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Originally Posted by midwestmom

what about the false accusations question

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She brings her proof and they bring theirs and the Judge decides.

If you don't mind my getting personal - and you don't have to go into great detail - what are they/will they allege? Many of these things can simply be countered by the way you present yourself, your medical records, your employment record, your Police Record. They ARE allowed to bring in hearsay (this is not criminal court) but, of course, if it's terribly off the wall no one will pay attention.

She can bring witnesses; they can bring witnesses. She is her own best witness - the way she presents herself, she must keep her temper, she must be clear and respond to the questions. If there were problems she needs to address them, not deny them, and explain how she has straightened things around, the steps she continues to take.

If there were problems in the past and she's resolved them, that will be taken into consideration. If there are/were problems she may get a visitation schedule set up and then as she proves herself, her visitation will gradually increase.

Depending on the circumstances custody may not be changed back to her but I do see visitation with an eye to custody down the road.

I don't know what the Court will do about the fraud - that remains to be seen.

I don't like it and I always complain when people turn these posts personal but she is very, very fortunate to have you, a supportive sister, in her life and you can also present yourself to the Court as an interested party, someone who is aware of the situation, someone who is willing to help both parties resolve this, for the good of the child. I note you don't rant and rave about the grandparents. You present what you have to say clearly and concisely without anger. A lot of people go through this alone and you are a stand up person! Your sister is very fortunate.

Was your sister married to the father? You have been using the word 'guardian' or 'guardianship', rather than 'custody'. Of course, your sister has rights in a custody proceeding. Once you have a copy of the proceedings and the order (whether guardianship or custody), she can take the order by the sheriff's office and have them look at it to see if she can get their assistance in taking custody of her child. They have experience reading documents like this and will tell you what they can do to help.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Was your sister married to the father? You have been using the word 'guardian' or 'guardianship', rather than 'custody'. Of course, your sister has rights in a custody proceeding. Once you have a copy of the proceedings and the order (whether guardianship or custody), she can take the order by the sheriff's office and have them look at it to see if she can get their assistance in taking custody of her child. They have experience reading documents like this and will tell you what they can do to help.

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This depends on the State - in my area the Police will not get involved in a family court matter. They will advise the mother to go back to Court. The whole "was my child kidnapped by the other parent" question gets posted somewhat frequently because of this.

Police have no way of knowing if the Order is still valid, has been modified, whatever the situation is.

Obviously different where you are -

Thank you so much for both of your answers. If you can think of anything else that ma help in this case please feel free to comment or ask for further info. No she did not marry the father of her child, in fact she is in the process of getting a restaining order against him. Court is Friday

I'm sorry, but the court on Friday is for the restraining order

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

This depends on the State - in my area the Police will not get involved in a family court matter. They will advise the mother to go back to Court. The whole "was my child kidnapped by the other parent" question gets posted somewhat frequently because of this.

Police have no way of knowing if the Order is still valid, has been modified, whatever the situation is.

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Yes, let me distinguish because where I live the Sheriff is (more or less) the enforcement arm of the court, not the police. I would not get the police department involved unless it was a last recourse. What I would do is go to the courthouse and get a copy of the entire file, front to back. Find any "orders" and read them carefully to determine whether the grandparents have 'guardianship' or 'custody'. If it says 'guardianship', I would expect the sheriff would go with the mother and pick-up the child.

Oh yeah! She was advised my an attorney to not petition for visitation because that would be acknowledgement of the court order.

After an order is filed, it is considered 'acknowledged' by 'all the world', whether they've seen it or not. Why not work on the custody/guardianship issue first, and worry about visitation later. I don't see where this attorney's advice would matter because the grandparents provided your sister with plenty of evidence that something was cooking with respect to the child.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Yes, let me distinguish because where I live the Sheriff is (more or less) the enforcement arm of the court, not the police. I would not get the police department involved unless it was a last recourse. What I would do is go to the courthouse and get a copy of the entire file, front to back. Find any "orders" and read them carefully to determine whether the grandparents have 'guardianship' or 'custody'. If it says 'guardianship', I would expect the sheriff would go with the mother and pick-up the child.

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I don't have Police where I live - I should have said Law Enforcement Officers. We only have Sheriffs and State Troopers, not a local Police force.

But they still won't get involved. As I said, they want a Court Order first. They are not willing to review paperwork and make a legal determination as to whether that paperwork is still in good standing and/or modified or even correct.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

After an order is filed, it is considered 'acknowledged' by 'all the world', whether they've seen it or not. Why not work on the custody/guardianship issue first, and worry about visitation later. I don't see where this attorney's advice would matter because the grandparents provided your sister with plenty of evidence that something was cooking with respect to the child.

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I agree with you - what?

Hello mom:

I've been reading the good advice you've already gotten. Now, your last response has me caterwompus...

Given her situation, I don't know why an attorney would tell her NOT to petition for visitation. If he heard the WHOLE story, VISITATION would have nothing to do with what his job would be. If he heard the whole story, his job would be to overturn the guardianship -NOT VISITATION.

If he DID hear the whole story and said what he said, she should NOT hire that lawyer. If he heard the whole story and we're NOT hearing it, then we need the whole story.

Why again, is the reason she gave them up?

excon

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Originally Posted by midwestmom

oh yeah! She was advised my an attorney to not petition for visitation because that would be acknowledgement of the court order.

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Actually I agree with the attorney's advice. She should be fighting the guardianship. But what I'm not clear on is how the child got to the grandparents in the first place. The father may have relinquished his rights (though I question that), but why did the child move in with the grandparents? How did that come about? Does she want to child to live with her full time or does she just want to see him more often?

Clearly your sister has been taken advantage of, but to what extent its hard to tell. She really needs an attorney to be an advocate so she goes about things the right way.

OK back to the beginning... My sister was 15 when she had the baby. She and the baby lived with the father, who lived with his parents. The named grandparents in this case.

So, when she left her boyfriend (the father) they agreed to share the child 50/50 (I hope is not a crule way of putting it) Just so they wouldn't fight on who gets custody. The boyfriend still lived with his parents so they took care of the child a lot. The time that my sister got with the child started to dwindle and the grandparents started having problems with their son (the child's father) so they had the papers drawn up on guardianship, then convincing my sister that it was only for partial guardianship and not to worry. It was in case of emergency. It was not easy for the two parents (my sis and exboyfriend) on transportation. They lived over an hour away from each other so the grandparents would drive sometimes.

How old is your sister now? How old was she when she signed those documents? When the child was born did the father sign the Birth Certificate or was he listed on it? Was there any court proceedings to determine custody or paterntity prior to to last February? How old was the father when the child was born. What State is this?

Thank you! You should have lots of good advice to follow.

My sister is 19. She just turned 19 when she signed. The father signed the birth certificate BUT legally, paternity has not yet been established. (btw, he is the father). The father was 16 when the child was born. We are in Illinois. The father, grandparents, and the mother were living in different counties but now if there are any court proceedings it will be in Kane county, IL

She really needs a lawyer! She was over 18 when she signed meaning that legally speaking she was capable of making such a decision. If the father signed the afidavid of paternaty at birth then legally he is the father generally the only time a DNA test is required is when he dosen't sign. The fact that he was underage could be a factor if brought up in court but I don't see it having much bearing because if the judge does order a DNA test and it comes back positive then it's basically a mute point.

It doesn't really matter if he is the father. The fact is the grandparents are named and are the guardians of the child. What should my sister do ? What steps may she take? Obviously she is young and does not have much money, so an attorney is prob out of the question. Someone said she could try going to the courthouse and getting the file, bringing it to the sheriff and picking up the child. Can she do that in the state of Illinois? They threatened to bring the police to my house and pick him up with police escort because the mom wanted to keep him longer

How hard would it be to prove FRAUD is afoot in this situation without going in front of the judge with an attorney? Will the judge say it is invalid because it wasn't done right? Could they just end the guadianship if the judge sees the proof? There were errors in the paperwork which were overlooked by whomever sealed and the judge that signed it.

Any attorney is going to tell me I need him/her so they stay in business. There has to be a way we could do this... any answers?