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I can understand if you are an Eastern United States resident that it sounds old to you. I'm in Texas and a large amount of the population says Yes Sir and Yes Ma'am as regular part of life. I'm so habitual with it I even say to my dog, "NO MA'AM!" She stops. It's a sign of respect. Nobody is calling you old. That's when they help you out of cars and hold doors for you...Quote:
Originally Posted by razia210
Good point! I am from the South and we addressed any adult with Mrs. or Ms. or Mr. before their first name. Now, I live in California, and they don't do that. So when I visit my hometown and call my friends parents by their first name, they kind of have a shocked expression. I need to start doing that again. Thanks for the reminder!Quote:
Originally Posted by Homegirl 50
I don't know about the rest but I personally prefer calling people by their names and yes I do hate it when people say mam to girls or ladies.. I think its kind of under estimating your own position when you call out that word to someone! Don't know why but it seems so to me! :-)
In the uk it's purely a sign of respect.
WE could do with a bit more of it over here right now, especially from the youngsters.
Ma'am is southern drawl from feeling lazy with talking in the hot weather. I do prefer madame or madamoiselle because the south has so much French culture. So if you're going to be well-mannered, shouldn't you go all out on effort and stick with the original instead of being lazy?
This is not France.
I would rather be called ma'am than madame. Madame puts me in mind of a brothel.
I have no problem with the word.
Wow, That is a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by xaiegen
Growing up in the south - never heard of it coming from a place of laziness.
"During the migration south and west, the settlers encountered the French immigrants of New France (from which Kentucky, Arkansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Mississippi and western Tennessee originated), and the French accent itself fused into the British and Irish accents. The modern Southern dialects were born." - Southern American English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not sure why you associate a perfectly classy word with a brothel?
As for laziness from hot weather, it's a joke brought up by some of my southern black friends, as in, "it's too hot to talk right, so i talk short."
Because ladies who run brothels are called madamsQuote:
Originally Posted by xaiegen
You do understand it's pronounced totally different? Look back to my post (#85) and yours (#86), we both used madame not madam.
Madam - [mad-uhm]
3. the woman in charge of a house of prostitution.
Madame - [muh-dam]
1. a French title of respect equivalent to “Mrs.”, used alone or prefixed to a woman's married name or title: Madame Curie.
2. (in English) a title of respect used in speaking to or of an older woman, esp. one of distinction, who is not of American or British origin. Abbreviation: Mme.
Info's on dictionary.com
You're right, but I still prefer ma'am to madame. It sounds so stuffy.
I guess I'm American through and through
I have pure European heritage: French, Irish, and British. I am from Louisiana. It's not about being lazy. It is a word in Webster's Dictonary. How can we be considered lazy if it is actually a word?Quote:
Originally Posted by xaiegen
If ma'am is just a term of respect and has nothing to do with judging a woman's age, then why is it that young women and older women bristle at being called ma'am? Wrap your mind around that one.
I just want to hear all your theories about this. Yes, many individuals do use ma'am without respect to a woman's age and with total respect. But many people reflexively look at a woman and think, hmn. She's middle aged, she's a ma'am. Or she has a wedding ring, or looks old enough that she should be married, she's a ma'am. Then they encounter a younger woman and think, hmn. Under thirty, she's a miss. Or no wedding ring, she's a miss.
These categories come from a sexist tradition where women were property and distinguished as belonging to a man or not yet belonging to a man. When women were thought of as old maids if they didn't have a Mrs. in front of their name before a certain age. So, in this historic context ma'am is sexist. It has become ageist as well in it's use.
This is totally separate from individuals who are using the term with the best of intentions.
I am not talking about these people. I am not talking about what my issues may or may not be about my age. I'm talking about what was once or even should simply be a term used with respect, that has morphed into something more. Just like Madame, the word that ma'am is a contraction of, somehow came to mean a woman who runs a brothel.
The term Ms. which is not difficult to say (if it is for you, may I suggest speech therapy?) is a polite term used for women in business correpondence when one cannot see the woman in question to judge either age or marital status.
My children were taught to say yes ma'am, yes sir, etc. They don't use it all the time but they will say " yes please," or "no thank you." NEVER answer a question with "yeah". I'm a native southerner but when I lived in Pa. my friends thought my son was SO respectful to me and them by the way he answered or addressed us.
I don't hate it when someone calls me ma'am nor do I consider it an insult.
I detest being called sugar or honey, I'd rather be called Ma'am any day. It is just a term of respect when they do not know your name.Quote:
Originally Posted by kp2171
Holy crap. Are you people kidding me? It is WIDELY understood that ma'am is used to indicate a woman who looks like she's middle-aged and/or on the "wrong side" of thirty. Yes, I know that it was meant to be and is used by well-meaning folk as a term of respect for a woman. But we also know that 9 times out of 10 if a woman of 23 years of age is out with her mom, at a restaurant or whererever, that mom is going to be ma'am and daughter is going to be called miss. Even though, historically miss is an honorific for girls the male equivalent of which is master.
So I in fact know my history. What I am talking about is common usage nowadays. I can accept that people are going to call me ma'am and most of the time I think it is respectful but part of that respectfulness is prefaced on how old I happen to look to them. You will not find that young adult people of 21 and over call their age mates ma'am and sir. And that's because ma'am and sir to them are "old" people typically 30 and over. This is just common effing knowledge. That's why in the popular culture you have women bristling at being called ma'am. Everybody knows, even though it's not written down anywhere, that it's short hand for being past one's prime.
That's why women who are called ma'am FEEL old. Don't you get it? So do they have a problem with their age or is it really society that has a problem with their age?
Holy crap. Are you people kidding me? It is WIDELY understood that ma'am is used to indicate a woman who looks like she's middle-aged and/or on the "wrong side" of thirty. Yes, I know that it was meant to be and is used by well-meaning folk as a term of respect for a woman. But we also know that 9 times out of 10 if a woman of 23 years of age is out with her mom, at a restaurant or whererever, that mom is going to be ma'am and daughter is going to be called miss. Even though, historically miss is an honorific for girls the male equivalent of which is master.
So I in fact know my history. What I am talking about is common usage nowadays. I can accept that people are going to call me ma'am and most of the time I think it is respectful but part of that respectfulness is prefaced on how old I happen to look to them. You will not find that young adult people of 21 and over call their age mates ma'am and sir. And that's because ma'am and sir to them are "old" people typically 30 and over. This is just common effing knowledge. That's why in the popular culture you have women bristling at being called ma'am. Everybody knows, even though it's not written down anywhere, that it's short hand for being past one's prime.
That's why women who are called ma'am FEEL old. Don't you get it? So do they have a problem with their age or is it really society that has a problem with their age?
Holy crap. Are you people kidding me? It is WIDELY understood that ma'am is used to indicate a woman who looks like she's middle-aged and/or on the "wrong side" of thirty. Yes, I know that it was meant to be and is used by well-meaning folk as a term of respect for a woman. But we also know that 9 times out of 10 if a woman of 23 years of age is out with her mom, at a restaurant or whererever, that mom is going to be ma'am and daughter is going to be called miss. Even though, historically miss is an honorific for girls the male equivalent of which is master.
So I in fact know my history. What I am talking about is common usage nowadays. I can accept that people are going to call me ma'am and most of the time I think it is respectful but part of that respectfulness is prefaced on how old I happen to look to them. You will not find that young adult people of 21 and over call their age mates ma'am and sir. And that's because ma'am and sir to them are "old" people typically 30 and over. This is just common effing knowledge. That's why in the popular culture you have women bristling at being called ma'am. Everybody knows, even though it's not written down anywhere, that it's short hand for being past one's prime.
That's why women who are called ma'am FEEL old. Don't you get it? So do they have a problem with their age or is it really society that has a problem with their age?
Holy crap. Are you people kidding me? It is WIDELY understood that ma'am is used to indicate a woman who looks like she's middle-aged and/or on the "wrong side" of thirty. Yes, I know that it was meant to be and is used by well-meaning folk as a term of respect for a woman. But we also know that 9 times out of 10 if a woman of 23 years of age is out with her mom, at a restaurant or whererever, that mom is going to be ma'am and daughter is going to be called miss. Even though, historically miss is an honorific for girls the male equivalent of which is master.
So I in fact know my history. What I am talking about is common usage nowadays. I can accept that people are going to call me ma'am and most of the time I think it is respectful but part of that respectfulness is prefaced on how old I happen to look to them. You will not find that young adult people of 21 and over call their age mates ma'am and sir. And that's because ma'am and sir to them are "old" people typically 30 and over. This is just common effing knowledge. That's why in the popular culture you have women bristling at being called ma'am. Everybody knows, even though it's not written down anywhere, that it's short hand for being past one's prime.
That's why women who are called ma'am FEEL old. Don't you get it? So do they have a problem with their age or is it really society that has a problem with their age?
In proper society, "Miss" is an honorific for female children. "Ma'am" is the honorific for female adults, as is the French derivative "Madame."
If you wish to be a girl, insist on "Miss."
If you consider yourself a woman, "Ma'am."
If you wish to be alone, insist on "Miz."
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