parent, with no educational training, could teach a child as well as a school teacher did. How could that be?

Then, I started to research the subject to provide some "proof" to back up my opinion. And what I found really surprised me. There are numerous studies which show that homeschooled children FAR out preform public school students academically in ALL subjects. If you do a simple Google search you can read some of the research out there. Here is an example of one particular study: http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/cbs/43/3/195/ However, there are many others out there which show similar results. Sadly, I could not find a SINGLE bit of "proff" which supported my theory. It appears that homeschooling really does provide a superior education.

Another surprise is that even if you account for other factors such as the level of education of the parent teacher, family income, socio-economic status, etc. etc.---Homeschooled students STILL out preform public schooled students by as much as 2 grade levels in many subjects. (Please note that the same can not be said for unschoolers. The studies I say seemed to report that they did preform much lower than their public schooled peers in many subjects.)

So it seems to me that even if a parent-teacher isn't able to solve a trig problem off the top of their heads (as in your example), homeschooled parents are able to effectively facilitate the learning of this material through curriculum, private tutors, and other means. (Regardless of their educational background.) And, their students outpreform pubic schooled students in math. I tried to think about how this could be, and my only thougths are that perhaps it is because they get a lot more one-on-one attention. Also, the curriculum can be chosen to fit their exact learning style and preferences. (The same can not be done when you are teaching a class of 30 students.) Also, students can learn at their individual pace. When you are teaching a class of 30 students, you often end up teaching to the lowest denominator. (I say this from experience.) So even though 15 students may be ready to move on, you need to wait until the slower students are able to grasp the material. All of this waiting and puddling around often means that you have a lot of very bored students in classrooms. (Again, I say this from direct experience.) Perhaps many people reading this can relate to what it feels like to be bored in a classroom while we wait for the teacher to try and coral 30 some students towards a learning objective! The result is that many students are turned off from learning. It becomes a chore.

I also did some research into socialization. And what I found again surprised me. What I found was that homeschooled kids are actually better socialized than their public schooled peers. (And again, not trying to beat up kids who go to public school! I went to public school and I am a big supporter of public schools... I am just telling you my honest findings.) My experience with public schooled kids is that they are able to communicate effectively and socialize with people of a much wider age range than their public schooled peers. They also seemed much more likely to be accepting of people of different backgrounds and abilities. I found them to be much more empathetic towards other people too. I also found that a lot of the negative socialization that effects kids is not passed on to homeschoolers.

For example: I recently took a group of public schooled kids to the museum for a field trip. On the trip was also a group of homeschooled kids from a local co-op. The public schooled kids were bored and goofing off. (I have found from experience that there is a lot of peer pressure on kids to act this way in school. Especially for boys. They are looked at as 'un-cool' if they pay too much attention or act too interested.)

The homeschooled kids on the other hand had actually been looking forward to this field trip. According to one of the mothers I spoke with, her kids were art lovers and had been begging to go on this trip for some time. Well, the public schooled kids were being loud and obnoxious and making fun of the docent providing the tour. One of the homeschooled kids, very politely, pleased asked them to keep it down because they couldn't hear. The HS child explained that they had really been looking forward to learning about this material for some time. I about fell over when I saw that!

I also found that the homeschooled children were much better able to communicate with adults as well as children their own age. They also seemed to have a lot fewer behavior problems. Perhaps because instead of mainly seeing behavior modeled from other immature beings, they saw a lot more behavior modeled from adults. (Again, I say this from personal experience only.)

So, in conclusion, I used to be one of the biggest critics of home education. However, the more I looked into home education, the more my opinions changed. I now think that being socialized with a group of 30 people your same age is completely unnatural. I mean, where else besides school, are you put in a large group of people your same age? Now that I am an adult, I have friends who range in age drastically. And when I went into the work force and college, I had to interact with people of a wide range of ages. I think that in a homeschool setting, the socialization that kids receive is much more natural. They naturally have friends who range in ages since that is how most homeschooled groups are set up. Also, homeschooled kids have a lot more say in WHO their friends will be. Friends are chosen based more on similar interest and personalities than just based on age alone.

I also see how having more direct, one-on-one adult supervision can really be beneficial to children. It is hard to watch everything a group of 30+ children are doing. (Again, I speak from experience!) I am a fairly competent person, however, I do have human limitations. There is a lot of negative behavior that goes on in a classroom that doesn't get corrected---and therefore the students many times don't learn another better way of interacting with others. That probably would be less likely to happen in a smaller family setting.

I have also seen how schooling can really instill a "victim" mentality into some children. Especially those who are perhaps different than the norm. Where else, besides school, are you FORCED to socialize with people who are cruel to you? For example, as an adult if my friends are not "nice people"--I can go find new friends. If my co-workers or boss mistreat me, I can move to another job. Children do not have that same luxury. Their only option is to try desperately to fit in with the crowd at school. If someone is bullying them, really what option to they have for recourse? Just about anything they might think to do is just going to make their situation worse. They could tell a teacher, but if the teacher disciplines or even talks to the bully, it often just makes things worse for the child with the concern. The child could tell a parent, but exactly can the parent do which won't make it worse for the child?

To the student doing this research:
You might not agree with all of my conclusions. I know that when I was in high school I probably wouldn't have agreed with some of the things I wrote about socialization above. However, now that I have been out of high school for awhile... now that I have had some experience in the work force, and now that I am able to step away from the mind-set of high school--I can honestly say that I am not so sure that the socialization I received in public schooling was beneficial to me. Sure, I might have learned how to dress cool--and be popular, but I didn't learn a lot of lessons which would have been more helpful to me in the "real world". When I got into the "real world" I learned that things didn't operate the same way as they do in high school and middle school. And the more I thought about it, I realized that a family setting is a lot more natural way to be brought up than in an institution. (Again, I never would have thought the same thing if you would have asked me at 18! Those are just my conclusions now!)

I'm a high schooler who is currently homeschooled, but I also know what public and private school is like from experience. I believe home schooling is far better than public and still much better than private schooling. The parent has a control over what their child learns - so if you don't want you kid learning homosexual sex ed, you can take it out. If you don't want them learning sex ed at all, you can do that. If you don't want evolutionary science, you can choose something else. If you want all of these, you can teach all of them. It's completely up to the parent, and often the students get a say in it, too - especially the older students.

Academically, home schooling can be better or worse. Some curriculums are just a bad idea for certain subjects, but have excellent programs for other subjects. With home schooling, too, you can 'mix' grades - if you have a ninth grader who is doing poorly in math but finds their history program too easy, you can give them a tenth grade history course and a remedial or eighth grade math course much more easily than in public school. If you have a child who learns better hands-on and another child who is a visual learner, you can choose different courses for the same grades and subjects so they can get more out of it. If, however, you just pick a pre-made 'set' (courses all from one curriculum and grade level, etc.) then chances are your child could do just as well if not better at a public or private school.

Socially, I think people make too many assumptions. Bullying, peer pressure, cliques, and that sort of negativity can be avoided entirely with home schooling; but kids don't have to be unsocialized. You can join a homeschool group that does things like 'school' plays, field trips, and the like; you could get together in a similar matter with other families, home school or not, just so everyone can socialize and hang out. Several schools allow homeschooling children to register through them so the kids can take part in clubs, special activities, or other after-school or 'extras' without actually attending that school.

Structurally, home schooling isn't as evil as you might think. Some kids learn better with a more lax schedule - and the point of school isn't learning routine so much as getting an education. Many families have more of a schedule than it seems; they just are able to 'toss' the schedule if necessary to allow for things like field trips or emergencies. Honestly, I don't think a person who has never attended school should form an opinion of public or private schooling; and I don't feel it's fair for people who were never homeschooled to form an opinion of homeschooling. There are several sides and methods of each form of schooling, and everyone should form their own opinions based on all facets.