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I have no sympathy for a guy who willingly has intercourse with a woman and then cries he does not want any responsibility for his actions. Go and whine to your buddies. You can ask her to abort the baby, but it is her choice overall. You loved her enough to be with her, sleep with her, etc. Now buck up and act like a man.
See I feel the same way as this guy I grew up not having a dad so I'm kind of scared that when I am a dad will I be a good one cause it is not like a video game can't start over I do not want to abort the child and I do not want to give him/her up and both of us are not that well in the money department so that scares me I feel like I'm going to fail as a father she wants the child yet she says she's scared and doesn't I am more or less scared of the idea right now I was kind of hoping to be older maybe like 25 at least I'm only 20 and she's 19 I hope shs not pregnant and yet I hope she is I really just hope I will be a better dad then my own anyone offer some advice or anything and sorry for posting a question on a question
Personally I don't feel that its right that once a women decides she wants to have a child and the male counterpart objects. Why must the man be held responsabel for the next 18 years because of her final decision?
I don't think a man should be able to decide what a woman can or should do with the baby, but if the woman fully understands that the man does not want a child and she continues with the birth, she should be held accountable solely. A man is left with / has NO choice in the matter which is completely rotten.
There are a lot of women out there that intensionally trap a man and vise versa but we are not talking about that topic here.
JMO.
Snoop, Think about the consequences of having sex with a female before you do the deed, after is to late.
What about the women that concented to having relations its OK for here to decide what's best for him?
Consent is nothing, you have also consented. Guys should take care of their own interests, and not believe a female will do it for them. She can only do what's best for her.
I, alone, agree with most people here. You agreed to have sex with her. Therefore, you agreed to the consequences. If you can't live up to your so called "mistakes," then you are NOT a real man. Your girlfriend deserves so much better than you. I hope that someday she reads all this and realizes that YOU are just a dud in the wind. She SHOULD in deed sue your a$$ for child support and take away your parental rights. YOU do NOT deserve to have such a blessing in your life. Both your girlfriend and your child to be! You are a disgrace to all man. You are the kind of man that keep the good ones from ever getting a chance at life, because you type of men make us woman believe we can't find better. A child is the best thing that could ever happen to a woman. And the thought that you would kill your own flesh and blood, I hope you rot in he!! But, whatever, I told you my opinion. And a note to all woman who read this, "Never give up! Never let yourself believe you will never have better. You, too, can have a wonderful and happy life! Fight for it and live for it! Always remember that us other woman are here for your support. Live your life the way you want, because you only live once!!"
Ouch... I would imagine that you should keep your religious beliefs kept private, we do not all carry the same beliefs as you, I mean no offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by lil_pea07
Sex doesn't always mean baby a woman has the right to keep or ad-bort or adopt I believe that if a man or woman owes child support jail is no good because first the couts favor women that is a fact and if say for example a woman or man is jailed for back support the average to keep an inmate housed is what 30- to 50 a day lets take the lessor 30 that comes out to to around 930 a month in a lot of cases a lot less than the orderd monthly child support amount . And who is footing the bill the tax payers and most of the time the amount to keep someone locked up per month is a lot more than that the support owed so why not pay that amount to the owed parent and forget about jail because in the long run its costing the taxpayers a lot more in keeping the oweing parent in jail plus welfare for the un supported child.
I say the women are given all the choises he men are not I know a lot of women say the man made a chise to have sex but would thes women that think this way believe its OK if the man wants to keep the baby and the woman does not schouldnt the man be abel to stop her legaly I know it's the woman's body but having it both ways is not right
That's why the guys of my generation kept condoms in there wallet . While not 100 proof, better than nothing. Face it guys knowing what can happen maybe think before you consent, and save the drama.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost2927
That's all I have been trying to say! Good post! So Talaniman, how does you view change if at all if the women gets pregnet and wants to abort and the man wants to be a man (as you say)and raise this child, I am going to guess that its still the same opinion for you and the man has no choice?
Until the man can carry the child to term and ruin his own body... sorry, he's SOL.
It's not fair. I agree.
It's also not fair that if a woman gets pregnant and he splits, she's left with ALL of the issues to deal with.
It's not fair that no one judges a man for not raising his own flesh and blood and just sending child support every month, but if a woman did that, people would think the absolute worst of her.
It's not fair that women have to deal with menstruation and everything that goes with it every month.
It's not fair that no matter how responsible both parties are, ultimately the final responsibility is the woman's, because it is HER body that conceives.
It's not fair that men can orgasm pretty much every time they have sex, and that so many women can NEVER orgasm from intercourse.
Want me to keep going on about the things that aren't fair between men and women?
Listen carefully, A man makes his choice before he does the deed, because after that the ball is in her court, and it is her call how she plays it. If you wish to change the facts, then you will be fighting a thousand years of tradition and laws, good luck with that. This may seem unfair on its surface, and life is often unfair, but the man has the choice of where he does his deed and with who, so as inviting as it is it is you who must decide to put the ball in her court or not. Trust me, it is too late to call foul, after the deed is done, and there are no do overs. OOOPS! Does NOT count. So the bottom line is be careful and carry a condom in your wallet or two just in case.
Synnen, you going way off course with the differences of a women and a man. I am not arguing that it probably sucks that you have PMS, I can see this every month when my wife goes through this. This can't be altered, this is the anatomy of a women. I am solely speaking about the rights of a father to be and what's fair or should be at least considered, and I can't disagree more with talaniman. I know life is not fair I have been down this road already and face even more challenges as we speak. I think your way thinking is antiquated for these times with all the new rights and laws that women now have that didn't before..
Having a child should be the decision of both parents to be, it takes two to make a child. I would think that most mothers in this situation (not all) are low income as shown by statistics, there for would most likely be an irresponsible decision being made anyway to have a child for whatever reasons the future mother may have. I don't think that all the pro-life groups have any right to decide what a future mother can or can't do with her body, but maybe it's just time that the government steps in to evaluate the parent(s) to show that they are both willing and capable of raising and supporting a child. If they are not then an immediate action should be taken by the court. After all, once the baby is here, the man is told by the court what he must do or pay without objection.
So should he not have a say in what is to happen? You said it!Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaB4657
Everyone keeps talking about being selfish, who is really being selfish here? The woman knows that the father to be is not going to be around and she will probably struggle with or without a support order and the child will probably live in a substandard environment, and the child will grow up fatherless. Seems to me the mother to be is the one really being selfish and not thinking about anyone but herself.
What it comes down to is that none of this is the baby's fault. Why should the child be punished? Whether the father wants to be a father or not, he did the deed. Yes it takes two but the mother is willing to step up to the plate. Her actions got her pregnant. Could she have stopped him? Of course! But could he have stopped himself. YES! This guy isn't so stupid to think that just because he doesn't want a kid, he couldn't possibly get someone pregnant. You have sex, you could end up with a baby. If you don't want a baby, DON'T HAVE SEX! It's that easy. He knew before he had sex with her that she could get pregnant. He took the risk and now he has to live with the consequences.
If you jump off a bridge into a river, there's a possibility you could drown. You might not. You might live. So do you take the chance and jump and hope you live? NO. (well at least most people wouldn't) If you jump, and you drown, it's because you were stupid. You knew what the consequences could be before you jumped. And you would be naïve to think it couldn't happen to you. You would have no one to blame but yourself. IT's the same with sex. You could end up with a baby. If you're not ready for that, keep it in your pants.
Your right its not the child's fault and should be decided by both parties well before it develops to child.
What I am saying is that whatever choice is made, the choice will affect the mother far more than the father.
After surviving 14 years of being a birthmother (I "stepped up" and "did what was good for the child") I would never ever ever advise someone to go that route.
However... I would NEVER force a woman to give birth to a child she didn't want to give birth to. Pregnancy can be a beautiful thing, but when it's an unwanted pregnancy, even if you love your child, you HATE your body. Everything changes.
Yes, having sex is risking pregnancy. However, consenting to sex is not consenting to pregnancy, by either party.
Should men have more rights? Definitely.
Tell me how you'd give them rights without taking away from the rights women have fought for years to have over their own bodies.
Make her abort because he doesn't want a baby, and is scared of the responsibility?
Make her choose adoption? No way in hell. I would never ever ever force someone to go through 9 months of pregnancy, bond with the child, and then have to give the child to someone else who may or may not keep their promises to keep you updated on the child's life.
Give birth and then give the child to the father who wants to take care of him/her? If he wants a child that badly, he can find a surrogate mother and a surgeon willing to transfer the fetus to another womb.
Let him sign away his rights to get out of paying child support? I don't THINK so!
About the only option I can think of is one that most people in the situation of an unwanted pregnancy wouldn't have done anyway: Draw up legal papers that cover the situation in advance, that would allow him to get out of child support, or legally oblige her to continue the pregancy or whatever the couple decides.
How would YOU give men rights in this situation? Seriously... I'd love to know how you'd do it without taking away the woman's rights.
Well based on your quote a woman took any freedom of choice away during. If the mother is so sure that she wants a child and could careless what the man would like or what's best for a child, then the women should stand up and take her own responsibility for her actions and not look someone else to pay for her mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
So we have determined by opinion that once pregnant a man has no say. Here is the only solution: Like the government continues to try to protect us from ourselves, they will need to rule based on the terms, conditions and financial situation of both parents.
Its actually sad that society has become what it has.
Dude the Supreme Court has already ruled, Its called Rove vs Wade. Stop whining, you just want to get sex with no strings attached. Then get a vasectomy my gosh. Then you don't have the baby thing to worry about.
I think the time for not wanting to be a dad is over. If you were that depserate to not be a dad you need to take care of that yourself and not rely solely on her. I conceived a child while taking the pill correctly, no birth control is 100% effective. You should anticipate pregnancy may be an issue if you have sex. That child is yours and I am not sure it will be so easy for you to wash your hands of it, especially if at some point she has to go onto state benefits. You need to accept the consequences of your actions and stop blaming her entirely for this. It takes two to make a baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by notreadytobeDadyet
Unfortunately, a few bad apples spoiled the bunch here.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnOOp-DiZZLe
I'm sure that behind every skipped, late, missing, and in arrears child support payment there is a man desperately wanting to see his child, but the mother lied about him, stole from him, and gave a sob story to the judge who ruled in her favor.
I agree that it's not fair that a guy has to pay child support on a baby he never wanted to begin with.
What do you want to do to change it? Make it so that no one ever has to pay child support?
I mean, if all it would take to get out of child support payments is to say "Nope! I don't want this kid!" that almost every guy out there who has kids they didn't plan would be screaming it at the top of their lungs.
Maybe if we just made the words "I Love you" a binding contract, that would work? If he even ONCE says "I love you" and receives sex for it (if she records it, of course) that's saying that he wants to have kids with her and get married next year? Get real!
I KNOW! Let's go back a couple centuries and make it so that if you get CAUGHT having sex (i.e. get pregnant), then you have to get married! And can't get divorced just because you're not happy together!
I agree that society is sad. However, if you don't like the laws, and think that they're unfair... tell me what WOULD be fair. Your statement just said that SHE should have to take responsibility too... she does. She makes a choice, usually early in the pregnancy. Tell me what would make it fair for men that would could enforce across the board.
Well, this dude posted this on October 14 and has not been back, apparently he thought we would side with him on his decision. The girl should be giving birth in a month or so, so there is not much we are going to do here to change this particular situation.
But I do like the way this has turned from a question to an open discussion. We get to see everyone's personal opinions now.
It would be interesting to know what's happening with this!
The person who will suffer the most consequences here is the little child. Is it the child's fault that you didn't want her or him? Do you think people never change their minds? They do and often. Why don't you give this little one a chance? If in fact, the mother does not give this baby up for adoption, then you are going to be the father like it or not.
You can be a absentee father and show uncaring as to the welfare of the person you helped make or you can step up to the plate and make the best of this situation. All children are blessings,, and at the same time, not all parents are blessings. Why don't you try to bless this child that may have your eyes and chin? Don't you want them to have a chance? If you don't like children,either get a vasectomy as stated earlier or give up on women. From your post, you would be doing them a favor.
Sorry I sound mad, but your post made me very upset. Poor little unborn baby. Why don't you tell your folks? They may want to help.
I will only say this once, the child comes first and the petty squabbling is irrelevant. Raise the child in love, and if the parents can get over it, COOL, if not... (bad languauge that will be deleted) Get over yourselves!!
It seems to me you are convinced she did not take the birth control pills properly so you feel that she let you down.
I think this is a very valid feeling... you are angry about it and that is understandable. I don't know whether she let you down or not, and you may never know... but I think you need to deal with this "breach of trust" somehow, and this is separate from the child issue, which you have to deal with also.
So there are two things to deal with. Maybe if you deal with the first it will be easier to deal with the second. Right now you feel a lot of anger.. I would try to find out if she really was irresponsible about the pills and then talk it out.
But you have to get past it... you will have to forgive her so you don't carry this anger through the rest of your life. I know someone who went through the same thing and his anger is still with him and it is very sad to see. He is convinced his X-wife stopped taking the pills so she could have a child. It ruined their relationship.
But they both love their son and though you may not feel ready for a child it might happen and there are many many positive things this can bring to your life.
Good luck!
We can argue all we want about who's responsible and what is and isn't "fair" ; why does the woman get to make all the decisions and why doesn't the man have any say? We can argue "woulda, shoulda, coulda" all night long about her being careful with the pill, him using a condom or having a vastectomy, her not taking her pills on purpose, the list goes on and on. But the bottom line is that the child has to be provided for. That's the philosophy that our society, through the legislatures and the courts, has made law and vigorously enforces. Although we have a very generous welfare system, the actual goal of the powers that be is to do everything possible to keep any child from being a burden on society. That's why child support laws are so aggressively enforced and why men in notready's position will receive so little sympathy. Keeping a child off welfare means that the parents must support him/her. This is why the non-custodial parent has to fork over a weekly sum of money to the custodial parent. It may seem unfair, it may seem biased but, as Rhett Butler said to Scarlett O'Hara, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." That's about the reaction that notready will get from any judge, lawyer, welfare agency or any other entity with the authority to enforce child support laws when he and others of like mind complain how "unfair" the system is. Bottom line is, Mom and dad pay to raise their kids, regardless of who forgot to take their pills, who forgot to put on a condom, who should've known better, who gets to decide to abort or not to abort, etc. etc. The system cares about one thing and only one thing and that is the kid ; that his/her needs are adequately provided for without being a burden on society.
I have a son, and from some of the posts on this thread, I can honestly say I would be ashamed to be a mother to some of you young men. How disgraceful and short sighted and selfish to be worrying only about your own well being when it is a fact that the more often you have unprotected sex, the higher degree of risk.
I am just shaking my head and wondering if you were raised at all or if you were, why did you not listen to your parents? If you feel this way about children now, don't expect to change a lot. If you are dishonerable now, you will always be if that is your desire. Heaven help you, for blessings are not likely to flow in the direction of the selfish.
I am afraid that many of you who put the child last and play the blame game toward the woman will eventually be sifting through the sand and looking for your treasures, at he end of your lives. You may only find sand in the end. How sad.
Either you're a man or your not, you take care of what you have brought into this world. And be very proud of what you've done. I am and all the excuses mean not a dog gone thing at all.
I agree!Quote:
The system cares about one thing and only one thing and that is the kid ; that his/her needs are adequately provided for without being a burden on society.
First no one will fully understand till the shoe is on the other foot (Fact). Now onto child support. Let's assume a man loses his job and has trouble finding a new job, let's say that a year or more passes and still no job. The father regardless if he wants or did not want a child can try to file a motion to have his support reduced and I can nearly guarantee the referee will not lower the support based on the new standard "Earning Potential" if the man was making 20.00 per hour and can't find a job for more than 10.00 per hour or not even working, the court tells him he is capable of making 20.00 per hour and this is what the support will be based off.
Second, my wife's co-worker just got divorced he has custody of his child, the ex-wife has 2 other children by a different father. He currently makes more money than his ex-wife and the FOC refused to make her pay him child support based on this.
Third, Support is ordered to reduce the need of state aid. Well regardless if a father is contributing or not, the mother can still collect the State Aid and milk society for her choices..
Snoop, let ME be clear. BOTH mother AND father should assume responsibility of the child. If the father has custody, then the mother SHOULD pay child support for the little one she helped bring into the world.
Let me pose a question to you, snoop. If your parents hadn't of wanted you, would there be an excuse for them to not support you financially while a child? Should accountability and responsibility go by the wayside?
I'll admit, I never asked for child support. I carried the financial burden alone. It was hard, but I did it. I did it FOR my child because I was victimized and the father was an alcoholic and a drug abuser. I did it and I made sure the father did not find out until my son could drive his own car. I take my responsibilities VERY seriously. It irkes me to see some guys snibbling about supporting the little ones who are innocent and need any and all help they can get.
By the way, most people do not collect state aid. How narrow minded to put single mothers in a box. I personally know a few who supported their children without help and by the skin of their teeth.
All men who feel this way avout supporting their own flesh and blood should learn better how to uyse a condom. Most women who find themselves pregnant and unmarried do not plan it... just as men don't always either.
I am not an expert, But I have been through a very similar situation. I got pregnant, did not want a child yet, wanted an abortion. The father pleaded with me to hand over the child at birth and he would take on all responsibilities. Our relationship was not doing well and we had decided to split. His family got involved and begged me to have the child and hand it over. Seeing they wanted the child so bad, how could I not. We signed a letter stating this and that I hold no financial responsibilities at all and had it noterized. I moved out of the state and when the child was 15 his father fell on hard times and came after me for child support. My letter didn't stand up and wasn't even legal. Been paying child support for 2 years now and I have never met the child but at birth. And do to this I have no legal right to any custody. Get a lawyer please.Quote:
Originally Posted by notreadytobeDadyet
I agree and if you think about it women have all the rights for example the draft if there is a war where a draft is implemented it's the men that must go and fight even if they don't want to fight and possibly die. Example 2 Men and women that commit the same crimes are very rarely sentenced the same and it's a fact that there is huge sentencing difference between men and women even when the circumanstances are similar. Men even live less than women this is a fact as well. A woman can use a child and the system to play with the farther but if a man where to attempt this they would be delt with severely by the court.
And finally like I said before consent is one thing being responsible for your act is another but I don't believe that the women schould have all the say weather to keep the child or not give it up or not if this is the way the women want it then men schould have the right to say I will not pay you have the ball in your court so play by yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnOOp-DiZZLe
Agree and if you think about it women have all the rights for example the draft if there is a war where a draft is implemented it's the men that must go and fight even if they don't want to fight and possibly die. Example 2 Men and women that commit the same crimes are very rarely sentenced the same and it's a fact that there is huge sentencing difference between men and women even when the circumanstances are similar. Men even live less than women this is a fact as well. A woman can use a child and the system to play with the farther but if a man where to attempt this they would be delt with severely by the court.
And finally like I said before consent is one thing being responsible for your act is another but I don't believe that the women schould have all the say weather to keep the child or not give it up or not if this is the way the women want it then men schould have the right to say I will not pay you have the ball in your court so play by yourself.
Dude when you give consent you are taking responsibility for your actions. If you don't want that responsibility then 1. keep it in your pants 2 Have a vasectomy 3. Take your chances with birth control. DUH! Your attempts to enjoy the pleasure of sex without responsibility, or consequences, is immature and unrealistic and selfish.
Your feelings will most likely change when you hold your child for the 1st time. Through out my pregancy I resented both my baby and th bloke that gt me pregnant. Th father was gutd when he found out 2. we both love our son. Go easy on her being pregnant is a hed f**k
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