Hi,

Have installed a new wired doorbell. (DESA) Heath/Zenith Model #LE-65-B. (Electronic)

I also changed and added a new 16 Volt Xfrmer and a lighted pushbutton and a diode.

After install, all worked fine including the "Lighted" pushbutton.

I checked the bell a few hours later, it stopped working and the pushbutton light was off.

I went to the Xfrmer and checked the voltage with a test light and it was OK.

Then I looked at the push button and it was on again and all worked for a little while,

Then off again.

I took the button apart and disconnected the bulb and all worked:mad: again.

Isn't there a way to wire this with a lighted push button?

Add a resistor perhaps?

Thank you

Just thinking??

Do they make a Double pole door bell push button?

I think that would solve the problem for some.

You could run a separate Xfrm to the push button and light up the button.

Just an idea.

Thanks

Wouldn't use a diode, a resistor may work, I have seen the resistance of the bulb be too low
To open circuit fully, On some things I have had to remove the bulb. You need to see why power is restoring itself.
I would Hook back up, when light goes out, turn off breaker for door bell, wait a minute, then turn back on. See if it comes back, want to be sure no intermittent connection when checking wiring/voltage.
What is the VA of the Transformer, and is that what it requires.

Hi,

Thank you - what size (Ohms) resistor??

You will have to experiment, Too low, it will have same effect, too high, chime won't work.
VA of XFMR?
Why were you losing power? Does transformer reset itself?

Hi,

I'm trying your suggestion - have reinstalled everything, including the diode and all is working, for the last half hour.

I did re-tighten and check all my connections.

My Xformer VAC is 15 and the voltage is 16 volts.

I tried a few resistors and N.G. ohms are too high. As I dumped my resistor supply a few years ago :) suggest a starting point for the OHMS.

I don't want to buy a million resistors to get to the correct ohms...

Where do I start?? 50 Ohms??

Thanks

I am rewriting this as somehow it did not post.
I would get a package of 33 ohm ressistors(5), then try in series, then parallel.
2 in parallel is 16.5 ohms, 4 in parallel is 8.25 ohms.
2 in series is 66 ohms.
I don't think I would use the diode.

Hi,

Just bought some resistors as well as a "Pot"

I just checked the bell and it's off again... Shut the breaker off for 30 Sec. and all
Is working again.

Looks like the wires are OK, no breaks

Will advise.

Thank you

Hi,

By the way, there does not seem to be a thermal couple/breaker within the Xformer

Thanks

Hi,

Just got finisher trying resistors w/o any luck.. Seems that if I go up 10 Ohms it changes from Not working to pulsing..

I disconnected the bulb, added the diode and put it together. We'll see if it keeps going.

I still like my idea of a DPST push button lighted switch with a separate Xformer for the light.

In my case I would need to rewire, as the wire now only has two conductors and it goes

Up into a vaulted ceiling.

My wife wouldn't like me making holes in the ceiling!!

Thanks again.

What you can do is to take a standardlighted doorbell and take it apart.

Inside, add a diode/resistor and LED (probably surface mount). The resistor should be about 24/24e-3 or slightly smaller.

These components are mounted inside the pushbutton. Parts can be ordered from DigiKey Corp. | Electronic Components Distributor | United States Home Page .

I've done it, and it's been working nearly forever.

I don't know what happened to my post.

What you can do is get a lighted push button and disassemble it.

Inside place a surface mount LED, a resistor and a diode all in series, the correct way of course.

The resistor should be about 24/10e-3 ohms or a little less.

Fit this inside the doorbell between the two contacts and it will work nearly forever. That's what I did.

Hi,

Thank you. I clicked on the link and searched for LED's - no luck.

Am I doing something wrong?

Also can you tell me what you mean by 24/10e?? Also adding a resistor - LED and a diode the Correct way... What's the correct way?

How about a diagram, if possible.

I know what 3 ohms means, but not the above.

Thanks again

This will not be the final components, but it will give you an idea of the circuit and you will know if it works by trying it.

What I'd like you to do is to go to Radio Shack and get an LED with Leads. Pick a color. I used green

10e-3 is 1x10-3 or 0.010 amps or 10 milliamps; Typical trive currents are between 10 and 50 mA. I'd use 0.020.

The resistor actually is calculated by( 24-1.2-0.6)/0.020 The 1.2 is the forward drop of the LED and the 0.6 is the drop of the extra diode. That's 1110 ohms. 1000 ohms is a standard value.
You can re-compute I and use below, but it won't make much of a difference.

You can find P ~ (0.020)^2*1000. That's 0.4 watts, so a 1/2 watt resistor is needed.

Get a 1n4001 or 1n4002 diode. You will notice a band on the diode and you'll notice a cut off flat on the led.

Wire the flats and the band in the same direction.

If that works, I can find you appropriate parts to make a lighted doorbell.

Then try to find a lighted doorbell that you can unassemble and put back together.

This circuit is big, but we can make it smaller.

Hi,

Thanks again.. I'll go tomorrow for the parts.

How are these 3 parts wired in "Parallel" or what?

Thanks

Also,

I have a diode that came with the doorbell will that do?

Thanks

They are wired in series in any order. If the LED doesn't light, reverse the diode.

What is the number on the diode?

If you'd like, I can take pic of mine?

If the above circuit doesn't work, we can make either work with a 24 VAC relay.

The lamps burn out, the LED's do not.

Hi,

Not sure of the diode number, I'll buy the one you selected in your previous post
From Radio Shack as I have to go there anyway.

Thanks

Here is an example surface mount LED. See the dimensions page.
Probably can support it with 1 diode and 1 resistor on either side.

Here is one such modification:

LED DIY Doorbell Modification

My button was much smaller. It was one of those recessed into the wall. Only about 5/8" round.

Hi,

Looking at your pictures I do not see the diode, only the two LED's and the resistor.

I know you said put the Resistor,LED and Diode in series, how are two LED's wired into the circuit?

The LED or LED's are used in place of the original bulb?

Please draw a schematic with one, then two, LED's, if possible.

Thank you, sorry to be a pain!

Hi,

Picked up the parts today.. Only thing, I found the LED's are FW Current: 70ma

and FW supply 2.6 Typical and 3.3V max.. These are 4 pin LED's

I'm thinking I might have gotten the wrong LED's?

Will these LED's change the resistance value of the resistor form 1K?

Thank you

What Radio Shack Part number did you get for the LED's?

Did yoy get this? 20mA 4-pin 130° Power LED (White) - RadioShack.com

Of course Radios Shack info isn't there and probably each pair of the pins is connected to Anode(+) or cathode(-). The cathode side of the diode is the side with the band.

So it's something like this:

*---- 1K ******- LED +*****-diode+*******

LED's are a diode, so they rectify. The added diode is protection when operating the LED off AC.

If you were going to use two, you could add an LED in series or make another string like the above, but put it backwards in the circuit. Then you have one led powering from each side of the AC line.

You should also be able to put the LED's back to back in the circuit too if using two.

At this point, all I wanted you to do do, was to get a feel and to see if it could work. We don't know what the input circuit looks like in the bell chime. It's not a coil of wire, so lighted doorbells have a poor chance of working.

Aside:
If you got a 24 VAC relay and wired the doorbell, lighted or other wise, such that when you pushed the button, the relay coil closed you have what it takes to make a lighted doorbell work.

Now, you take the normally open contacts of the relay and put it where the pushbutton was. ---> instant lighted doorbel.

Hi,

Put the parts together on the bench today with an extra Xfrmer and both LED's
Are working together.

Will put the test package onto the push button and test soon, will advise

Thank you.

Hi,

Posted my last before I read yours.. No I didn't get the Radio Shack white ones
Mine are red and FW 70MA..

Is this too much of a draw?

Thanks

Your limiting the brightness by the resistor. The spec for most led's is about 10 mA to about 50 mA with a design goal of about 20 mA. The lower the current, the longer lifetime. The higher the current, the brighter and shorter lifetime.

Kind of an oops, but you can use 16V for the volatage. I think I usd 24 without thinking. The LED's only see a half cycle anyway.

Remember, you don't have to cram everything in. Just externally connect your series combination thingy to the button and see if it works.

You may decide on both; LED button and the relay modification.

Hi,

I just tried both LEDs one for each side of the AC cycle on my test xformer.

I will try the basic (One LED) for real when my wife wakes up from her nap.

I don't want to ring the bell with her asleep!!

Would this type of setup work with a push button for a garage door opener?

I've tried a lighted push button for my garage but it ony worked for a short while
Then had trouble getting it to work. Had to hold and reset the push button.

After cutting out the push button bulb everything worked again.

I haven't checked the voltage for the garage door - don't know if AC or DC?

Thanks

Measure the voltage across the switch contacts and dermine if it is AC or DC?

If you have a current range on your meter, use something like the 300 mA scale and put the meter in series with the button and measure the current.

Open circuit voltage and short circuit current will give us something to go on.

Otherwise, we have to do the relay trick.

Hi,

Just tested the actual door bell but sadly N.G. with 1K in place, wouldn't complete 8 note chime.

Had to reduced the resistance to 10 ohms and now operating OK..

Will let this run for awhile and recheck. When I tried this with just a diode and the regular bulb in place this worked for a few hours then all went out including the chimes.

I believe the 24VAC relay trick would require 4 wires to the push button, correct?

If so mine only has two and would be a mess to rewire. I'm not sure if the wire is stapled
Anywhere in the walls.

Let you know

Thanks

Something seems fishy. You are attaching that resistor/diode/LED network across a switch that doesn't have a bulb in it, correct? I think you put the combination in series with the button. It's supposed to be across the button.

Therefore, the light/resistor/diode gets shorted out when you push the button.

This doesn't work like a normal circuit.
With a bell, which will act like a piece of wire, a bulb and a transformer as long as the light load is small, then the bell can't ring, but the light will light. When the switch shorts out the light, there is enough current o make the bell ring.

You can try reversing the network across the switch too.

You can measure the open circuit voltage and short circuit current as well.

The relay trick should not require anymore than 2 wires to the bell.

Something seems fishy. You are attaching that resistor/diode/LED network across a switch that doesn't have a bulb in it, correct? I think you put the combination in series with the button. It's supposed to be across the button.

Therefore, the light/resistor/diode gets shorted out when you push the button.

This doesn't work like a normal circuit.
With a bell, which will act like a piece of wire, a bulb and a transformer as long as the light load is small, then the bell can't ring, but the light will light. When the switch shorts out the light, there is enough current o make the bell ring.

You can try reversing the network across the switch too.

You can measure the open circuit voltage and short circuit current as well.

The relay trick should not require anymore than 2 wires to the bell.

Hi,

Checked again, the switch is wired correctly.
The LED - Resistor 10 Ohm - and Diode in series across the push button leads.
All works now.

If I increase the Ohms by even 10 ohms the chime only plays a few notes - doesn't complete.. The original bulb is OUT of the switch circuit completely.

Could there be a problem using the 70ma LED?

Radio shack #276-0020

Thanks

My computer is crippled right now, recently had a hard drive crash and not up to speed yet. I'll try to scribble something and scan it because I still think we are on different pages, even based on your last post.

Hi,

Good luck on your computer.

Measure the voltage with the diode in place, then use this calculator:
LED calculator for single LEDs

Munch on this for a while. I didn't pretty print anything. See if it makes any sense.

Hi,

Thanks, I'm LOOKING!!

Hi,

Here's a simple drawing of my start and how it is now. I used the 70MA LED and a 10 Ohm resister with the diode. It has been working for 10 Hours. The LED is bright - may be too much voltage given the lower resistor.

While looking at your drawing I'm not sure I understand it. Most likely me? Could you explain the new relay and xfrm more. Not sure where it all ties in to my set up hense my drawing.

Thank you

Hi,

I didn't draw or pay attention of the polarity while drawing the pictures.