I have a bit of a pet peeve regarding tipping.

I am a little tired of the assumption that you must tip when you eat out. Why do we pay people for doing their jobs? In the past when this subject has come up among friends the typical answer is because the industry works that way or because servers have a low hourly wage and tipping is expected as part of their wages.

The thing is; I work in a minimum wage retail job and while my customer service is very good, I do not get tipped for it. Why are servers any different and why should I have to budget my hard earned wages to allow for tipping. Am I expected to stay home or only go to fast food restaurants because I don't want to tip. Why should I feel pressured to play by ridiculous, long established guidelines.

"Servers" generally don't even make minimum wage.

You don't want to tip? Then don't tip.

I used to work as a waitress, the most detestable, lowest-paid, thankless job I ever had. I now tip very generously.

From what I understand, in the US serving staff don't even make minimum wage.

That's not the case where I live, Canada. Here you cannot pay anyone below minimum wage, and the minimum wage is almost $10/hr. So, wait staff get paid minimum wage no matter what sort of customer service they provide. As a result, if I don't get great service, I don't tip, and I don't feel bad about it, as I worked for minimum wage in retail, provided exceptional customer service, but sadly didn't work in an industry were tips are allowed.

I've had a few friends that worked as servers. One was a friend that also worked with me in Insurance, a long time ago. She made $40,000 a year net working insurance, and actually quit that job to be a waitress full time, because she made more than double the money waiting tables part time than she did working full time in insurance, all because of tips.

So, if you're in the US, I would say that tipping is expected, as these people are working well below minimum wage which you know isn't enough to survive on. But, if you're in Canada, judge based on the service provided.

Yeah, I hate tipping too. These waiters and waitresses don't need any more than the $2.75 per hour that they get waiting tables. In this economy it's possible this is the only job they can come by. I don't feel that it's my responsibility to spend my hard earned dollars that I earn in an airconditioned hospital with all the creature comforts I could ask for, to help these people out who work under horrible conditions with virtually no pay at all. Who cares if they have children to raise? Who cares if they are a displaced professional and are about to lose their home because this is the only job they can get?

While you are at it, not tipping them, why don't you just blame them because your food isn't cooked perfectly to your order. You know, they didn't cook it, the chef's did (and chef's make considerably more an hour than wait staff does), but it is the waiter/waitresses fault, right?

**Sarcasm font disengaged**

So go back to your minimum wage job and realize that some people work a he! Of a lot harder than you do, with a he! Of a lot less pay, and a he! Of a lot of disprespect by people like you.

**Clunk. Off my soapbox.**

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I work in a minimum wage retail job and while my customer service is very good, I do not get tipped for it.

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I have an idea. Why don't you ask your boss to start paying you $2.75 an hour (an average hourly pay for a server) and see if you can live off that without tips!

I mis spoke. The minimum wage for waiters and waitresses is some States is as low as $2.13 an hour.

First, where did you get the assumption that you "must" tip? The idea of tipping in the services industry arises because there is not a viable alternative to gauging good service. It also gives people in the service industry an incentive to "do their job".

In your industry there are other measures so you can be paid regular wages. Tipping is part of the cost of being served. So yes, if you want to eat at a full service restaurant, then you do budget in for tips. If you are unhappy with the service you get, then reflect that in your tip.

Not sure if I have an answer or not but thanks for the input.

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Originally Posted by jordii

Not sure if I have an answer or not but thanks for the input.

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After reading the posts, I think the answer is;

If you can't afford to tip, don't go to a full service restaurant where part of their wage is tips.

Don't want to tip, go to McDonalds, where it's not full service, and tips aren't expected. :)

Not sure that is a viable answer.

What kind of answer would you like?

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Originally Posted by jordii

Not sure that is a viable answer.

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What answer were you looking for?

Tips are a part of a waiter or waitresses wage. Could you live on a little over $3 an hour? If you can, then don't tip. If you can't, think about the service, the amount of work it takes to wait on a table, and tip accordingly.

Do you have to tip? No. No one is forcing you to. But you're paying for a service that they're not being paid for based on wage alone. At least in the US.

Let's put it this way. If you were a waiter making only the base wage, no tips, would you be able to pay for living expenses? Obviously you make enough that you can afford to eat out. Isn't it just common decency to insure that the people that have theses jobs, and work their butts off (waiting tables isn't an easy job) to do these jobs, should at least be able to make enough to afford a roof over their head, and the occasional bowl of ramen?

Tipping is of course not a custom in all countries, There is no tipping at all here in China, they will not even take it. (unless you are in a more tourist area)

But in US, as noted, tips are expected to make up the balance of the waiters money. They are paid less than min wage, often less than 1/2 min wage.

Now I only tip for good service in US,

I am floored that after hearing that minimum wage for servers in the US is way below regular minimum wage (it is set by each state), and tipping is not compulsory, you are still saying that you 'aren't sure you have an answer' or 'not sure it's a viable answer.'

The burden is now on you to provide a rationale.

I don't live in the U.S. I live in Canada so we don't have that set-up here.

Our servers make approx. $8.00+ depending on the province. Service here varies greatly and since I only make approx. $11.00 per hour myself a server here will easily make far more than me even if they work part-time which plenty of them do.

I had no idea that in the States the minimum wage for servers is so low which explains why the service is so much better in that industry. Very noticeable when we vacation there.

What a server gets in tips varies widely anywhere. Some have to pool tips and split them among busboys and dishwashers. Keep in mind too that while you may be in a restaurant during the usual hours customers are eating, there are hours when the servers are cleaning and setting tables, lean hours when few diners are there, and so on.
Let's say at peak times a server waits on 5 tables with about $250 worth of food an hour and gets 15%, or $37. Let's say there are 3 peak hours out of 8, and the other 5 he gets $33 total, for a $70 a day (think how many people are eating at 3 pm if he works 3 to 11) or $8.75/hr. Let's say all 10 servers have to give 5% each split among 5 non-wait staff, so they get 10% each, and now his tip is closer to $8. So on top of his $2.50/hr, he's getting about $8. About what you make or less! They aren't exactly known for vacation time, holidays, and health plans.
I made that up and of course restaurants vary a LOT.
(And I'm still using a US scenario.)

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Originally Posted by jordii

Our servers make approx. $8.00+ depending on the province. Service here varies greatly and since I only make approx. $11.00 per hour myself a server here will easily make far more than me even if they work part-time which plenty of them do.

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I don't think you can say "will" make more, but the potential seems to be there.

But this goes back to what you originally said. Tipping is not required, it's a comment on the quality of service.

But even if a server does wind up making more than you. Clearly, different jobs have different earning rates. Tipping is a standard in service industries and, if you choose to use those services, you need to budget tips in. But you tip to reflect the service you received.

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Originally Posted by jordii

I don't live in the U.S. I live in Canada so we don't have that set-up here.

Our servers make approx. $8.00+ depending on the province. Service here varies greatly and since I only make approx. $11.00 per hour myself a server here will easily make far more than me even if they work part-time which plenty of them do.

I had no idea that in the States the minimum wage for servers is so low which explains why the service is so much better in that industry. Very noticeable when we vacation there.

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I mentioned in my first post, very early on in this thread, that I'm from Canada, and what the minimum wage is here, and that servers in Canada receive at least minimum wage.

Why didn't you mention then, that you're also from Canada? You never mentioned it once. That would have been valuable information to have, especially since I mentioned it early on. You could have said "I'm in Canada too", especially when the wage for servers in the US was mentioned ad nauseum. Instead you decided to be snide in your comments, stating that you didn't think you had a viable answer.

I'm really not believing that you're in Canada. You mentioned that the minimum wage where you live is $8/hr. I can't find a single province where the minimum wage is that low. The lowest I found is in Alberta and the minimum wage there is $9.75/hr.

OMG woman; why are you so combative in every post you do.

Read my post; it says that the approx minimum wage for servers where I live is $8.00; not the general minimum wage. This is the second time you haven't read something I have posted correctly and then commented incorrectly.

I do live in Canada but I sure hope it isn't in the same province or even time zone as you!

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Originally Posted by jordii

OMG woman; why are you so combative in every post you do.

Read my post; it says that the approx minimum wage for servers where I live is $8.00; not the general minimum wage. This is the second time you haven't read something I have posted correctly and then commented incorrectly.

I do live in Canada but I sure hope it isn't in the same province or even time zone as you!

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Servers in Canada receive the minimum wage of that province, nothing less, and there's no province where the minimum wage is $8.

I read what you wrote, and what you wrote isn't right, that's why I commented.

I'm not being combative at all, I'm simply stating the facts, and the facts are, no one, not even servers, work for less than minimum wage in Canada.

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Originally Posted by Alty

Servers in Canada receive the minimum wage of that province, nothing less, and there's no province where the minimum wage is $8.

I read what you wrote, and what you wrote isn't right, that's why I commented.

I'm not being combative at all, I'm simply stating the facts, and the facts are, no one, not even servers, work for less than minimum wage in Canada.

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Fine, right, whatever.

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Originally Posted by jordii

Fine, right, whatever.

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Look, bottom line is, tip or don't tip, it's up to you.

You were given an answer to this a long time ago, and didn't want to accept it. In fact, you posted that it wasn't a viable answer.

So, here's a new answer.

Learn to cook and eat at home if you don't want to follow etiquette and tip accordingly when going out for a meal.

It's really not brain surgery. :(

As the owner of a service business and a gentleman of the old school, let me offer a somewhat different perspective. I worked for many companies before going out on my own, including some sit-down restaurants. Tips and gratuities are never required (those businesses that add the tip into the bill are trying to make an additional profit from the processing charges) and should be offered only for acceptable service.

Etiquette requires only that if a gratuity is offered, it should be in the range of 10-15% of the total bill. Restauranteurs that depend on tips to pay their employees (yes there are too many) also depend on applicants that are too lazy or too cowardly to fend for themselves. "The only job they can get" is a myth. Anyone with any gumption (old school, remember?) at all can make a living on the internet or crafting or providing services in their neighborhoods.

Nonetheless, there are those that prefer to work harder. If their service is acceptable, a gratuity should be provided comparable to the quality of their service. Do examine the bill and determine if the "tip" category matches your expectations.

Thank you.

Personally... the cheap SOB's that feel they have the right to stiff the hard working servers when they provide good service... really need to work as a waiter / Waitress sometime. It would be an eye opening experience for them.

They really work their butts off and unless they give BAD service should be tipped. And at least in the USA... most of their income is in tips.

Look at it this way... if a customer screws you... you WILL remember them... trust me.. you will.. just as you will remember a good tipper who you will go the extra mile for next time. and would you trust someone you have screwed before, maybe more than once with your food. Odds are they won't do anything... but then... how can you really know for sure?

See... I worked as a waiter for a while in college... I know what its like to do that job.