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Originally Posted by Heart27

Yes. That was my main thing while looking at colleges, a creative writing program. But I'm not sure if it's a degree worth earning for what it'll cost.

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Like I said earlier, you write well. My younger son earned a B.A. in English-Creative Writing (and was given yearly grants and scholarships based on the writing portfolio he presented). Be sure to fill out and send in the FAFSA each spring, be careful which courses you take, and be sure to connect with professors, some of whom are published authors.

That's not bad advice. Maybe I will. I've also considered taking well-rated online courses that allow me to do classes around my work schedule.

I don't think my writing skills can be accurately rated from correspondences, though. Yeah, it proves some level of writing skill that will be necessary. But that doesn't mean I can write multi-dimensional characters readers will empathize with, create tension, paint settings in the reader's mind, build interesting dynamics between characters, or come up with a compelling plot. I just... I have trouble accepting the word of my best friends as accurate to the true quality of my work. And after all, I'm in the beginning of the novel. Little of the things listed above have begun coming into play yet. But I hesitate to share any of it with people I'm not close to, because plagiarism or whatnot. I don't know. Maybe I'll ask one of my English teachers (they're both awesome) to critique it as I go.

Anyone who spells "plagiarism" correctly is okay in my book. :-)

I'm in an online writers group that meets Wednesday and Sunday evenings. I'll give you site information if you're interested in checking us out. And your area may have a writers group at the library or school -- or start one. Your teachers will be glad to help with that.

Heart27, I was a lot like you 55 years ago. It was just my mother who belittled me constantly. My dad was very sweet, but very quiet, and at the time I was angry at him too, for not sticking up for me or my siblings. I stayed in my room as much as I could, reading. No internet, no computers, not even more than 1 landline phone in those days.

I would stay home until you finish high school.
I would go to some sort of secondary education (even though I dropped out of 3 colleges and completed only 1 semester).
It is my gut feeling that a job in a supermarket will not lend itself very well to writing a novel. I didn't go home, but it was the 1960s, and wandering the country with no money and an occasional job was far easier than it is today.
It is my conclusion from 2 friends who have published (self published these days - YOU pay THEM) books, good, well written books, that you not only won't make money, you will lose money. At first anyway; who knows?
Sure, one in a million rises to the top, like J K Rowling, or even the few who win a book award and get reasonable sales, but when you see how many writers there are hoping for the same fame, you will have a Plan B, somehow without losing your passion.
As for fears, just put your name and the word copyright and the date on every draft, and keep digital as well as paper versions of every draft. That's your copyright.
If you hold back from letting others critique, you will miss a lot of help.

Glad to hear you have dreams and aspirations and easy to see where the conflict with your parents is and it's a very common one for those your age. You just have a different view of what YOU want than they have for you. It's really an age old theme.

Now for the practical, the Plan B. While you chase your dreams, you got to eat. Living is not free, no matter where it is, and to be frank getting caught up in the practical reality of life opens you up to stuff you cannot control, which is about anything that can happen, and usually does, and few are prepared as they wish they were unless they are rich or have rich parents. Be fully aware, and you sound like you are, once you leave the protect of your parents you fend for yourself. Also be aware that leaving home doesn't mean you will never go back, that's just reality nowadays, since many before you have, and many more will in the future.

I think your parents are pushing you to get a degree in something that has a future, and a living, and that's probably like any parent would do. Maybe their methods are crappy, but the motivation is the same, the best for you in the LONG run. Doesn't ease your restless, dreamy soul right now does it? Personally I like the thoughtful plan you have made for yourself, but I suggest to all young people like you not quite ready to leave high school yet, that they put in the time NOW, while they have parental support and no obligations, to balance their dreams with reality, and have just as ambitious a Plan B as you have a Plan A.

Take it from a starving artist that's still trying to make it big after 50 years, you will be very glad your Plan B was good enough to sustain you through the many challenges on your journey through life. You will also be glad you were patient and respectful of your elders as you do your own thing even if you don't take their every suggestion (Okay hardly anything they have suggested).

No you cannot control THEM, but you can darn sure learn to control your own thoughts, words, AND actions. Be patient with yourself because you are no more perfect than your parents are.

LOL, the military is a great place to mature and learn as you get your head together! As honorable and honest as anything else you can do.

As far as self publishing goes, yes, vanity presses will charge you to publish your book. My nieces lost over $6,000 doing that. But Smashwords and Amazon both offer low- or no-cost publishing of e-books with a nominal cost for paperbacks. The hard work and expense comes with marketing your book(s), a nearly full-time job.

That's the sort of thing we talk about at the online writers group I go to. We have how-to topic sessions, visits from authors who have perfected the marketing aspect and offer realistic suggestions, and the chats usually involve about 10 to maybe 25 regulars who are respectful of each other and eschew the usual chatroom mania.

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I'm in an online writers group that meets Wednesday and Sunday evenings. I'll give you site information if you're interested in checking us out.

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That would be nice.

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You just have a different view of what YOU want than they have for you.

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I think your parents are pushing you to get a degree in something that has a future, and a living, and that's probably like any parent would do.

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No, actually. I don't know where you got that from. They know what I want to do. They've suggested having a backup plan, but that's about it. This isn't the ever so cliché situation of parents with good intentions pushing their child to achieve a certain future. They're not against what I want to do with my life. They're just really good at making me feel worthless. The things they say to me and how they act has nothing to do with my future. It's them be narcissistic or me being a bad person. I can't tell which anymore.

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As far as self publishing goes, yes, vanity presses will charge you to publish your book.

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No, not really. Self-publishing is incredibly risky and likely to end badly without having a fan base already established by other means. Traditional publishing isn't very profitable, but it's still my best bet. It sucks, but reality has a tendency to. In the words of Daniel Handler, "But the sad truth is that the truth is sad, and that what you want does not matter."

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This isn't the ever so cliché situation of parents with good intentions pushing their child to achieve a certain future. They're not against what I want to do with my life. They're just really good at making me feel worthless. The things they say to me and how they act has nothing to do with my future. It's them be narcissistic or me being a bad person. I can't tell which anymore.

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Neither can I so maybe you tell us why you even think its because you are a bad person. Then we can eliminate the possibility of TOUGH LOVE. You did reference that you were unsure if they liked each other so do they argue and fight between them a lot, if so over what, or be under other pressures from the job, finances, or family issues?

.. and the sad truth is that a traditional publisher isn't going to read your book.
But you have it all figured out, and there's always some miracle story about a new book, so good luck!

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Originally Posted by joypulv

.. and the sad truth is that a traditional publisher isn't going to read your book.
But you have it all figured out, and there's always some miracle story about a new book, so good luck!

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Her best bet might be to shop around for and find an agent. Like I said earlier, the marketing is the really hard part of it all. It sounds like she "gets" that part of the entire enterprise.

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.. and the sad truth is that a traditional publisher isn't going to read your book.

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I know. I get that. I get that the thing most important to me is likely never going to happen. You seem intent on crushing optimism that I don't have.

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Neither can I so maybe you tell us why you even think its because you are a bad person. Then we can eliminate the possibility of TOUGH LOVE. You did reference that you were unsure if they liked each other so do they argue and fight between them a lot, if so over what, or be under other pressures from the job, finances, or family issues?

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It's not like it's blowout fighting or anything. It's just these frequent, petty little fights over the stupidest things. They sound like little kids. Sometimes it justified. Sometimes they'll do the same petty things to each other that they do to me, snapping at each other over nothing, or pushing them, pushing, pushing over whatever it is until the other person, snaps, then getting mad at them for it. Again, they're like kids. Why I think it's because I'm a bad person? Because... It has to be, right? Because it seems to be the general consensus that because I'm sixteen, nothing I feel is real or valid. It can't be my parents, it has to be me. Because I'm sixteen, it has to be that I'm just ungrateful, whiny, oversensitive, a brat. That has a tendency to be the attitude. Because that's the idea my parents have placed upon me--that I get upset too easily and I have a bad attitude and it's all my fault. Everything is my fault. Because I can't talk about it without being unsure of whether I sound like every other kid my age who says they hate their parents. Because I don't know if I really am like every other kid my age who says they hate their parents, thinking I'm oh so unique and my situation is different when it's not. Because I don't know how to trust me because I'm mad to feel like nothing I feel is justified. Because I'm lazy. Because I somehow manage to be unbelievably insecure and incredibly arrogant at the same time. Because I keep tearing myself apart and I don't know how to stop. Because instead of actively trying to not be a piece of crap, I end up not doing anything because I don't know what to do. I have no resolve or motivation. I'm hypocritical and judgmental and just really annoying. I complain too much. I'm too dependent. My mood switches between extreme highs and lows and I can't stop it. Because all I ever want to do most of the time is get out of my own head and stop tearing myself apart, but I don't know how. Because I don't have redeeming qualities to cancel out my emotional baggage. Because I've spent a really long time justifying everything that's wrong with me on this notion that if I and other people could dig around a little deeper, there'd be someone else, someone I can access with sheer willpower, but there's not. There's nothing else. It's just more layers of worthlessness.

If I sound intent on crushing your optimism, you haven't been out in the real world yet. I wasn't intent on anything. I was describing real experiences of all my author friends over my 70 years.

I am more like you than I could possibly have time to say here. Insecure and arrogant sums it up, with many doses of why bother to live. I'm just better at finding ways around it now, and both my parents are long gone.

PS - You do have redeeming qualities. I can see them in your words. But I'm not going to make a list. You can do that.

I went to stay with 2 friends once when I was at my lowest. The woman said to me 'Joy, you are so depressed that you aren't even putting yourself down.' Do I need to explain that?

BTW, back to your original question about abuse - verbal abuse doesn't get minors taken from their parents. Only physical. That doesn't have to mean hitting; it can be something like locking in closets or cellars, or starving, or freezing... I understand all too well how abusive words can be. I'm just stating how it works with social services.

You need a mentor that can empower you in ways your parents cannot. I hope you talk with that favorite teacher, and realize that Wondergirl and Joy have adopted you. :D

Stick around please.

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Stick around please.

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I'm not sure whether you mean 'stick around' as in stick around on the site, or 'stick around' as in not killing myself. Either way it's a yes, even if for different reasons. Mostly needing to do the former in order to do the latter. Already promised my two best friends I wouldn't off myself, and I need someone to go to if I'm going to not run my life into the ground, assuming I haven't already. I guess I'm actively trying not to, seeing as I'm about to stay up too late to do homework and not get enough sleep. Actually, that might be counterproductive to the goal. I'm not sure what the priority should be.

He meant both.