Ask Me Help Desk - Making custody more fair

Look, you say she is forgiven, but it doesn't come across that way in what you write. What you are going through, possibly, is parental alienation. That is what you should try to change - not support.

I have a friend that is divorced from the father of the child and just remarried. I can assure you that she does not use her support payments for herself. I am sure there are women or parents that do that - and it's sad.
But, to put a blanket statement out there that ALL women do this - that is just wrong.
Child support should go for housing, clothing, food, medical needs, education, activities outside of school, etc. When you do the math, the payment that is typically set up by the court doesn't leave enough left over for a day at the spa!

You need to get a GREAT attorney and fight for your child. Do what you have to do to see her and be a part of her life. I am sorry for what you have been through to this point - it isn't fair and it isn't right. Don't get lost in trying to change the law until you have done what you need to do when it comes to your child.
Good Luck.

"Look, you say she is forgiven, but it doesn't come across that way in what you write."

Perhaps I haven't all the way; sometimes I do tend to get upset now and then, but I sincerely forgive her for how she is and has been: it's fact that she suffers from the diseases I listed previously, including being a chronic liar. Her mother said that all of that is in her medical files.

I cannot get that great attorney because I don't have anywhere near the funds to have one. And we're not talking about a local lawyer; I'd have to get one in her state.

I've decided that it's best to give up the fight for any custody or visitation or be in my daughter's life. I'm very serious about saying the mother will make up lies about what I am doing with my time with my daughter, I'll end up being arrested, losing jobs and labeled a sex offender the first time momma feels like being vindictive.

Not too mention the active threats from her family, including an uncle who just got out of prison for murder and a rap sheet a mile long. My family is mostly all college graduates; her family is mostly all correctional facility graduates. I can imagine one day driving 120 miles to pick up my daughter, and not coming back home.

Trust me, the best interest of my daughter is to give up; not on her, but her mother. Her mother, last I heard, will be marrying a 'sugar-daddy', so she will have a father around. My last focus now is to make sure that she cannot make demands for back-support ten years or so from now.

I meant to imply some of women do that, not all, so I apologize if that is what is sounds like I was saying. Anger has been quite a companion this past year, and even though I've gotten a lot of it out, it still stops by every now and then.

I am trying to figure out what to say next. It sounds like you are giving up on the situation and doing what is best for you. No one wants to put themselves in harms way, I get that. But this is the environement that your child is in. If you feel there is danger there - shouldn't you do what you can to get HER out of that?

Has this woman asked you for support? Are you listed on the birth certificate as the father? I am not 100% on this, but if there is not an order in place or if paternity isn't established, then I don't think she can come after you for back support. There is nothing in place to say that you HAVE to pay this amount each month - so what could the system order you to pay back?

And if her family is all bad - how are you getting information from her mother?

If you do not want to be a father to this child - then when she does marry the "sugar daddy" - maybe he could adopt this little girl and you would be "off the hook".

I think it is very sad that people let there emotional baggage get in the way when a child is involved. So, it didn't work out with you two, it happens. It is not the child's fault and she needs both parents doing what is necessary to provide her with a happy, stable life.

You both are going to miss out on so much. You won't have the joy of being a father and she won't have the joy of having you. It's sad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NowWhat

I am trying to figure out what to say next. It sounds like you are giving up on the situation and doing what is best for you. No one wants to put themselves in harms way, I get that. But this is the environement that your child is in. If you feel there is danger there - shouldn't you do what you can to get HER out of that?

Has this woman asked you for support? Are you listed on the birth certificate as the father? I am not 100% on this, but if there is not an order in place or if paternity isn't established, then I don't think she can come after you for back support. There is nothing in place to say that you HAVE to pay this amount each month - so what could the system order you to pay back?

And if her family is all bad - how are you getting information from her mother?

If you do not want to be a father to this child - then when she does marry the "sugar daddy" - maybe he could adopt this little girl and you would be "off the hook".

I think it is very sad that people let there emotional baggage get in the way when a child is involved. So, it didn't work out with you two, it happens. It is not the child's fault and she needs both parents doing what is necessary to provide her with a happy, stable life.

You both are going to miss out on so much. You won't have the joy of being a father and she won't have the joy of having you. It's sad.

I'm not doing what's best for me. Keeping a certain to be nasty, life-long situation between the mother and I from the child is the best thing for the child.

No, she hasn't asked me for support and no, I am not on the certificate.

All that has been done up to this point is that I have signed up for the putative father registry in two states. I have tried to convince her to let the hubby adopt so that I can be done with it all. I am trying to prevent her from coming back in some years, taking me to court, proving paternity and demanding thousands in back-support that I definitely don't and won't have.

All I wanted to do is be a father to my daughter Anna, and all the mother has done is keep me out of it for all the nine months, and the now five months after the birth. I'm burnt out, I'm tired, I do not have money, social services and pro-bono will not help me, and I want nothing ever again to do with the mother. I got the information from her mother shortly after the pregnancy was announced to me.

Take a look at my next post, which was one of the last emails I sent to the mother.

XenoSapien

Dear (Momma), March 1st, 2007

I wanted to tell you that I am happy about our conversation a week ago where you openly and finally told the truth about lying throughout our relationship. It was big of you to do so, and it is nice to see that you understand that it is in fact what you did to me, and the cause of a lot of unwarranted pain.

However, it has created a nasty side-effect. By you doing so, it has confirmed every complaint that I made throughout this entire time that we have known each other. It is like spending a lot of time, slowly putting something together, and finally finishing it. Your revelation has given me some peace now, but I'm afraid that it has also made me so astonishingly angry and hateful, that I cannot deal with you any longer.

I have never lied to you throughout our relationship, and I will not start now. So since you finally displayed courage in coming clean with the truth, I wish to do the same for you. I told you a while back that you will always be in my heart. This is an unchangeable fact, as I have told you that all women that are special to me are located there. Unfortunately in your case, you occupy the most nasty, black, hateful, angry and disgusting part of my heart. All of my anger, frustration, hatred, rage and boorishness now has a name--it is momma.

I cannot believe that you have had the courage to yet again say something so sickening. Admitting that you do wrong first, but by your own words, "eventually tell the truth". This is exactly what a sociopath does, momma. You have made me so extremely angry now, that I can no longer bring myself to communicating with you any longer. I am now wholly convinced that from here onward, no matter what comes out of your mouth, it is likely going to be a lie. I was so hopeful that you would escape that behavior, but after two years, you still do it. You are not as mature as you say you have become now.

Since my hatred for you is so overwhelming, here is what I want you to know and do: First, I suggest that you have your lawyer examine this document. Second, ask your lawyer how I can submit DNA without traveling to Illinois, for I am in fear that going there will be setting myself up to be beaten up by your hostile family members.

Third, request of your lawyer to send papers that will allow me to sign away all of my rights in regards to Anna. My anger is so total and definitive, that I wish to no longer even hear your voice, or know anything about you from here on to my own death. I find you totally repulsive, mentally unstable and untrustworthy, and I feel that you will be nothing but nasty towards me for the next 18 years.

I highly suggest that you accept my offer. You will have all the power over our child like you wanted. I am giving you what I know you want. If for any reason, you wish to contact me, you must do it only through email, as I will no longer accept phone calls from you. I am sick to death of you calling past 11pm, knowing full well that I go to sleep early. It is rude for you to do so, and I am tired of it. Many times in the past, I would call you very early in the morning, and it would piss you off. So please extend the same curtousey.

When this all started, all I wanted us to do was to work as a team, but teamwork is nothing you have ever cared for doing with me. You ultimately want everything done exactly your way, and I am now offering you this opportunity. So I must say clearly, that if you do not do these things, I will ask my father's attorney to make sure that this happens. Our daughter will be yours, and you will win. You will win, momma.

I am tired of waking up in the middle of the night, sick to death with worry about Anna, and hating her mother of whom I do not trust; and tired of only tears putting me back to sleep.

Remember when the X-hubby and I confronted you about lying about your marital status? Remember what I told you in my car, and occasionally throughout the rest of our relationship? That I did not have full trust in you, and that you needed to earn it back. Not only have you not earned it back, but you have proven to not care to even get any of it back, despite the serious issue of an innocent child being involved. I cannot request that this changes in you any longer. I no longer care.

I am not giving up on our daughter; I am giving up on you.

I think that you are an evil, vindictive, worthless piece of of which I couldn't care less if you get hit by a bus or choke on (new boyfriend's) . You must pat yourself on the back, because you are now my most hated person on the entire planet earth. I have irreversible damage done by you, and it will not go away. I am in fear that by you remaining in my life, I will never heal from this.

This is why I no longer want anything from you. I think you are sick, need a deep psychological investigation, and placed in a padded room. Not to be mean, but rather, to tell my true feelings and assessment of you. I think you are not human, and the first time I called your mother after you said you were pregnant, she supported me when I said that you showed signs of a sociopath, a psychotic, someone with borderline personality and bi-polarism. She told me that it was all in your medical files.

I no longer have a desire to withstand the same kind of psychological punishment you administered over this two-year period for the next 18 years. Congratulations, you are now entirely free to lie to yourself, others and even our daughter without any interference from me.

Having me believe Anna was dead for 12 days is terminally sickening. You can lie to yourself all you wish that you didn't mean it in a sickening manner, when in fact the records will show that you did. Regardless, this is a classic sociopathic statement and purely evil.

I now have also realized that I told you the truth that I'm really not mad at you for what you have admitted to doing to me throughout our relationship. You have confirmed that you are a very sick person who only deserves my utter hatred. And it is sad that you will use a baby as a bargaining tool, a whip, and most importantly, as a weapon.

I also recall a time when you questioned "what have I done" with regards to your pregnancy. Since you initially demanded to keep me out of it all, I put together a plan. I saved my money for a nice computer. I finally had the lay-a-way paid completely off in 1.5 months, and took my computer home. I went officially online in mid-to-late September of 2006.

After 'plinking' around for about a week or so, I found a blogger site program. I signed up, and started writing blogs. While I wrote my blogs, I also did the following:

What I Have Done For Nine Months...
(no particular order)

1) Made contact with Illinois Legal Services. Was told that they do not help those that are not Illinois citizens.

2) Made contact with Indiana Legal Services. Was initially ignored. Then told that they do not have jurisdiction.

3) Made contact with Illinois Pro-Bono Services. Ignored.

4) Made contact with Indiana Pro-Bono Services. Told that Indiana does not have jurisdiction.

5) Made contact with Indiana Attorney General's Office. Responded to within two weeks. Told that they could do nothing because of jurisdiction, but offered ideas.

6) Made contact with Illinois Attorney General's Office. Initially ignored. Then after about five months and after Anna's birth, sent by snail-mail, a list of people who may help, but they are people who have already ignored me, or have told me that I am not an Illinois citizen.

7) Made contact with Community Legal via online. Signed up, and was told they would help me. They never made me a client and took my money for no services rendered. They were fired.

8) Made multiple attempts for online free legal advice; most of which were returned as unanswered.

9) Contacted by phone and fax, Maury Povich. Was told to get a public defender, then was hung up on.

10) Sent letter to local newspaper to the "Dear Annie" section. Ignored and never responded to or printed.

11) Sent letter to Pastor John Hagee about my situation. Responded to with helpful prayers and hope.

12) Sent mass emails to multiple custody attorney's in Illinois. Three out of twenty responded. Only one offered help at 500$ as a retainer. Have not re-contacted the only one who offered this help. Cannot afford services.

13) Spent countless hours on research of the Illinois custody laws in pursuit of self-representation and the Illinois law.

14) Spent countless hours on research of the Indiana custody laws in pursuit of self-representation and the Indiana law.

15) Signed up for the Illinois Putative Father Registry; in fear, as stated by you, that you would allow boyfriend to adopt our child.

16) Signed up for the Indiana Putative Father Registry; in fear, as stated by you, that you would allow boyfriend to adopt our child.

17) Contacted National Brotherhood of Father's Rights. Received mass emails about possible options and helpful tools. Could not afford actual services, but thankful about options.

18) Contacted private investigator to check into whether mother was pregnant. Could not afford services.

19) Contacted the law offices of Cordell and Cordell. Had one-hour counsiltation with attorney. Could not afford services.

20) Created blogsite:

21) Created Website:

22) Paid friend to draw the following picture:
[See main picture above]

Lastly, I must inform you that if you and your lawyer submit this email to any judge, it could be unwise, as you will be admitting all of these things as fact, and this could lead to many nasty outcomes on your end.

If this email has made you angry to the point where you wish to take the law in your own hands, like you have already threatened to do, and send family members after me for a "beating", please let them know the following:

There are two befriended Sherriff's where I live. One of whom has been briefed on my situation, and lives in the very next building to mine. He is only one phone call away, and usually home.

Let who you send to do your dirty work (of which you have a history of making people do, including your own daughters) know that my County jail is one of the worst county jails in the entire country. And from what I've been told, a bullet in the head is far more preferred by those who have spent time there.

Also, let who you send know that I have a military friend who has many friends who materialize out of thin air, and their revenge will be guaranteed swift and decisive.

Also, make sure that you are aware that you have active harassment charges on you here in Indiana Sherriff's Department, September twenty-first, 2006.

Momma
-Legal History Overview-
1997-2006

[ Momma's criminal record can be found on here in the article starting with, "I realize that it has been a while since I've written a new post."]

Plans I Made:

Plan A Make an appeal to do all of this as a team.

Plan B Fight for full-custody.

Plan C Prove her unfit; fight for full-custody.

Plan D Prove her unfit; fight to put child up for adoption.

Plan E Sign away all of my rights.

The final bottom line is this, momma, mother to our daughter Anna: I'm not interested in the opinion of the Court of Man; for I will be vindicated in the Court of God.

Wow. I am speechless. The anger and hatred just pours off this.

The first thing I thought of - and I am going to be completely honest - was - there is no way I would send my kid to a man that hated me that much. I just wouldn't.

This situation just stinks! For you and for your daughter! SHE is the victim here.

One day she is going to knock on your door (probably after years of being lied to) and want to know why you didn't want anything to do with her. I would advise you to start a journal to your daughter. So when that day comes - you can hand it to her and show her how you have felt - her entire life. It could be like a book of letters to her, because I am sure that your ex won't give her any correspondance.

Like I said, the only one that is losing here is Anna.

You are right! You are right, you are right! Anna is the one who will lose on this. And my sapient responder NowWhat, I have 100,000 words waiting for Anna when she comes. I have been very careful to keep my anger out of it ( I wrote it while she was just a fetus).

This was the anger I carried for the nine months, and as folks here have pointed out, perhaps some, but not all the hatred and anger for what the mother has done is completely gone. I'm working on it, as I have met a wonderful woman who treats me very well, and is the exact opposite of this mess.

As a side note, I'm almost convinced that momma will tell her lies about me, as momma already told me that she would tell Anna that I am dead or in prison for life. See my other amendment post that will show you momma's and my criminal record. All I've tried to do is the right thing. I may have a funny way of doing things, but I always come out OK.

XenoSapien

Oh, I think you are still angry and probably always will be. I would be too. You are being forced away from what should be the greatest experience of your life - fatherhood.
I'm a mother - I would die if my child was taken away. I would also fight until my last breath to get my child in my life.

I keep wanting to write "you have to do what you think is best" and I keep deleting it, because I am not convinced that walking away is the best thing. It may be the safest thing. THis situation is very complex and I would hate to be in your shoes. It's just that my mind keeps seeing a baby girl without her Daddy and it makes me very sad.
I wish the best for you and your daughter and I hope it all works out for everyone involved.
Just be diligent in your letters to Anna. Because, we both know that day - that knock, will come. And you will have a mountain of lies to overcome. Be ready. It may be all you have to offer her.

I have read your entire blog. Here are the simple facts:

You claim: Babies As Weapons
Fact: it's your daughter who has the right to a relationship with you
Fact: it's your daughter who has a right to financial support from you
Mom is withholding the relationship from Dad to get back at him for whatever reason.
Dad is withholding the financial support to get back at mom for whatever she did to him.
You are both withholding the rights of your child to punish the other parent. You are both using that baby as a weapon!

You're sharp, but I don't owe her a dime at this point; she is not being punished.

XenoSapien

Quote:

Originally Posted by XenoSapien

"Look, you say she is forgiven, but it doesn't come across that way in what you write."

Perhaps I haven't all the way; sometimes I do tend to get upset now and then, but I sincerely forgive her for how she is and has been: it's fact that she suffers from the diseases I listed previously, including being a chronic liar. Her mother said that all of that is in her medical files.

I cannot get that great attorney because I don't have anywhere near the funds to have one. And we're not talking about a local lawyer; I'd have to get one in her state.

I've decided that it's best to give up the fight for any custody or visitation or be in my daughter's life. I'm very serious about saying the mother will make up lies about what I am doing with my time with my daughter, I'll end up being arrested, losing jobs and labled a sex offender the first time momma feels like being vindictive.

Not too mention the active threats from her family, including an uncle who just got out of prison for murder and a rap sheet a mile long. My family is mostly all college graduates; her family is mostly all correctional facility graduates. I can imagine one day driving 120 miles to pick up my daughter, and not coming back home.

Trust me, the best interest of my daughter is to give up; not on her, but her mother. Her mother, last I heard, will be marrying a 'sugar-daddy', so she will have a father around. My last focus now is to make sure that she cannot make demands for back-support ten years or so from now.

I meant to imply some of women do that, not all, so I apologize if that is what is sounds like I was saying. Anger has been quite a companion this past year, and even though I've gotten a lot of it out, it still stops by every now and then.

You know, I can't believe that you are just going to abandon your daughter to live with this family. If they are as bad as you say... FIGHT for your daughter! Or do you really want her to grow up thinking that this is how life should be, and how she should act and treat people? Because that's what's going to happen.

And according to you, you have not legally established your paternity so as you put it: "...I don't believe he has any 'legal' rights if paternity hasn't been established..." and "...Shouldn't matter. He isn't on the certificate, and paternity has not been established. Since women have great leverage in the courts, do nothing, and make him fight for his rights. It's the only option a man has with today's court. You have the power..."

So, your ex is legally denying you nothing. According to you, you have no rights. You don't even know for a fact that the little girl is yours and since it is your own advice to a "womb", as you like to put it, "make him fight for his rights" how can you complain when your ex is doing just that?

So you aren't being punished either.

You're right with what you're saying, but see, this is why I've stated that I shouldn't have put these 'amendments' up here in the first place. I have decided the best thing is to walk away, and not fight for those rights.

I am not complaining. I know what I've said, and it still remains, unless a lawyer tells me it's incorrect--women DO have all the power, and men can DO nothing if paternity has not been established.

In my particular situation, yes, I haven't been able to prove paternity. But, I have been worn to the point to where I no longer wish to fight for it. See, too much to explain.

XenoSapien

Quote:

Originally Posted by XenoSapien

-- If the custodial parent remarries or lives with a partner of for at least "X" years, support payments from non-custodial parent should be greatly reduced/eliminated. There is now a second parental figure in the child's home, and two parents is in the best interest of the child. This will alleviate the financial burden on the non-custodial parent.

Does this sound fair?

XenoSapien

In a recent Second District Illinois Appellate Court decision, which holds "a trial court may equitably consider the income of a parent's current spouse in determining an appropriate award of child support...In general, a new or subsequent spouse's income is not supposed to be included in figuring child support calculations. Doing so will almost always raise the support amount for the non-custodial parent. Even though it's not supposed to be included, judges and attorneys will often attempt to add it in one way or another It's not uncommon for your spouse's financial data to be requested by either the court or opposing counsel as part of a child support modification. Typically they'll want you to provide your spouse's tax returns, bank statements, and pay stubs, although often just the income tax return will be enough for them to draw a figure from.However, because couples are likely to pool their resources, thereby possibly increasing the resources available to the supporting parent, the employment or income status of the supporting parent's new spouse is relevant to the issue of the parent's "available means" where marriage to a spouse earning a substantial income results in the parent having more disposable income available since remarriage

I won't give you a reddie George. But I vehemently disagree! Though it can not be denied there are women out there that do that, it is a disgusting, untrue, blanket statement and stereotype!

OK- In my opinion we all came out of the main post.
Xeno asked a question,"If the custodial parent remarries or lives with a partner of for at least "X" years, support payments from non-custodial parent should be greatly reduced/eliminated. There is now a second parental figure in the child's home, and two parents is in the best interest of the child. This will alleviate the financial burden on the non-custodial parent.Does this sound fair?"

Here I agree with NowWhat who wrote,"Both parents are equally responsible for the well being of said child. Regardless of the custodial parent's marital status. Once you become a parent - you are ALWAYS responsible for that child.
Each parent is responsible for the child that they created. The support should go to pay for housing, clothing, food, etc. The needs of the child. That is the PARENT'S responsibilty - not the step parent."
... and I agree with Fr_Chuck,"Child support is a matter of state law, based on income guidelines."

Well,Let me describe a hypothetical situation.The first parent is a primary caretaker.The second one has support duty and has visitation.The custodial parent lived in a rented apartment/house... /When the child support was calculated . The income of the custodial parent was reduced because she/he had to pay rent.OK?After that the custodial parent remarried and moved out with child/ren/ to the home of her/his new spouse.What are consequences?The custodial parent will have more resources i.e. the income of the custodial parent would increase.As follows by court practice to increase the child support paid by non-custodial parent including his/her new spouseincome/the non-custodial parent has more resources/why it sounds impossible that the child support may be reduced if the custodial parent is re-married?

The second example./Tawny-forgive me but it is the same as the picture which I posted and I know-you like this picture the most... /The man has as his own a house .He got divorced,the court ordered him to leave the house, to pay forty per cent of his income as child support and twenty per cent more as alimony.Ok-he earns $2,000 a month-and NowWhat -he has to pay $1,200 as support/alimony,he has to pay taxes/not all is tax reduced/,he has to rent a room... and all has to be done with $800./There is no question is it fair or not/.After that the woman begins to live with her new lover in the same house.No comment-guess alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GV70

Well,Let me describe a hypothetical situation.The first parent is a primary caretaker.The second one has support duty and has visitation.The custodial parent lived in a rented apartment/house.../When the child support was calculated . The income of the custodial parent was reduced because she/he had to pay rent.OK?After that the custodial parent remarried and moved out with child/ren/ to the home of her/his new spouse.What are consequences?The custodial parent will have more resources i.e. the income of the custodial parent would increase.

I don't know about in any other states but I know here in California your bills do not lower your income for child support calculations. They don't care if I pay $1600/mo or $300/mo in rent or anything else it doesn't lower my income. Only a "special hardship deduction for the expenses of the other minor children living with me" was counted in lowering my income.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GV70

As follows by court practice to increase the child support paid by non-custodial parent including his/her new spouse income/the non-custodial parent has more resources/why it sounds impossible that the child support may be reduced if the custodial parent is re-married?

Again, it isn't court practice to increase the support paid by a non-custodial parent who has remarried here. They don't count the new spouses income for either the NCP or the CP. In California it is court practice to only include mom and dads income in the calculation.