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Sen. John mccain was born in panama but nobody questioned his u.s. citizenship because his parents were u.s. citizens.
Likewise, if pres. Obama were born in kenya, why wouldn't he also be a u.s. citizen because his mother was a u.s. citizen?
What is the law? Do BOTH parents have to be us citizens?
Can a single mother give birth to a us citizen while living or travelling abroad?
Thank you
The law is simple. You have to be born in the US to be eligible to be US President.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertimlah
End of story.
And Obama was born in Hawaii, not Kenya. McCain was born in Panama in the Canal Zone, which was under US control at the time.
The constitution says that the president must be a "natural born citizen." The exact meaning of that phrase has never been fully defined, but most believe it means:
a. You are born in the US, or
b. You are born in a US territory (this is what allowed Barry Goldwater to run for pres in 1964 - he was born in Arizona while it was still a territory), or
c. You are born outside the US but both parents are US citizens - maybe. There is some controversy as to whether this really qualifies one to be called a "natural born US citizen." To help assuage any doubts about McCain's eligibility to run for pres, Congress passed a special resolution declaring him a citizen. For further info see: Natural born citizen of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So if Obama had been born outside the US or its territories, since Obama's father was not a US citizen, he would not be considered a US citizen. But as cadillac59 says - we know that Obama was born in Hawaii, so end of story. However, this explains why there is so much noise from certain opponents of Obama who would like to prove that he was not born in Hawaii. See: snopes.com: Is Barack Obama a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?
Simple you have to be born on U.S. ground. Be it one of the fifty states or a military base of our's somewhere else.
We don't actually know just WHERE Obama was born. He has never produced his long hospital birth certificate showing what hospital and what attending physician. Until that time no one, not even "snopes" can accurately say just where he was born.
Why are there so many people clamoring for his long birth certificate if he was supposedly born in Hawaii? Makes no sense to hide the original if he was indeed born in Hawaii, but because he does not publicly disclose this document and spends a million dollars to conceal it, I for one, do not believe he was truly born in Hawaii, but elsewhere. Elsewhere where? I don't know.
There's an article I read about this...
The critic who wrote it made a decent argument as to why he's not showing his birth certificate. Simply enough, he says that even if Obama did show his birth certificate:
1) It's not that important. What, he's going to step down now? There are more important things to worry about.
2) Critics will claim that he had the White House "forge" a document... and he could, why not? He's the president.
3) It's not that important.
There contiues to be misinformation out there about his birth cerytificate. Obama has in fact produced it - he did this before the election. You can see it for yourself here:
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.
But there continues to be the conspiracy theory crowd who don't care about facts, and like to keep spreading falsehoods about Obama not producing his birth certificate. These folks need to let go and move on!
Sorry but its not a fact it's a statement. Like so many others of that time it is the " short " form of a birth certificate. But not the actual certificate with corresponding names etc. Maybe Arnold will be next in line as president??Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaines
YouTube - Kenyan Ambassador admits Obama born in KenyaQuote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
I have tin foil hats for sale if anyone wants to purchase them just PM me. $20.00 a hat!! You people are too funny!
Why did his grandmother say she was present at his birth? Because she was. His mother is really Madelyn and not Stanley Ann. Stanley Ann was on the beach in Hawaii in a bikini in August 1961. How could she have miraculously given birth to him? Why no pregnancy photos of her? Grandmother Obama never stated just WHO was the mother who gave birth.
Why would he ignore his mother Stanley Ann's dying and instead go visit his grandmother Madelyn before her death? He did state he saw his real birth certificate among Stanley Ann's belongings.
I believe that Madelyn and not Stanley Ann was his real mother. Happened all the time back in the 1950's and 1960's. Barack Obama, Sr. was probably the correct father but wrong mother that we have been lead to believe. Madelyn had much more smarts than her daughter Stanley Ann did and could have pulled off the ruse. For Madelyn to have had a black child and still living in Hawaii with her husband Stanley would have been worse than scandalous considering she was a bank executive at the time.
As for tin foil hats, please. As for factcheck, please. Why is the government tap dancing around the fact there is something terribly wrong with Barack Obama's birth certificate? Because it would show who he really is and where he was really born. Honest people don't HIDE anything. Dishonest people HIDE everything they can.
Twinkie - you've got to get your conspiracy stories straight - are you now saying that Barrack's grandma is real his ma, and that she went to Kenya to give birth?
The problem with conspiracy throeries like this that they never can offer any proof, just conjcture. All you need do is produce one person who admits that they forfeited Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, or that they lied when they placed the birth announcement in the Hawaii newspaper. Or someone who saw his grandma pregnant at the time.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Merely suggesting that something could have happened in a certain way doesn't mean it did happen that way. Where's your proof?
Here are a few facts that point to his being a natual born citizen in question. He may be a naturalized citizen but he doesn't qualify for natural born citizen because of time spent elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaines
obamacrimes - Home Page
Take a look and decide for yourself. In a random pole this morning at a radio station near me there was only 42% that believed that he is a natural born citizen and the rest was mostly split between no and undecided. I myself find it shocking that a majority don't know for sure.
Hello robert:Quote:
Originally Posted by robertimlah
Yes, and that would make that child a "natural born citizen" eligible for the presidency of the United States.. This nonsense about having to be PHYSICALLY born here to be president, is a lot of hooey.
I would, however, be pleased to be wrong, if someone could just direct me to the law that says otherwise.
excon
Always happy to oblige my friend...Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
6.1. The U. S. Constitution and the President
Its written into the constitution.
Hello dad:Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
Not necessarily... Black does NOT agree with wikki:
The requirements for citizenship, and its very definition in American statute law, have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, stating that "the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."
excon
Does anyone think that if there was validity to this that the Clinton Mafia would not have found it? Cmon
Hello rookie:Quote:
Originally Posted by rookie231
There's no thinking going on... It's pure racism. These people can't get over the fact that United States of American elected a black man as their president. So, they have to de-legitimize him any way they can, and that causes them to make up stuff.
excon
Oh no, its not racism actually... he is still a fraud, just not the BC way. He showed last week, that HE is actually the racist
Racist ? No, you don't need to throw that label my way. The presidency is colorless to me because I believe in America. And until he is kicked out of office or loses an election or ends his term I still support the president no matter who is sitting in the seat.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
When dealing with facts and law then that's when it breaks away. Its not about color.
I don't know where he was born. But when we moved to PA, PA wouldn't accept our "birth certificates" because at the top the certificate said "Certificate of Live Birth" just like the one I keep seeing for Pres. Obama.
We had to go to our home state and replacement certificate that did not refer to live birth.
The present form on display for Pres. Obama may be sufficient to become POTUS, but he couldn't get a driver's license in PA with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
Yes, I support Obama a lot more than those who hated Bush supported him while he was in office.
From usconstitution.net --
Natural-born citizen
Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
* Anyone born inside the United States *
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S. as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.
Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.
The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.
In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person." Not everyone agrees that this section includes McCain — but absent a court ruling either way, we must presume citizenship.
Barack Obama's birth was noted in the August 13, 1961, Honolulu Advertiser's "Births, Deaths, Marriages" column. Did the conspiracy begin then?
Let's say for one crazy moment that Obama is not a U.S. citizen, that the "birthers" are right. Do you want him removed from office immediately so J0e Biden can take over? Do you want a whole new election? Or should John McCain and Sarah Palin be awarded the White House via "forfeit"? Finally, take a moment to tap into your calm, sane, rational, logical mind, and riddle me this: Do you sincerely believe Obama was born outside this country and has lied about it for years, knowing all along that if just one hospital employee or disgruntled staffer or estranged friend or opportunistic family member breaks ranks with the conspiracy, his career would crash and burn? (from Richard Roeper's column, Chicago Sun-Times, 07/29/09)
People don't remember back that far because babies are born every day. But according to even Obama sources he was born in at least 2 hospitals ? What I would like to see is what is legal and not set a precident of someone not meeting the requirements of office be in office. Would that mean if it were proven he didn't meet them I would want McCain Pallin in office ? No. That wouldn't be close to right. It would be the same rules as an impeachment with full ramifications and a the vice president would take over and the party chooses a new VP. When you asked about a family member do you think his own grandmother is in that category ? She has stated he was born in Kenya. I for one would like to see the records open and less divisiveness going on. It shouldn't be that big of a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
No, even worse. Biden would be disqualified due to an invalid election... next in line, NANCY PELOSI!!
No. The election is valid. The process continues. Its only the person being disqualified.Quote:
Originally Posted by rookie231
I refuse to take part in this conspiracy-theory, crack pot, right-wing, ultra-conservative Republican, and ultimately fascist babble about whether Obama was really born in Hawaii.
Next thing you know these wackos are going to be arguing that Hawaii was never officially admitted to the Union and thus Obama should be removed from office as not being native-born (of course these same nut cases aren't a bit concerned that McCain was born in the former Panama Canal Zone!--interesting isn't it?)
Let these nut cases take the debate elsewhere. That's not what this board is for.
You just did ;-).Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillac59
Well for refusing your sure making noise : )Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillac59
There are already rules on the books for U.S. controlled territories so that part ia already cleared. As far as McCain goes when it was in question the documents pertaining to it were shown and even went so far as congress passing a bill stating he was a legal citizen. He was born on U.S. territory just as if he were born on a military base.
So were still at square one.. lol
And it just goes on and on.. when will it end ?
Is this really smoking gun of Obama's Kenyan birth?
What a conveniently timed story... You crazies really have it together on this one.
I notice that 2 times so far you have only made snide comments rather then participate in anything close to discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by spitvenom
My point in posting it was that it only continues. It just amazes me. So what's the point of your posts ?
To call this post crazy. Let me ask you do you believe all the crazy conspiracy sites about 9-11. I bet you don't, But you will believe this BS because you want it to be true so badly you can taste it. Look fact is (and I think someone already said this) If this were true Clinton would have been all over it and you know it.
And I have to say for that paper being 48 years old it is awfully white. No yellowing at all. Who would have thought Kenya kept documents so air tight.
Hello dad:Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
Uhhhh, NOW?? But, probably not. Facts don't seem to deter this movement.
The NEW birth certificate has the incorrect age of Obama's father, the incorrect name of Kenya, and the hospital named wasn't IN Kenya.
You aren't alone in your disbelief, though. 58% of Republicans either don't think Obama is eligible to be president or don't know...
THAT is what's unbelievable!!
excon
As far as my beliefs in conspiracies in general I don't think the sky is falling. But Im just amazed at the overwhelming force that is keeping records secret rather then just open them up and see where the chips fall. Why spend 1 million dollars hiding if there is nothing to hide ? Why not let the facts speak for themselves. That's what I would like to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by spitvenom
As far as Clinton. Follow the money at the time. She was too broke to do anything. She was millions in the hole from her own pocket from her running for president. So when you look at it from that end its possible that nothing could have been done and now its too late.
I would like to see an end to all this because too many just aren't sure. That's bad for this country.
I agree. That's way too many that have doubt. Its something I have never seen in my lifetime. I hope someday everything gets settled.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
But Cali wouldn't she have jumped on it at the beginning when her campaign had the cash? Why didn't McCains people do something about it during the primaries when he had the rights primary wrapped up.
When Bill lied under oath the right jumped all over that and held impeachment trails. Where are the trails? Where is the official investigation. Or maybe just maybe the right already investigated this and realized it was BS.
Hello again, dad:Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
That's the mantra, isn't it? The FACT that he disclosed his birth certificate isn't enough. I can't imagine what other stuff you think he's hiding. The only thing I have to prove I'm an American is my birth certificate. What? You have others?? You do?? Why are you hiding them?
excon
There has been no trial there was a hearing and the trial was disallowed by the supreme court because of an individual not being able to bring suit forth so there was no judicial force for documentation. The claim is that a private citizen is not entitled to challenge. And its not just about the birth certificate its about citizenship. Its just a big mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by spitvenom
BTW: I appreciate that you returned with more then just snide comments and helped turn it back into a debate thanks.
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