Ask Me Help Desk - A riddle for you

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgaine300

Can you explain why?

No... Maybe unequal since she or he stirred it.

There is more white in the white.

If 5 mL of white was moved to the red, it was undiluted.

If 5mL of the red with white was moved over to the red, it wasn't 5mL of red.. it was mostly red, but a little white back.

More white is in the white.

***edited... proved to be wrong in my later posts***

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

there is more white in the white.

if 5 mL of white was moved to the red, it was undiluted.

if 5mL of the red with white was moved over to the red, it wasnt 5mL of red.. it was mostly red, but a little white back.

more white is in the white.

Smart alec:) How did you know that and is it the right?

Oops. Crap. wrong.

What worked in my head is wrong on paper.

First... you must assume that both transfers are equal in volume... that exactly the same volume was moved in both cases.

Then...

Lets pretend we have 100 mL of each wine in two glasses.

You take out 5 mL of white to the red. That's 105 mLs of wine in the "red" glass, 100 mL red with 5 mL white. Its 95.238% red.

Then you take 5 mL of this mixture to the white.

You add to 95 mL white 4.762 red and 0.228 mL white... for a total of 100 mL wine, but the composition is different... its just 95.228% white...

The reason is you are adding a mostly red aliquot to a lesser volume of white. The lesser volume of white is what got me mentally.

Pooh.

Shouldve done the math first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

oops. crap. wrong.

what worked in my head is wrong on paper.

first... you must assume that both transfers are equal in volume... that exactly the same volume was moved in both cases.

then...

lets pretend we have 100 mL of each wine in two glasses.

you take out 5 mL of white to the red. thats 105 mLs of wine in the "red" glass, 100 mL red with 5 mL white. its 95.238% red.

then you take 5 mL of this mixture to the white.

you add to 95 mL white 4.776 red and 0.224 mL white... for a total of 100 mL wine, but the composition is different... its just 95.224% white...

the reason is you are adding in a mostly red aliquot to a lesser volume.

pooh.

shouldve done the math first.

The stirring has something to do with it.

My head hurts.

Can we do an English riddle/problem? Math is not my strong point, and no, I'm not willing to learn. ;)

So... I was wrong at first... the red is more red percentage wise.

Unless the transfers weren't perfectly equal. Forgot to ask if a proper dialed pipette was used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

so... i was wrong at first... the red is more red percentage wise.

unless the transfers werent perfectly equal. forgot to ask if a proper dialed pipette was used.

Analytical or what?:p

The stirring ensures consistent concentration.

If I add a little something to a lot of something else and don't stir, I cannot take a sample of it and have it be representative of the whole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

the stirring ensures consistent concentration.

if i add a little something to a lot of something else and dont stir, i cannot take a sample of it and have it be representative of the whole.

But wouldn't some of the wine evaporate in the stirring? Or does wine evaporate?:confused:

Anyone who was worked with analytical chemical glassware knows they must mix and mix and mix to ensure proper, uh, mixing... and therefore, consistent concentration throughout the sample, no matter where you sample.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

anyone who was worked with analytical chemical glassware knows they must mix and mix and mix to ensure proper, uh, mixing... and therefore, consistent concentration throughout the sample, no matter where you sample.

Okay Bill Nye,:p what's the answer?:)

The only thing I know is that I now want a glass of wine. I don't care if it's shaken, stirred, or mixed, I just want it in a glass. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

The only thing I know is that I now want a glass of wine. I don't care if it's shaken, stirred, or mixed, I just want it in a glass. :)

I knew you were going to say that:eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat22

But wouldn't some of the wine evaporate in the stirring? Or does wine evaporate?:confused:

Ethanol doesn't evaporate that fast, and in water, it forms an azeotrope that boils off at a higher bp than pure... but I'm pretty damn sure this riddle has nothing to do with azeotropic mixtures...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat22

I knew you were gonna say that:eek:

Crap! Am I that predictable? :eek:

So much for being an original. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

ethanol doesnt evaporate that fast, and in water, it forms an azeotrope that boils off at a higher bp than pure... but im pretty damn sure this riddle has nothing to do with azeotropic mixtures...

You lost me at azeotrope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

You lost me at azeotrope.

I think it's a big furry animal. Azeotrope.:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat22

Okay Bill Nye,:p what's the answer?:)

My first answer, more white in the white, was wrong.

It was wrong because I didn't crunch the numbers.

The fact that the white was a lower volume added to was the difference.

...

Got to love us chemists.

Our work makes for great party fodder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

my first answer, more white in the white, was wrong.

it was wrong because i didnt crunch the numbers.

the fact that the white was a lower volume added to was the difference.

...

gotta love us chemists.

our work makes for great party fodder.

She said they were the same amount. How can a white wine and red wine in the same size glasses not have the same volume?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

You lost me at azeotrope.

Yes. Id use that word to confuse and then seduce young women when teaching at the university.

(kidding)

Now... can I interest you in a lecture on how the length of hydrocarbon compounds can dramatically change the physical properties? Meaning, size does matter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

yes. id use that word to confuse and then seduce young women when teaching at the university.

(kidding)

now... can i interest you in a lecture on how the length of hydrocarbon compounds can dramatically change the physical properties? meaning, size does matter?

Oh sweetie (tis is kp putting the moves on) you have a nice set of azeotropes.:o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat22

She said they were the same amount. How can a white wine and red wine in the same size glasses not have the same volume?

I assume they started with the same volume. Without that assumption, this is just unanswerable.

but when you take out 5 mL from one and put it in the other... the original white now has just 95 mLs.

I know its hard to get.

I'm good at this stuff and my instinct answer was off.

if all the reasonable assumptions are right... equal starting volumes and equal transfers, the math is the bottom line. White wins for higherst % by a smidge.

if the assumptions are wrong... k... too many variables for my liking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

i assume they started with the same volume. without that assumption, this is just unanswerable.

but when you take out 5 mL from one and put it in the other... the original white now has just 95 mLs.

i know its hard to get.

im good at this stuff and my instinct answer was off.

if all the reasonable assumptions are right... equal starting volumes and equal transfers, the math is the bottom line. white wins for higherst % by a smidge.

if the assumptions are wrong... k.... too many variables for my liking.

Okay... I'll take your word for it.:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat22

Oh sweetie (tis is kp putting the moves on) you have a nice set of azeotropes.:o

Fyi... there can be threesome (tertiary) azeotropic mixtures... just saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat22

Okay ...I'll take your word for it.:)

Nope. Take the poster word for it.

I'm just the idiot with a keyboard thinking he knows the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

nope. take the poster word for it.

im just the idiot with a keyboard thinking he knows the answer.

You're no idiot! :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

yes. id use that word to confuse and then seduce young women when teaching at the university.

(kidding)

now... can i interest you in a lecture on how the length of hydrocarbon compounds can dramatically change the physical properties? meaning, size does matter?

LOL! Sure, bring it on. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kp2171

oops. crap. wrong.

what worked in my head is wrong on paper.

first... you must assume that both transfers are equal in volume... that exactly the same volume was moved in both cases.

then...

lets pretend we have 100 mL of each wine in two glasses.

you take out 5 mL of white to the red. thats 105 mLs of wine in the "red" glass, 100 mL red with 5 mL white. its 95.238% red.

then you take 5 mL of this mixture to the white.

you add to 95 mL white 4.762 red and 0.228 mL white... for a total of 100 mL wine, but the composition is different... its just 95.228% white...

the reason is you are adding in a mostly red aliquot to a lesser volume of white. the lesser volume of white is what got me mentally.

pooh.

shouldve done the math first.

Okay, either it is too late and my one glass of wine did me in (not unusual), or you have a slight math error.

I worked it out as follows:

You start with 100 ml of white and 100 ml of red.
5 ml of white is moved to the red, so you now have 95 ml of white, and 100 ml of red with 5 ml of white added.
If you take 5 mil of this mix, 4.762 ml (=100/105*5) will be red and .238 (=5/105*5) ml will be white. This gets added to the 95 ml of white.

The original white is now (95 ml+ .238 ml) 95.238 ml white and 4.762 ml red.
The red mixture is now (100 ml-4.762 ml) 95.238 ml red and (5 ml-.238ml) 4.762 ml white.

They are equal.

In looking at your numbers, when you add the 5 ml to the 95, the correct numbers should be 4.762 and .238. It looks like a math error – as 4.762+.228 does not equal the 5 ml you are transferring, or another way to look at it is 95+4.762+.228= 99.99, not 100.

Please tell me I haven't embarrassed myself. :o

I just want to know where my wine is! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I just want to know where my wine is! ;)

It's sitting in front of me. One glass is pretty much my limit, so help yourself. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Looking

It's sitting in front of me. One glass is pretty much my limit, so help yourself. ;)

Goody, goody, goody.

Cheers! :)

Nowr breeng on anotherrrr riddle. Hiccup. :)

If it takes ten men 3 hours to dig one hole, how many men does it take to dig half a hole in the same amount of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Looking

If it takes ten men 3 hours to dig one hole, how many men does it take to dig half a hole in the same amount of time.

Silly girl, men don't dig holes, they make their wives do that. :p

Is the answer 5?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Silly girl, men don't dig holes, they make their wives do that. :p

Is the answer 5?

I could make so many funny comments, but I won't. See - I told you... one glass of wine and I'm a goner already.

Anyway, no, not 5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Looking

I could make so many funny comments (men don't dig holes), but I won't. See - I told you ... one glass of wine and I'm a goner already.

Anyway, no, not 5.

2?

1?

They hired another crew?

10?

Math bites the big one! ;)

Give up? It's really a dumb riddle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Looking

Give up? It's really a dumb riddle.

I totally give up.

Give me answer! Give me! I am knot a blonde! ;)

You can't dig half a hole! It would just be a different sized hole

I know - dumb. Somehow it made me giggle... it's that one glass of wine. I'm such a cheap date. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Looking

You can't dig half a hole! It would just be a different sized hole

I know - dumb. Somehow it made me giggle ... it's that one glass of wine. I'm such a cheap date. :p

::banging head on desk repeatedly::

Why didn't I see that?

Must be the wine you gave me.

Ya, that's right, I blame you! ;) :D