Was the child support FILED through the court system, and PAID through the courts?

If it's not, he never paid--or he'll have a tough time proving he did.

You want an emergency custody order for a child you don't even know where it is? GET A LAWYER!

I'm sorry... I know it's not that helpful, but your son NEEDS a lawyer for all of this, or he WILL lose in court.

I don't have children of my own, but other people that raise children are able to make phone calls to lawyer's offices while taking care of their children. It's called multi-tasking. He should get a phone book and start making calls before work in the morning and after work in the evening, to see if he can contact a lawyer's office that will work with him on payments for their service.

We are in California. The child support automatically is taken from his paycheck. Child Support in California is dealt with the Child Support Department which is a separate department from the Courts. Visitation is separate from the Child Support. Here in California even if a father does not pay child support he has the right to visitation.

Lucky my son is one that has paid his child support.

Thank you for your advice..

Basically your son has taken a lackadaisical attitude towards seeing his child. Emailing her on MySpace is not trying very hard. As soon as he got the court order for visitation, he should have agreed with the mother on a schedule. If she refused to set one, haul her back into court and have the court set something. If a schedule is set and she refuses to turn the child over when he shows up for his time, then haul her back into court for contempt.

I don't see any real effort on his part, I see a token effort probably to satisfy you.

You can and should help him, but not be making calls or harassing people. You did what you did here, find out the law and find out the processes he needs to go through, but HE has to go through them.

First off.. If you really need help filling out the paperwork there is always the Family Law Facilitators Office. There number is listed in the phone book and every court has some. They can help with which paperwork to file etc and then you pay the fees for starting the action. Another thing is he also should file for a reduction in child support. From the sounds of it he didn't have another child before he had this one. So the situation has changed. Another thing Im going to add is that you are sadly misinformed about him not having set days or anything. That is impossible. You keep quoting 20% custody and the only way to calculate that is by having set days of some sort. Sorry but that's the way it works. HE can do this without a lawyer but he really should have one. Also he can go through the child support agency and tell them he wants to make a reduction based upon changed circumstance and that part is free. So no matter how busy he is he needs to make the time to clear up this matter. The ball is in his court.

Calidadof3 my son has tried 6 times to get a reduction and could never figure out the paper work. He would drive all the way to the county where the case is at and they turned him away for having incorrect paper work. The county we lived in turned him away because the case is not here.

But I am going to take him down there and talk to the family law facilitators and make sure it is all done correctly.

He just broke his hand and needs surgery. Right now he is heavily sedated on drugs.. but I told him today or the next he has to tolerate going with me.

I am very upset with him for not letting me help him out with this. The paper work is very complicated. You being in CA you must know it is very difficult. Even the online calculator is hard.
I think he has been mostly overly frustrated and depressed and gave up way to easy..

I love my son very much but his defiance to come to me with help when he needs it really kills me.. specially when it has been this long.

We are still waiting on the visitation orders for I can actually see them. I talked to his ex-wife, the times where set verbally by parents which sounds about right when it was first open the mother just never allowed the visits.

I read, you are allowed visits but they say the courts let the parents decide to work out the schedule and if they can not decide then they need to use a court mediator. Which my son should have used. That is his fault he did not.

Thank you for the answer though I do appreciate it.. any help I get is good.. and I am very thankful.. I am taking what everyone says and I am learning from it. I am very new at this..

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Originally Posted by TerrieS

Calidadof3 my son has tried 6 times to get a reduction and could never figure out the paper work. He would drive all the way to the county where the case is at and they turned him away for having incorrect paper work. The county we lived in turned him away because the case is not here.

But I am going to take him down there and talk to the family law facilitators and make sure it is all done correctly.

He just broke his hand and needs surgery. Right now he is heavily sedated on drugs.. but I told him today or the next he has to tolerate going with me.

I am very upset with him for not letting me help him out with this. The paper work is very complicated. You being in CA you must know it is very difficult. Even the online calculator is hard.
I think he has been mostly overly frustrated and depressed and gave up way to easy..

I love my son very much but his defiance to come to me with help when he needs it really kills me.. specially when it has been this long.

We are still waiting on the visitation orders for I can actually see them. I talked to his ex-wife, the times where set verbally by parents which sounds about right when it was first open the mother just never allowed the visits.

I read, you are allowed visits but they say the courts let the parents decide to work out the schedule and if they can not decide then they need to use a court mediator. Which my son should have used. That is his fault he did not.

Thank you for the answer though I do appreciate it.. any help I get is good.. and I am very thankful.. I am taking what everyone says and I am learning from it. I am very new at this..

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As far as the reduction goes all he has to do is make the call to the child support office. It was decided years ago that they MUST assist the NCP as well as the custodial parent. They may have a backlog in this economy but they should help and file the paperwork for you. Also they should have her current address if they are sending her checks. If you do it yourself then it will be up to you to find her and have her served. Mediation is mandatory in Calif if your going for a change in custody and that's through the courts. It's a one time shot. And that is the sole focus is visitation and not any other disputes. Its provided free by the state. That's only if you file for change in custody.
The family law facilitators office is limited on time but well worth the trip for making those types of changes.

We have managed to submit the paper work for the child support modification. We have also submitted in court visitation/custody papers asking for reasonable visitation. The meet/confer orders stated both parties had to work out the issues before court. My son and the mother met and she still is denying him visits. She threw out comments that she never wanted him to see the child from the beginning, She also told him three times to give up his parental rights and she would drop child support. My son told her No. She told him if he peruses this he will be paying a lot more. My son had a witness with him and she had a witness who recorded the whole conversation. She was very mean and she said she does not owe him anything. She is right she does not owe him anything but she does owe that child something. If she continues with this attitude.. what are our chances in court. For the visitation and 50/50 custody?
Doesn't it already look bad on her not to try to work out visits before the court hearing inst that proof enough that she has kept this child from him for over 6 years.

First, she has no control over what he will pay. This is up to the court and its based on income. So those threats are empty.

I think your chances are very good for visitation and pretty good for joint legal custody.

If she persists in her attitude she risks losing custody entirely and it may turn out that she is the one paying support and having visitation. Yes the courts will not look kindly on someone refusing the father access to the child without good reason.

ScottGem,

Thank you so much for giving me hope.. I have been seriously whacking my brains on trying to help my son. We are going to his daughter school today to push his non custodial rights for he can learn what he can regarding her. She is claiming she has serious illnesses it took him three times asking to find out what they where she is saying severe type one diabetes. When the child was a baby she kept saying she had severe allergies. The mother now claims she does not have allergies anymore.
I have found a couple things I have questions about.
1. I read under the educational rights and privacy act (FERPA) he can go to her school volunteer and eat lunch with the child is this true?
2. I found a blog that said as long as there's no court order, either parent of a child is free to be with that child whenever and wherever he or she wishes. Is this true?
Our court date is not until next month.

1. Can you show us where you read this. It doesn't quite sound right and I'd like to see what the rule actually says.

2. Its partially true. Its not that cut and dried. The problem is that once there is pending litigation you don't want to try an end run around the courts, they won't like it.

First off lets sort a few things out. What he is going through can and is parental alienation. That's a VERY serious thing. Another thing is that what he will be facing is mediation. And if she takes that attitude there then your son needs to plan for full custody on his part. As far as access to records so long as he has " legal " custody of the child then he has access to all the records for school and for doctors. So he should be speaking with them directly. When visiting a child at school he can do that but there needs to be a line drawn so it doesn't fall into the excess category. Doing so would ruin his case against the mother. Im not sure about what your stating in the blog you found and in the future if you come across information you want veryfied here you need to post a link to it. It sounds like what's being said is that without a court order they are equals.. and that is correct. I hope that answers some of your questions.

Also as a side note. If your in California you can if your close enough ask the courts to recommend this place for the both of them. Your son can request it and the courts will confirm they went.

KIDS' TURN www.kidsturn.org

See if its close enough to him.

Hi ScottGem,

This is the first link that I found regarding about the no court order and who has custody. I thought it was pretty simliar to our case.

This is the link from ask your lawyer. You can also Google Mom Scared Dad Might Take Child Q&A it will pop up.

Family Law - Mom Scared Dad Might Take Child Q&A Archive on Lawyers.com

The next link I can not find I was just reading blogs and articles about the non custodial rights to child education and it popped up.

We are not going to just drive up there and see her like that. My son does not want any negative confrontations at all. The mother says he has to wait until the court date. My son only wants what is best for his little girl and that is for her to know she has two loving parents not just one.

He is going to just check on her school records and find out who her teacher is and try to build a parent/teacher relationship with her teacher. I think that is would be good that way he will be prepared for if she is smart and bright like his son or if she has any learning disabilities he needs to be aware of to be prepared to work with his child on.

I hope the courts do not frown on that.

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Originally Posted by TerrieS

He is going to just check on her school records and find out who her teacher is and try to build a parent/teacher relationship with her teacher. I think that is would be good that way he will be prepared for if she is smart and bright like his son or if she has any learning disabilities he needs to be aware of to be prepared to work with his child on.

I hope the courts do not frown on that.

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The Courts in NY would frown on this. I would suggest being very careful when making ANY inquiries of this type. I can see this type of behavior being classified by the other party as threatening - "what if he tries to kidnap my child? Why does he want this info?"

I don't think he has a right to develop a relationship with the child's teacher. I hope I'm wrong - for your sake.

Ok, While the answer was technically correct, it didn't go far enough. In fact if that answer had been posted on this site, it would have been objected to.

First, the question was asked from the custodial parent's view, not the NCP. We have actually had that question asked here several times. Yes its true that both parents have equal rights, but lacking a court order, the CP CAN refuse to hand over the child, forcing the NCP to go to court to enforce those rights.

Your son's case is somewhat different. He's been trying to get visitation, the mother hid the child from him and he's now going to court to enforce his rights.

Now that the case is in the courts he doesn't want to risk alienating the court by going behind their back. He should NOT take any action to try and see his daughter or insert himself into her life (see her teacher, go to the school, etc.) without the knowledge and permission of the court.

Califdadof3

I am in California. My son does not have any visitation/custody orders. He thought he did because of the visitation papers states 20%. No one told him he had to go seek visitation and custody. He assumed that she had the custodial and he had the visitation because of how the child support papers and he was paying child support.
He has tried to find her in the pass with no avail. The child support department has always refused to give him her address.

I still can not believe anyone one would do this to their child. My son has a son that lives with him most of the time and the mother and him never fought over visitation. They do not even fight over money they fixed it where neither of them pay child support because that would bring hardship on all of them. My grandson is ready for the gate program and just received the perfect attendance award and citizen of the month award.

We are hoping to show what a well rounded little guy my grandson is that he could prove what a good father he is. We are hoping that the family relationship with the mother would be in our favor in court.

My son is living with me but we have a 4 bedroom house and plenty of room for everyone even the other child. My son moved back home for he can get more education. I know it might not look good to the courts he lives with his parents but I am very worried that if we let this slip away again then she will disappear again.

The conversation he had with the mother the other night that she recorded. My son's friend heard her say that she never wanted him to have anything to do with the child from the beginning. Can he be used as a witness for that conversation?

My grandson wants to write a letter to the judge to tell him that he loves his big sister and would like her to be able to be apart of our lives.. are we allowed to give that letter to the judge?

I am planning to make a portfolio of categorize everything, for we will not walk in there empty handed.

Also, I attend to get affidavits from my mother over a call that was made to her from the mothers brother saying the child had server allergies and was sick all the time. The other day the mother said she did not have allergies anymore now she has sever type 1 diabetes.

I do not know what to believe but I found tons of information on diabetes. I am also searching for a class my son can take for if she does have that we can learn how to take care of her also to show the judge we are prepared for her illness. If she doesn't have it well she is going have to explain to the judge why she told us that.

Here is a really good question. I am a notary and I need to know am I allowed to notarize affidavits for this case. Example I got an affidavit from someone who witnesses or can say what type of parent he is. My son is not the one signing the document. Does that still constitute as personal gain? If you know that answer I would really appreciate the advice. We do not have much money to pay for tons of notary's.

I am also going to add notes regarding parental alienation because I can not explain what else it could be to cause someone to do this.

Please let me know if this is a good game plan with no attorney.

Now that I know to post what I find here I will do my best to do that for now on.

Thank you

ScottGem & JudykayTee,

I am sure glad you both mentioned that we will listen to you and stay far way until the court date.

I'm a little confused here. If he has court papers that say he has 20% visitation, then he already has a court order for visitation. So you should be asking the court to order the mother to setup AND adhere to a schedule. If you are looking for increased visitation, that's another thing.

As for your grandson's writing a letter to the judge, you should be asking the court to appoint a guardian ad litum to represent the child. The GAL will act in the child's interest and will forward any letters from the child to the court. The GAL can also request copies of any medical history. Your son should ask the court to appoint a GAL immediately. So the GAL can get this info in advance of your court date.

As to notarization, I'm surprised you ask. I believe a notary is not allowed to act in any situation where they have a personal interest. That would be unethical.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

As to notarization, I'm surprised you ask. I beleive a notary is not allowed to act in any situation where they have a personal interest. That would be unethical.

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Scott is absolutely correct here. A notary is not allowed to notarize paperwork if he/she has a personal interest in the matter. That is strictly prohibited.

Also, I would like to address the school situation. Neither you nor your son should show up at school, or talk to the teachers, unless either of you are on the school's paperwork. This could be viewed as stalking and could raise some eyebrows at the school as far as possible parental abduction is concerned.

This day in age the schools are very leery to let adults visit children in school unless they are on an approved list made by the legal custodial parent.

ScottGEm

The family clerk told me when I was in the office that the child support papers are not visitation papers they stated that it is what they use to calculate what the father needs to pay in child support. That is where my son was confused.

I have only used my notary for work. I have not personally used. I do know that I can not use for personal gain and the book clearly states is a graded shaded area and only in some circumstances but does not give any good examples. When I asked the secretary of states office they told me they could not tell me the answer and I needed to ask an attorney.

I have never heard of a GAL. I will call the courts and find out about that. My son, son has such a big open loving heart. He is already very excited that one day he will see his big sister. With my grandson having that personality this is how I know my son's daughter will adjust too. My grandson will help her a lot also just by being her brother.

J_9, I did get that about the school we are staying away from all that completely. I believe they did the meet/confer orders to contact each other upon arrival of paper work to try to work it out.

I have been looking into the kidsturn.org program calidadof3 suggested. It sounds like a great program and they go by your income.

I do appreciate all the advice all of you have given him. I was so confused when I first started trying learn what I was doing. You all have helped me very much even with the advice that at first I thought was not great.. but then realized it helped me focus in to what I really need to care about. It helped me learn so much. If I have more questions I will come back.. and when the court date is over I will let you all know how it turns out.

Thank you all
Your all in my prayers
Your all very good people helping people the way you do. :)