I am tha father of an 11 year old girl, I am waiting to have a joint-custody hearing, set on 9-24-09, mother refuses to let me visit with child until then, even though judge at the protective order we had, denied her orders and advised mother to let me continue to see my child as I've been doing before, she has totally ignored the judge and is refusing visitation, I've already filed something called a permente lite visitation form what else can I do? My phone numbers has been blocked out mothers in an attempt to stop all communication, but daughter manages to call sometmes when she get my sister to hook us up on twoway. What can I do legally to see my child now? I don't want to play tug of war, that'ts not good for my child.

At this time you have to go with what's court ordered and follow the directions of the court. If the judge suggested but didn't put it down as you get in specifics then your stuck waiting until the hearing. Im figuring that you have already made a plea asking for time ? Is that what this hearing is going to be about is custody and visitation ? That will be the time to address the parental alienation problem. Also try to have a solid plan when asking for days with your child and make sure they are reasonable to be met. In some states visitation/custody time is directly tied to the child support paid. Be aware of that. Also be aware of overnights. Sometimes to provide balance you may need to give up overnights during the school year and get blocks of time during the summer as a trade off. Try to be reasonable but don't lay down on anything.

This is your child also.

I hear what your saying about giving up time during schoolyear, but that wouldn't work in my case, mother works two full time jobs ,seven days a week. I do the homework pick, her up most days from school, Feed her dinner before returning her to her mothers house around 9:00 P.M. at night so she can be ready for school next day, mother does not get off until 1200 midnight and that's from 800 in the morning. She has two sons 16 and 14, to whom I drop her off to at her home. I myself live only 4 minutes away from child. Mother spends what little time she does have off away from home, when my daughter is at her mothers there is almost always no parental supervision, mothers social life seems to take presedence over her children ,only the 11 yearold girl is mine. She forces my daughter to sray home with her even though she begs to stay with me, I"ll bring her home and she"ll (mother) will go right out the door once I bring her home, so thus the joint custody tial came into effect. I was told by a lot of people to keep a journal of all the times I've been denied visitsitation, I did that how do I introduce that in court Do I have it put in my files

I would like to know what things should I do ,and what information do I need to give me the best chance to get joint custody of my daughter. I'm been involve in every aspect of her life, all her life. I have always financially supported her, carried her on my medical insurance and still do, but unfortunetly I never kept records of anything, because I never thought in a million years I would have to. I also pay half school tuition every month since she's been going to school. I'm responsible for 65% of all her cloths, Somebody out there tell me something! I don't have much time left before I go to court. I don't think I'm going to be able to afford a lawer.

Still waiting for a response, I see all this advice being passed around on this web-site I could use some of it. I am sincere about fighting for my right to continue to be in my daughters life, mother sole reason for all of this is revenge ,with her only weapon my child. SOMEBODY GIVE A REAL FATHER SOME HELP! THE COURT SYSTEM SEEMS LIKE A JOKE AS FAR AS A FATHERS RIGHT GOES... IT'S TRUE WHAT THEY SAY, ONE THE MOST VIOLATED RIGHTS IS THAT OF A FATHERS...

First you need to be patient with this site. You posted a follow-up only this morning. The people who answer questions volunteer their time and may not see your follow-up for several hours.

I'm a little confused about what you have posted. You state you are awaiting a "joint custody" hearing. But if you have visitation rights, then its likely you already have joint legal custody. Are you looking for joint physical custody so you will have her approximately half the time?

You also state that you generally pick the child up from school, help her with her homework, then drop her off at the mother's home. That would seem to indicate that you do see the child or did the mother stop the practice you describe. If so, how does she stop you? Did she tell the school not to allow you to pick her up? If so, just show the school the judges order and that will counteract that.

As for your diatribe about father's rights, I don't know if its misplaced or not. Your daughter is 11 and you have not given any background as to how she came to be born or what has happened in the intervening 11 years. Without knowing the history its hard to judge.

In the OP you said; "even though judge at the protective order we had, denied her orders and advised mother to let me continue to see my child as i've been doing before". If the mother is ignoring the judge's order then you go back to the judge and ask him to find her in contempt. Have you done so? I also go back to the "as i've been doing before" comment. How is the mother preventing you from picking your daughter up from school? I just don't understand that.

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Originally Posted by mrgarybennett

still waiting for a response, i see all this advice being passed around on this web-site i could use some of it. i am sincere about fighting for my right to continue to be in my daughters life, mother sole reason for all of this is revenge ,with her only weapon my child. SOMEBODY GIVE A REAL FATHER SOME HELP! THE COURT SYSTEM SEEMS LIKE A JOKE AS FAR AS A FATHERS RIGHT GOES.... IT'S TRUE WHAT THEY SAY, ONE THE MOST VIOLATED RIGHTS IS THAT OF A FATHERS...

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Not everyone on this site is familiar with law.When the legal experts see this they will respond.
Please be patient,you will get answers.

I need to ask before this goes further. What state is this in ?

First of all let me apologize to anyone I offended with my impatience,I just seem to be grasping straws. The state I live in is Maryland. First let me say that my daughters mother and I have not been together romanticly in over 3 years, but we have always remained close. Up until about a year ago. I have a close relationship with all 4 of her children, only the youngest is mine. The things I've quoted in the other post are all the things I've done for all of them every since I became involve with mother. About a year ago my daughters mother started dating again, which is fine we'll all entitled to a social life, I have no problem with that. The problem started when she started not coming home, she works two full-time jobs and what little time she has off she spends it away from home. I tried talking to her about it but to no avail. I only live 5 minutes from her house I told her to just drop her off when she wants to hang out all night and next day, while either of her sons have to watch her, she'd rather do that then let me know she's not home. We had a huge augument and it resulted in her putting protective orders so I could not see my child nor her and placing a bogus domestic violence charge against me telling the police I pushed her and she fell, when the truth of the matter is I was giving my daughter a sleepover because it was her birthday with three of her little friends, when mother dropped her off to me, words exchange and she decided that my daughter couldn't stay over, my child began to cry telling her mother she wanted to stay with me and she began acting like a fool, She began punching and pulling I pushed her away and got in my car and left to pick up her friends. The next morning while I had those 4 girls I was arrested; she was standing on the corner smiling as they took me away, all 4 children refuse to ride with her. At the protective hearing the judge heard my story, and mother ammitted that my version was the truth. The judge then advised her to stop acting like a child, orders were denied and she was to let me see my child as I had been before, even though my daughters address is not the same as mine she is with me most of the time because mother is working two jobs weekdays and weekends. The next day after orders were denied, unknown to me she had filed for sole legal and physical custody. After a week had passed I filed for join't custody because she was denying visitation, that's when I found out about the case she filed. Anyway she screwed up something on her forms and the case we are hearing is mine. Even though she filed first. In the case she filed she ask for childsupport;shelter,copays,school tution,mecdical,cloths,and for me to have supervised visitation, I kid you not! And her reasons for wanting this and I'm typing this from actual form (his health is deteorating) I have sugar-diebeties and high bloodpressure. The other reason is (Ithat I put mental pressure on child making her remind me to take my medication) THAT'S IT! All my child does is call me without fail or tell me when with to take my meds, she does that on her own. Since then June 26 I have seen my daughter only 4 times for a grand total of 20 hours altogether. I have begged, pleaded,went to police to see if I just went and got her could I be arrested and he said as long as there was no court order saying who had who when I could not be arrested. I seriously thought about it but decided not to , my child has been through enough because this will surly cause confrontation with mothter, she will not talk to my family members anymore, that's how I got her the few times I did. She doesn't even bother to give reasons.WHEW! That's the whole story, you needed more that's all of it. I like to say in advance thank you for bearing with me and giving me some advice I sure could use it, just lost brother 2 months ago don't want to lose my little heart (daughter)

OK, First, I think she has little chance to win her custody case. All you need to do is show the results of the protective orders case where she admitted to lying and I doubt that a judge will grant her anything. The only thing I would say is, if she retains an attorney (if she screwed up the forms I doubt if she has one) then you should be represented by counsel too.

As to seeing your daughter. I would file a request for an emergency temporary visitation order. If you show that you have been practicing such visitation for a number of years and that the mother is now denying it, you should be able to get something from a judge that would have the police support your visitation.

Then when the hearing comes, the judge will make the order permanent as well as give you joint physical and legal custody. At least that's my opinion based on the facts as you have related them.

Make sure you document everything. The previous parenting plan, the incidents that gave rise to the current court battle, your health, everything.

I also asked some questions about the current arrangement. Where you pick the child up from school then bring her to the mother in the evening. What's to stop you from continuing that arrangement? Are you afraid, if you do, she will charge you with kidnapping? Are you listed on her birth certificate as the legal father?

Yes thank you, your answers have been helpful. To answer your question when I pick her up from school I pick her up from grandmothers house(mothers mother) at 4pm child gets out at 315pm. My job is only 2 minutes from grandmothers house. I have not picked her up since this all happened because she has been out for the summer, I have no idea what will happen once school starts back next 8-31-09. I honestly can't remember if I signed birth certificate or not, was there to help deliver child , but can't remember if I signed something. And yes I'm afraid mother will try to charge me with something or at the very least show up at my door ready to start something, and I don't want to get into it with her. Oh, by the way did I mention that mother and I work for the same employer, we have been since we've met. So far there haven't been any comfrontations because I try my best to avoid her, that's why I can't understand why she's doing this, if I wasn't taking care of my child as she seems to be implying, she knows where to send child-support people. She's familiar with the system because she has a previous children's fathers there, all three of them, yes 4 children and 4 different babies daddys. Hope this clears things up for you. One more thing I've spoken to a few of the schools teachers and they said they would give me a letter stating that I amm always involved in my child's education and extra school activities like her dance recitals and school plays as well as tutoring classes, will this help my case and if so how do I introduce this and other information to the court system, do I have placed in my files or just bring it to court with me?

Oh yeah, I'm sorry my little girl just turned 11 years old, I don't believe I mentioned her age, can I request a heartng for somebody from the judicial system to talk to her about how she feels? She is a mature young girl and can speak her own mind.

Can't believe I said that, I mentioned her age on the first sentence of my first post, oh well stressed out. Question still valid though.

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Originally Posted by mrgarybennett

Oh yeah, i'm sorry my little girl just turned 11 years old, i don't believe i mentioned her age, can i request a heartng for somebody from the judical system to talk to her about how she feels? She is a mature young girl and can speak her own mind.

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Is there a guardian ad litem assigned to your case? Perhaps s/he can recommend a counselor that your daughter can see. That's what the GAL in my husband's case did; we're taking the kids in on Monday.

I agree with This8384. I would certainly ask that a GAL be appointed ASAP.

I would also make sure you have a copy of her birth certificate. I gather that, for the past 11 years, no court action was ever taken to determine paternity and since you ended the relationship with the mother that no court action was ever taken to establish custody, support and visitation?

That's the way I read it too Scott No current orders in place.

To OP:
As far as getting documents from the school as to you participating in the child's life. Yes by all means get them and bring them with you. Should you make the statement that you are there for your child and she tries to refute it then you have something in your hands for the judge to look at. That is how it gets introduced. Also have multiple copies of everything 1) for your records 1) for your ex and 1) for the judge. Keep the originals safe.

Also bring with you the false charges she brought against you.. any documentation showing they were false.

Also I have some reading for you. Just try not to read into it things that are not about you unless you can point it out as a fact backed up by evidence.

Parental Alienation and Parental Alienation Syndrome Home Page

This is on parental alienation and worth a good read.

First of all let me say thank you for all the great advice Scott, Califdadof3, 8384 you all were correct when you assumed there is no existing order of custody, support, visitation. This all stemmed from incident I described to you in previous post. No 8384, I do not have a GAL. I don't have a lawer either, I'm hoping to attain one but funds are extremely low and court date is coming up soon 9-24-09. Does this mean I can't get a GAL to speak with my daughter? If I can, how do I request one?

Yesterday I received a letter from the courts saying that my daughter has to attend this class called THE Children's GROUP-HELPING CHILDREN COPE WITH FAMILY TRANSITION is anybody familiar with this program, they state that the parent with whom the child is with that particular day is responsible to bring her, that would be the mother obviously, because of denial of visitation. They state that failure to bring child could play role in judges decision on ruling, they also say I have to attend a class called SHAPE with the same concequences if I don't attend, I don't understand that being as though they gave me a date that falls 2 days after trial. My daughters class is before trial, I think mother attends a class as well, but not sure. Does anybody know the heads up on this?

Oh yeah! I forgot to mention thanks Califdadof3, for the literature is was a good read, and very informative. I have a better understanding of my daughters mother behavior. I took your advice, and was very objective when I read it, and took away only what applied to my situation. Thank you so much again, all of you. It's because of people like you, that I don't feel so hopless, and lost.

I couldn't find anything specific on those programs, but they sound like they are designed to help parents and children cope with a family breakup. So that's a good thing.

As for the GAL, you need to ask the courts to appoint one. You need to understand, though, what a GAL is. This is a person (generally a social worker) who responsibility is to the child. That person is an advocate for the child's rights. The responsibility is to help determine what is in the child's best interests. So its not getting a GAL to just talk to your daughter is getting someone to act as an advocate for your daughter.

That's exactly what I thought a GAL was, that's what she needs somebody to speak for her and try to determine what's best for my daughter, my objective is not to take child away from mother, never would. Nor by any means am I suggesting that my child loves me more than mother. She just gravitates to me more because most of her tme she spends with me, mostly because of mother working two jobs. I want her to have us both, because we both love her. So I'm off to the court house to apply for a gal for our case. I wish I could give her the piece califdadof3 shared with me on alienation it would do her a world of good to see what she's doing to our child. One more question for today. I told you in earlier post that mother had blocked out all of my phone numbers from her phone, but my little girl will find away to talk to me by calling her aunt(my sister) to call me on two-way, and she will often get upset if for some reason she can't through to me. I solve that problem by buying a prepaid cell-phone and giving her the number when she did reach me. I told her do not give number to mother in fear of her blocking that number to. Is that practicing alienation? Am I doing what she's doing I don't want to harm my child in anyway, but I don't have any other choice if I want to communicate with her at all.

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Originally Posted by mrgarybennett

One more question for today. I told you in earlier post that mother had blocked out all of my phone numbers from her phone, but my little girl will find away to talk to me by calling her aunt(my sister) to call me on two-way, and she will often get upset if for some reason she can't through to me. I solve that problem by buying a prepaid cell-phone and giving her the number when she did reach me. I told her do not give number to mother in fear of her blocking that number to. Is that practicing alienation? am I doing what she's doing I don't want to harm my child in anyway, but I don't have any other choice if I want to communicate with her at all.

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What you are doing is putting the child in the middle. That's not good at all because your asking her to choose. Is that alone parental alienation no but if you read through that article then you would see that it is bad for you child. You are planting the seed of mistrust in her mother. You can file an emergency order and in it also state about phone calls etc so you do get some visitation before your trial / hearing. But you should NEVER throw your child into the middle of your conflict with your ex. That's bad news for everyone. As the adult and the parent you have to run for higher ground and deal with it within the law.

I hear you and your right, it's because I did read article that I asked that question. In no means do I wish to cause harm to child. Love way too much. Must think things out more clearly when I make decisions about this situation. You as well as someone else mentioned a emergency visitation form, I enquired about that and was told by a lawyer referral service that what I needed to file was a form called permente lite visitation. This was supposed to get me visitation until hearing.

On sept. 24 you need to tell the Judge that she has refused you visiting and talking to your daughter. You can also request that picking up and dropping off your daughter be through a third party or that it be done in a public place where she won't feel as free to start an argument with you.

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Originally Posted by mrgarybennett

I hear you and your right, it's because I did read article that I asked that question. In no means do I wish to cause harm to child. love way to much. Must think things out more clearly when I make decisions about this situation. You as well as someone else mentioned a emergency visitation form, I enquired about that and was told by a lawyer referral service that what I needed to file was a form called permente lite visitation. This was supposed to get me visitation until hearing.

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Also in the order you could turn over the cell phone to your child or get them a kids one that only allows numbers you put into it. That way mom has to allow it and so long as its not abused you should be OK.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Also in the order you could turn over the cell phone to your child or get them a kids one that only allows numbers you put into it. That way mom has to allow it and so long as its not abused you should be ok.

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That's a great idea; one of those kid's phones that you program Mom & Dad into and all they have to do is push a button.

Of course, the mother could always take the phone but that would be another thing against her; she'd have no grounds for it.

Thanks everyone once again for excellent advice, I'll try to give it to her when we have the hearing. Question of today, I mention in earlier post that I did not have a lawyer because funds were low, well there's been a change in that situation I was forunate to come across a little money and it should be enough to attain a lawyer, people have told me including employees at the family court system said I had a good case and shouldn't need one. The money could be put to other things (bills) but I want to achieve a fair level of justice when we go to trial. Again my objective is not to destroy mother, or separate her in anyway from our daughter, despite the way she's treating me and my parental rights I know she loves our daughter as well. I just want to make sure I'm apart of her life for as long as god grants me time on this earth. So do you think the money will be well spent with lawyer? I do.

First, I agree you appear to have a good case. However, if the mother has an attorney then you absolutely need one. It would be like going against a master fencer with a wooden stick.

Whenever you deal with the legal system, it is advisable to have legal counsel. They can make sure you present your case properly and in the best light.

Hey Everbody, got question being as though I've done all the leg work in my join't custody hearing, such as filing all the forms and bascially I just need him to present my case to the court and protect my rights, would the fee be the same or does the fact that I did all the leg work make it any cheaper?

It really depends on your attorney and the way they charge. Some are sticklers and charge for every piece of paper every phone call and if the step on a bug for you. Others however, have a much more broad billing where it is a certain amount per hour with out all the other stuff. So, assuming (which Iknow is a bad idea) you filled everything correctly it should be somewhat less expensive. But keep in mind that you will still have to pay.

Hey guys, I have a question or I should say I could used some advice concerning my present situation, as I mentioned in earlier post, mother had blocked all 3 of my phone numbers on her phone in attempt to further alienate me from my child. I also mention previously that I purchased a cell phone and gave child number so she could call when she wanted to. Mother knows of this I think because she always picks up the phone to listen to our conversations, we can both (my child} and I hear her, but I continue to keep talking about whatever subject wer'e talking about. My problem comes when my daughter starts asking me why won't I come and pick her up? Have I forgot about us? Do I still love her, etc... Needless to say this is a very painful and frustrating experience for the both of us. I fumble over my answers, partly because I know mother is on the other end thinking she's secretly listening to us trying to hear god knows what. My daughter has always look to me for guidance and direction, I've always been the daddy that could do anything in her eyesight. Fathers you know what I mean, if your little girl believes you tangled with alligators and lions, you tell her the stories about it. Now I feel totally helpless because I can't seem to fix this, all I can manage to say is [I know you don't understand fully what's going on, but it's important that you know daddy and mommy both love you, and I'm working with your mother to fix this as soon as possible] she's tired of hearing that' and her morale and spirit is getting low', she's about to go back to school next week and I don't want her distracted by this situation, does ANYBODY know of any comforting words that I could give my child that will help her cope, until this problem is resolved. I apologize in advance for the misuse of this site ,I know its meant for legal questions, sorry...

You need to tell the Judge that she is alienating you with your daughter by her tactics and you want a good relationship with your daughter without the sabotaging.

At this point there isn't much you can say because of what's going on. Here you might find some resources or books you can get at the library to study up on what's going on with all your lives.

KIDS' TURN www.kidsturn.org

There are also books for children too.

Hey guys back again, problem now is mother won't allow me to provide for my child, denying me vistation is one thing now she won't allow me to take care of her. I asked my daughter when she managed to call, what she needed for school and she keeps telling me mother said she is getting it all, now that's something mother has never done, she's always been more than willing to let me buy her stuff, been doing it every since she started school, does this sound like a tactic for when we go to court and she saying I'm not doing anything for her,my daughter goes to priivate school, so I paid her school tution for this month $380.00. We normally go half, but I forgot you have to pay a month in advance {July} she must have paid my end last month, but she never said anything, so I went to school today and paid full tution, Is this some kind of tactic for childsupport, I'm sure she wasn't going to say anything this month either about it. If she won't allow me to take care of my child,what can I do?

I know its hard but try to relax. Don't get sucked into the game playing void. As far as private school goes it is not a requirement that your child attend so its an option. Like it or not its not going to be part of the support for the child. For now just hang in there and don't do anything stupid. Its not that far away. Did you consider getting an emergency order yet ?

Yes I did several weeks ago, I explained my situation over the phone to a family lawyer hotline service that I got from the family law office, and he said I had to fill out a form called permente lite visitation, I don't know if that's the Maryland version of a emergency visitation form or not, but it was supposed get me visitation until hearing, but no such luck yet. I mention in a earlier post that they consolidated our cases, and my case is to be the lead case. What does that mean?

Hello, anybody home?

If your case is the "lead" case, I would assume that to mean that they're giving your case priority over a lot of others.

I know it's frustrating how slow the system is - my husband had a hearing on the 14th and was granted temporary primary placement and will get back any child support that he has paid since mid-July. The only problem with that is that the actual order hasn't been entered yet so even though we have the kids and are feeding, clothing and bathing them, his exwife is still getting support right now. But it will come soon enough and like others have said, you seem to have a pretty good case. So just try to be patient... even though that is probably the hardest thing to do right now :)

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Originally Posted by mrgarybennett

Yes I did several weeks ago, I explained my situation over the phone to a family lawyer hotline service that I got from the family law office, and he said I had to fill out a form called permente lite visitation, I don't know if that's the Maryland version of a emergency visitation form or not, but it was supposed get me visitation until hearing, but no such luck yet. I mention in a earlier post that they consolidated our cases, and my case is to be the lead case. What does that mean?

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Im not sure what you mean by no such luck but I think its because of your spelling. What you are seeking is actually called a " pendente lite " custody order.

Ref:
Modification of Custody or Visitation in a Maryland Divorce

Since the cases were put together yours is the first to be considered. Should it caus changes then the other cause may be dropped or annulled. Lead case = First in line.

Also please try to remember this is a volunteer site. Many of us have jobs away from this board and we aren't paid to come here. So give at least 24hrs for reponses please. Also try to remember in many cases we need to do research so we aren't just blowing smoke and giving the wrong advice. It takes time. And this site is free to all visitors. Please be patient.

What I meant by "no such luck" is that I did file the permente lite form for emergency visitation, and I still haven't seen my child or heard anything else about it. Sorry for my impatience, That has always been a problem for me.

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Originally Posted by mrgarybennett

What I meant by "no such luck" is that I did file the permente lite form for emergency visitation, and I still havn't seen my child or heard anything else about it. Sorry for my impatience,. that has always been a problem for me.

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I know how you feel; I'm not really impatient but I don't like the feeling that I don't know what's going on or what's going to happen. And with court, anything can happen. Just hire a good attorney, let them represent your case which seems to be pretty strong, and take it one day at a time.