My former son-in-law is currently on probation for his third time on domestic violence against my daughter. He and his attorney bullied her into joint custody in June 2008. The bullying and intimidation continue. She cannot afford an attorney, but his abusive parents are paying for one for him. Can he prevent us from getting a psychological evaluation to prove the emotional abuse he is perpetrating on our boys? He has refused permission for counseling, etc. They have witnessed both abuse of their mother and two suicide attempts by him, the latest being less than a year ago.

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Originally Posted by concerned gran

My former son-in-law is currently on probation for his third time on domestic violence against my daughter. He and his attorney bullied her into joint custody in June 2008. The bullying and intimidation continue. She cannot afford an attorney, but his abusive parents are paying for one for him. Can he prevent us from getting a psychological evaluation to prove the emotional abuse he is perpetrating on our boys? He has refused permission for counseling, etc. They have witnessed both abuse of their mother and two suicide attempts by him, the latest being less than a year ago.

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You have no legal standing. This is your daughter's fight. She can request that they be evaluated. Keep in mind if the Court orders the evaluation if it admissible. If the Court does not order it, it may not be.

Again - you have no legal standing but the mother of the children does.

I am aware that I have no standing, I am merely trying to gather information. My question is whether, when this goes to a hearing in two weeks, she can have had an evaluation done in addition to the proof already existing of the emotional abuse the children have been subjected to at this time. They do not want to visit their father at his home, and are expressing fear of "making him mad".

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Originally Posted by concerned gran

I am aware that I have no standing, I am merely trying to gather information. My question is whether, when this goes to a hearing in two weeks, she can have had an evaluation done in addition to the proof already existing of the emotional abuse the children have been subjected to at this time. They do not want to visit their father at his home, and are expressing fear of "making him mad".

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Sorry, when you said "us" I thought you meant you and your husband, not your daughter. Yes, by all means she requests a Court-ordered psych evaluation of the children. In some States that also involves the appointment of an Attorney to watch out for their interests.

The evaluation will carry more weight than the proof you have - in most States.

How old are the children?

They are 10 and 8 yrs old. They have spoken at length with clergy, the school counselor and to PaPa and Granny about their fears and unhappinesss. He has forced them into his car and allows his girlfriend to attempt discipline and she mocks them. She has been in parenting classes for over two years herself! He continues to bully and intimidate their mother and my oldest grandson has told him to stop his bullying behavior in regards to himself. She has been fighting back for her children, but the lack of an attorney when he has one has been difficult. Law enforcement has not been very helpful and we live in a very rural area. He has received numerous "warnings" from the Sheriff's deputies, but his probation does not seem to be in any danger. The children have witnessed his abuse of their mother and two different suicide threats, one with a gun and one with a knife. He has three domestic violence convictions and one assault arrest unrelated to my daughter. If there is an attorney in Southern AZ who would accept a down payment and payments, we would be happy to pay whatever it takes to stop this violent behavior from affecting our grandsons.

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Originally Posted by concerned gran

They are 10 and 8 yrs old. They have spoken at length with clergy, the school counselor and to PaPa and Granny about their fears and unhappinesss. He has forced them into his car and allows his girlfriend to attempt discipline and she mocks them. She has been in parenting classes for over two years herself! He continues to bully and intimidate their mother and my oldest grandson has told him to stop his bullying behavior in regards to himself. She has been fighting back for her children, but the lack of an attorney when he has one has been difficult. Law enforcement has not been very helpful and we live in a very rural area. He has received numerous "warnings" from the Sheriff's deputies, but his probation does not seem to be in any danger. The children have witnessed his abuse of their mother and two different suicide threats, one with a gun and one with a knife. He has three domestic violence convictions and one assault arrest unrelated to my daughter. If there is an attorney in Southern AZ who would accept a down payment and payments, we would be happy to pay whatever it takes to stop this violent behavior from affecting our grandsons.

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No one here can recommend an Attorney to you - but have you called your County Bar Association and asked for a referral to one who specializes?

Your daughter has got to do everything she can (as you know) to protect these children. I think she needs to go to Court and ask that his visitation be suspended.

Minimally she should ask for an evaluation - that sort of gets the ball rolling.

These situations are posted somewhat often and are always stomach turning.

Okay, we're moving in the right direction. She has asked for an evaluation and the judge said that was a good idea, he didn't order it, however. She is currently asking that visitation be suspended and that he have theraputic visitation with them NOT at his home. No word on that yet. He has filed a motion against her for a "frivolous" case and asking that she pay his attorney fees. He also filed a response to her motion for emergency sole custody and seems to admit most of her assertions, because they seem to have made a mistake in their filing. He is now accusing her of interfering with his parenting time because she set-up a schedule that does not solely adhere to his demands and schedule of four days off. He is a firefighter and she is a paramedic, so their schedules are virtually identical and she was not able to be with her kids if he had them for his four days off. It has also been compromising their school weeks and neither can sleep in his duplex. He also neglects to bring them to school because it is "inconvenient" for him since he chooses to live out of county.

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Originally Posted by concerned gran

Okay, we're moving in the right direction. She has asked for an evaluation and the judge said that was a good idea, he didn't order it, however. She is currently asking that visitation be suspended and that he have theraputic visitation with them NOT at his home. No word on that yet. He has filed a motion against her for a "frivolous" case and asking that she pay his attorney fees. He also filed a response to her motion for emergency sole custody and seems to admit most of her assertions, because they seem to have made a mistake in their filing. He is now accusing her of interfering with his parenting time because she set-up a schedule that does not solely adhere to his demands and schedule of four days off. He is a firefighter and she is a paramedic, so their schedules are virtually identical and she was not able to be with her kids if he had them for his four days off. It has also been compromising their school weeks and neither can sleep in his duplex. He also neglects to bring them to school because it is "inconvenient" for him since he chooses to live out of county.

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She is doing all she can right now - and doing it well!

Please keep us informed as this progresses.

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Originally Posted by concerned gran

Okay, we're moving in the right direction. She has asked for an evaluation and the judge said that was a good idea, he didn't order it, however. She is currently asking that visitation be suspended and that he have theraputic visitation with them NOT at his home. No word on that yet. He has filed a motion against her for a "frivolous" case and asking that she pay his attorney fees. He also filed a response to her motion for emergency sole custody and seems to admit most of her assertions, because they seem to have made a mistake in their filing. He is now accusing her of interfering with his parenting time because she set-up a schedule that does not solely adhere to his demands and schedule of four days off. He is a firefighter and she is a paramedic, so their schedules are virtually identical and she was not able to be with her kids if he had them for his four days off. It has also been compromising their school weeks and neither can sleep in his duplex. He also neglects to bring them to school because it is "inconvenient" for him since he chooses to live out of county.

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Something doesn't sound right in all this. You had said she asked the judge about an evaluation?? She needs a lawyer. If she gets caught talking to the judge without the other side present it could blow a gigantic hole in any case you think you have. If she continues without one she has much more to risk then she can think of. Courts are full of procedures.. And they must be followed or the outcomes can get skewed. There is a potential here for her to lose custody. She needs a lawyer.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Something doesnt sound right in all this. You had said she asked the judge about an evaluation ???? She needs a lawyer. If she gets caught talking to the judge without the other side present it could blow a gigantic hole in any case you think you have. If she continues without one she has much more to risk then she can think of. Courts are full of procedures .. And they must be followed or the outcomes can get skewed. There is a potential here for her to lose custody. She needs a lawyer.

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I was under the impression, perhaps mistaken, that the daughter spoke to the Judge at the time of the protective hearing, not that she arrived at his chambers for a discussion.

Maybe OP can come back and clear this up.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I was under the impression, perhaps mistaken, that the daughter spoke to the Judge at the time of the protective hearing, not that she arrived at his chambers for a discussion.

Maybe OP can come back and clear this up.

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I don't know for sure either. Its just so many times on this board people try to contact the judge by calling them or sending a letter and that can give the opposition a huge advantage. Thas why Im strongly recommending a lawyer at this point.

Have you tried getting CPS involved? Children witnessing violence against their mother and hearing suicide threats is abuse. If your daughter cannot afford a lawyer, can't the court appoint one for her?

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Originally Posted by Sunflowers

Have you tried getting CPS involved? Children witnessing violence against their mother and hearing suicide threats is abuse. If your daughter cannot afford a lawyer, can't the court appoint one for her?

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Not sure where you are from, in most US states, for civil matters, a person may apply to a local legal aid society that offers different levels of help for low income. But court appointed attorneys are normally in criminal cases for the defendant

She spoke to the judge during a scheduling hearing where all were present. The attorney for her husband is the same one who did the "mediation" before the divorce was finalized. He acted as if her husband was being unreasonable at that time, she unfortunately trusted him, and then they pushed this joint custody on her at the last minute. She was, and sometimes still does, act like a battered woman who he can control. She confesses that he still scares her and she believes that he will find a way to "get her". We simply do not have money to spend on an attorney. I am trying to work with the UofA law dept. to see if they can help. She makes too much money to qualify for legal aid.

I am not saying it right, but your daughter needs an attorney. These are her children she is defending and she is at a TREMENDOUS disadvantage without counsel.

I spend over 50% per month of my gross wages to fight my controlling, abusive ex-husband. I know that the first time, I didn't use my attorney (cause of the fees) to get what my child deserved and I was hosed as well, settled with joint custody with a man whose interest isn't the child involved, his interest is in controlling my life.

I know both routes and the one without an attorney is the one that has you back in court and your children suffering. She will be hosed and run over again without counsel. You have to find a way to pay the attorney fees. If she makes too much for legal aid to assist, then I know it's possible.

My income isn't even above legal aid standards (but they don't take cases here without abuse involved) and I am making it work. It's a sacrifice, but worth it for the sake of the children.

I have to agree that your daughter can't afford NOT to have an attorney. For example, the frivolous case thing is a typical trick that an attorney would do. Attorneys can file all sorts of motions and some will stick if your daughter doesn't know how to fight them. Not having an attorney is partially how she got into this mess in the first place. Another example, is, if she had an attorney, the request for an psych eval would have gone correctly and the judge would have ordered it, not just agreed that it's a good idea.

She needs to shop around, some attorneys will allow her to pay off the fees over time. Or there could be the possibility of forcing the ex to pay fees just as he is trying to force her to.

Let me ask you what you think is more important, the health and welbing of your grandchildren or being in debt?

I would do anything for these boys, including going into debt. We are going to keep looking and trying.

Good luck to you. I know the whole situation is stressful and difficult and buckle up it's one heck of a long ride, but in the end, you are doing what is best to protect the children.

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Originally Posted by concerned gran

She spoke to the judge during a scheduling hearing where all were present. The attorney for her husband is the same one who did the "mediation" before the divorce was finalized. He acted as if her husband was being unreasonable at that time, she unfortunately trusted him, and then they pushed this joint custody on her at the last minute. She was, and sometimes still does, act like a battered woman who he can control. She confesses that he still scares her and she believes that he will find a way to "get her". We simply do not have money to spend on an attorney. I am trying to work with the UofA law dept. to see if they can help. She makes too much money to qualify for legal aid.

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Ok, this really concerns me because without council your walking blind. There is no way that they had mediation if his lawyer was the one that did it. A lawyer can only represent 1 side. What they did was reach an agreement and you can see who got the better end of the deal. Do what you have to do but get a lawyer as soon as possible before she loses the kids altogether.

I see that and we are going to do whatever it takes.

I know during my divorce last year, I spent almost 2 months pay getting my attorney, I did without all sorts of things to get him paid, And I am actually good at the law, been to law school, but I needed someone who was up on every law. It often is not cheap but has to be done