Ask Me Help Desk - Lateral Thinking Puzzle

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Originally Posted by QLP

OK. The woman was the wife of one of the men. He comes home and finds her having a kinky time with a man in a bath full of ice-cubes. He pushes the bath tub out of the window. The bath hits a passerby killing him. The other man is killed but is still in the bath tub along with the wife (who might be dead or alive). The husband dies of a heart attack.

That's a very good version, but not it. But you are getting the right idea.

As for doing kinky things in a bathtub full of ice -- that's just outright sadistic. Ukk! I said ridiculous, not S&M. ;)

So, the woman was a man's wife then?

Ok, I need to differentiate the three men.

Man 1: Natural causes; Heart Attack.
Man 2: Murdered man.
Man 3: Accidental; sort of fell through a window

Was the wife also in the residential building?
Is Man 1 the one on the pavement?
Did the ice cubes cause the death of one of the men?
Were the ice cubes near to the window of the residential building?
Were the ice cubes with Man 3?
Was Man 3 the one living in the residential building?

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So, the woman was a man's wife then?

Yes.

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Ok, I need to differentiate the three men.
Man 1: Natural causes; Heart Attack.
Man 2: Murdered man.
Man 3: Accidental; sort of fell through a window

This is all correct. Exactly like I set up the summary.

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Was the wife also in the residential building?

Yes.

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Is Man 1 the one on the pavement?

No.

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Did the ice cubes cause the death of one of the men?

No.

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Were the ice cubes near to the window of the residential building?

The proximity to the window is not relevant. (I'm assuming you meant before they ended up on the pavement?)

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Were the ice cubes with Man 3?

Yes.

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Was Man 3 the one living in the residential building?

No.

Was man 1 the murderer?
Was man 2 having an affair with man 1's wife?

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Was man 1 the murderer?

Yes.

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Was man 2 having an affair with man 1's wife?

No.

Is Man 3 on the front door? :eek:

Was the ice cubes used by Man 3 to relieve some ache?

Was Man 3 leaning on the window when it broke?

So, the wife is in fact Man 1's wife?
Did the wife saw what happened?
Did she cause someone to die?

Is another building involved?
- Is it directly in front of the residential building?

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Is Man 3 on the front door? :eek:

No. :eek:

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Was the ice cubes used by Man 3 to relieve some ache?

No.

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Was Man 3 leaning on the window when it broke?

No.

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So, the wife is in fact Man 1's wife?

Yes.

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Did the wife saw what happened?

Yes.

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Did she cause someone to die?

No.

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Is another building involved?

No.

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- Is it directly in front of the residential building?

N/A

Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 2?
Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 3?

Is Man 3 hanging somewhere on the building?
- Is he on a balcony on a lower storey of the building?

Did Man 3 try to save Man 2? Vice versa?

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Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 2?

Yes.

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Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 3?

No.

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Is Man 3 hanging somewhere on the building?
- Is he on a balcony on a lower storey of the building?

No.

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Did Man 3 try to save Man 2? Vice versa?

No.

Did man 1 accidentally kill man 3?
Did man 2 accidentally kill man 3?
Did man 3 accidentally kill himself?
Is man to the man on the pavement?

For

Did the woman accidentally kill man 3?

I'll say no.

Is man to the man on the pavement?

I'll say yes, from what have been asked and answered.

It is right morgaine?

I'd like to think about some more questions right now, but I have to go. I'll be back in about 2~3 hours.

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Originally Posted by Unknown008

For

Did the woman accidently kill man 3?

I'll say no.

Is man 2 the man on the pavement?

I'll say yes, from what have been asked and answered.

It is right morgaine?

I'd like to think about some more questions right now, but I have to go. I'll be back in about 2~3 hours.

Yeh I realised the woman didn't cause the death so edited that out just before I saw your post. Sorry if that confuses anyone.

My brain hurts lol.

All these men are making my brain hurt.

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Did man 1 accidentally kill man 3?

Yes.

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Did man 2 accidentally kill man 3?

No.

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Did man 3 accidentally kill himself?

No.

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Is man to the man on the pavement?

Yes.

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Originally Posted by QLP

My brain hurts lol.

Didn't I just say that? :eek:

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Did the woman accidentally kill man 3? I'll say no.

No. (Although I think you figured out it was already established she didn't cause any of the deaths.)

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Is man to the man on the pavement? I'll say yes, from what have been asked and answered.

Yes, as we've already established this was not 1 or 3.

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I'd like to think about some more questions right now, but I have to go. I'll be back in about 2~3 hours.

With any luck, I'll be asleep. But you should be into evening when I get up again. (I think.)

So man 1 murdered man 2, who is on the pavement. So he probably pushed him out of the window.
Man 1 accidentally killed man 3
Man 1 died of a heart attack and is in the apartment.
Man 3 disappeared in a puff of smoke and was replaced by some ice-cubes.
Mmm - guessing not quite there yet.

Summary #2:

Three men die. On the pavement are pieces of ice and broken glass.

Natural causes man (1):
Or are one or more of natural causes? Yes.
Did one man get a heart attack? Yes
Was the woman any of the men's wife or girlfriend or mother? Yes.
So, the woman was a man's wife then? Yes
Is Man 1 the one on the pavement? No.
Was man 1 the murderer? Yes.
So, the wife is in fact Man 1's wife? Yes.
Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 2? Yes
Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 3? No.
Did man 1 accidentally kill man 3? Yes.

Murdered man (2):
- Are the two others on the pavement? One is
Are there any murders involved? Yes.
One man was murdered. Was he shot? Stabbed? Strangled? Suffocated? Drowned? Poisoned? Thrown out the window? No to all.
Hit over the head? No but you're sorta lukewarm.
Was man 2 having an affair with man 1's wife? No.
Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 2? Yes
Did Man 3 try to save Man 2? Vice versa? No.
Did man 2 accidentally kill man 3? No
Is man to the man on the pavement? Yes.

Accident man (3):
- Are the two others on the pavement? One is. The other... he's not "on the pavement."
Is the third man dead in a car? Or some other vehicle? No.
We know one is natural causes and one is a murder. Is the third a murder? Natural causes? No.
Accidental? We'll call that a yes.
Did another man fall through the window of the building? Well.... yeah sorta.
If so, did he land on a vehicle? No.
If so, did that cause the third death? Sorta.
You were a little iffy on the "fall" out of the window. Was he pushed? Sorta.
Did he jump? No
I'm still wondering where the third body is. Is it relevant? It's very relevant.
Did he fall out of the window into or onto something? Yeah, but not like how you're trying to think of it.
Did he fall onto the porte-cochere of a building? No, but near (if it has one).
Did he fall into a trash bin? No.
Did he fall on the street-side of the building? On the backside of the building? No.
Is it even this third body I'm wondering about that "fell" out of the window? Yes.
Is the one that fell the one on the pavement? No.
Were the ice cubes with Man 3? Yes.
Was Man 3 the one living in the residential building? No.
Is Man 3 on the front door? No.
Was the ice cubes used by Man 3 to relieve some ache? No.
Was Man 3 leaning on the window when it broke? No
Did Man 1 intend to kill Man 3? No.
Is Man 3 hanging somewhere on the building?
- Is he on a balcony on a lower storey of the building? No.
Did Man 3 try to save Man 2? Vice versa? No.
Did man 1 accidentally kill man 3? Yes.
Did man 2 accidentally kill man 3? No
Did man 3 accidentally kill himself? No
Did the woman accidentally kill man 3? No.

Other stuff:
Are the men related? No.
Are their ages relevant? No.
Are the men also on the pavement? All of them, no.
Do at least two of them know each other? No.
Are all three deaths accidental? No.
Is it relevant what the men do for employment? No.
Are all the three men within 10 m radius from each other? Yes.
Does one man live in the residential building? Yes.
Two? All of them? Unknown, so irrelevant.
Are there any other relevant persons besides the three men involved?
- Women? Yes.
- Men? No.
Did they all die about the same time? Yes.
Did a frozen corpse covered in ice somehow end up going out of the window and killing another person? No, but you have some interesting ideas there.
Did someone die of shock because they found a frozen corpse? No.
Did anyone slip on the ice and die? No.
Was the woman a maid bringing in the ice? Was she the murderer? No and no.
Was the wife also in the residential building? Yes.
Did the ice cubes cause the death of one of the men? No.
Did the wife saw what happened? Yes.
Did she cause someone to die? No.

Is one of the man dead in a building on a high storey? That's actually two questions. Yes there's a man dead in a building. As for high - high enough but not too high.

Did the glass come from a car? A bottle or bottles? No and no.
A window of a building? Yes.
Is it relevant what type of building is involved? Either in the number of stories? Or the function of the building, such as hospital? Yes it's relevant.
Is the building residential? Yes.
Was it a hospital? Commercial? Governmental? A prison? No.
Is another building involved? No.

Is the size of the ice pieces relevant? Yes.
Did it involve an ice bucket? No.
Are the pieces of ice bigger than tennis balls? No.
Was the ice in the building before it got crushed? Who said it got crushed? But yes.
- Was the ice initially an ice sculpture? No.
Are we talking about ice cubes? Yes.
Or did you confirm crushed ice? I'm sure some got crushed and some not.
Did the ice cubes come from a drink? Is an ice vending machine involved? Is a truck carrying ice cubes involved? No to all.
Is the purpose of the ice cubes relevant? It's relevant where they came from, not in their use.
Was the ice being used to preserve one of the dead bodies? No.
Was it just a bag of ice, or a tray of ice, Either.
Or a crate of ice? No.
Were the ice cubes near to the window of the residential building? The proximity to the window is not relevant.

Was it winter? Was there snow? Hail? Irrelevant.
Is a manhole involved? No.
Ooh was it anything to do with cryogenics? No

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So man 1 murdered man 2, who is on the pavement. So he probably pushed him out of the window.

No he didn't. :D

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Man 1 accidentally killed man 3
Man 1 died of a heart attack and is in the apartment.

Both correct.

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Man 3 disappeared in a puff of smoke and was replaced by some ice-cubes.
Mmm - guessing not quite there yet.

Considering I'm a gamer and also watch a lot of fantasy, I don't see that as being too far-fetched. :p

Actually, I've not done one of these, but there are some of these puzzles that include impossible things like magic and such. I'll have to eventually try one of those.

That was the longest most detailed summary I have ever seen. I am impressed.

Ok, some things must be settled.

Is Man 3 closer to the pavement than to the storey from which he fell?
Is Man 3 below the 'pavement level'? (if I may call it like that)
Or is Man 3 still somewhere between the building and the outside of the building?

Is the purpose of the woman in here relevant?
Did she try to help any of Man 2 or Man 3?

Did Man 2 fall on Man 3 while he fell through the window and 'pushed' him through the window too?
Was Man 2 pulled instead of 'pushed' through the window?

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Is Man 3 closer to the pavement than to the storey from which he fell?

Yes.

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Is Man 3 below the 'pavement level'? (if I may call it like that)

Yes you may, but no.

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Or is Man 3 still somewhere between the building and the outside of the building?

I'm not sure how one does that. That would be the wall. And he's not in the wall. (Though people find all sorts of things inside walls when they tear them down renovating.)

I'll grant you, on TV sometimes murder victims are behind walls - but this was an accident. ;)

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Is the purpose of the woman in here relevant?

Yes.

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Did she try to help any of Man 2 or Man 3?

Don't know, but it didn't work if she did. (Irrelevant really.)

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Did Man 2 fall on Man 3 while he fell through the window and 'pushed' him through the window too?

No.

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Was Man 2 pulled instead of 'pushed' through the window?

No.

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Originally Posted by adam_89

That was the longest most detailed summary I have ever seen. I am impressed.

Don't be too impressed. I've been popping every set of answers into a Wordpad file as I go, and section them off while I'm at it. I didn't do that from scratch! ;) (Although I did have to move some questions from "other" into an appropriate man once certain things had been established.)

I saw someone on another forum doing this, including bolding her answers. It looked really nice and made things easy.

(I'm also really anal. This is so "me." You also realize it's keeping my head together as well.)

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Originally Posted by morgaine300

Don't be too impressed. I've been popping every set of answers into a Wordpad file as I go, and go ahead and section them off while I'm at it. I didn't do that from scratch! ;) (Although I did have to move some questions from "other" into an appropriate man once certain things had been established.)

I saw someone on another forum doing this, including bolding her answers. It looked really nice and made things easy.

(I'm also really anal. This is so "me." You also realize it's keeping my head together as well.)

Well, you still did a good job.

I was thinking that maybe, she tried to grab the one killed by accident, so jumped to the window, grabbed his arm right in time but he was too heavy, and so, swung him to a lower storey...

As for between the building and outside, maybe the man was trapped somewhere by the broken window pane... since you said it is somewhat ridiculous this one.

Ok... hmmm..

Is it because of the wife than Man 1 got a heart attack?
Is it because Man 1 killed Man 3 by accident that he got a heart attack?
Is there an object which have not been mentioned yet which is relevant?
Is the woman responsible for the accidental death of Man 3? (for example she jumped on Man 1, who shot somewhere else)
Was Man 2 injured by Man 1 with his gun prior of dying?
Was Man 3 injured by Man 1 with his gun prior of dying?

Must agree, very good summaries. My brain still hurts though.

Is man 3 on something, or someone?
Or in something?

Were man 2 and man 3 both inside the apartment before they died?

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Is it because of the wife than Man 1 got a heart attack?

No.

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Is it because Man 1 killed Man 3 by accident that he got a heart attack?

Um... not directly.

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Is there an object which have not been mentioned yet which is relevant?

Yes.

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Is the woman responsible for the accidental death of Man 3? (for example she jumped on Man 1, who shot somewhere else)

No. (It's already been established the women was not a cause of any death.)

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Was Man 2 injured by Man 1 with his gun prior of dying?

No.

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Was Man 3 injured by Man 1 with his gun prior of dying?

No.

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Is man 3 on something,

Yeah, he's on heroin. :D

Sorry, no.

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or someone?

Not directly.

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Or in something?

Yes.

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Were man 2 and man 3 both inside the apartment before they died?

You should have learned by now not to ask about 2 people at the same time. ;) One was. But I'll save you some time, No and yes, in that order.

I find it difficult for man 3 to 'sorta' pass through the window if he wasn't in the apartment... =/

Was man 3 on the outside of the window when man 2 went through it?
- Was he cleaning the window? (but with ice? :confused:)

So man 3 was in something that landed on man 2 who was outside? But it wasn't a bathful of ice.

Man 1 deliberately killed man 3 so he pushed/threw the something at man 2?

If man 1 didn't deliberately kill man 3 then he couldn't see that he was in the something.
But it wasn't a crate of ice. Was it some kind of container full of grocery deliveries with ice in to keep them fresh? Was an illegal immigrant hiding in it?

Did the wife order some shopping and the order came all wrong so the man threw the container of deliveries at the delivery guy in a rage? (which he ascertained by reading the deliivery note not looking in the container).

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I find it difficult for man 3 to 'sorta' pass through the window if he wasn't in the apartment... =/

You got confused. The question was if man 2 or 3 was in the apartment. I answered no and yes in that order. Man 3 was in the apartment.

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So man 3 was in something that landed on man 2 who was outside? But it wasn't a bathful of ice.

Correct. (I did say your ice bath story was a very good idea, but just not right.)

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Man 1 deliberately killed man 3 so he pushed/threw the something at man 2?

It's been established than man 1 accidentally killed man 3. But the rest is right. So if you dump that "deliberately" out of there, you've got it.

So, did man 1 push/throw the something at man 2? Yes.

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If man 1 didn't deliberately kill man 3 then he couldn't see that he was in the something.

Correct.

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But it wasn't a crate of ice. Was it some kind of container full of grocery deliveries with ice in to keep them fresh?

No.

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Was an illegal immigrant hiding in it?

ROTFLMAO!! I don't know if any of them were illegal immigrants or not. :p

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Did the wife order some shopping and the order came all wrong so the man threw the container of deliveries at the delivery guy in a rage?

No.

But that does bring up a good point that no one's asked why man 1 deliberately killed man 2.

I think I got my 2 and 3 slightly muddled up in there somewhere hence the confusion about the deiberately.

So, there is a guy in the apartment who throws something containing another guy out of the window killing a man outside. (the man he intended to kill).
The first guy dies of a heart attack. From the exertion?

So was a guy hiding in something in the apartment?

Was the guy on the pavement his accomplice in something that had happened?

Was the guy on the pavement an innocent bystander?

Was spying involved?

Was the guy on the pavement the victim of mistaken identity?

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So, there is a guy in the apartment who throws something containing another guy out of the window killing a man outside. (the man he intended to kill).
The first guy dies of a heart attack. From the exertion?

Yes, all correct.

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So was a guy hiding in something in the apartment?

Yes.

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Was the guy on the pavement his accomplice in something that had happened?

No.

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Was the guy on the pavement an innocent bystander?

Yes.

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Was spying involved?

No.

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Was the guy on the pavement the victim of mistaken identity?

Yes.

OK... I'm having a hard time dealing with an issue and am finally going to post something. I will only say it's something I think a little unfair but can't say why.

So I will say that you may have difficulty figuring out what the "something" is. I can tell by the questions being asked. I also can't say why this is.

So I am just going to say to stop worrying about the "something" for right now and simply know that it exists. I mean, you can try if you want to. But I'd rather concentrate on trying to get the rest of the circumstances, simply cause it's the fairest thing to do. We'll see how that goes, and I'll decide later what else I might explain.

Was Man 3 in a fridge? (=S)

Is the motive of killing Man 2 relevant?
- Did Man 1 think that Man 2 was having an affair with his wife?

Was the heart attack of Man 1 because the latter realised he killed an innocent?

Was the something a fridge? Refrigerator? Freezer?

Was Man 3 hiding from Man 1?
- Was he having an affair with Man 1's wife?

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Was Man 3 in a fridge? (=S)

Yes.

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Is the motive of killing Man 2 relevant?

Yes.

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- Did Man 1 think that Man 2 was having an affair with his wife?

Yes.

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Was the heart attack of Man 1 because the latter realised he killed an innocent?

No.

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Was the something a fridge? Refrigerator? Freezer?

Fridge or big freezer would do.

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Was Man 3 hiding from Man 1?
- Was he having an affair with Man 1's wife?

Yes and yes.

Ok, so most part fit in so far, besides the why behind the heart attack.

Man 1 knew somewhat that a man was having an affair with his wife. He got in the apartment, but man 3, who was the culprit, was hiding in a fridge. He knew that someone was here, but didn't know where. He glanced at his window to see a man underneath, thinking that he was the one. Maybe, Man 2 just then got out of the building. So, Man 1 pushed the fridge through his window, breaking the glass and causing it to fall on Man 2, who died then. The fridge slammed open, scattering ice on the pavement, with the now dead Man 3 inside.

So far so good?

Was Man 1 feeling guilty about what he just did?
Was he panicked?
Was the panic the source of his heart attack?

OK, since we now know we're down to some variation of detail, I'm going to get picky about detail. ;)

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Man 1 knew somewhat that a man was having an affair with his wife.

No, he didn't necessarily know already.

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He got in the apartment, but man 3, who was the culprit, was hiding in a fridge. He knew that someone was here, but didn't know where. He glanced at his window to see a man underneath, thinking that he was the one. Maybe, Man 2 just then got out of the building. So, Man 1 pushed the fridge through his window, breaking the glass and causing it to fall on Man 2, who died then. The fridge slammed open, scattering ice on the pavement, with the now dead Man 3 inside.

That part's pretty much there. There's a minor extra detail about Man 2 in there, but nothing important.

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So far so good?

Mostly.

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Was Man 1 feeling guilty about what he just did?
Was he panicked?
Was the panic the source of his heart attack?

Nope. (Although, since I get panic attacks, thankfully not for a few years, I could fully understand why panic would do that.)

Did the behaviour of his wife hint at Man 1 that she just had an affair?
Is that even relevant, lol?

Was Man 2 looking at Man 1 when he saw him down?

Was Man 1's heart attack caused by the death of any of the other man?
Was his heart attack due to his age?
Was his heart attack due to his wife?