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Originally Posted by Rookeek

When you will have my metabolism, you will understand... ups.. you wont. So we will disagree for ever.

I've seen some bad stuff on about.com and wont trust it.

Plus remember that BMR is only minimal amount of cals needed, with a little movement, if you are active and have a physical job, 500 cals are necessary...

I'm not the only one who promotes clean bulk, even better, guy like Vince Del Monte promotes Bulking for skinny guys. He says clean bulk is not enough.

What I gave are the basics for gaining muscle. Eating 200 cals over BMR wont help you gain a lot.

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Hm, you are quite the ignorant young man aren't you? You have no problem listening to information displayed on a bodybuilding website that is trying to sell you their product but you remain confident and delusional while talking to a Professional bodybuilder who has been training people almost all his life. Vince Del Monte is scrawny and all he wants is for people to buy his product.

As for the "Metabolism" comment.. why do you assume that I have never experienced a fast metabolism? Do you know my history of when I was a child/ teenager? Doubt it, unless you researched me online.. still the information would obviously of been misleading.

I started bodybuilding when I was 17 years old, at 150 pounds. I had a very fast metabolism as I used to eat 6-7 meals a day while boxing, playing hockey, football and working out.

I didn't gain a lot of weight at this time. It was due to my LBM (Lean body mass). The more Lean Body Mass you have, the higher your metabolism is going to be. As well, Age effects your metabolism (After 20 years it starts to slow down by 2% every year), Height (More surface to cover.. usually a higher LBM index), Genetic make up and Eating Habits (The more you eat the faster it will be).

Rookeek, at 130 pounds.. if you worked out for an hour (which is the most you should be weight lifting for), you would only of burned 180 calories. This is 1/3 of the amount of calories you are telling everyone to consume, EVEN on rest days where activity is minimum.

You are confusing calories with protein, I believe.

Think about it this way; Calories are the energy to rip and tear muscle, protein is the bandaid to fix and repair it.

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Originally Posted by CanadianCrook

Hm, you are quite the ignorant young man aren't you? You have no problem listening to information displayed on a bodybuilding website that is trying to sell you their product but you remain confident and delusional while talking to a Professional bodybuilder who has been training people almost all his life. Vince Del Monte is scrawny and all he wants is for people to buy his product.

As for the "Metabolism" comment.. why do you assume that I have never experienced a fast metabolism? Do you know my history of when I was a child/ teenager? Doubt it, unless you researched me online.. still the information would obviously of been misleading.

I started bodybuilding when I was 17 years old, at 150 pounds. I had a very fast metabolism as I used to eat 6-7 meals a day while boxing, playing hockey, football and working out.

I didn't gain a lot of weight. It was due to my LBM (Lean body mass). The more Lean Body Mass you have, the higher your metabolism is going to be. Aswell, Age effects your metabolism (After 20 years it starts to slow down by 2% every years), Height (More surface to cover .. usually a higher LBM index, Genetic make up and Eating Habits (The more you eat the faster it will be).

Rookeek, at 130 pounds .. if you worked out for an hour (which is the most you shuold be weight lifting for), you would only of burned 180 calories. This is 1/3 of the amount of calories you are telling everyone to consume, EVEN on rest days where activity is minimum.

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Del Monte is scrawny?? Have you seen his before/after pics? Yes he sells stuff but he has helped a lot of guys

Man... there is no way I'm going to believe you bodybuild professionally and eat 200 grams per day over your BMR...

No wonder you didn't gain with that much activity, you might not have had that fast metabolism, just too much cardio..

I'll be back later..

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Originally Posted by Rookeek

Del Monte is scrawny???? have you seen his before/after pics? yes he sells stuff but he has helped a lot of guys

Man... there is no way I'm gonna believe you bodybuild professionally and eat 200 grams per day over your BMR...

No wonder you didn't gain with that much activity, you might not have had that fast metabolism, just too much cardio..

I'll be back later..

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Yes, Del Monte is scrawny and if lucky might qualify for a middle weight class in a Natural Bodybuilding Contest.

I am not sure where I said I intake "200 calories over my BMR" I believe I said quote "I intake about 700 calories more then my BMR is, BUT I am a professional Bodybuilder." And grams is used to represent the weight of the food, 200 grams of calories would be almost impossible to calculate as every food has a different attribute to it (like turkey has more proteins then soda or Can Soup has more sodium then a banana.. ).

Cardiovascular activity effects how fast your metabolism is, as does how much food your body intakes.

If you are only 130 pounds, I would like you to take the time to type out what your diet looks like, your workout regime and any physical experience that would relate to how your body functions (like climbing stairs = 4 calories, sex = 500 calories etc.. ).

Does it make me a perv if hearing you two debate this is kind of hot? :confused::confused::confused:

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Originally Posted by CanadianCrook

Yes, Del Monte is scrawny and if lucky might qualify for a middle weight class in a Natural Bodybuilding Contest.

I am not sure where I said I intake "200 calories over my BMR" I believe I said quote "I intake about 700 calories more then my BMR is, BUT I am a professional Bodybuilder." And grams is used to represent the weight of the food, 200 grams of calories would be almost impossible to calculate as every food has a different attribute to it (like turkey has more proteins then soda or Can Soup has more sodium then a banana..).

Cardiovascular activity effects how fast your metabolism is, as does how much food your body intakes.

If you are only 130 pounds, I would like you to take the time to type out what your diet looks like, your workout regime and any physical experience that would relate to how your body functions (like climbing stairs = 4 calories, sex = 500 calories etc..).

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Man, not everyone wants to get as big as possible and compete.. So keep that competing stuff away. Most of the simple people want to just look good in the mirror.

Ok, my bad, I believe you suggested 200 cals for other guy. So do the maths, Eat at your BMR and you will maintain your weight. If a guy follows your advice he eats 200 cals more and that is similar to what he will burn off in the gym. So from what will he gain? Huh? Thin air? Then add calories he burns at work, sex, etc. Still think he should eat 200cals over maintenance level? Or should he eat at least 500 cals over maintenance level?

You grow when you rest you know, so this means you need caloric surplus just as much on rest days as on workout days.

And I don't get what is hard to count. 200 cals is 50 grams of either proteins or carbs.

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Originally Posted by Chey5782

Does it make me a perv if hearing you two debate this is kind of hot? :confused::confused::confused:

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Lol

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Originally Posted by Rookeek

Man, not everyone wants to get as big as possible and compete.. So keep that competing stuff away. Most of the simple people want to just look good in the mirror.

Ok, my bad, I believe you suggested 200 cals for other guy. So do the maths, Eat at your BMR and you will maintain your weight. If a guy follows your advice he eats 200 cals more and that is similar to what he will burn off in the gym. So from what will he gain? huh? Thin air? Then add calories he burns at work, sex, etc. Still think he should eat 200cals over maintenance level? Or should he eat at least 500 cals over maintenance level?

You grow when you rest you know, so this means you need caloric surplus just as much on rest days as on workout days.

And I don't get what is hard to count. 200 cals is 50 grams of either proteins or carbs.

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You are not listening to what I am saying. I suggested that "you eat 3-400 calories on workout days" and "1-200 calories" on rest days. Why do you want to consume more calories then you are burning.. this does not make sense? Do you want to gain fat? Because that is what will happen.

You DO NOT need extra calories when you are resting.. your muscles do not need extra energy to grow.

Calories are burned from our body through a metabolic process; enzymes break up carbohydrates into glucose and other forms of sugars, the proteins into amino acids and the fats into glycerol and fatty acids. When you are resting you do not need to intake extra calories, the amount of calories for your BMR is stationary but you should consume as much as you need prior to your day (if you are doing more physical activity then intake enough for that).

And yes 200 calories can be split many ways as Fat contains 9 calories, Protein contains 4 calories and Carbohydrates contain 4 calories. So all in all 200 calories could be a mix of all three and are. As you cannot have one without the other.

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Originally Posted by CanadianCrook

You are not listening to what I am saying. I suggested that "you eat 3-400 calories on workout days" and "1-200 calories" on rest days. Why do you want to consume more calories then you are burning.. this does not make sense? Do you want to gain fat?? Because that is what will happen.

You DO NOT need extra calories when you are resting.. your muscles do not need extra energy to grow.

Calories are burned from our body through a metabolic process; enzymes break up carbohydrates into glucose and other forms of sugars, the proteins into amino acids and the fats into glycerol and fatty acids. When you are resting you do not need to intake extra calories, the amount of calories for your BMR is stationary but you should consume as much as you need prior to your day (if you are doing more physical activity then intake enough for that).

And yes 200 calories can be split many ways as Fat contains 9 calories, Protein contains 4 calories and Carbohydrates contain 4 calories. So all in all 200 calories could be a mix of all three and are. As you cannot have one without the other.

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Lol... first time ever I hear that you don't need to get caloric surplus on off days... not one nutrition specialist said that (that I know of)... You NEED calories and proteins on off days because you GAIN on off days. How would your muscles grow if you didn't give them fuel to do so?? You won't gain fat... protein synthesis is up for 24 hours after training session, so this means it lasts into rest day also!!

BTW, combine the food amount from all the 7 days and divide them by 7. Let's compare the average with my theory of eating 500 cals over maintenance level.

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Originally Posted by Rookeek

Lol... first time ever I hear that you don't need to get caloric surplus on off days... not one nutrition specialist said that (that I know of)... You NEED calories and proteins on off days because you GAIN on off days. How would your muscles grow if you didn't give them fuel to do so???? You wont gain fat... protein synthesis is up for 24 hours after training session, so this means it lasts into rest day also!!!!

BTW, combine the food amount from all the 7 days and divide them by 7. Let's compare the average with my theory of eating 500 cals over maintenance level.

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You don't need extra calories.. the caloric intake you are using (your BMR or 1-200 calories more) is sufficient. Your body will continue to use calories and electrolytes but this is mainly when you sleep. Anything more then what is needed the next day will be stored as fat.

You need protein on off days, and your BMR caloric count to help convert proteins into amino acids successfully. An Amino acid is a molecule that contains amine and carboxyl functional groups which form links to create proteins. Calories are used in our body when enzymes break up the proteins into Amino acids. You can only work out hard enough to be able to convert "this much protein" into "these many amino acids." AFTER that.. your calories will be like "Okay.. the job is done, now its time to sleep".. and WALLA, you just gained some fat reserves!

You do NOT need extra calories (4.184 joules of energy) to convert Proteins into (-NH 2 ). It doesn't make sense!

Sudhaji,
Don't think extra , don't bother, do break fast, lunch dinner, with free mind, and keep smile every time, only 2 months, will make difference, best of luck, byeeeeeeeee

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Originally Posted by CanadianCrook

You don't need extra calories.. the caloric intake you are using (your BMR or 1-200 calories more) is sufficient. Your body will continue to use calories and electrolytes but this is mainly when you sleep. Anything more then what is needed the next day will be stored as fat.

You need protein on off days, and your BMR caloric count to help convert proteins into amino acids successfully. An Amino acid is a molecule that contains amine and carboxyl functional groups which form links to create proteins. Calories are used in our body when enzymes break up the proteins into Amino acids. You can only work out hard enough to be able to convert "this much protein" into "these many amino acids." AFTER that.. your calories will be like "Okay.. the job is done, now its time to sleep".. and WALLA, you just gained some fat reserves!!

You do NOT need extra calories (4.184 joules of energy) to convert Proteins into (-NH 2 ). It doesn't make sense!

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I'm not talking about converting proteins to something.. jesus... I'm talking that your organism has better change of using proteins for building muscle for 24 hours after a workout.. You are missing a point..

Again, how can 200 cals over BMR be enough when you have job, sex, walking, other stuff going on in life in addition to lifting? You will burn that off easily and won't gain a thing.. You are somewhat delusional. BMR doesn't take these things into account. That's why I advocate 500 cals over maintenance level.

You also must be paranoid about fat.. guess what.. you are always gaining a bit of fat with gaining muscle. You can NOT only gain muscle or only lose fat... when your body is in anabolic state you gain both fat and muscle (lifting helps gain more muscle) and when you are in catabolic state you lose both, fat and muscle (although muscle loss can be minimized)...

I'm tired of arguing with you. You know a lot but you don't use it the right way... If you were right, I'd be fatass guy already... BUT I'm not, so rethink your strategy of bulking up.

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Originally Posted by Rookeek

I'm not talking about converting proteins to something.. jesus... I'm talking that your organism has better change of using proteins for building muscle for 24 hours after a workout.. You are missing a point..

Again, how can 200 cals over BMR be enough when you have job, sex, walking, other stuff going on in life in addition to lifting? You will burn that off easily and won't gain a thing.. You are somewhat delusional. BMR doesn't take these things into account. That's why I advocate 500 cals over maintenance level.

You also must be paranoid about fat.. guess what.. you are always gaining a bit of fat with gaining muscle. You can NOT only gain muscle or only lose fat... when your body is in anabolic state you gain both fat and muscle (lifting helps gain more muscle) and when you are in catabolic state you lose both, fat and muscle (although muscle loss can be minimized)...

I'm tired of arguing with you. You know a lot but you don't use it the right way... If you were right, I'd be fatass guy already... BUT I'm not, so rethink your strategy of bulking up.

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Just for a conversation piece, here I am in 06 at CBBF/ Nationals. I must of gained AT LEAST 30 pounds of muscle with the 700+ calorie intake prior to my BMR.


http://i32.tinypic.com/2vajh3k.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/316182o.jpg

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Again, how can 200 cals over BMR be enough when you have job, sex, walking, other stuff going on in life in addition to lifting? You will burn that off easily and won't gain a thing.. You are somewhat delusional.

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but you should consume as much as you need prior to your day (if you are doing more physical activity then intake enough for that).

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You are only half listening to what I am saying!

I have no problem letting you stay ignorant and misguided when it comes to building muscle and bulking up. BUT unfortunately.. there are more eyes viewing this page then just us two and for me to let you tell everyone incorrect information, I would feel bad. I don't know who you are listening to, what you are reading or doing. BUT the arguments and "facts" you are laying down are of most likely some bimbo trying to sell you some miraculous product. I can tell this by the misguided information you are bringing up.

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but you don't use it the right way... If you were right, I'd be fatass guy already... BUT I'm not, so rethink your strategy of bulking up.

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This is blasphemy, only on the internet would the client tell the doctor what's up.

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Originally Posted by CanadianCrook

Just for a conversation piece, here I am in 06 at CBBF/ Nationals. I must of gained AT LEAST 30 pounds of muscle with the 700+ calorie intake prior to my BMR.


http://i32.tinypic.com/2vajh3k.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/316182o.jpg


You are only half listening to what I am saying!!

I have no problem letting you stay ignorant and misguided when it comes to building muscle and bulking up. BUT unfortunately.. there are more eyes viewing this page then just us two and for me to let you tell everyone incorrect information, I would feel bad. I don't know who you are listening to, what you are reading or doing. BUT the arguments and "facts" you are laying down are of most likely some bimbo trying to sell you some miraculous product. I can tell this by the misguided information you are bringing up.



This is blasphemy, only on the internet would the client tell the doctor whats up.

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So since you are a bodybuilder you know freaking everything, yeah? Don't be arrogant...

Don't know how long did it take you to gain those 30lbs, maybe 3 years..

I am not selling any products, just my experience. Which happens to be learned from guys like Rippetoe, L. McDonald, J.Berardi, T-Nation and other using their methods.

Prior to your BMR?? What do you think BMR is? And how do you calculate it, because this is where we might have misunderstanding..

Consistency is a big and very important word in gaining muscle, you take it away from nutrition which is 60-70 percent of gaining muscle. That is my problem. I think people need to eat consistently and not just eat a lot on workout days...

What do I think BMR Is? Or how do I calculate it? Hm? Go to my thread;

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/fitness/you-want-lose-body-fat-healthy-way-come-here-380692.html

And yes, since I am a NATURAL bodybuilder and have been all my life. I like to think I know a thing or two about bulking up correctly.

As for the "30 pounds" I gained 30 pounds in a year.

You don't necessarily need to eat " a lot" everyday, and you shouldn't. You should be eating within a boundary and not just pig out.

And you are right, nutrition is around 70% of building muscle. You are correct. However 500 calories over your BMR is not needed. It may be wise for uneducated beginners so they make sure they gain muscle and don't lose any. But in reality it really isn't accurate. It is like telling the new driver to stay within the three way road and not to go over on either edge instead of just telling them to stay in the middle.

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Originally Posted by CanadianCrook

What do I think BMR Is? Or how do I calculate it? Hm?? Go to my thread;

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/fitness/you-want-lose-body-fat-healthy-way-come-here-380692.html

And yes, since I am a NATURAL bodybuilder and have been all my life. I like to think I know a thing or two about bulking up correctly.

As for the "30 pounds" I gained 30 pounds in a year.

You don't necessarily need to eat " a lot" everyday, and you shouldn't. You should be eating within a boundary and not just pig out.

And you are right, nutrition is around 70% of building muscle. You are correct. However 500 calories over your BMR is not needed. It may be wise for uneducated beginners so they make sure they gain muscle and don't lose any. But in reality it really isn't accurate. It is like telling the new driver to stay within the three way road and not to go over on either edge instead of just telling them to stay in the middle.

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Can't open the link.. shows 404 error page... And it's actually me who suggest to use 3 lanes not you, you say that my approach to nutrition is extreme and too much.

Now, were two ways I knew people bulk up - Bulk and Clean Bulk. One gets you gains faster but gets a lot of fat too and the you need to cut (Bulking, and you eat pretty much everything in sight there) and then Clean Bulking which is eating 500 cals over your BMR (still might gain a bit fat, but no need for cutting). The extreme way of the two is Bulking. Not Clean Bulking.. You offer third way. Which has holes in my opinion. In the end all 3 works... it's matter of choice.

Edit: I used the link in your signature. My method gives number about a 1000 cals bigger than yours. This would mean 2lbs of fat gained in a week according to you... and this is not happening, never gained that much of weight. I haven't actually gained more than 3lbs in month so this goes against your theory. I don't think there is solution to this, only 3 different methods.

Yep. Makes me pervy.

Anyhow. Roo I am sorry to tell you that he is right. You aren't even trying to absorb anything he is saying, you are just quoting a bunch of crap you learned from charlatans. It's comparable to thinking Billy Mayes invented Oxyclean.

If you two really want to debate this take it to a thread in the forum :P

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Originally Posted by Chey5782

Yep. Makes me pervy.

Anyhow. Roo I am sorry to tell you that he is right. You aren't even trying to absorb anything he is saying, you are just quoting a bunch of crap you learned from charlatans. It's comparable to thinking Billy Mayes invented Oxyclean.

If you two really want to debate this take it to a thread in the forum :P

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That "charlatan" stuff works, you probably haven't read anything from people I mention and know nothing about them.

You trust him more, OK, do what he says... He has his formula I got mine... the method I use is quite common and worked for a lot of people.

This is a good article about bulking:
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a..._about_bulking

Have time? Give it a read..

I can always tell when people on this site are younger, they go right for the insults.

I actually know quite a bit about weight gain. I spent the first two years of my daughters life taking her to dietitians and having tests done on her because of her inability to absorb nutrients properly. I'm not much on the exercise part of weight gain. But I have no doubt I have more real life experience with this than you do with Google and reading a few books and gaining 30 pounds. Try using your own words to explain a point you so adamantly believe in rather than links to articles. It goes a lot further when it comes to real advice. Anyone can read a book, it takes more than looking at letters to understand it. ;)

As the OP hasn't returned as this is going way off topic it is now Closed