Yeah hvacservicetech,
The new guy that showed up today went around and measured all the ducts and wrote a bunch of numbers down and said he had to do come calculations. I didn't know what he meant until I read up on it tonight on line. I am curious what he reports back to me. I think this 4 ton unit is too much.
Don't you think there should be a law requiring the installers to calculate out the size unit the customer needs.

Here is a cool site I found, it's a tutorial- you answer a few questions about your home and it will calculate the size unit you need. Maybe not exact science but it's a starting point for the customer. Check it out here: Central Air Conditioner Sizing Tutorial : ENERGY STAR

Man it would save everyone all this grief- installers and customers. I realize installers don't want customers calling them up and complaining they are hot after a new unit was installed so they put a big unit in hoping it will have capacity to freeze the customer out should they want that. But the opposite happens.
There should be a law- these things aren't cheap. Also I have asthma that doesn't do well in humidity. I have been puffin on my puffer for 5 days. I am wheezing pretty bad tonight from being in here for 5 hours.

Never mind that AC sizing tutorial, I measured windows to day and took the test - in the end it recommended that you have your contractor use the Manual J to get the right size equipment. Could this get any more weird?????????

If your old 4 ton unit worked fine, the new one should work as well. If you had to little of air flow you would be freezing up the coil. Too much air can usually be controlled by slowing down the blower. I don't see were a larger supply or return air duct will help with this problem if they can't even make the discharge air cold enough. You have a refrigeration problem that needs to be detected by someone who knows what they are doing.

UP DATE;
The factory recommended that a larger hole is made just before the air goes into the ac. This will reduce the static??

Get that in writing from the factory just to be sure.

Good advice hvac1000 and I wouldn't have thought of it.
Does this seem like something that would work?
Its getting HOT here

Second up date...
Ok so I am sick of all this guess work about what size hvac I need. I used this site and did a rough calculation- its not exact--- just a guideline. It tells me that I MUST hire a company to come in and do this right.
I purchased a 4 ton, and really a 3 to 3.5 is what I need.
Over sized ac conditioners do not run long enough to dehumidify the air, which results in that clammy feeling- then that leads to mold growth and my asthma attacks for me.
I found the blue prints to my house ( from 1980) and on there is the size of walls and other measurements. I did a little measuring... it was all very easy and took about 40 minutes. Then I went to this site:AC Direct - Frequently Asked Questions

So anyone reading this that isn't an installer of hvac learn from my experience, you must have rather you must insist that documented sizing calculations be performed on your home using ( this is the key to getting right the first time)
ACCA MANUAL J PROCEDURE.
There are many companies that will do this or you can hire a HVAC that does.

If you don't do this and you end up with the issues I have had and you can't swap the unit out there are dehumidifying heat pipes. This is a device that enables an air conditioner to dehumidify better and efficiently cool the air. Most models of heat pumps and central air conditioners can be retrofitted with dehumidifying heat pipes, there is a replacement or add ons. It will take more energy to cool your home and the system consumes more fan power to blow air past the heat pipe- experts know more about this then I do- I only researched stuff on the internet- which we all know we can't always believe! So there you have it... got to love the internet and Google!
Thank you all for pushing me in the right direction- I getting a new unit
Rebecca

If the old unit you replaced was a 4 ton unit and it worked fine, there's no reason the new 4 ton unit shouldn't do as well or better. It may be more efficient and have a new refrigerant but a BTU is a BTU. As long as the new unit is rated at 48,000 btu/hr and has the same cfm air discharge setting, it should cool and dehumidify just like the old one did. You still have a problem with your unit or your service tech. Make sure the new unit is the same size (btu/hr) as the one they replaced. Also keep track of the temperature in your house, the unit shouldn't shut off until your thermostat is satisfied. If you set it for 72 degrees it shouldn't shut off until its close to 72 degrees.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by longjohns

I have just purchased a new Tempstar 4 ton 13 seer, 78 afeu
1410A refrigerant. model # PGX 348080K01A1.

I had this thing installed in January, the heater worked fine. The ac won't work right.
The guy that installed it has been here 5 times. He is at a loss as to what the problem is.
The air is very humid, very humid. The air is not cool.
any ideas ?
Thanks for your help!
Rebecca

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If your tec will check the Suction Pressure at and compare it to the suction temp at the compressor he will probably find he has no superheat. This is the likely cause for high humity and low cooling effect. The repair will probably be a replacement of the TXV. If you had a 4 ton unit their before it is probably not the duct system.

FYI, anyone installing a system that uses 410A ( Puron) has to be certified in its use, it is one of the newest refrigerants on the market and was intened to replace R22, which is supposed to be discontinued by 2015, that's not saying it won't be around. I would highly recommend staying with the 410A system, but get a qualified srevice tech to look at it. And yes your duct is undersized. You did not say if this is a variable speed furnace or not, what is the name and model no. Mike

Thanks acetc for your information.
Well nothing has changed. The Tempstar still doesn't work.
The model # on this Tempstar is PGX 348080K 01A. It does have a variable speed. ( 5 speeds I think the book says)

The guy has been here for 2 months almost everyday.
There has been a big wig guy from the bigger city near by that came out twice. He can't figure it out. So he called the factory to get a rep out here. (See if they don't go through the chain of command the factory won't send someone out- so I am told. I think the sales rep for tempstar and the installer don't want to eat the unit and I don't want them to either. Can't we all be winners in this?) So well long story short, The factory has refused to send a rep out. In other words they have left my installer hanging.

The installer is a great guy and he is so dedicated to fixing this thing. He has nightmares about this every night. If I said I am done he would pull it, but I have not and in fact been nice enough to say- just keep trying to fix it. I hate to have it pulled without knowing the problem. I could be in the same boat with a new unit.

I have no bad feelings towards the guy- he is learning and I am OK with that.
Its hot here and I wish the thing worked better and so does he. He has checked everything a million times with a lot of fancy gauges, he brazed a new expansion valve- (?) added a return, drained it and added new refrigerant. He has had 4 people out here to look at it, of course no one wants a piece of this problem~ I am telling you this thing is a dud!!

I am just about ready to have it pulled out of here. I want my R-22 back big time!
My installer is certified to work with puron. He was trained by Tempstar- he has been in the business for 35 years or more.
He says he can't install anything but a Tempstar so he will have to give me my money back. I would never get another Tempstar, the company has not helped in this one bit and if I have this unit pulled and a 3 1/2 ton put in and it doesn't work the company is going say "look lady you had us pull the 4 ton and we couldn't find a thing wrong with it and now your not happy with this, there is nothing more we can do for you" No way would I use this company again and my installer agrees 100% !

He has put in just a few 410A's and so far he's had no problems. He contacted a guy who is like some genius with this sort of stuff
(he doesn't install them though) This guy said that the expansion valve was bad. So a new one was ordered and put in and it worked pretty darn good after that. I even had to put on a jacket in my house- the inside temp was 74 and the outside was 84. I am all happy for about 2 days and then today its 99 outside and I have the new Honeywell thermostat set for 76-- it says its 76 inside but its HOT and muggy again. I hate this figgin thing! I didn't call my installer yet- Its sunday- I 'll call tomorrow. He got some specs from I don't know where and was planning on coming out this next week and fine tune something- I guess to do with that expansion valve. Can a expansion valve go bad in 4 days?

I had a new 20 x20 inch return ( 10x18 " duct) Plus there is 16 inch duct under the house. That's plenty of return... and this did help. I have however found the blue prints for my house -
There was a manual J and manual D run 7 years ago when I had an addition added onto the house. That add on has its own nice little 2 ton Carrier R-22. But the builder had the calculations done I guess cause he thought I was going to use the 4 ton to cool that addition. The calculations say a 4 ton is what this house needs. These calculations did not include the addition.

I am thinking well crap do I have to build a house around this ac or what?? I already got big hole in the side of my house for the new return thingie. Now I have this big ugly custom metal duct from the ac into my laundry room- which I repeat did help.
I got exactly half of the people in this business who say my duct work is fine and half who say it isn't.
The old R-22 4 ton did a wonderful job of cooling this house. I was always turning that other unit off as it was so cold.
I guess this has run its course and the installer will hopefully yell 'uncle'.
I can't believe the company just left him high and dry. 'What say all of you?'

The fact that you have a variable speed furnace means a lot, in this story, the motor in the blower changes speed according to duct static pressure. There are many different ways this furnace can operate depending on how you set it up , You have to tell the furnace how much air you want it to move. This information is in the installers guide, look for section on setting the dip switchs. Mike

Thanks Mike... I 've not heard of this 'dip switch" but then why would I... I am a graphic artist.
I looked in the book that came with the unit and I don 't see the words "dip switch". The book says the unit has 5 speeds... that does mean it has variable speeds?
I will ask the installer about dip switches.
The installer I remember mentioned something about superheat and wasn't happy with it?
Something like that... (Terry a prior poster mentioned this)
What a temperamental piece of equipment... I bet these 410A improve a lot in the next 5 years... I should have waited... The heat part went out in the old unit so I had no choice but to replace it and I was trying to do my bit for the planet. I 'll be in a mental hospital and won't know what a planet is so I should go with a R-22! LOL
love the suggestions... thanks
Rebecca

Most variable speed blowers must be adjusted using a tool that senses the duct static pressure. Then the dip switches or rheostat for for final trim of blower. You just cannot play with the dip switches and guess your best.

I checked you model number and found out that you have a package unit, which means that you do not have a variable speed blower, you may have a multispeed blower in stead. If he said he is unhappy with the super heat, he needs to be concerned with the sub cooling, because you said it had an expansion valve and that means it has to be charged by the sub cooling method. The super heat is important as a diagnosting tool, air flow plays a huge part in the super heat as well as the adjustment of the txv (some are not adjustable). The fan speed is adjustable in all new furnaces and may need to be changed to accommodate the installation, that's why they provide the installer a guide with directions to change the speed, it does sound as though your service person is making every effort and good luck.
A package unit is normally a trouble free installation, plug it in and go for it , factory charged and tested, I would look at the duct system. There is a chance that you just got a lemon, it happens.

Thanks for looking up the model I have Mike. The installer has played around with the speed many many times. (Not since putting in the expansion valve I believe.)
The installer is really a great guy and very honest- Many of my friends use him also. I sent him to two of my friends and he could have put two hvac units at each house but instead he fixed the ones they had. Both wanted new units, one friend wanted a new unit simply because it was noisy but he said no there was nothing wrong with the one she's got and suggested she build up a wall to help block the noise. I told him I thought that was very honest and that he could have put in a new unit for her, as she was adamant about wanting new one- he told me " I have to sleep at night" He makes most of his calls to the distributor and factory right in front of me and I can tell he is very upfront with me and the company.
Hell I told him to lie to the damn company and tell them the coil or something was broken-- he wouldn't do it... He is learning he said and he appreciates that I am not pissed and demanding he remove it. ( after this next adjustment if it doesn't work I will ask him to take it out) He would like to fix this one -he would hate to haul this one out as it has to be moved over little stones therefore he will have to build a wood floor and place the unit on pipes and roll it out, but he will do it. I hate to see him eat the cost of the thing and I think the company should help him. I guess the distributor will take it back so my installer won't have to lose too much on it. I am so curious when they sell it as used equipment if it works in someone else's house.
Of course maybe tomorrow when the installer comes back and tweaks the settings for the expansion valve ( something like that) it may work...

I sure wish this was a plug it in and off you go deal but its not. I am so sick of this.
I had a friend come in my house today and the thermostat says 72 but honest to god it feels 79 and my friend thought so too. She said if her thermostat is set at 72 its freezing in her house.
The thing just won't cool!

UPDATE:
Yesterday around 5 the temperature in the house was 77 and the temperature outside was 85- IT WAS COOLER OUTSIDE THEN INSIDE!
The installer called this morning and said " that unit is not going to cool and I am pulling it on Friday and giving you your money back"
So this morning ( Monday) I called a company that the builder of my house uses and he will be out here tomorrow at 10 to give me a bid on a new unit...
Here we go... R-22 or 410A ?

Since you are having another contractor come in to give you a bid have him look your system (including duct) over to possibly prevent a reaccurance of your currant problem.
Inform him of the problems you have had , it will help him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longjohns

I have just purchased a new Tempstar 4 ton 13 seer, 78 afeu
1410A refrigerant. model # PGX 348080K01A1.

I had this thing installed in January, the heater worked fine. The ac won't work right.
The guy that installed it has been here 5 times. He is at a loss as to what the problem is.
The air is very humid, very humid. The air is not cool.
any ideas ?
Thanks for your help!
Rebecca

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4 ton is way oversized, causing your high humidity problems

Mistake # 1 was you did not do a manuel J load calculation on the house. I don't give a rats a** what was in there before. Back in the day everything was over sized.
#1 load calculation
#2 measure all ductwork sizes to determine what the duct can handle. I read earlyer you had a static preasure of .8 (unacceptable) proper ductsize and cfm from blower I would want .5. fix the static preasure by lowering fan speed and or enlargeing ductwork.whats the filter look like ?
#3 once the static preasure is FIXED then check the TXV,sensing bulb test to see that it is operateing.
#4#4 remove all refrigerant from system pull vacum to 500 microns to make sure you have no leaks and no moisture in system. WEIGHT IN NEW REFRIGERANT to specs.
#5 MEASURE SUBCOOLING, measure temp at supply,at return. Outdoor temp. measrue electrical high voltage going into unit measure amps to compressor,what are the preasure readings.
Please print and give to your student or installer.
AND IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY OF THIS INFO WITH YOU WHEN YOU CALL TECH SUPPORT OF THE MFG. THEY WILL ASSUME YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO INSTALL Their EQUIPMENT.
#6 make sure you do not have air gaps in any part of the packaged unit.ductwork.
Send us some picture of this install.

This is a old thread from back in 2007. Was it resolved or is he still trying to fix it