What is the amp rating for a 75' run of 10-3 romex wire?
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What is the amp rating for a 75' run of 10-3 romex wire?
Ampacity of 90C 10AWG copper conductors is 40 amps.
Ampacity is not affected by the length of cable.
If on the other hand you are concerned about voltage drop, then the voltage will be reduced by ~7.5 volts over 75 feet.
This is a voltage drop of about 6.2% if using 120volts or 3.1% if using 240volts.
240.4(D) says other wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattan42
Also, there is not a circuit out there than can be figured at 90 deg C. You need to take into account all the items in a circuit, and very little is rated for 90 deg other than the wire.
The quick answer is 30A. The long answer needs a lot more info.
May I ask what you are basing this on?Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattan42
Voltage drop is directly proportionate to amperage. If you are using 40A then all these numbers are meaningless.
No.Quote:
240.4(D) says other wise.
Ampacity of 90C 10AWG copper conductors is 40 amps... not 30 amps according to Table 310.16.
The maximum overcurrent protection of 10 AWG cannot exceed 30amps according to 240.4.
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As far as the voltage drop calcs go, you are correct, and I should have used 30 amps not 40 amps in the math...
BUT...
Using 30 amps, the voltage drop is 5.59 volts or a 4.6% drop on a 120v circuit or a 2.3% drop on a 240v circuit... and nonetheless reflects the same reality that the drop exceeds recommended voltage drop of 3% maximum for branch circuits but is less than the recommended maximum feeder voltage drop of 5% regardless...
Manhattan,
You missed the point. In order to use the 90c you must have all connection points rated at 90c.
To the best of my knowledge, most residential equipment is listed for 60c or 75c or 60/75.
If I am incorrect, please point me to the code cite that says I can connect and use a 90c conductor to a 60/75c device and use it at the 90c listed amperage.
Manhattan... exactly... we know nothing about what this poster wants to do. Yet you go on and on about your "knowledge" that doesn't answer or solve anything. The poster asked a question, albeit one that can't be answered as stated, but you go on and on and hijack the post with your paraintellect. Put me in the category with donf and stanfortyman... you are missing the point of both the original post, and the purpose of this forum. It's about helping people, not spouting off about your "knowledge"
But this is a DIY board. You know what the guy was asking. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattan42
On the contrary. Look at the heading of this very forum:Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattan42
Home > Home & Garden > Electrical & Lighting > what is the amp rating for a 75' run of 10-3 romex wire
If this question is about a commercial setting it does not belong here.
Also, what does the ampacity of a conductor or it's overcurrent rating have to do with residential or otherwise??
So in your quest to prove to us that you are not wrong you can very well be giving erroneous, even dangerous, advice. Is that what you want?
I for one am bowing out until the OP comes back with a few more details other than the painfully vague question: "What is the amp rating of #10 wire?"
Manhattan,
For what it is worth, I was not jumping on your answer. It did not make sense to me because of my understanding of howthe conductors are selected from each of the temp. columns.
I know I read somewhere, I suspect that it was in a Residential wiring textbook that hiding at the moment, that although NM-B cable is made up of two 90c wires does not mean you can automatically use the 90c column.
I don't want to squabble with you. However, I do know that if we do not know the temperature of the connection device, we must use the 60c column.
I believe that it also stated that only the sheath is marked at 90c, not the conductors themselves.
I'll be straight up with you, I believe you to be incorrect and I'll see if I can find the documentation to support my position or apologize to you if I am incorrect.
Interesting discussion, however, most of it irrelevant regarding Romex cable.
The length of the circuit, as related to ampacity, is irrelevant. The maximum ampacity #10 copper wire in a Romex cable, no matter whether one foot or 1000 feet, is 30 amps.
The implied question is if #10 Romex can deliver 30 amps 75 feet.
The key word in the original question is "Romex", which is technically NM cable.
Whether this is residential or otherwise, is irrelevant.
This wiring method is covered by Article 334 of the National Electric Code. This is the first article to be reviewed, not ampacity and temperature tables.
Copied from the NFPA 70 NEC 2008 Edition:
Section 334.80 Ampacity. The ampacity of Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable shall be determined in accordance with 310.15.
The ampacity shall be in accordance with the 60°C (140°F) conductor temperature rating.
Therefore, a #10 copper wire that is part of a NM cable shall be rated according to the 60°C column of Table 310.16, at no more than 30 amps.
This is whether the installation in residential or commercial. I do not see how that made a difference in the beginning of the thread.
NM cable, both sheathing AND conductors, are rated 90°C, and is only for the purpose of the location of the cable and wiring. Has nothing to do with terminal temperature, since Romex already has the limitation of 60°C.
So, kverrett, to start with, the maximum ampacity and overcurrent protection of #10-3 Romex is 30 amps.
Next, to the implied question, is #10 wire sufficient to carry 30 amps 75 feet.
Here we need to assume the voltage is 120/240 volts, with the greater load at 240 volts. For worst case calculation purposes, we will assume 30 amps at 240 volts.
The basic voltage drop formula recommended by IEEE is:
Vd=2 x R x L x I divided by 1000
where:
Vd = Voltage drop
2 = Number of conductors in circuit
R = DC Resistance of conductor per 1000 foot from NEC® Chapter 9 Table 8
L = Distance
I = Current in amperes (A)
Since we know Romex cable, we will assume solid copper wire, R=1.21 Ohms per 1000 feet.
Vd= 2 x 1.21 x 75 feet x 30 amps / 1000 = 5.445 volts dropped.
Next, assuming this is a branch circuit, and not a feeder, the recommended maximum voltage drop is 3%.
Assuming 240 volts and a 3% max Vd, the maximum voltage dropped allowed is the 7.2 volts, so the 5.445 volts dropped is below 3%.
Your #10-3 Romex cable will be fine to carry 30 amps 75 feet.
Tk:
Worst case is 30A/120 V not 30 A/240 V as you stated is it not, in respect to Vd in %?
Kiss, my worst case is based on my statement "with the greater load at 240 volts".
Since the cable in question is 3 wire, assumption is 240 volts is needed.
Manhattan, it is you that provided the wrong answer, that #10 copper wire in Romex can carry 40 amps.
While Romex sheathing and conductor insulation may be rated 90C rating, it is not THHN, or any other insulation type, and does not fall under the 90°C column of Table 310.16.
The assembly of Romex cable is rated 90°C strictly for the purpose of location of the cable, not terminations.
The temperature columns of Table 310.16 are for locations and terminals, as per this cited by Section 310.158:
FPN: Table 310.16 through Table 310.19 are application tables for use in determining conductor sizes on loads calculated in accordance with Article 220. Allowable ampacities result from consideration of one or more of the following:
(1) Temperature compatibility with connected equipment, especially the connection points.
No #10 wire is allowed to carry more than 30 amps, as per Section 240.4(D).
Section 334.80 reinforces that rule.
Odd that you provide the most incorrect answer, and then you attack advice by others as untruths.
Are you sure Stan? Your postings always seem to have 50 years of experience behind them.Quote:
Especially since I am not even 50 yet
HK,
Kind of like poking a stick in the tigers cage...Quote:
Originally Posted by hkstroud
I hope it is a long stick.
Manhattan,
You can call me a lot of things but liar is not one of them!
Why did you guys not report manhattan42, I did not realise he was insulting you all like that.
I have warned him and banned him for three days
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