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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Then, since I am home all day, I clean the house, I do all the laundry, I plan the meals, shop for those meals, cook those meals, clean up from those meals. I pay all the bills (according to my husband - no I don't "pay" the bills, I write the checks), I manage the money. I am "on" 24/7 because my "job" is never done. I don't get a day off or true "me" time.
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"I clean the house" - nope
"I do all the laundry" - nope
"I plan the meals" - nope
"shop" - nope
"cook" - nope
"clean up after meals" - nope
"pay bills, manage money" - nope

But our relationships is suppose to be 50-50 right? She pulls the"my job is 24-7" routine on me too. The SAHM part ends when I get home because I also am there taking care of the kids, at that point she isn't doing it alone anymore.

But anyway, I made this thread trying to get some advice on what my options were getting my kids and bringing them back here. Then I feel like I have to spend 4 pages defending myself and explaining the situation because I guess its just too hard to believe that a man can love his wife and do everything he can for her and just continually get $hit on by her. There MUST be a reason she left. :rolleyes:

Trying to identify what your part of the problem is doing "everything" or "anything" to save the marriage. One person can not make or break a relationship. So, the reason for my post was not to make you get on the defensive - but maybe shed some light on what could be going on in your wife's head.
If you can honestly say that you have done everything to save your marriage - then go to the next step. If not, then don't give up.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

If you can honestly say that you have done everything to save your marriage - then go to the next step. If not, then don't give up.

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What's going on in her head is pretty much a mystery at this point. If you want my honest opinion about it she needs therapy and some kind of medication. She's been on and off anti-depressants several times. She would take them for a while, claim they help, and just stop taking them after declaring "I feel better, I dont think I need them anymore." She had a major incident happen to her when whe was 17 or so that she never told anyone about, never told me about it until about 3yrs ago. Something that she just kind of buried and acted like it never happened. Now you can draw whatever conclusion you want as to what happened.

And who knows, I probably need some kind of therapy too.

So today I tell her "fine, whatever, Ill move, if that is what will make you happy and save our family, I dont care anymore." And the answer I get? "well maybe you should have thought about that a long time ago."

It's a totally one sided relationship, everything is on her terms, and truthfully deep down Im beginning to think maybe this relationship is just too unhealthy to stay together. Who knows, Im losing my mind. :(

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There MUST be a reason she left. :rolleyes:

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Some peoples ways of getting info is harsh, and its hard to get a handle on the issues with one side of the story, so if I may, if you did get the kids which by the way would be up to a judge officially, what provisions are there where you are for their care and schooling while you look for work, or go to work? I ask because visitation would be a good option while your trying to get the stability of steady empoloyment together, and would also allow you and your wife to find common ground for your differences. The way it looks now, for whatever reason you two are separated, and maybe that's good as a cooling off period would give you both a chance to put the situation into perspective. You might not want to hear this but you both could benefit from counseling, maybe not a health care professional, but an imparcial 3rd party to guide you through the process of resolving your issues, or you go alone or see a pastor whom may be trained in giuding people with problems like you have. A lawyer will give you the legal options, but after that you will need to know which way to go. Hey I can read your frustration, and anger but don't quite on this just yet. It takes time to figure how to fix what's broke. Glad you came back. Hope I at least gave you food for thought.

Okay, let me show it to you this way about the 24/7 thingy, K? Just bear with me.

My husband, kids and I just travelled back home to visit my mother and see my father who was sick. We were here for a week when my husband HAD to get back to work (I don't mean anything bad by that he really had to get back as he is the only one in the company that can do his job and his bench was really piling up), so I decided to stay because I knew that my father would pass soon.

Now, understand that I am a full time nursing student and mother and my husband works. He would continuously tell me that working, paying the bills, etc etc was MUCH MUCH harder than anything I do.

Well, now, back to my story...

They left on Saturday to go back home (650 miles away). My father passed yesterday. So anyway, when talking to hubby on the phone he asked when I was coming home. I told him that I don't know and that I planned to stay as long as Mom needs me. I proceeded to ask him why. He skirted around the issue and then finally said, and I quote: "I finally see how hard it is for you, how do you do it? I really thought you had it easier."

Now, to say that your wife doesn't do as much as you is impossible, unless you have walked in her shoes for a while.

I am going to speak here regarding the legality of what you can and can not do with your kids.

Neither of you has legal custody of the children. There is no court order. So you have as much right to them as she does. The fact is you do have the right to go get your kids and have them be with you. The problem is you have nothing that says for how long, so you have no legal backing. You can not take the children with the intent to conceal nor can she. You can not take the kids and deny her having them nor can she. However, you can get a paper notarized saying what date you are going to get the children, where they will be, and exactly what date you intend to return them to mom and give it to her and take your children to visit with you. That will satisfy any legal issue of your intent. As long as you have a birth certificate with you on it and the fact that you two are married constitutes your paternity so you can take birth certificates, call the police (if she refuses to let you see the kids) and ask them to assist you/ride along for the purpose of keeping the peace and let them know that you are being refused access to your children while you go to moms to get access to your children.

I am going to tell you that you should get a lawyer and at the very least get a parenting plan ordered. Something that establishes the specifics while you are separated and deciding on getting a divorce. Maybe the two of you can mediate an agreement outside of court that would only require a lawyer for the paperwork and filing. Maybe she would be willing to at least protect all your interests for the children. I would start there.

I think your wife has some serious issues of her own unfortunately you can't fix. She sounds like she does need some serious counseling. Problem is we can't make those we love do anything, even if it is in their best interest. I would get counseling for yourself to help deal with the pain of what is going on and to help guide you in how to help your kids go through this as well.

Maybe it would just be best for right now, not to get a lawyer and "slam her" but only to try to work with her in making an agreement between the two of you outside of court for the children. The kids need to know too who they will be with and what times for their own stability and security. Try to take it to her with that approach. Leave the divorce for a little later time. Don't "go after her", let her be gone for now, work with a counselor (you on your own) and see if they can help you better decide when it will be right to try to get her back or let her go for good.

I will pray for you. I wish you the best. You find some very harsh people o here who do take these questions to personally sometimes but some really do care and want to offer helpful advise. I hope you have found a little here.

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Originally Posted by J_9

Okay, let me show it to you this way about the 24/7 thingy, K? Just bear with me.

My husband, kids and I just travelled back home to visit my mother and see my father who was sick. We were here for a week when my husband HAD to get back to work (I don't mean anything bad by that he really had to get back as he is the only one in the company that can do his job and his bench was really piling up), so I decided to stay because I knew that my father would pass soon.

Now, understand that I am a full time nursing student and mother and my husband works. He would continuously tell me that working, paying the bills, etc etc was MUCH MUCH harder than anything I do.

Well, now, back to my story.....

They left on Saturday to go back home (650 miles away). My father passed yesterday. So anyway, when talking to hubby on the phone he asked when I was coming home. I told him that I don't know and that I planned to stay as long as Mom needs me. I proceeded to ask him why. He skirted around the issue and then finally said, and I quote: "I finally see how hard it is for you, how do you do it? I really thought you had it easier."

Now, to say that your wife doesn't do as much as you is impossible, unless you have walked in her shoes for a while.

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I understand what you are trying to say, but you aren't following what Im saying. First off, you are not only a SAHM you are a full time student too.

But you also, by your post, do those things that I and most people think of when you hear stay at home mom: cook, clean, shop, laundry, etc.

My wife doesn't do much of any of that. But if I ever bring it up it get look out.

Oh, I am a SHAM!! ROFLMFAO!!

Now the real you comes out. It may be understandable why your wife left.

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Originally Posted by tawnynkids

I am going to speak here regarding the legality of what you can and can not do with your kids.

Neither of you has legal custody of the children. There is no court order. So you have as much right to them as she does. The fact is you do have the right to go get your kids and have them be with you. The problem is you have nothing that says for how long, so you have no legal backing. You can not take the children with the intent to conceal nor can she. You can not take the kids and deny her having them nor can she. However, you can get a paper notarized saying what date you are going to get the children, where they will be, and exactly what date you intend to return them to mom and give it to her and take your children to visit with you. That will satisfy any legal issue of your intent. As long as you have a birth certificate with you on it and the fact that you two are married constitutes your paternity so you can take birth certificates, call the police (if she refuses to let you see the kids) and ask them to assist you/ride along for the purpose of keeping the peace and let them know that you are being refused access to your children while you go to moms to get access to your children.

I am going to tell you that you should get a lawyer and at the very least get a parenting plan ordered. Something that establishes the specifics while you are separated and deciding on getting a divorce. Maybe the two of you can mediate an agreement outside of court that would only require a lawyer for the paperwork and filing. Maybe she would be willing to at least protect all your interests for the children. I would start there.

I think your wife has some serious issues of her own unfortunately you can't fix. She sounds like she does need some serious counseling. Problem is we can't make those we love do anything, even if it is in their best interest. I would get counseling for yourself to help deal with the pain of what is going on and to help guide you in how to help your kids go through this as well.

Maybe it would just be best for right now, not to get a lawyer and "slam her" but only to try to work with her in making an agreement between the two of you outside of court for the children. The kids need to know too who they will be with and what times for their own stability and security. Try to take it to her with that approach. Leave the divorce for a little later time. Don't "go after her", let her be gone for now, work with a counselor (you on your own) and see if they can help you better decide when it will be right to try to get her back or let her go for good.

I will pray for you. I wish you the best. You find some very harsh people o here who do take these questions to personally sometimes but some really do care and want to offer helpful advise. I hope you have found a little here.

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That's awesome advice, it really is. That was on of my biggest questions, HOW exactly can I get the kids. I can say with 99.9% assurity that if I were to show up there and say "Im taking the kids back home" she is going to say no. So my biggest question was how can I legally do this even while we aren't divorced or even in the process.

The whole situation is like skating on thin ice. As you say, don't slam her with legal stuff and divorce and all that, but one move in that direction will be seen at the first shot across the bow so Im trying to avoid it as long as I can.

As far as the notorized note, how confident are you that is all that's needed? I has called the police before about getting the kids and was told flat out they can't do anything at all, they can't force her to turn the kids over to me.

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Originally Posted by J_9

Oh, I am a SHAM!!! ROFLMFAO!!!!

Now the real you comes out. It may be understandable why your wife left.

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what are you talking about??

it was SAHM, not SHAM.

SAHM = stay at home mom.

:rolleyes:

edit - by the way, your answer echos how a lot of people (thats people) seem to approach this thread. "There MUST BE SOME REASON SHE LEFT, THE REAL YOU COMES OUT." Its like you are looking for something that isn't there and it seems to be common in this country, and especially where the law is concerned. The man is ALWAYS in the wrong.

She may need to see a doctor. Does she refuse or what?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

She may need to see a doctor. Does she refuse or what??

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Refuse to see a doctor?

If that's what you are asking, she feels like she is OK and Im the only one with the problem, which I probably need to go too.

Okay, sorry, my limited knowledge of anagrams shows my age. I thought you misspelled SHAM. Again, my apologies.

Now, I did read that she was on meds and stopped them once she was feeling better. This is VERY common with people who suffer depression/anxiety.

Has she alwas been like this? Did it start after the birth of a child?

Would she be receptive to marriage counseling?

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Originally Posted by J_9

Okay, sorry, my limited knowledge of anagrams shows my age. I thought you misspelled SHAM. Again, my apologies.

Now, I did read that she was on meds and stopped them once she was feeling better. This is VERY common with people who suffer depression/anxiety.

Has she alwas been like this? Did it start after the birth of a child?

Would she be receptive to marriage counseling?

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No problem. Figured you either 1) didn't know what SAHM meant or 2) maybe I had misspelled it. I never knew what it was until wife told me that's what it stood for.

I don't remember for sure how long ago its been since she's been on meds. Been a few years at least. I don't recall really what started her on them either. I personally think she probably needs something.

As far as a counselor goes, I'm all for it. Obviously we need some outside help. But that can't be accomplished 1500 miles apart. We did go to a counselor a few years ago as I mentioned and for the time we went things were very good.

He was a church pastor, just someone that was recommended to me. I didn't know the guy from Adam, other than I knew who he was. At the time my wife agreed with most of what he said. But as I also mentioned now she says she didn't agree with anything he said.

I personally think the inevitable is coming. I said we'd move to try to start over and she's finding excuses with that. :(

I really feel for you Frank, really I do. I have been in your shoes, well kind of. I had post partum and I needed a break (I was a SAHM then, LOL I learned something today), anyway I came home to visit my parents. While here, my hubby had my boys (my two oldest from 1st marriage, and he filed for divorce while I was supposedly "healing"

So I do know where you are coming from

Ok a notarized letter is what would be needed to prove your intent to have a visit with the children and not that you are intending to take them permanently. You need a copy to give to her and a copy for you to keep. It would be best to get her to sign it but... yeah right, right? Anyway, no the police won't help you in deciding who should have the kids, as in you will go to them and they will say we can't get involved because there is no order to enforce, no set specific time for the children to be with either parent that the police can enforce. Does that make sense? That is why getting a court order for custody/visitation agreed to out of court or ordered by a judge will be imperative to your being able to have legally enforceable time with your children.

Getting the cops involved is not the best way to go because it causes drama for the children. What you would need to do though is to file for a temp custody/visitation order ASAP, you may even be able to get an ex party hearing. That would be an emergency hearing. Talk to a lawyer to find out what possible reasons they can dig up for you/that you may have to get one. Tons of lawyers will do free consults over the phone just to answer questions even if you don't retain one, so your wife will never have to know that you have consulted legal opinion. But you should at the very least know your legal rights. And the procedures for your situation and state. You may find out that it will be pretty simple and resolved amicably and easily.

p.s. some people who are already pretty much wanting to cooperate but seem to need that gentle push can be pushed in that direction with the mention of a lawyer... "in the name of cooperation" of course.

Frank, if you decide to go forward with the divorce - are you still going to move? 1500 miles is really quite a distance - that would make seeing your kids really hard.
How old are the kids? Have you got to talk to them?

You had said that her parents have this weird control thing over her. Do you think that with her being with them 24/7 that they are swaying her? And maybe if you went down there (even for a visit) and got to SEE her and talk to her face to face - things maybe different? I just have a tough time telling you to walk. Marriage is really not an easy thing. (as you know) I think you can still do something to save this. I really do.
But, the key is going to be getting face to face with your wife.

Good Luck, Frank.

That was really good advice from Bushg and NowWhat. Bushg actually shed some insight as to my own situation. That is EXACTLY what is happening with my wife. She goes home and her whole family is just showering her with attention and praise. Its ridiculous (kind of). I can understand caring and compassion for a person that has went through some things and I can understand her family feeling sorry for her. What I don't understand is they aren't talking about what she really wants. My wife's parents divorced and she was ignored for a long time. Well, now she is getting what she missed out so long ago. Must be nice.

First of her, stop sending her the money. Next, get a shrewd family lawyer. He'll know how to proceed. It may take a long time so be patient.

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Originally Posted by superman12370

Dads far too often forget on major thing:they are still your children ,too.Most states have moved away from the "Tender years" which gave most rights to the mother.Your best bet is to immediately (that means today)go find you a mediator(most attorneys can serve as a mediator),and send her a certified letter requesting mediation.then ,after you send the letter, consult your attorney.She'll likely refuse to mediate,which then gives you the freedom to waltz into court with documentation that you tried to settle this amicably ,but =she refused.You then allow your attorney to go for the jugular.this should save you a lot of money,as the judge in many cases will order her to attend mediation and may even make her pay for it.Think smart,play hard,and ignore the watershed tears that are coming (hers and yours)Remember,the relationship is over.Now its time to fight for your kids.Theyre depending on you to be rational.

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Absolutely! Everyone on this thread is trying to play Mr./Mrs. Nice Guy and that's just not going to work in this case.

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Originally Posted by franksandbeans

Can a mod delete this thread please?

Thanks

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Actually, don't delete it. There's a lot of good discussion going on here. Frank, a lot of people are trying to put you on a guilt trip and, unfortunately, you seem to be taken in by it. Don't be taken in by it. What your wife did was wrong, certainly morally and, probably to at least some extent, legally as well. She needs to be held accountable for her actions and you're the only one that can do it. It's your duty as a husband and a father to do it. Now, I'm sure she thinks she had her reasons for doing what she did. And there may be some legitimacy to her concerns. However, where you live as a family is determined by what's best for you as a couple and what's best for your kids, not what's convenient for Mommy and Daddy. She needed to cut herself loose from the apron strings the day she said "I do", if not before. She is married to you, not to her mother and father. Now understand that none of this will carry any weight in a court of law. However, you have equal, joint custody of your children and you can legally force her to let you see them. Furthermore, under the circumstances, she should be held for the logistical and financial issues of providing their transportation to and from visiting with you, while not jeopardizing their schooling and safety. It's up to you to get a court to require her to do all of that. Never mind all the counseling jazz and everything else right now ; that'll get resolved at a later date and that's a separate issue. If your wife wants to move out of state to be with mommy and daddy, there may be ultimately nothing you can do to stop that, but you can certainly make her deal with all of the consequences of that choice. But to do so, you need a court order, so go get it now, without further delay.

Hey Frank, I was wondering if you resolved your issue? I am currently in a very, very similar situation. My bipolar wife took my kids to Alaska and is living with her Dad and Mom and from what little information she has given me, she isn't coming back. Before people start thrashing me, I have read all 7 pages of responses. I am scheduling appointments with lawyers tomorrow, but I was wondering if you found out or did anything that was more beneficial in your situation that may assist me in getting my kids back. From what I've read, I can't do anything at all about it, which sucks because it's like she kidnapped my kids and it's legal because she is a legal guardian. I just don't understand how she is not breaking some kind of law with what she did. There must be something I can do.

If someone knows, would it be just as legal for me to fly up to Alaska and bring them back? Any advice is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by xxxl0new0lfxxx

hey Frank, I was wondering if you resolved your issue? I am currently in a very, very similar situation. My bipolar wife took my kids to Alaska and is living with her Dad and Mom and from what little information she has given me, she isn't coming back. Before people start thrashing me, I have read all 7 pages of responses. I am scheduling appointments with lawyers tomorrow, but i was wondering if you found out or did anything that was more beneficial in your situation that may assist me in getting my kids back. From what i've read, i can't do anything at all about it, which sucks because it's like she kidnapped my kids and it's legal because she is a legal guardian. I just don't understand how she is not breaking some kind of law with what she did. There must be something I can do.

If someone knows, would it be just as legal for me to fly up to Alaska and bring them back? Any advice is appreciated.

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I represented a guy a few years ago whose wife, while he was at work, took their son and left the state without telling him. She called the next day, lied and said they were in Utah but were really in Washington. I filed an emergency court action for him and had the kid back in about a week (back in California). He's had custody of the kid ever since. The mom has had very limited visitation.

You don't have to put up with this nonsense and shouldn't. Just as an overview, here's what I said on another thread about this subject:

"Disappearing with your child and not telling your co-parent where you are--what you might be concerned with in your case-- is a major state and federal crime (and felony).If this happens what you do immediately is file a court action, set an ex parte (emergency) hearing (usually scheduled within a day or so depending on local court rules) in which you request sole legal and physical custody of the child with no visitation to the other parent, make a police report, appear in court and, when the judge grants your request (which will happen) you turn the orders over to the Child Abduction Unit of your local DA's Office and they will help you locate and get your child back.

"That's what is suppose to happen and that is what is expected for any reasonable parent to do in that situation. Don't listen to people who tell you as a dad you have no rights, or that you have to be on the birth certificate to do this, or that "moms always get the kids unless they're prostitutes or heroin addicts" and all of that nonsense. That is total you-know-what offered by people who simply do not know what they are talking about. It's a level playing field. If you ever see yourself questioning this strategy ask yourself one simple question: What would the mom be doing if you did this with the kid (take off and not let her know where you were)? Freaking out, right? So should you."

I'm not recommending any course of action for you other than to consult with a good family law attorney in your jurisdiction. Do it ASAP.

Dude, I am in a very similar situation. What ever happened?

Depending on the state you live in she may not be allowed to move more than a certain number of miles from you. But you need to file for divorce first so you can get visitation and custody scheduled. Her plan is simple ,move out with the kids, out of state so the courts will not hold her within a certain distance,I live in pa and that's what they do here county line isas far as they can go without a court order. Then she gets to live with her mother and get child support from you. You need to stop giving her money and hire a lawyer get a injunction so she cannot leave state(emergency hearing is what you need). So you can see your kids. If you don't do something soon the courts will think you have no problem with her leaving whatever state you live in

Considering this thread is 4 years old, I am sure they have determined an outcome by now.

Please watch dates when responding to threads.